Will Britfaggots actually do it or will they pussy out?
40 years of more EU integration when we never really wanted it and nowhere near the influence we imagined we'd have. Lots of procedural things. Lack of democracy, loss of powers to EU, not having proper sovereign parliament. Lack of prospects for EU. Trade stuff which means we have to go through EU for a lot. We also hate free movement (although we wouldn't as much if New Labour hadn't opened the doors to the rest of the world too in 97), don't want the Euro ever.
If we stay we'll still be the one that complains but doesn't get any change. Leaving is an unknown but I think it's better for both long term. With the political will we can manage most of the benefits of being in without being part of a bloc of states that fundamentally disagree with us in so many ways.
>Tories want to abolish the EU human rights laws because they're too nice
Yeah I completely trust our government, it's not like they're trying to grab as much power as possible, what with spending all the money saved through austerity on nukes.
People are still going to be just as broke, but the tories will have free reign to do whatever THEY like, not what we the citizens want.
The pussy option is to leave the EU. It would just give the French and Germans more power over us in the long term, as we will need access to the single market and outside our negotiating position will be weak.
The patriotic option is to stay inside and use growing British influence in Europe (pic related) to make Europe suit us better.
OP, you are butthurt with us for joining the EU in the first place, and you never got over it. Clearly you would like to see us weakened. You can go and fuck yourself.
>Thought they would be calling the shots
Wrong, when we joined in 1973 we were the sick man of Europe. We WERE weak back then. Now we are getting much stronger.
EU law means we can't deport terrorists who happen to have a family, means gypsies can literally tarmac over whatever they fucking like, wants to make us give prisoners the vote.
We practically invented human rights, and Tories are going big on surveillance DESPITE being part of the EU.
You are also basically saying democracy doesn't matter when the results don't go your way, which is disgusting.
Reminder that Brexit fedoras favour commonwealth p*kis and blacks over hard-working white Christian folk from Eastern Europe
>I have to share a country with hyperbolic cretins like this
Not him, but if you don't like EU laws the best solution is to stay inside because it gives us options.
If we leave, we will be forced to adopt most EU laws in order to secure single market membership, and we won't be able to change the rules.
If we stay in, we can either use our increasing influence to change the rules to suit us better (this is EXACTLY what is happening right now), or if a future British government thinks the EU needs to die, it's easier to destabilise it from INSIDE rather than outside.
This is ALL about power and influence, maximising those things for Britain is what we need to do.
We will never have the influence Germany has in Europe. The Euro is based on the deutschmark and german economic policy for god's sake. The meme that if we were just keener we'd have a leading voice is absolute bullshit, total myth.
The only laws we will be forced to adopt are ones on export standards to the EU which we already meet.
I literally can't believe you are seriously saying we'd be subject to less EU law in the EU. It's like saying a US state is subject to less American law than one outside the union.
If the Euro is based on German economic policy, why did the Italian head of the ECB adopt quantitative easing despite German opposition to the programme? Want to explain that one for us?
Obviously being in the Eurozone gets you more influence and I don't think we should touch the Euro with a bargepole. The economic consequences of joining the Euro are just terrible.
However our influence in the EU can increase in other ways. Such as a relatively larger economy to the big EU countries, an increasing population and foreign policy influence.
>The only laws we will be forced to adopt are ones on export standards to the EU which we already meet.
WRONG. Why don't you go and tell that to the Norwegians?
>I literally can't believe you are seriously saying we'd be subject to less EU law in the EU.
I don't say that you idiot. I recommend learning to read before you try and sound clever. What I said is that inside the EU, we are better placed to change EU laws to suit us.
You want to make it easier for France and German to dictate terms to the UK. You must hate this country.
I want to extend British influence in Europe because I believe we're capable of that, our economic model is fundamentally better than any other major European country.
>Well if it works for the Norwegians and the Swiss!
Yeah but they didn't piss off the EU by leaving it did they?
>You want to make it easier for France and German to dictate terms to the UK. You must hate this country.
>I want to extend British influence in Europe because I believe we're capable of that
Oh get over yourself.
What is wrong with you? You actually can't read.
Where did I say it works for Norway? I pointed out the huge disadvantages in Norway's situation. Norway is dictated to by the EU. The Norwegians LITERALLY pay the EU to tell them what to do.
I didn't bother reading tbqh because comparisons to other countries never make any sense anyway because every case is different.
I was focusing more on your mad rant about people hating the country apparently for not wanting to have absolute power in the EU.
Replying without reading my post because you know I dismantled your argument. Yep, you're definitely delusional enough to be an Outer.
>I was focusing more on your mad rant about people hating the country apparently for not wanting to have absolute power in the EU.
Exaggerating what I said doesn't change anything. The UK having more influence in the EU isn't something which *might* happen, British influence has been increasing slowly since the late 80s.
All the indicators and fundamentals suggest our relative influence will continue to increase, not least because the majority of the continent has mired itself in stagnation with the Single Currency experiment.
That's not why I think you hate your country. I think you hate it because you want the continentals to have more influence over us, which is certainly what leaving the EU will do. Anyone who thinks about the situation for more than 10 seconds will come to that conclusion.
No you literally said
>You must hate this country.
Lost a lot of respect for you with that one, it's just pure arrogance to say I don't love this country because I don't believe starting another power struggle is going to make life any easier for anyone.
>starting another power struggle
You have no idea how the world works, do you?
I'll let you into a little secret. There will always be a power struggle, as long as different countries exist. You have NO choice in the matter.
We're already in the EU so I don't understand how it's "starting another" power struggle, rather than a continuation of what we have now.
If you think leaving the EU means an end to the struggle for power between states, you are too stupid for words. If you think the UK should stop trying to win the struggle for power and allow our competitors to win instead, then you disgust me.