I understand why euros dislike him but when they say Hillary or Sanders would be better? I dont understand that, its completely insane, Hillary is also a much more disgusting and treacherous personality than trump by far as well, but I doubt the euro media allows them to see this or any criticism of our left (which of course is only bad because it isnt far left enough)
>>53283015 Yes I admire Hillary's foreign policy especially in Benghazi, Libya and Bernie's mass socialist reform is exactly what our debt ridden economy needs such considerable advantages they have over Trump
>Trump wins the Republican primaries >Trump actually wins the Presidential election >Trump is unironically President
>4 years later
>He didn't make America great again >tfw the Democrats utterly destroy the Republicans in a landslide election after he has a disastrous first term >tfw the right is effectively dead in America for decades to come
>>53283414 >what will you do if this happens burgers? the right needs to change some of its policies already the reason trump is so high is because he is not completely retarded when it comes to taxes and bankers like the other republican candidates the other candidates are bought out by the rich and the bankers (including hillary) so they say stupid shit like "it will trickle down" and "tax breaks for the rich help upstart the economy" his main support is from democrats anyway, they like his economics and are fed up with the pc stuff that has spawned in their own party.
>>53283918 His policies are near socialist and he considers himself one, but I dont care what he calls himself or how left his policies actually are according to semantic games his economic policies scare the hell out of me and the fact that so many young american support him tells me that we have much to worry about in the upcoming future
>>53284010 Yes he was a fantastic president! He did what was economically viable at the time, are you really about to tell me that the policies he implemented for post war boom America are the same that we should implement for debt ridden post stock market crash america?
>>53284202 There is no near socialism, he's far left but is going to keep capitalism up and running, wxcept for the big banking system which caused the 2008 crisis. I truly doubt much is going to change for your average joe. America is very rich and you can afford to implement single payer health care, and not even have to spen much more than oyu pay under the very inefficient obamacare.
Why do you think a progressive tax system would not be economically viable today? The top of the americans have amounts of money most of us wouldn't ever dream of. More than entire countries.
>>53284593 >keep capitalism up and running, wxcept for the big banking system which caused the 2008 crisis.I truly doubt much is going to change for your average joe. You really have no idea what your talking about... with people like you its no surprise Dilma is still running Brazil into the ground. You can keep your "doubt" in Brazil.
I live here and my well being isnt a game to me for Bernie to mess with. I pay for my own healthcare and I am never going to support I candidate who forces me to pay for someone elses so I wait for ever to be seen while some lowlife tries to steal benefits or skip out of work. I'm not going to be taxed to oblivion so Bernie can throw money at whatever deluded wasteful programs he wants. We need smart spending not more spending that put us into debt and I need my own money that I work for, not the governments handouts. But go ahead and tax our largest wealthiest companies as well and see if they wont relocate somewhere else or if they will remain as profitable and not decide to lay massive amounts of people off.
People here act like this is all a game, its bizarre, I understand and its funny when its all memes but when you try to be serious it comes off as delusional
>>53285336 I didn't vote for her. She had no political backgroung, ran a shop into the ground and wants to tax economic transactions. She has no idea what the fuck she's doing, she is just a puppet of our previous president. Don't compare our failed state's politicians to your own system. Sanders has been on politics for longer than our current constitution, has an 80% approval rate as a Senator. His tax plan involves wealth distribuition primarely, which is what americans need.
Now I get you would not like the idea of taxing the mega rich (you are just in line to become one yourself, right), but to vote for Trump? He's a great businessman and probably doing the campaign thing just because he wants to.If somebody showed me a clip of him five years ago I would think it's satire.
>>53286723 First keep in mind most brazilians are poor and poorly educated, and voting is obligatory. In the late 90's welfare was introduced and grew a lot under Lula, who was her patron in these elections. For those people it's fear (vote for the other guy and you'll be off welfare!!!!). The opposition was weak both times too, they simply cannot motivate people. In 2014 the runner up lost in his home state too.
>>53285939 I like how you saged when you commented so I wouldnt see your post
> His tax plan involves wealth distribuition primarely, which is what americans need. No, God no this is not what our country "needs", we do not need forced "wealth redistribution" or the government playing around with earned wealth, we need a system where people can earn money to sustain themselves on their own, not one where we need to rely more on our incompetent government to waste money on a lower class that avoids working so they can receive benefits. I value liberty, equality is not a byproduct of liberty and should not be forced economically, people should have the liberty to raise up out of the underclass instead of everyone having the equality to be poor and reliant on the government.
>He's a great businessman and probably doing the campaign thing just because he wants >If somebody showed me a clip of him five years ago I would think it's satire. Trump is not my first option but if he becomes the republican candidate he has my vote and full support. I used to despise him because I knew of his past views and opinions and I thought his bid for candidacy was odd. I have since changed my mind
He is egotistical, he is driven and he is will do anything to win. That is exactly what America needs not a feeble clown who cowers at his own rally when challenged by protesters. Trump has the kind of personality where he would make America "great again" as he says not because he really cares but because he wants to prove he can. And that is still a powerful motivation that I will fully support if it works.
>http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ I have seen this, its a well know left wing website, of course its going to demonize the republican candidates as lairs but based on their own subjective opinion of what they have said. Meanwhile Hillary has committed a federal crime and is the democratic front runner.
>>53282378 >jim webb will never be president >former secretary of the navy, Marine corps officer, war hero, senator and best selling author got soundly beaten by Hillary clinton, Bernie "socialist" sanders, and a reality T.V star that has no military or administrative experience what so ever.
Trump acts like he loves america so much and that hes such a patriot why doesn't anyone ask him why he did' serve in Vietnam when other Americans were fighting and dying.
>>53287222 The Navy Cross is presented to James H. Webb, Jr., First Lieutenant, U.S. Marine Corps, for extraordinary heroism while serving as a Platoon Commander with Company D, First Battalion, Fifth Marines, First Marine Division (Reinforced), Fleet Marine Force, in connection with combat operations against the enemy in the Republic of Vietnam. On July 10, 1969, while participating in a company-sized search and destroy operation deep in hostile territory, First Lieutenant Webb's platoon discovered a well-camouflaged bunker complex that appeared to be unoccupied. Deploying his men into defensive positions, First Lieutenant Webb was advancing to the first bunker when three enemy soldiers armed with hand grenades jumped out. Reacting instantly, he grabbed the closest man and, brandishing his .45 caliber pistol at the others, apprehended all three of the soldiers. Accompanied by one of his men, he then approached the second bunker and called for the enemy to surrender. When the hostile soldiers failed to answer him and threw a grenade that detonated dangerously close to him,, he approached a third bunker and was preparing to fire into it when the enemy threw another grenade. Observing the grenade land dangerously close to his companion, First Lieutenant Webb simultaneously fired his weapon at the enemy, pushed the Marine away from the grenade, and shielded him from the explosion with his own body. Although sustaining painful fragmentation wounds from the explosion, he managed to throw a grenade into the aperture and completely destroy the remaining bunker. By his courage, aggressive leadership, and selfless devotion to duty, First Lieutenant Webb upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and of the United States Naval Service. ” In the October 13, 2015 CNN Democratic Debate, when asked, "Which enemy are you most proud of?", Webb stated, "I'd have to say, the enemy soldier that threw the grenade that wounded me, but he’s not around right now to talk to.
>>53286904 I know their foreigners, but realistically it sounds like something that would crash with american values of freedom and ideals and do we really know if all the moralfag normies are okay with that?
>>53285415 Not my freedoms. Foreigners overseas aren't protected by our Constitution. Therefore, we have every right to deny anyone we please.
Domestically, we could in theory never ban Islam, but we can keep more of them from coming in. If they ever chimped out like they did in Germany there would be a lot of dead muslims though, they simply cannot do to us what they do to Europeans because our populace is armed and already do not like Islam.
>>53287646 They increased the minimum wage in seattle and guess what happened? People began to part time because they were starting to come off welfare.
And at the same time the people proposing a higher minimum wage are the same saying that their is not enough jobs for younger unskilled workers, it will only make it harder for these people to receive jobs once it becomes more expensive for the company to pay for workers
Not to mention small businesses will be hurt the worst as they wont be able to sustain paying workers more like larger companies might be able too.
>How is taxing the mega rich going to take your liberty? Taxing the rich on the scale Bernie proposes would be a disaster for the economy. Taxing the average person on the scale Bernie wants would be an infringement on the wealth I earned. When I mention liberty I was stating an ideological value of mine that might fundamentally differ from yours
Like Saudi Arabia right? The biggest funders of terrorism on the planet? Where most of the 9/11 hijackers came from? How about Pakistan, the whos intelligence agencies created the Taliban? the country where bin Laden was sheltered? That country that airlifted al-Qaeda fighters out of Afghanistan? How about our moderate rebels in Syria? Our beloved freedom fighters who we armed to the teeth, who then proceeded to all join ISIS?
>>53287974 >we need a system where people can earn money to sustain themselves on their own. You said that. Explain how you plan on doing that when the wages are low please.
>Taxing the rich on the scale Bernie proposes would be a disaster for the economy He hasn't proposed a tax plan yet. And it has been done on the past, when the american dream was alive and well. http://federal-tax-rates.insidegov.com/d/a/Dwight-D.-Eisenhower
Not by a huge margin. And he hasn't even gotten the nom yet.
Remember JFK/Nixon? Trump is going to clean house at the debates, and if this mess in Europe continues it's going to put Clinton somewhere between a rock and a hard place in her stances on immigration and foreign policy.
I didn't give Trump a chance before but more and more it's looking like he's good a way to pull it off.
>>53288331 >You said that. Explain how you plan on doing that when the wages are low please. Well first off these people can get a real job instead of working at mcdonalds and expecting it to be career. They are paid for what they are working, menial labor, not all jobs are sustainable for a life time, that's why they are paid less, its a starting point
>He hasn't proposed a tax plan yet. And it has been done on the past, when the american dream was alive and well. Am I talking to a wall now? Must we go in circles where I reiterate until you listen?
>I'll leave you at that, gotta go study. Try an economics class while your at it, I will be off as well
The youth want Bernie. If Bernie doesn't get the nom that electorate won't be anything close to galvanized to show out for the polls. Clinton is uninspiring and an establishment hack with a scandal-ridden past.
Trump is winning back the older blue Union Democrat crowd to boot. You underestimate the volatility of American politics.
>>53289040 >first off these people can get a real job instead of working at mcdonalds and expecting it to be career
Easy for any middle class american to say that when they start off with atual resources to help them graduate at a good institution, while broke ass niggas need to go to community college so that maybe, just maybe, their great grandchildren may actually have a shot at making something of themselves.
>>53289780 fuck you bitch, get a pelgrant, go to a tech school, learn a trade. god danm i went to a tech school for free in high school to learn carpentry and can make just fine money. If you don't want to do that than join the army or go work as a field hand.
>>53289780 >let me tell you about your country My dad moved here with a high school education and supported my family handily while living in one of the most expensive cities in the country. You just need to work hard and you can do just fine.
>>53300821 And yet the people who are liked by the party are trailing in the single digits. If they at least supported Cruz I could understand, but as it stands the republicans are just shooting themselves in the foot if they don't pick Trump or Cruz. Dems are shit, but at leat they can get behind their democrat.
Trump: >populist rhetoric to snag disenfranchised, poorly-educated conservatives >appeals and pandering to fear ('build wall') to distract from the fact that he has zero intelligent positions on shit that actually matters >zero diplomatic experience or skills, already shown to alienate allies and potential allies just to strengthen his ''''''''maverick''''''''' image >speeches and debates are completely vacuous, filled with buzzwords and appeals to fear >depends entirely on fringe right-wing vote >proposals he's campaigning on are completely impossible and '''''solutions''''' to complete non-issues >wants the agricultural sector to collapse entirely by deporting mexicans, causing potential famine or extremely high food prices >refuses to work with non-republicans or cooperate with anyone at all >cult of personality makes fringe right-wingers worship him but has alienated centrists and moderate republicans entirely >literally American Berlusconi
You have to be a fucking idiot to support Trump, but he's campaigning in a manner that intentionally aims to attract idiots, so no surprise there. Voting based on 'build wall' or 'ban muslims' is as asinine and politically illiterate as voting based on support for LGBT people. It's a response to a non-issue that only functions as a rhetorical maneuver/appeal to fear.
>>53301187 >cult of personality makes fringe right-wingers worship him but has alienated centrists and moderate republicans entirely He's actually hated by conservative Republicans. He's the most liberal Republican in ages.
>zero diplomatic experience and skills Do you seriously believe this? He IS a businessman. I'm all for him because along with Rand Paul he's the only one who has the guts to say that USA needs to stop being the world police, and that's what right-wingers don't want to hear.
Also why are you expecting him to cooperate with anyone when both Democrats and Republicans want him out. He's funding his own campaign he doesn't need to kiss someone's ass for now. I find that much more reliable than someone like Clinton who preaches about women's rights while Saudi Arabia gives her campaign massive funds.
>>53301340 >He's actually hated by conservative Republicans. He's the most liberal Republican in ages. Did you assume "fringe" meant "conservative"? Neoliberals/libertarians rightfully hate him. The fringe voters are social conservatives who care more about keeping brown people out of the country than any sort of economic, foreign relations, etc. policy. Nobody, NOBODY supports Trump because they like his policies on anything but immigration. In fact, he wouldn't have a fraction of the vote right now if it weren't for his immigration policy. Because, as you said, many of his other policies (the few he's actually stated without empty words) are democrat. He's gunning to attract the hysterical Tea Partiers and /pol/ types.
>Do you seriously believe this? He IS a businessman. Being a businessman has absolutely nothing to do with being a diplomat. He's already demonstrated that he's willing to alienate American allies and potential allies for the sake of appealing to his voting base. Diplomacy requires being able to negotiate in a way that doesn't piss the other party off and being able to withstand blows to your own pride for the benefit of the country. If Trump is already willing to piss off foreign governments for the sake of twitter likes, it really doesn't reflect well on how he will handle diplomacy when the future of the country is at stake.
He ultimately needs to cooperate because that's how the US political system works, by managing to cooperate with the Union. He can't rule on private funding alone, he will need to dialogue, and he has shown that he has 0 (zero) tact to do it properly.
>>53301652 >Nobody, NOBODY supports Trump because they like his policies on anything but immigration. So why do people like this exist? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn00YXkR1jw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuNqNEAIbSA
>>53301407 It's far, far cheaper to pay migrants pennies a day, and there is no technology that can harvest as effectively as humans can.
>>53301424 Do you know anything about the American political system? The president NEEDS to cooperate with congress in order for anything to get done. This includes people from the other side of the political spectrum. If a president can't do this, then the US gets a sitting duck government until somebody swallows their pride.
>>53301630 I know, I'm just tired of the pro-Trump shit given how awful of a prez he would make. Nobody seems to be able to see past the election or his cult of personality and give a shit about how he would be in office.
>>53301662 He's doing good because of that. People who support Trump aren't all stupid they're just happy to see someone who is standing on their own. Sadly this also means that if the republican party decided to actually not give him the nomination the dems will win, which is the worst possible outcome.
>>53301758 You didn't do anything. I do think Americans have the right not to let just anyone in. I wouldn't like it if Russians were flooding to Finland either. Oh wait we're already getting thousands of Iraqis while we're drowning in unemployment ourselves.
>>53301750 >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn00YXkR1jw literally all of this was just people gobbling up his cult of personality. "he can get stuff done!" "he's so truthful!" etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuNqNEAIbSA More empty bullshit. "he wants to build shit" "he's anti immigration" "equality"
>>53301866 >I don't know, that sounds pretty exploitative bro. Oh, it is. I've been in a migrant camp and it was one giant human rights violation. However, the answer isn't to kick out all the immigrants and let the system collapse. The answer is to reform it so that agriculture doesn't depend on illegal migrants, then work on the immigration issue.
>Also if American obesity rates are anything to go by I don't think the resulting increase in food prices will be that bad for America in the long run It would just fuck over the underclass m8. They wouldn't be able to afford produce, causing them to turn to processed crap and fast food even more.
>Not yet, but due in part to the low labour prices caused by illegal immigration America has one of the least mechanised/automated agriculture industries in the developed world Trust me, I'd love to see things change to a more automated (or at least somewhat humane) system. The key is putting policies in place that incentivise this so that there is no longer a dependence on cheap human labor.
>>53301918 Fair enough, I could spend the rest of my life as an immigrant somewhere else, so I guess I don't really give a shit aside from whether or not it affects my family.
>>53302024 Rubio is pretty decent, and Sanders would be okay if his reform were executed very, very, very gradually and he could play nice with conservatives. Otherwise, yeah, the candidates this year are garbage.
>>53302024 Hillary is the worst possible outcome, even Sanders would be better. Trump isn't as bad as people make him out to be, besides immigration he has legitimate concerns. Just so happens that the media can only really go after his immigration policies. Even then they blew the whole muslim thing out of proportion. A ban on immigrants from certain high risk countries until better measures can be taken is not a bad policy.
>>53302031 So their vote for him isn't legit because they just want a president who they think would be the best for AMERICANS? Please do tell who you think would be better choice because apparently Canadians know the best how democracy works.
>>53282378 he might actually turn out to be someones candidate for veep and that ll be really hillarious. after all civilization 1 taught me vicepresidents arent that important (dan quayle). anyways cruz/whomever or cruz/trump will lose to shitlary and i dont want that horrible quasi-huma-hibrid-alien to win. but she will against this opposition.
Besides immigration IS a huge issue and people have a right to be worried about it. Just look at what is happening to Europe right now. Problems with social welfare, language and lack of teachers, cultural clashes, safety, lack of apartments, lack of jobs. As much as I think Sanders is a good guy I think his Nordic social welfare system combined with open borders and very multicultural USA is chaotic. You think people want tighter immigration control just because "they don't like brown people", that's wrong.
/biz/raelite here. If you fall for /pol/'s bullshit you're a fucking retard. Occasionally they come over to my board and start predicting the end of the world, like the shemitah of september, and as of yesterday, and the immediate collapse of Shanghai Composite. It's getting really annoying.
>>53302526 >>53302546 Rand Paul, but his chances of getting elected in this country are abysmal. On the federal level, I like anybody who's a fiscal conservative and is moderate with social issues, and won't tamper with the fed like dems have been doing.
As for local politicians, anybody who supports/subsidizes businesses and doesn't mind doing me favors for a couple hawks tickets or a monetary gift is fine.
>>53302132 >A ban on immigrants from certain high risk countries until better measures can be taken is not a bad policy.
This could not be emphasized more. It's objectively a bad idea to allow traumatized, penniless young men come into your country from a war zone. People who argue otherwise don't have the best interest of their nation in mind. If leaders framed the argument in this manner rather than hinting at a religious test for citizenship/residency, a huge group of people would throw their weight behind it.
Still isn't right. My family is rich-well, wealthy or whatever-and apparently that's now the standard of how liberal you are: more money/more liberal. My father actually said, after attacks in france, no shit, "well why did they have to provoke them? they didn't attack the countries that weren't part of the iraq assaults." swear to christ, one day i'm going to to be the Q to someone's batman, find some asshole lunatic beating up syrians and give him state of the art tech to fuck them up however he can
>>53302839 considering that most americans are even dumber than you and can vote this year and considering that this elections result can have some serious reaction to worlds peace and economy i am quite mad
>>53302159 I honestly don't know either. I guess we'll see when the election rolls around...
>>53302167 No, it's legit, it's just really, really, really stupid. Trump is running the same political campaign that Obama did. He's using empty ~anti-establishment~ rhetoric that resonates with voters that want to see a change but are too stupid to understand that there's nothing being offered. 'make america great again' = 'change 2008'. The only difference is the group of idiots being scammed.
>Please do tell who you think would be better choice Rubio and Bernie if he introduces his a moderate version of his plans very slowly and works with the repubs. And likely Hillary, as terrible as it feels to admit; even if she is an evil cunt, she can at least work with whoever acts in her best interests, which in this case = whoever can help make her a good president.
>because apparently Canadians know the best how democracy works. I'm American m8. And why would a Finn know any better?
>>53303023 >No, it's legit, it's just really, really, really stupid. Trump is running the same political campaign that Obama did. He's using empty ~anti-establishment~ rhetoric that resonates with voters that want to see a change but are too stupid to understand that there's nothing being offered. 'make america great again' = 'change 2008'. The only difference is the group of idiots being scammed.
Is this a meme? That just because you feel strongly about something and have an opinion makes you exactly the same as the opposing group? Every time I here this argument it's always by someone simply looking to seem above the issue and better than everyone else
>>53303023 >Bernie >And why would a Finn know any better? Well I know this very well: Bernie's system won't work in USA. It's only works in small, homogeneous countries that agree the same rules and same language. It definitely doesn't work with open borders, anyone who supports open border state is against social welfare state. The immigration crisis is already breaking the welfare state system in Sweden and us other Nordics because too many different people can't fit in. I seriously can't see Americans suddenly agreeing to society like Finland and if everyone doesn't agree then it won't work.
>>53303123 There's a difference between voting for somebody with different opinions and voting for somebody whose campaign is entirely run on a cult of personality and a proposed '''''''policy'''''''' that is literally impossible and an answer to a non-issue. It's not Trump's platforms, or lack thereof, that make him a stupid candidate to support, it's the fact that he's using the same exact empty campaign strategy that Obama did and people are still eating it up because he's pandering to their fears and vague desire for change.
>>53303294 Maybe because we live in almost socialist country where people are educated yet are not allowed to be successful because people have this mindset that any kind of success hurts the equality of others Waste of potential, can't see USA becoming like that
>>53303140 >Well I know this very well: Bernie's system won't work in USA. It's only works in small, homogeneous countries that agree the same rules and same language
A socialist GOVERNMENT won't work in a heterogenous society. That has absolutely nothing to do with implementing social reforms while still maintaining a free-market economy and personal autonomy. It doesn't require a homogenous society to tax Wall Street profits, nor does it take one to address the astronomical cost of secondary education and its resulting burden on the economy and labor force, nor reforming the medical system so patients aren't charged $28 for a pair of surgical gloves, etc. etc. etc.
The shrinking middle class, massive personal debt, lack of preventative care, poor access to healthcare, and low worker morale are a detriment to the prosperity of the nation. Making some small, basic policy reforms would benefit everyone and the country at large.
>t definitely doesn't work with open borders, anyone who supports open border state is against social welfare state. The US doesn't have open borders (despite the memes it's almost impossible to gain legal residency)
> The immigration crisis is already breaking the welfare state system in Sweden and us other Nordics because too many different people can't fit in. This has nothing to do with America.
>>53283015 >actual experience being politicians Does anyone know what kind of political mastery it takes to run a successful company? If Trump was bad at politics he would have gone out of business, just like any businessman that's shit at playing politics.
In contrast, if a politician is bad at political ins and outs, then it doesn't fucking matter as long as they're good at getting elected. Businessmen live and die by their political skills.
I seriously don't understand how people fail to grasp this, and compartmentalize "politics" into some obscure elite category unlike anything else that takes place in the world, instead of the actual interpersonal, management, and manipulation skills that you use every day of your life to some degree that it really is.
I guess the mystification of the political process is 1 part of the social conditioning that's been pushed out there to disengage people from the reality of politics, considering how often I see this cuck-tier statement.
>>53303467 Why it has nothing to do with America? Americans are so divided. They don't have our mindset that you live in the harmony with the rest of society and can trust people. I'm just giving example what happens when you mix multiculturalism and social welfare state. In my opinion what Americans need right now is a president who can bring them back together. Maybe then think about socialist state.
Empty 'anti-establishment' populist rhetoric, campaigning specifically to attract voters who feel alienated with an impossible and vague promise of 'change', focusing on very small or non-issues while spending very little time campaigning on major issues, offering zero feasible solutions to problems, whether real or otherwise, sweeping voters up in a cult of personality so that the candidate can do no wrong, even if they flipflop and anybody who criticizes them is just afraid of the truth, an establishment drone, a neocon/SJW, etc
In short, Trump and Obama have both campaigned on their personalities alone. Voters don't actually scrutinize their platforms on shit that's actually important because they're too swept up in the rhetoric. Trump voters sound almost identical to '08 Obama voters, just in different political clothing. Complete drones who are too enamored with "someone who can get things done" or "not part of the establishment" or "build wall" to actually put any thought into the current events that are actually having a huge effect on the country and what sorts of concrete policies might work.
>>53303673 >Empty 'anti-establishment' populist rhetoric, campaigning specifically to attract voters who feel alienated with an impossible and vague promise of 'change' So like nearly every other campaign?
>>53303633 It doesn't matter how divided America is so long as there are measures in effect to remove some of the distress on the middle class and improve the overall welfare of the country. If you're talking about political division, neither Trump nor any other president is going to fix that because it is a cultural issue. If you're talking about economic equality, reforms that benefit the middle class are the answer.
>>53303745 No Every candidate uses weasel words and pandering, but very few run entirely on a cult of personality and appeals to fear/change. There's a reason why Berlusconi is so infamous among all of the other shitty Western leaders.
>>53303768 No, I'm very familiar with Trump's policies (or lack thereof) and rhetorical techniques. He's a great politician/rhetorician, but by god are the people who lap it up gullible. You think we'd have learned something after '08. I guess it's different if the cult of personality is speaking to YOUR fears/desires, though.
>What the fuck happened to you canucks? I'm American.
>>53303798 >cult of personality You've got me there, few candidates have such a thing. But, I realized that before and only pointed out the idea of change for a reason. >appeals to fear/change >rarely used Are you for real right now? Saying "I'm better than, and different from, the last guy," is one of the most effective and commonly used campaign tools.
Call me a pessimist, but I think American politics are irreparable. If Donald Chump gets in, the entirety of the political and business world will conspire against him; he's almost universally hated by the establishment. Only what he proposes that can be abused by the super-rich class will carry any weight at all, and it's downright silly that he considers himself on their level. If Hillary C. gets in it will just be business as usual, like under Obama and three decades prior. If Sanders gets in the entirety of the political and business world will conspire against him; he's almost universally hated by the establishment. His platform would mean the super-rich would not be as ridiculously rich, and this ruffles feathers.
I don't see a way out. The American political system is a sand-trap for anyone who actually wants to change anything.
>>53303809 Yes, I do. If you genuinely think immigration reform is an important issue in the US, you need to sit down and actually learn something about your country and what is going on in the world. His other policies are a combination of centrist democrat shit, the standard 'we'll build infrastructure' and isolationist republican platforms, batshit insane diplomatic maneuvering, and vague sweet nothings that sound nice to fringe right-wingers.
>>53303874 >Are you for real right now? Saying "I'm better than, and different from, the last guy," is one of the most effective and commonly used campaign tools. Yes, it is. The difference here is that Trump's campaign is effective EXCLUSIVELY because of his cult of personality. There is a reason why, despite being called out on numerous lies and half-truths, demonstrating that he is a diplomatic trainwreck, proposing some democrat policies, and campaigning largely on policies that are literally and obviously impossible, his voting base still adamantly defends him. If his personality weren't his main appeal, he wouldn't have made it past a month.
>>53303915 There's nothing inherently wrong with that (though his plan to deport all Mexican illegals ASAP would cause the agriculture industry to literally collapse). The problem is that he has very few concrete platforms/plans and the fact that he would make a horrible diplomat, as he has already demonstrated, which could mean catastrophe for the US because foreign relations are very important and very fragile right now, and a single gaffe could be a disaster for both the US and other nations.
>>53303998 There's nothing that particularly outstanding about them either though. They're like houseplants at this point. You just expect them to be there.
>>53303944 >If you genuinely think immigration reform is an important issue in the US, you need to sit down and actually learn something about your country and what is going on in the world.
Oh do tell me about my country and it's place in the world, Canada, and how we owe something, anything, to a single soul outside our borders.
I guess those 94 MILLION Americans who don't have jobs in what was once the land that boasted the best living conditions for it's workers, and are near ready to start a new civil war over it, are just misinformed bigots who don't like darkies, and they should accept that exporting all their traditional jobs and importing millions of slave labor is good for them, because now their food costs 10 cents less and their WalMart brand clothing is a buck off per 10-pack of size 50 elastic waistband jeans.
>>53304130 >The problem is that he has very few concrete platforms/plans and the fact that he would make a horrible diplomat, as he has already demonstrated, which could mean catastrophe for the US because foreign relations are very important and very fragile right now, and a single gaffe could be a disaster for both the US and other nations. So it's bad he doesn't want to play world police and would demand a price for having America go fix up some shithole like usual? I don't see a problem with that.
Well all I can say, there are lot of Swedes, Finns etc. who right now wish they had leaders like Trump. Some even say that if Americans don't want him, he can come here. Because people want strong leader that cares about his own people. When you don't have that people will lose trust. Our leaders right now don't care about how Finns feel. We don't trust them and it ends up making society divided as well.
>>53304130 But you mentioned the idea of change alongside a cult of personality. I don't care about the cult, it's obviously there and I never disagreed with that. However, promising change is nothing new.
>>53304144 >Oh do tell me about my country and it's place in the world, Canada, and how we owe something, anything, to a single soul outside our borders. For the billionth time, I'm American, but whatever.
>I guess those 94 MILLION Americans who don't have jobs in what was once the land that boasted the best living conditions for it's workers, and are near ready to start a new civil war over it, are just misinformed bigots who don't like darkies, and they should accept that exporting all their traditional jobs and importing millions of slave labor is good for them, because now their food costs 10 cents less and their WalMart brand clothing is a buck off per 10-pack of size 50 elastic waistband jeans. What does this have to do with immigration? America has the strictest immigration policy in the world by far unless you count shitholes like North Korea. Immigration is literally a non-issue. If you're talking about illegal immigration, illegal Mexicans are leaving the US at the moment, and most illegals are employed in the agricultural industry making WELL under minimum wage picking produce. Unless Americans are content living in piss-soaked horse stalls without indoor plumbing, hot water, or medical access, then the price of produce would raise astronomically if illegals were deported, or there would be a famine due to shortage of labor. It sounds like you're just being emotional and don't know shit about what's actually happening in the country, otherwise you would be aware of these things. These are objective, easily-accessed facts.
>>53304178 See >>53304300 You're clearly just being emotional and don't know jack shit about your own country. Perhaps you should actually do some basic research instead of chanting "O-Ba-Ma!" I mean "BUILD WALL!"
>>53304224 >Obama was a shitty diplomat so that makes Trump a good one lmao He's already pissed off a good portion of our allies and neighbors and has demonstrated that he can't open a dialogue with people he disagrees with that is remotely civil. Yes, it would be great to tell Saudi Arabia to go fuck itself, but the result would be higher oil prices for Americans and the loss of a Sunni ally in the ME. "Telling it like it is" or w/e he's known for is a disastrous approach to foreign relations.
>At least Trump would command some respect from you street shitting fucks around the world. The cult of personality has struck again... He's a laughing stock and a spectacle m8. The entire world is embarrassed for America for even entertaining him as a candidate.
>>53304358 Yeah, it would be nice to have stricter border controls, but it's such a small issue compared to foreign relations, radicalism, the poor economy, etc. that it's incredible that it's a major focus in someone's campaign and that people are buying it.
>>53304300 >What does this have to do with immigration? You serious m8? Immigration is one of the most devastating things there is towards good wages and steady employment, because there's a huge risk of dirt-poor immigrants coming over and working for less than what natives work for. This has been a constant of the Democrat platform up until the current generation when they abandoned their blue collar base to pander to illiterate niggers and hysterical women.
>illegal Mexicans are leaving the US at the moment Actually, we're seeing a surge at the border now, and they're not all Mexican.
>most illegals are employed in the agricultural industry Wow, it's almost like that's impossible to even pretend to verify because they're fucking illegal and nobody knows how many are even here, much less what they're doing.
In my area, every single basic labor job is taken up by 5'6 brown people who don't speak english and work for cash. I haven't seen a white laborer that didn't work for the state in half a decade.
>The price of yadda yadda would raise Oh no, prices would go up! Who gives a single fucking shit when nobody has any money to spend on this cheap garbage? If we actually paid AMERICANS do be doing a lot of this works, and stopped exporting jobs while importing labor, we wouldn't have a wage crisis with over half the country living paycheck to paycheck. You have no clue how terrible things are out there, and how close people are to losing their shit over their country completely ignoring their needs. There's a reason militia membership is at a level it hasn't been in the last century.
>>53304358 Our overseas immigration is shit too, considering the H-1B visa problem, where we have American workers training their foreign replacements to work as slaves for good white-collar jobs. The companies doing this and the politicians enabling them should be hanged for treason.
>>53304300 >and most illegals are employed in the agricultural industry making WELL under minimum wage picking produce This is not a good thing. They're basically used as slaves so thee's no point in hiring someone who'd do it for humane pay. We also use immigrants as slaves and once they realize that they will never be hired to any better jobs than bus drivers and bathroom cleaners with shit pay no matter how well they're educated, they become frustrated. That's also why the elite wants migrants here, imported cheap labor. No point in hiring someone native for the same job with more humane pay when you can just use slaves. That's the kind of society you want?
>>53304503 >He's already pissed off a good portion of our allies and neighbors Oh no, he's made Mexico upset at the fact that they allow millions of slaves to enter our country with no barriers to even slow them down, or how they have 95% of our illicit drug trade originating from their borders. Oh boo hoo they're upset. Who gives a fuck? People can be as salty as they want, but this is business, and there's no niceties involved when we're being mercilessly screwed on all fronts.
You don't think Cameron wishes he could come out and declare a ban on Muslims from the UK? I guarantee it's his wet dream, but he would never do it because he's a coward and inherited the product of one of the worst immigration policies outside of Germany or Sweden.
Nobody disagrees with or even dislikes Trump, they just have to come out and speak against him because their toilet countries are full to the brim of street shitting Indians and Muslims who will literally murder them in the streets if they ever spoke ill of Islam. They speak only from fear, not conviction or personal values. There's nothing to respect in that, and I could live without the admiration of a bunch of weaklings that are overseeing countries that are nearing their death knell, thank you.
>>53304526 So you're saying that you don't understand or care about the health of the nation aside from keeping out brown people. Thanks for demonstrating the mindset of a typical Trump supporter. So emotional, so fearful, so angry. :^)
>>53304543 >You serious m8? Immigration is one of the most devastating things there is towards good wages and steady employment, because there's a huge risk of dirt-poor immigrants coming over and working for less than what natives work for. This has been a constant of the Democrat platform up until the current generation when they abandoned their blue collar base to pander to illiterate niggers and hysterical women. Cool memes, let's see some hard evidence please because there is literally zero empirical basis to this statement whatsoever. It's just fear. If you actually did some basic research instead of whining about the scary brown people, you'd see that it's almost impossible to get an American visa unless you're well-educated, skilled, relatively wealthy in your cunt, hard-working, and already have a job offer in a field that not many Americans have the skills for. Aside from that there's the lottery, which has been in place for decades and has done nothing to negatively impact the economy.
>Actually, we're seeing a surge at the border now, and they're not all Mexican. Evidence? And yeah, it's never been only Mexicans, but border crossers are almost always poor as shit and end up working in the fields or in under-the-table blue-collar work.
>Wow, it's almost like that's impossible to even pretend to verify because they're fucking illegal and nobody knows how many are even here, much less what they're doing. Or you could look at the research on the issue...
>In my area, every single basic labor job is taken up by 5'6 brown people who don't speak english and work for cash. I haven't seen a white laborer that didn't work for the state in half a decade. Anecdotes =/= reality.
>>53304798 He's a walking contradiction. >I hate big corporations so I'll raise minimum wage! That'll show those meanies! Meanwhile the local deli gets shut down because they can't afford to pay 15 an hour
>So you're saying that you don't understand or care about the health of the nation aside from keeping out brown people. Thanks for demonstrating the mindset of a typical Trump supporter. So emotional, so fearful, so angry.
Our economy is doing great at the moment. Far better than your leftist shithole.
I don't want my country to commit cultural and demographic suicide like your shithole and Cuckmany.
>>53304543 >Oh no, prices would go up! Who gives a single fucking shit when nobody has any money to spend on this cheap garbage? If we actually paid AMERICANS do be doing a lot of this works, and stopped exporting jobs while importing labor, we wouldn't have a wage crisis with over half the country living paycheck to paycheck. You have no clue how terrible things are out there, and how close people are to losing their shit over their country completely ignoring their needs. There's a reason militia membership is at a level it hasn't been in the last century. "Let's deport all of the illegals immediately instead of putting policies in place to phase out migrant labor because muh feels" There's a middle ground between letting illegals stay and getting rid of them immediately, though, and in that middle ground is a way to remove them without destroying the economy and causing a famine.
>This is not a good thing. They're basically used as slaves so thee's no point in hiring someone who'd do it for humane pay. We also use immigrants as slaves and once they realize that they will never be hired to any better jobs than bus drivers and bathroom cleaners with shit pay no matter how well they're educated, they become frustrated. That's also why the elite wants migrants here, imported cheap labor. No point in hiring someone native for the same job with more humane pay when you can just use slaves. That's the kind of society you want? No, I don't want this to continue at all. As I said, I've seen migrant labor camps and they're literally one giant human rights violation. No indoor plumbing, families crammed in piss-soaked horse stalls, no medical care, no way to leave the farm, etc. However, deporting them immediately is detrimental to both the migrants and Americans because it would cause the agricultural industry to collapse. I'm in support of a policy that would slowly phase out the dependence on migrant workers and put Americans or machines in their place.
>>53304798 Big companies aren't the problem, but yes the banks are literally evil and run the entire country.
Sanders could never accomplish a single thing against them though, so while I agree with your sentiment, if you actually want an axe man to go take them down, then Trump is your guy. He hasn't spoken much about the banks, for a very good reason, but what he has said is that he's a hard money guy that would like to go back to the gold standard.
Don't expect to hear him discuss it anytime soon though, because he'll be assassinated if he does, I'm almost positive.
I'm gambling on the chance that he'll surprise us with a heavy takedown of the banks that he's telling nobody about until he knows he can pull it off, anything less will mean his death.
>>53304810 >You're the one that made the initial claim, so the burden of proof is on you, sport. Google 'American immigration process'. Google 'immigration economic impact America'. It's really not that hard...
>>53304833 Health of the nation = slowly and intelligently phasing out dependence on illegals to prevent a fucking famine instead of removing them right away because muh jobs and brown people
>>53304890 >struggling middle class >massive amount of personal debt >massive amount of national debt >few entry-level jobs with living wage >harder to make a living wage for unskilled workers > exploitation of entry-level workers through '''''''unpaid internships''''''' etc
No point in having a decent economy if almost none of the citizens see the benefits and the cunt is still in a pile of foreign debt. nice memes though :^)
>>53304896 Are you actually taking Trump at face value or something, dude?
If he's saying he wants to kick out all the illegals RIGHT AWAY and build a wall, that's just a scare tactic to keep more people from coming in before border security is in place. Every time he discusses the wall he says people will come back LEGALLY, aka he's not doing to kick out absolutely everyone, he just wants to make sure that people don't take advantage of the incoming policies to flood the country before the wall goes up. What's likely to happen is the deportation of criminals and unnecessary people, and the allowance of a large percentage of the rest somehow, that way they're here somewhat legally and can't be abused for their labor anymore.
Think of it this way: when you're looking to make a deal, which Trump based his entire life on doing extremely well, you have to think of the deal-making process as a linear graph going from 1 to 10. So let's say the other party you're negotiating with takes a 1 position, well long before that happened Trump established himself as the strongest guy in the room, one that nobody knows exactly what he's capable of, and he takes the extreme position of 10, while he actually wants maybe a 6. This horrifies the other party, and forces them either to the position he actually wants, or a little more or a little less, so this entire act is just a public display of his negotiating process, and one that he's likely going to carry to general and beyond, leaving him in the absolute strongest position possible to make the best deal he can on these various positions.
What he says may not come true, but because he's Donald Trump, he's able to get closer to it than anyone else on the planet, so if you like the core concept of his positions, then you'll get more from him than you would someone who takes a solid, detailed position on whatever we're talking about. He wrote a book on it, I mean, come on, it's current year, go read it.
>>53304896 And what would happen to those illegals who can't work anymore because no one would hire a guy who can't even speak English if it wasn't so cheap? I think you're taking Trump's propaganda too seriously, obviously all of them wouldn't be imported right away. I don't even believe in the wall, I think it's just a metaphor.
>>53305083 >Are you actually taking Trump at face value or something, dude? lol no, see my posts about his rhetoric/cult of personality
>If he's saying he wants to kick out all the illegals RIGHT AWAY and build a wall, that's just a scare tactic to keep more people from coming in before border security is in place. I'm not responding to Trump's empty rhetoric, I'm responding to the losers in this thread who genuinely believe that Trump will deport illegals immediately and want that to happen.
>Think of it this way: when you're looking to make a deal, which Trump based his entire life on doing extremely well, you have to think of the deal-making process as a linear graph going from 1 to 10. So let's say the other party you're negotiating with takes a 1 position, well long before that happened Trump established himself as the strongest guy in the room, one that nobody knows exactly what he's capable of, and he takes the extreme position of 10, while he actually wants maybe a 6. This horrifies the other party, and forces them either to the position he actually wants, or a little more or a little less, so this entire act is just a public display of his negotiating process, and one that he's likely going to carry to general and beyond, leaving him in the absolute strongest position possible to make the best deal he can on these various positions. I get what you're saying, but diplomatically this is a terrible, terrible approach to negotiation.
>What he says may not come true, but because he's Donald Trump, he's able to get closer to it than anyone else on the planet, so if you like the core concept of his positions, then you'll get more from him than you would someone who takes a solid, detailed position on whatever we're talking about. He wrote a book on it, I mean, come on, it's current year, go read it. You need solid, detailed positions when you're President and actually in charge of making sure a country isn't run into the ground.
Trump is a NATIONALIST. This is a potentially dangerous brand of political ideology that should be carefully contained in the modern era. As the world moves towards more globalization and interconnectivity, we should be looking toward a closer sense of internationalism and global unity not increasing the already petty divisions that exist in human society. Also consider that Trump has a backing by a growing xenophobic and traditionalist movement in rural America (mainly amongst middle-class American whites) and this is a movement that should be crushed completely and utterly before it morphs into something more hideous and vile (as evidenced by Nazi Germany).
>>53305128 >So then it must not be that hard for you to do it, right? I guess I'll have to hold your hand. :^)
re immigration process: http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/how-united-states-immigration-system-works-fact-sheet http://www.ibtimes.com/immigration-reform-how-hard-it-become-us-citizen-play-game-interactive-game-1370721
>>53305187 >I get what you're saying, but diplomatically this is a terrible, terrible approach to negotiation. It's really not, it will put us in the best position to negotiate we've had in decades.
Nobody else really even tries because they have to hire people they owe favors to or who have leverage over them into these jobs, instead of the most qualified people for the positions.
Trump has the benefit of knowing the toppest of the top tier of negotiators in this country, and if you think he won't staff his administrations with people who know how to get shit done better than anyone else on the planet, then you're crazy.
Also, you don't need a solid position on basically anything to be President, because your job is basically decision making and delegation, so his job is to hire people do to almost all of the work for him, with him being the final decider on the overall guidance and important policies.
You're putting too much weight on the office of the Presidency. Most of the work gets done by office drones and staffers, while the prez just keeps things running efficiently and overseeing progress.
>>53305187 I'm not even sure if you hate Trump or his supporters. Because you seem to agree with his actual politics but somehow you're still against him?
Dumb Americans are American citizens as well and Trump knows that so obviously he's going to reach them as well. But you're acting like all Trump supporters are like that when they've actually studied what he has said for example about Syria.
>>53305330 You realize that Trump has already pissed off our closest ally in the ME and one of our most important economic partners, angered one of our neighbors (making them less likely to work with the US to stop their immigration if he becomes prez) and is the laughing stock/spectacle of the world right now, right? Dealing with world leaders, many of which are eccentric/batshit insane, have strong or proud personalities themselves, have a resource or industry that America depends on, or already dislike American hubris, is nothing like making a business deal. It takes nuance, likability (not just among supporters), and the ability to swallow your pride and remain calm and level even if you're being insulted or screwed somehow. Trump has charisma, but he also has a strong personality that makes him incredibly unlikable to a large portion of people. He is also willing to insult politically important people to gain attention or for his pride. He'd be a trainwreck in foreign affairs. He already has zero respect from the foreign community. And no, American presidents have a large role in foreign diplomacy. They are the ones meeting with other world leaders.
>>53305330 To add to this, if you're going to say something like: >But Trump needs to know what he wants specifically and exactly how to get it done!
Well no he doesn't, he just needs to turn to his staffers and say, "Hey I wanna do X Y and Z, go find people to figure out how to do it and what our options are.", and they'll say yes Mr. President, and drag a bunch of paper pushers who specialize in figuring this shit out, because it's their jobs.
Presidents just need good judgement, managerial skills, and the personnel pool from which to draw talented people to delegate to.
That's literally all it takes.
On top of which, Trump has a uniquely powerful skill of emotional manipulation, which is critically undervalued if you think about it, because like it or not, people are governed by emotion, so if you stick him in office for 4-8 years, and all the while he cheers on about how great America is going to be, and how we're gonna win, and how special we are, well, people will believe it, and that brick by brick positive manipulation will have the largest effect of anything, because by raising morale you raise every single other factor with it, as you're boosting the psychological strength of the entire country by empowering each individual at the most basic level. Think of it like a term or 2 of having a motivational speaker boosting the whole country. It's going to have huge effects on the populace, one that no material gains could do otherwise.
Seriously, that's probably going to be one of his success as President, which is just making people believe in themselves and their country again, and if you give Americans a little more confidence then they'll succeed more because their emotional strength is bolstered.
He can save the soul of the country just by making people feel good about themselves, like a tough-talking Mr. Rogers, or your Father.
>>53305623 >pissed off our closest ally in the ME If you're talking about Bibi, he's actually besties with him And Bibi doesn't have good reputation of being good neighbor either, but he's an extreme nationalist, much more than Trump is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm5Je73bYOY
We are the leaders of this world. We run this earth. A ton of foreign leaders disliked Bush and nothing happened. Foreign opinion does not matter much in this day and age. Other countries need America much more than we need them.
Trump already has the acceptance of Putin anyways. An American-Russian alliance would be fucking glorious.
>>53305431 >I'm not even sure if you hate Trump or his supporters. Because you seem to agree with his actual politics but somehow you're still against him?
I like Trump as a rhetorician and agree with some of his policies, but I think he'd be a terrible president because he'll be awful with foreign relations and doesn't have solid platforms on many of the most important issues America is facing, instead opting to campaign on immigration. I hate most of his supporters because they're by and large the worst the republican party has to offer. I don't fault anyone for supporting Trump so long as they can give an intelligent, non-emotional reason for doing so that doesn't amount to 'we've gotsta keep the darkies outta our cuntry' or 'he can get things done'.
>Dumb Americans are American citizens as well and Trump knows that so obviously he's going to reach them as well. But you're acting like all Trump supporters are like that when they've actually studied what he has said for example about Syria. I've seen very, very few Trump supporters who weren't cult of personality//pol/ drones. I don't doubt that politically-aware Trump supporters exist, just as politically-aware Obama supporters existed in '08, but they are sure hard to find.
>>53305724 I'm talking about the entirety of Saudi Arabia, which he boldly stated that he won't put up with. I want Saudi Arabia to get nuked as much as the next person, but we need to play nice with them for the time being, and publicly saying 'i won't deal with your shit' is not a good start.
>>53305764 >muh foreign leaders Do you not see what's going on in the world? We're in one of the most geopolitically sensitive eras of all time. Foreign relations are extremely important right now.
I admire your idealism, but the real world doesn't work like that. Also, Bush was a fucking terrible president in regards to foreign policy, so stating 'well at least nothing bad happened' isn't really a good idea. Plus foreign relations are much more complicated now.
>Trump already has the acceptance of Putin anyways. An American-Russian alliance would be fucking glorious. I'd like to see them become friends as well, but not at the expense of other allies. Moving straight into an alliance with Russia is going to piss off a number of other countries.
>>53305802 >I like Trump as a rhetorician and agree with some of his policies, but I think he'd be a terrible president because he'll be awful with foreign relations This has been going on since Bush and you're still standing as a superpower
>>53305998 >but we need to play nice with them for the time being How long bowing down to Wahhabist society and root of terrorism is long enough? I don't think Trump is going to nuke Saudis as he's also against the Iran deal and Iranians most definitely do want to nuke Saudis, but if USA starts boycotting them then I am positively surprised.
>>53305623 Trump would be amazing at foreign affairs, I don't know why you think otherwise.
When it comes to international diplomacy and trade, we have no friends, no country does, we just have business partners, and we hold basically all the global cards on which to bargain with, so if you think that Trump won't run the table when it comes to our international affairs, then you're crazy.
Nobody gives a shit what anyone says on the campaign trail, it's all just politics and everyone knows it. What matters is what happens behind closed doors in actual interpersonal relations, and almost nothing else. Trump is actually a nice guy, and everyone that knows him likes him, so to say that he won't become buddy-buddy with foreign leaders on a personal level, is just ignorance of the man's entire life, and since he'll be the de facto authority of the strongest singular entity on Earth, the US government, he'll be in the absolute strongest position possible to make things happen.
This isn't elementary school, these are all experienced professionals that know how the world works, and don't privately think in cucked terms like "le Trump said meanie-pants things, we're gonna stonewall him!". That's completely retarded and not at all how global affairs work. What rules the day is your interpersonal skills and business acumen.
>>53301424 It's the parties who need to fear him. He's incredibly vocal and popular, if he were to use that as a weapon in calling out shady politicians then he'd be able to destroy their careers in an instant just by speaking.
>>53306113 We have military bases worldwide, many countries will still continue to rely on us for defense. This will not change over a president wanting to bar refugees from entry or adovocating for the deportation of illegals.
>>53306001 We're still standing, but things have gotten extremely complicated within the last year. For example, look at what's recently happened between SA and Iran. The next prez is going to have to negotiate that and somehow deal with the fact that Iran is in the right without jeopardizing our alliance with SA (or at least without making a better ME ally). Or handling NK without pissing of China or getting SK nuked, or negotiating with Mexico to fight the narcos, or Syria...
Plus 'still standing' isn't a great metric. There are a lot of foreign relations that could use some work.
>>53306092 >How long bowing down to Wahhabist society and root of terrorism is long enough? I don't think Trump is going to nuke Saudis as he's also against the Iran deal and Iranians most definitely do want to nuke Saudis, but if USA starts boycotting them then I am positively surprised. I'd personally love to see the USA ally with Iran and Russia at the expense of the Saudis, but that would be an extremely risky political maneuver that would require a lot of diplomatic skill. Ending the relationship with SA would in general.
>>53305802 >doesn't have solid platforms on many of the most important issues America is facing, instead opting to campaign on immigration Do you realize that immigration is what concerns the vast majority of this country the absolute most, next to the economy and terrorism, which by the way are both integral parts of his platform?
You don't have to personally like it, but if you're going to say it isn't important, well there's hundreds of millions of people in the US that will tell you to eat a dick, because they're pissed off about it and want it addressed.
>I've seen very, very few Trump supporters who weren't cult of personality//pol/ drones You're just seeing what you want to see because of your own confirmation bias. You've done nothing but get BTFO this entire time and you still pretend you're the smart one in the conversation because you pretend you are.
You have almost no concept as to the issues that concerns huge portions of this country, and clearly you don't care as to the fact, because you're an idiot.
This country belongs to the people that live here, and if they say they want something done then it's the moral duty of their representatives to address it, even if you don't like it, so to actually sit here and pretend like Trump is anything but a representative statesman for talking about things people want talked about, then you're just another jackass with nothing but empty talk and double standards to back up the shockingly small amount of nothing that happens between your ears at any given moment.
>>53306319 >The next prez is going to have to negotiate that and somehow deal with the fact that Iran is in the right without jeopardizing our alliance with SA Well sorry but you can't keep the cake and eat it too, USA can not control the war between sunnis and shiites because muslims are gonna muslim nevertheless.
>>53306168 Why does everyone seem to think that America holds all the cards in negotiation? If that were true then we'd have told Saudi Arabia, Israel, and China to fuck off years ago.
You understand that nobody in the world aside from Trump supporters respects Trump, right? The entire world, foreign leaders included, are watching the US primaries like it's a reality show. There is almost no world leader who will take Trump seriously after this election, let alone put up with being spoken to as if in a businessroom. Again, diplomacy is nothing like business.
>This isn't elementary school, these are all experienced professionals that know how the world works, and don't privately think in cucked terms like "le Trump said meanie-pants things, we're gonna stonewall him!". That's completely retarded and not at all how global affairs work. What rules the day is your interpersonal skills and business acumen. He has charisma. He does not have the ability to deal with people who are eccentric/potentially psychotic, have resources that are necessary to America's prosperity, don't respect him as a person, have a strong personality that clashes with his, hate America, have allies that will respond based on negotiations between the two parties, etc. Diplomacy isn't like The Apprentice. There are many, many more factors at play and much more at stake.
>>53306200 lmao most countries despise but tolerate those bases >>53306373 How many times do I have to say that I'm American? Jesus Christ learn how to read.
>>53306398 >Do you realize that immigration is what concerns the vast majority of this country the absolute most, next to the economy and terrorism, which by the way are both integral parts of his platform? Yes, thanks for highlighting why so many American voters are so retarded and voting on their fee fees. Literally and demonstrably a non-issue.
>You're just seeing what you want to see because of your own confirmation bias. You've done nothing but get BTFO this entire time and you still pretend you're the smart one in the conversation because you pretend you are. Oh? How was I ~BTFO~? The only think I saw were more Trump drones talking about muh immigration with zero facts to back their claims and some more Trump drones who think that foreign diplomacy is like business negotiations and that 'not causing the country/world to collapse' makes for good foreign policy. And a Finn who's actually smart enough to make decent counter-arguments. Totally BTFO though I suppose :'(
>You have almost no concept as to the issues that concerns huge portions of this country, and clearly you don't care as to the fact, because you're an idiot. Do you wish to elaborate? Are you another one of the 'muh immigration' retards who doesn't know what the American immigration process is like?
>This country belongs to the people that live here
Thanks for proving my point about Trump supporters yet again. You're yet another idiot who's voting on their precious feelings without a single clue about what American immigration policy is like or whether or not immigrants benefit the country economically. You don't give a shit about anything but ~keepin out da brown ppl~. Thanks for being an example of my original point, I guess. It must be so hard to live life so afraid of something that doesn't exist. You should stop being so emotional.
>>53306523 i respect trump more than the other "polticians". it should be illegal to be a career politician. they have no business sense and no connection to the common man. they live in their own bubble where they take bribes and kickbacks at the expense of the everyday people that they are supposedly representing.
>>53306915 Well the answer is easy, you ally with Sunnis as always because apparently you must take part in this war too. Can't wait for refugee flow from Iran next time because USA is so good at choosing its allies.
>>53306523 >You understand that nobody in the world aside from Trump supporters respects Trump, right?
Funny, I don't care about what anyone in the world thinks, much less Canadians.
If they don't like Trump they don't have to vote for him, oh wait they can't, and they'll have to deal with it because we own the entire world while they're a bunch of whiners ruining their own countries in creative new ways we could only imagine.
So to say a bunch of peoples and countries I have 0 respect for don't respect or like us/our President, then I don't think my ability to not give a single shit would even register, as the whining cucks of the world will quickly get over it or laugh along in hilarious ignorance to the incredible problems and worthless politicians plaguing their own countries as they quickly slide into civil unrest and economic irrelevence as they fill their borders with poo in looers and Muslims rape gangs.
Oh no, Sweden is laughing at us while a gang of Muslims sends another of their virgin women to the infirmary, deflowered, whatever will I do.
>>53307263 I am 100000% positive that Trump will get along with anyone and everyone that is humanly possible to get along with, as evidenced by his several decades of doing exactly that in his wildly successful personal business ventures and global recognition.
Being a tough negotiator and a strongman looking out for national interests first isn't exactly anything new on the international scene, so if you're wetting your pants over someone talking about working for America first and doing it in a no-nonsense manner, then go vote for another worthless nobody who won't do anything of value because they're a spineless wimp that will keep selling off the country to the highest bidder, like le Weed Man, who will no doubt ruin Canada as literally nobody on the planet respects him because he's a manchild that accidentally into a position of power thanks to idiots and women.
People respect power, and people respect principled men, and as Trump is both of those, along with a great interpersonal touch, he'll be fine.
You're just imagining things based on your own childish view of the world.
>>53307604 >The basic mechanisms are the same, but business interactions and diplomatic interactions are very different. The latter is far more complicated for a number of reasons.
Since you're the expert here, and not the multi-billionaire world class negotiator, then I guess you have some concrete examples and situations of real life phenomena that differentiates interpersonal business deals with interpersonal POLITICAL deals.
>Not caring about blah blah blah blah I'm a cuck I'm an American voting for the President of America. The rest of the world can suck my dick and get off their worthless asses and elect people that care about their country too, but they won't because they're shit.
>>53307639 >Trump will win with a landslide The only thing keeping HRC from the White House is a prison sentence over her server, and Obama will shove his cock as deep as it needs to go down the throat of the Justice Dept. to ensure that doesn't happen.
Trump couldn't win against Clinton even without the media taking her side. Don't kid yourself.
>>53307558 You would be a lot more convincing if you didn't rant about "spineless wimps like le Weed Man" and then accuse me of being childish. I was merely pointing out that world politics get hairy when world leaders don't get along. I am sorry this angered you so -- but you do sound like a fourteen year old troll. Albeit that is the entry level for political discussions these days and no-one here should expect any level of coherence, either within a post or between a post and reality.
>>53307746 Good joke, Hillary is one of the most hilariously weak candidates for the Presidency in decades.
The only, ONLY, reason she stands a chance is because she's endlessly being protected by the DNC, the White House, the State Department, and the media. If Hillary was a Republican she would be in prison right now, but she isn't so she's not.
Not only is Hillary bleeding the traditional voting base of the Democrats in huge, and growing, numbers to none other than Donald Trump, but I fail to identify a single existing Democrat voting coalition that will back her in the general, aside from hardcore Democrats that will vote for a bag of dirt with a D next to their name. Not only will she not mobilize the youth vote this time, but she won't mobilize the minority vote either, sticking her with maybe hysterical single women, who by the way are liking her less and less as the days pass.
Hillary is entering 2016 and the general election with the following hilariously crippling problems that will devastate her chances by a lot:
>Obama's approval rating >The mounting evidence of extensive wrong-doing at her time in the state department >the ongoing investigation by the FBI, which now has overwhelming evidence against her and will likely move to indict >Bill Clinton's various sexual assaults that she personally helped cover up >Bill Clinton's relationship with billionaire pedophile who's island stocked with underaged prostitutes he frequented >The gun control executive order disaster, which she backs and then some, which the majority of Americans actually don't fucking like >Her backing/creation of the TPP >Her crippling brain injury that put her out of commission for half a year that she covered up >The ongoing health problems resulting from that brain problem >Whitewater >The potential for all of the victims of the Clintons over the years being brought out on stage by Trump >Trump's willingness to say what others won't.
>>53307699 >Since you're the expert here, and not the multi-billionaire world class negotiator, then I guess you have some concrete examples and situations of real life phenomena that differentiates interpersonal business deals with interpersonal POLITICAL deals. Okay, so you don't seem to understand how foreign leaders are different than businessmen. Think about how acting like ~le hardass at of the deal business guy~, refusing to sacrifice your pride, and coming into a meeting dead-set on getting what *you* want with:
North Korea China Saudi Arabia Eritrea Iran Pakistan ''''Syria''''' Angola Egypt Venezuela many more
without pissing anybody off or setting off a chain reaction with their allies. The leaders of these countries and many more aren't businessmen. They're eccentric, megalomaniac human rights violators who will react strongly against being insulted or losing their pride. Many of them have natural resources or manufacturing industries that are necessary to American prosperity. They can easily cut off America and sell their products elsewhere because that is the benefit of having lower-level imports. A Chinese or Saudi Arabian sanction against the US would devastate the economy, and all it takes is rubbing the leader the wrong way. Is that really this difficult to understand?
>I'm an American voting for the President of America. The rest of the world can suck my dick and get off their worthless asses and elect people that care about their country too, but they won't because they're shit. >Trump supporters
>>53307746 >>53307801 I know more than you do, when I say Trump is guaranteed it is based on more than "muh feels".
Protip- most of those blue states bordering the great lakes have electorates composed of near-90% white people with large working classes. Trump has said he will bring back the factory jobs they used to have, Hillary is the wife of the man who said he'd protect those jobs then accelerated de-industrialization by signing NAFTA and the trade deals with China. Do the math, fucktards.
>>53307985 Well luckily Trump has experience with, and tremendous success in, dealing with power brokers the world over, and more likely than not knows all the top negotiators from each and every one of those countries.
Also, America has the tremendous capacity to become self-reliant off of everything within our borders or at least continent. If we actually got into a situation where one country threatened to cut us off somehow, which would devastate their own economies beyond all rational thought, then we could in a manner of years base all necessities we once imported back into our own country, or forge relations with a new dirt poor country with the same resources, who would suck a golf ball out of a garden hose for some American investments.
We hold all the cards all the time, we just have to use them. Countries that act against us can easily be crushed thanks to our economic vacuum, with basically no other countries being nearly as wealthy to fill that void, as we move elsewhere and empower a new group of dirt farmers and loo pooers to become a regional superpower thanks to our money.
You seriously don't know anything about anything, because we're not some 3rd rate country who has to beg and scrape for favors, we're America, and at least for now, we're the world's sole superpower that calls the shots, and we can still act like it whenever we please.
>>53308101 This guy gets it. The rust belt will all vote for Trump, and with it will bring a landslide not seen since Reagan, if diminished by 10% or so.
It's already over, it's just happening in slow motion, and no amount of denial will stop it.
>but le trump can't win! Nobody else has 20,000 people showing up to rallies that start lining up at 4AM in below freezing temperatures.
Trump's supporters will come out no matter what, in overwhelming numbers, and carry him to the nomination with ease. It's not even going to be a close call unless Cruz magics up some support in the next 3 weeks and somehow deflects the stink of CANADIAN that Trump recently doused on him.
>>53308199 I ran out of room to even type up all the scandals that the Clintons are embroiled in.
No doubt Trump will mention the convenient death of JFK Jr. that helped Hillary get her senate seat too, so if the Dems think they're winning NY in 2016 then they're hilariously deluded as to the kind of man Donald Trump is..
>>53308101 >I know more than you do, when I say Trump is guaranteed it is based on more than "muh feels". If you're the idiot who thinks that legal immigration is an actual issue, then I have bad news for you...
>Trump has said he will bring back the factory jobs they used to have, Hillary is the wife of the man who said he'd protect those jobs then accelerated de-industrialization by signing NAFTA and the trade deals with China. Do the math, fucktards. lmao you sound like that black woman who thought that Obama was going to give her a ton of free shit. Dream on loser. Legal immigration of unskilled workers is so minuscule and spread across the country that it makes little to no demonstrable impact, and unless Trump has a concrete plan to make corporations less likely to outsource their manufacturing (lol), that assertion sounds just as unrealistic as building a giant fucking wall.
>>53308295 >unless Trump has a concrete plan to make corporations less likely to outsource their manufacturing Do you just not follow things he says or what, because he addresses this in almost every single stump speech he's given in the last 5 months.
>building a giant wall isn't realistic The Chinese did it with stone age tools like 2,000 years ago, and it's still standing today.
>>53308150 How old are you? You really don't seem to understand foreign policy at all. Also, 'power brokers' are a far cry from eccentric megolomaniacs who can wreck the American economy with the wave of a hand. I genuinely don't think you understand how intertwined and interdependent world economies are and how devastating it would be if a major source of manufacturing or raw materials decided that they didn't want to trade with us anymore. As I said, I appreciate your optimism, but you are hopelessly naive about America's level of autonomy and power. I would really recommend a politics or economics class or something because I can tell that you are smart enough to grasp the concepts once you're exposed to them.
>>53308403 >Do you just not follow things he says or what, because he addresses this in almost every single stump speech he's given in the last 5 months. let's hear it
>The Chinese did it with stone age tools like 2,000 years ago, and it's still standing today. It also took the Chinese an extreme amount of slave labor and countless amounts of money. What's your point? When did I ever imply that the issue with building a wall is the physical manpower?
>>53308437 Oh? Let's see some evidence on your end that pure business acumen can make for good foreign negotiations, and that America isn't incredibly dependent on foreign resource and manufacturing imports and can withstand pissing off an important trade partner.
>Legal immigration is an issue for middle class people like me you filthy chink, I'm sorry you won't be able to use canada as a stepping stone into my country but tough fucking luck Proof please. :^) I've already posted empirical evidence that legal immigration benefits America. You're just being emotional.
>Trump's concrete plan is extreme protectionism, tax breaks to those corporations who don't outsource and heavy tariffs on fucktards who do to protect our industry lol woah the standard plan that almost all candidates are running on or a similar version of, I wonder what differentiates Trump..
>The wall is non-relevant. Have you even read Art of the Deal? The point is to make a crazy-bullshit demand so that you can compromise. Take ten miles, then give nine back. That's the point fucktard. Yet another person who doesn't understand that foreign relations aren't like The Apprentice. Thanks for your addition to my 'trump supporters' folder. :^)
>>53308681 A wall would cost roughly 10 billion. Our military expenditure yearly is 1 trillion. Our federal budget is 3.5 trillion. Also we have 94 million people not working, and gorillions of illegals coming over looking for work, that already work at slave wages.
Wow however could we get a wall built, I guess it just isn't possible because some retard Canadian said so.
>>53308481 >>53308510 I have yet to see anything that didn't demonstrate my point that Trump supporters are brainwashed, under-educated, fearful, naive, emotional, jingoistic, illogical retards aside from the Finnish poster and the other poster who is clearly a teenager who is optimistic doesn't understand foreign relations. I mean, I would love to see empirical evidence that what you guys are saying is true about any point made in this thread, but I've yet to see any. You all truly are as retarded as the '08 Obama drones lol
Thanks for proving my original point, though, have fun being thoughtless drones because 'muh factory job' or 'muh American domination/economic isolationism' or 'muh art of the deal' or 'muh immigrants'. I'm sure Trump will win the election and make all your dreams come true. :)
>>53308722 Thanks for missing the point I guess. Building a wall would be blocked by either party in congress, useless given that tunnels are already a common form of border-crossing, and functions even now as a rhetorical technique to charm the far-right/a distraction from the actual problems plaguing the US. Illegal immigration is almost a non-issue right now, but Trump supporters are holding it to such high importance because it's easier to believe that Mexicans are causing their problems than to actually learn about American politics.
>>53308901 >immigration not an issue >demographics of the US completely destroyed within 50 years >1965 immigration bill passed with the guarantee it would not effect demographics >"Lol don't worry about it you don't know what you're talking about are you a racist? :)"
I'm pretty sure the union will fail if Trump isn't elected, actually. The states are getting mighty uppity, and militia membership is the highest it's ever been.
Oh but the people that settled, fought for, died, and built this country don't matter because now everyone in the world is an American and we should just get over the fact that we're importing unneeded competition into the US by the boatload to push out the blood that built this dump because they're not useful to the tiny fraction of people that only care about making money and being in power, so don't bother trying to frustrate their efforts by enforcing ownership over what is rightfully theirs.
Except the obvious part where workplace participation has declined from 67% to 62% and unemployment is higher than ten years ago, yeah we must be brainwashed. Trump says he'll fuck corporations and bring jobs back, you suck cocks. Why shouldn't I stump for Trump over your dumb faggy attempts to stump Trump?
>Not even in the nomination phase and a autistic canadian already think Trump will cause "le bad foreign policy"
What others fail to see is that other world leaders are a bunch of pussies scared by a businessman's mean words and rhetoric. If this is all what it takes to completely cut off trade from America then no wonder America became a global power. Trump would change his tune once he's president (if he become one).
>eccentric megolomaniacs who can wreck the American economy with the wave of a hand. This is the most retarded shit I have read. Nobody and no one will ever have the guts to completely cut off trade with America, show me one instance where a country eliminates its trade relation with America and showed a negative effect on the American economy. A lot of people are laughing because you failed to provide an ounce of evidence to show Trump will cause bad relations once he's president.
>>53309017 lmao you still haven't read anything about the American immigration process or the empirical, quantitative evidence that suggests that legal immigration is beneficial to the economy, did you? Keep thinking with your fee fees, I guess.
>I'm pretty sure the union will fail if Trump isn't elected, actually. Wow, another doomsday prediction like the billion others that occur during elections. Where are you planning to move if he doesn't get elected? :^)
>The states are getting mighty uppity, and militia membership is the highest it's ever been. Well yeah, the internet is a breeding ground for both left- and right-wing radicalism of all sorts. The '''''''militia'''''' isn't going to do jack shit aside from whine on the internet no matter what happens, and they certainly can't beat drones and the actual military if they are autistic enough to try something. >Oh but the people that settled, fought for, died, and built this country don't matter blah blah blah Holy shit, do you know anything about American history? America was built on the backs of immigrants. The original colonists, my family included, were political and religious refugees. The entire fucking country was founded on the premise that you could come here from any shithole so long as you were hard-working and supported American ideals. What the fuck are you even smoking? This entire country is made up of immigrants. It is ingrained into the culture. If you want a homogeneous, closed-off society then fuck off to some European shithole, please. Your ideas run contrary to the entire fucking history and concept of America.
t. my direct ancestors literally owned valley forge
Lots of white people say they're injun. The demographics haven't been destroyed but aren't ideal.
I don't know how white white hispanics are but expect in the next 40 years for them to be called "conquistadors" as a derogatory insult if trump isn't elected. They and us will be on the same side if anything happens, expect it. On the left is a white hispanic, the right is a non-white hispanic.
They say they'll "grow the economy" and "make jobs" and vague shit like that
Trump says he will throw up tariffs which will make it impossible to keep factories in foreign countries while making a base in America, while lowering taxes on corporations to a degree to which you'd have to be retarded not to come home.
>>53309217 >legal immigration is beneficial to the economy Who the fuck cares?
If "helping the economy" requires us to sell our country to a bunch of foreigners, then I'm perfectly fine in not helping it, because then our country is gone and replaced with something else, just so a few generations can buy food and jeans for a few cents cheaper.
A country is it's people, and if you replace the people you replace the country, so America will be no longer within a generation, and from the looks of things it will be a lot worse, so gg no re, globalism.
The American economy did just fine before we sold it out to China, Japan, Mexico and whatever other shitholes that take advantage of us, too.
ALSO, all this shit is totally meaningless because automation is maybe 10-15 years away, so all these economy boosting slave labor morons will become a total burden to us for the rest of eternity because of robots.
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