I don't care that people do this but that they lie about it is unforgivable. He says he spent 5-6 days on it
I guess the best thing is that he'll only get money from patreon or views/ads since he doesn't do commissions and would be completely useless in a studio/firm. So, atleast he doesn't have any real impact other than impressing normies.
I retouch photos for a living. I can clearly tell you that the whole figure was warped/transformed and you can clearly see the texture compression from the liquify tool on the side of her face.
That being said, he seems to have some retouching skills, even though they seem niche. He could put in some effort into that and make money in that business instead of pretending to do digital paintings.
I guess narcissism is a hell of a drug though.
Irakli is basically the "clock kid" of the art world.
If you want to get a glimpse of his real rendering skill, look at that mysterious flat dark spot between her stage-left armpit and elbow where he removed some of the drapery with a soft-round brush eraser and then it appears he drew in a shadow himself. Look at it and laugh because it's probably the one place he actually "painted" in the traditional sense.
It's only easy if you understand how to paint and edit something. Grab a random image from google, open it in photoshop, liquify it a bit, then start painting over it without losing what's underneath it (unless you want to change that section entirely), meaning, lots of opactity play at low percentages (20-40%) mainly for cleanup and whatever edits you're doing, exaggerate lights and shadows, do some color changes through filters and curves, done.
Not saying that's what he did, but it's probably close to what he did.
The most telling sign is the pixelation, artifacts and onion skin. That simply wouldn't be there if he had painted over the whole thing, but it shows up because everything but the face is simply a recycled jpg run through a filter.
Anyone good with foto forensics/error level analysis (ELA)?
I ran it through this site:
But I don't know how to interpret the results. It analyses the jpg compression somehow.
Fuckers these days are even using photos in studies without any shame at all. A guy on level up posted a photo "study" of a woman smoking. Instead of painting the smoke (ya know, the whole point of the whole thing) he photo bashed it with smoke from another photo.
it means the edges which were blurred stand out. The pasted in mouth, and the enlarged eyes also do. That's purely a difference thing. That tool is more for photos, where things such as the straight lines can point to photoshopping, but we already knew he did that with the eyes because of the super obvious lasso tool hiding.
Here's a picture anon, as an example. My liquify is not exact, but it's close enough. You could probably also throw in a bunch of lasso, copy/paste rotates and scaling to get the angles just right. Especially on the head.
Then you just paint over it.
I hope this has been very educational, anon.
I don't care about this faggot, I just want to teach anon how the cheating works. Amazingly, some people cannot do paintovers no matter how hard they try. I had a friend I kept trying to show and they just did not get how to make their colors and strokes match the photo. They wanted to understand how people did it, but it just did not click with him.
How the fuck did everyone miss the fact that the face and chest don't match? Look at the thumbnail again. It's like this poor girl had a horrible accident so the worlds best future surgeons attached her head to the body of another girl who died and she just came out of surgery looking fucking gorgeous but her complexion hasn't evened out yet.
I'm guessing he had to leave it because there's hair lying on her breast bone and he neither had the skill nor the patience to cheat it.
But don't hyperrealists and even realist painters do that sort of thing regularly? I mean, when drawing, sometimes I manage to happen on something that looks really good, a happy accident. I've seen more impossible things done artwise, but the notion of this dude able to make such a... identical portrait, if that is the complaint, seems to baffle people.
Or make them angry. Either way, really cute girl. Honestly, I prefer her eyes smaller, otherwise she looks like a cousin of mine.
wojtek fus plagiarized like a mad cunt and is now working healthily in the industry. so yeah, nothing matters anymore.
i would take any bet that i can make faux persona accounts everywhere, and bombard artstation/fb with 3-4 photobashed ultra lame cliche garbage pieces, while utilizing parts of other peoples work, and snowball that into a 10k follower facebook account and a career.
would call myself Mr. mister conceptfart
Notice how in these process gifs things move around as the artist tries to match the photo better.
This doesn't happen in nadars case. he starts out with everything in perfect placement and nothing ever changes. It just gets more and more rendered until shit matches up to the photo pixel by pixel.
This new painting of his is completely different than his others though. You can tell he took some extra effort to make things "different" from the photo by warping them around.
Nadar believes he is the ONLY and FIRST artist to achieve photo realism in digital art. From his own mouth.
No one else has ever done it according to him. Not even pic related
where did he post this ? I didn't find it, is this some /ic/ circle jerk bait again ?
If he DID post this, then how the fuck isn't he getting called out by other popular artists and how can people be so gullible wtf.
Paintovers are desired in the industry. They don't want your construction skills, they want an idea, and they don't care how you put it together. Paintovers are fast, efficient and full of detail, thus, desired.
I quit being an artist because people kept paying me money to give them paintovers and I lost my mind. I wanted to draw, make things myself, not paintover photos and 3D models. I don't understand how other people enjoy paintovers, but they can gladly have my old job. Being an artist is balls.
to be fair, the model has a weird neck.
But why does his brushwork look like such shit in this one compared to others. Just look at that chest. Ew.
Also, it's funny to see how he did the sternal muscle without a reference
What's the point of this?
I'm currently drawing and practicing 3/4 hours per day, why would I do that just to copy a photo? I'm not even saying that he traced over it or anything, but why make it the same? What's the point of the image? What was gained from it aside from praise for the person who did it? I guess it's slightly different than the photo, but still, why would you ever?
Seriously, there are people asking him for commissions, but commissions for what? Portraits? But why would you want a portrait that looks exactly like a photo? What's the point? I've seen many things about people who only do this, they take photos and they draw them and paint them dot for dot, and they end up exactly or nearly exactly the same as the original. What the fuck, what a waste of fucking time.
Am I wrong here?
I dong get it /ic/
i have a friend who got called a liar because her studies her so exact
except she spent the week on it and i, her roomie was there through process
Niggas need Loomis t.b.h.f.a.m.
They took down the video lol. But I still had it open in another tab before they did.
It was a speedpaint of this hyper realistic brown loli portrait where all he did was throw a filter over it and pretend to paint.He had the balls to zoom in so you can see the jpeg artifacts while he "paints" in the exact same place as it is in the photo. Albeit a tiny bit more blurry.
Am I blind and can't see them? I guess I don't quite understand what you guys mean by that or where you see them, these images look clean to me. Could someone point out a few examples?
This guy definitely cheats though, for sure.
bet ya I can do a piece exactly like his in under one hour. consider me started around 10 min after posting this (gotta find suitable ref).
i think i've got his process down exactly just from looking at the pics.
yeah i actually gave up after about 15 minutes. i just don't care enough desu. it's not like there's any doubt that it's not painted (to me atleast, but go ahead and say dumb shit like 'hurrdurr you can't do it so how can you claim blabla).
Super disappointed as I had liked his work at the beginning, but didn't see his references and thought it was done from scratch.
Here's some images from the old thread which was taken down.
I don't think anyone really has a problem with the use of photos and existing art inhouse and behind closed doors, it's just odd to see it bleeding into personal artwork and its allowing for people with weak technical skills to get into "concepting". You can argue that understanding how to draw doesn't mean you can design well and thats certainly true, however I think theres more value to someone that has a good grasp on their craft over someone that produces a result akin to the webdesign photoshop tutorials.
The laughable outcome of Maciejs "different" concept pieces by his studios is a testament to this, people with little to no skill can get to the level of a veteran concept artist because of a workflow.
All that being said, I wonder when photobashing really started to be accepted, probably around 2012-13? I've got the original Assassins Creed artbook and its all hand painted or mesh paintovers, I think its a circular / self fulfilling issue.
This shit is pretty funny. These are like the sad clown paintings of the digital art age. They're hilariously creepy. There should be a digital moba with a hall devoted to shitty uncanny valley paintovers.
When you put them next to eachother you can cearly see how retarded Irakli really is. Fucking inbred.
He's adding value to the pictures, you might not appreciate it, which is fine, but he's pushing further in so many levels the appeal of the photo with his stylization, as he's making it OBJECTIVELY more cute and sexy.
Why objectively? because what he's actually doing changes that makes her younger/healthier/more sexually available
That matters a lot, and that's all he's actually doing with great merit
It could be perfectly possible to acomplish without cheating, with only editing your reference first.. but his shady background, non-organic process behind these, and buthurt levels against critics points that he's an asshole trapped on a really big cognitive dissonance
It's actually a really failed attempt at stylizing her features. Especially the eyes don't fit at all and make her face look uncanny as fuck.
Also, you are moving your goal posts. You were saying paintovers are desired in this industry because clients don't care about construction, but want to see ideas. In that case, the photographer provided the idea, the artist didn't do anything with it other than minor touch-ups.
what attractive? don't you get it's younger, jaw bone grows with age, so it gets away 4 years with that, making it look more fertile as she's more young, and more femenine, as she's actually pretty square-face
if you wan't to make a face prettier, you have to avoid being realistic, or you're unliekely adding anything
if you're not into kawaii things it's gonna be cringe for you
but there's no discussion, it's popularity is consequence of that success at the things I'm pointing
moreover the fake skills he claims that makes it seem kinda extraordinary
it is interesting that the capacity for photobash/ 3d paintover has existed for about a decade+, as seen by compositors but we're only really seeing it become big in illustration/design over the last couple of years. what changed?
Attitude toward it I imagine, in terms of generations you only really have to go back one school cycle to see where things changed. 2008~ you still had people like m@ etc still just painting, thats all you saw in all the toptier CA.org sketchbooks.
We've now got an agegroup of 20-24~ year olds that didn't have that, they look to artstation/dying cghub and see Eytan Zana and Shaddy with their confident/arrogant attitude toward these practices. You either copy them as they "pioneer" or you get no work, they're drinking that koolaid.
As someone thats been around since 2004 I see it similar to how people bought into Jason Manleys mantra when Massive Black started up, they thought themselves rockstars, it's rather amusing if you go back and watch the older tutorial videos they put out.
That and learning to draw is time consuming, if people can get good at copying quickly and it yields compliments then people will do that?
There is nothing wrong with proper photobashes like what Eytan Zana does. The end result looks nothing like the photos he uses. There is lots of actual design work done and the artist creates the composition himself, before searching for photos to fit it.
The problem lies with hacks who use the photo as the composition itself, without changing anything meaningful whatsoever. They don't do any design work, they just steal the work of a photographer and call it their own.
I've nothing really against Shaddy or Eytan more how what they do gets misunderstood, all of the Naughtydog team that pushed that stuff forward are really skilled, Sweeney has fantastic sketches and Eytan has all his work from shit > now on his blogspot.
Theres a lot of people that are using the workflow to circumvent the actual work of learning to draw, jump right in and learn how to use adjustment layers ontop of fashion models. It's a method that can be taught as a simple photoshop tutorial and now all these people are "concept artists". I guess thats just how it goes?
their concepts being pretty girls? nigga please
although knowing my luck the more i rage at these guys the more likely it is that the universe will want to have a laugh at my misery and make them get hired by top studios.
i swear i'm just waiting for that to happen.
fucking universe always pissing me off on purpose.
People aren't "baffled" that he draws a hyperrealistic portrait. That stuff happens all the time. People are upset that he took such an obviously lazy way about making the portrait. Guys like Eloy Morales do hyperrealism the real way, instead of slapping some filters in Photoshop and calling it art.
You're viewing this differently than I am, I see.
For personal work and showing what you can do, you don't need personal ideas, you just need to show you can paintover. The skillset is all that's necessary. When I say they want an idea, I don't mean they want your ideas, I mean they want to see their ideas. They don't give a shit about your personal ideas. Most of the ideas come from who's in charge, and they pretty much just tell you paste things together and make it look nice, to match an image in their head. None of the things I've ever painted over has ever been because of someone telling me to come up with something myself, it's because they wanted to see their own idea mashed together and I was a tool to make it happen. Concept artist was not my main job. I could just paint over, so I was given the job and it was convenient for them to keep giving me the job.
If someone lets you draw from scratch, it's because they're actually letting you think about it, and you're actually creating something. In which case, you're doing the right job and dodged the shit job.
The jumpcuts looks really suspicious.
And even if he is really autistic enough to copy a photograph down to pixels his work still lacks any value as a piece of art. Same goes for those people into traditional hyperrealism.
Fuck off faggot, no is buying into your shit.
The background layer is a blurry mess full of jpg artifacts and chromatic aberrations. No one paints like this. If he actually did all that work honestly it'd just make him more retarded. The point of hyperrealism is to paint something that looks, you know, realistic, not like a low res jpg ripped off the internet.
You start with putting all the photo resources together and liquifying, etc, in order to get it all set up. Photo manipulation is pretty much your composition and planning stage but you can always edit it more as you're painting if you find lasso, rotate, or more liquify helps its case.
Give it a proper background fitting for what you're trying to achieve, and then add shadows, highlights and gradients. Break up the objects in the photo with colors and shadows that match your image. Add in new light sources, such as strong rim lights, etc, and make sure they match all the objects in your scene. Add in some color correct when it's necessary, which actually should probably happen sooner rather than later. The point of the paintover is to unify the photos and make the picture look good and cohesive as a whole, as if it were a painting and not a photo manipulation.
You just then touch it up, clean up the pixels, focus on the details, make things clearer, keep adding things where it makes it pop out more, if you lose details, paint them back in or just overlay in a highpass layer, etc, whatever makes your shit look shiny, and you're done. Always paint on new layers and lower opacity and paint in low opacity, softbrushes to keep the original photo details intact and easier to paint over. It's meant to be a quick job, but you can easily spend more time on a paintover and have it look very, very painterly. Some people do however, do it to the point where the original photo is completely lost. I know one guy for example, who takes his own high res photos, of models he hires, throws his photos into photoshop, paints over them to the point where said person is now a humanoid creature and everyone thinks he does it the traditional way, when in fact, he can't draw the conventional way at all, and all he's good at is "editing".
How good the end result looks depends on how well you know how to use photoshop and how well you know how to paint.
Even worse, slow the video at 0.25 speed from the menu, what he does on canvas doesn't even match the layer hierarchy, even worse, he seems to be painting detailed hair or large skin areas on the nose and cheeks yet the layer is empty all the time.
this should shut up all the retards claiming photobashing and fraud. yet their emotional investment, make them blind to the facts
>MUH JPG ARTIFACTS
fucking moron, do you realize youtube compression obliterates any possible jpg artifact visible?
>MUH EMPTY LAYERS
stupid retard, go learn some photoshop. he's clearly painting everythig in a single layer, the temporary layers are just for distorting small details, which go immediately flattened
>being such ignorant on a digital painting board
the blocking at the beginning of the video is literally the first step for doing an autistic copy of a photo, only thing missing is when he filled his canvas with the base color
i know /ic/ just finished reading the very first pages of some loomis stuff, but you DON'T need to do sketches and construction at all if your only intention is to render a photo exactly as it is
My generation would still trash print-worthy art because the craving for improvement was stronger than our ego. We didn't gave a shit if no normie ever liked us so long as our art got good reviews from people we admired or was paid for by business we were interested in.
Today, the art doesn't matter, only that people bow down in awe and people are willing to pull out every trick in the book and cripple their own development for likes/reblogs.
Digital collage has been a thing since PS and PSP have existed, but people didn't claim to be virtuossos because they could photobash until very recently.
I keked so hard when Nazar posted this, showing irakli nadars pathetic and unjutified hubris.
Why exactly do we keep bringing the topic of photobashing (and similar techniques) up — when at this point it's bluntly obvious that few "consumers" of the resulting product care exactly how it was done and even fewer "artists" care what someone on the internet thinks of their techniques?
>mfw he could be mentally disabled and actually autistic enough to copy pixel by pixel. And painting the way in which he deals with it
>wakka will never draw you like his anime girls
that's obviously a photo retouch.
He can use this kind of skill to have a career for a magazine because it can get your attention. But of course the original photographers should sue him.
Unless he use his own photos and hire his own models this technique can benefit him.
atleast he has a sense of art direction and aesthetic
though I hate him really
>Irakli Nadar 2 days ago
+jace wallace oh really? than why there is no professional artist who has done copy at that level in digital, if its so easy and if it doesn't take any skill? please don't tell me they don't want to do it, because they think its too easy and have no interest in it to even to try it once. I thought same years ago, I thought that copying photos exactly as they are was goddamn easy thing to do, until I tried and that makes me wonder, because your art doesn't look amateurish and you should definitely know that, but you prove otherwise. I've painted images without photo references, that you can see in my gallery, I can push it improve it and explore it more, maybe I will do someday but please don't tell me what to do and what is art and what is not.
jesus christ this guy
>shaved off like half her jaw
That's something, right?
yeah this should be the first thing to be made, instead of crying over it in /ic/ threads. I also think he's selling it or at least making profit with those in some way. which is illegal I think ?
This is Irakli response to Jace?
>Than why there is no professional artist who has done copy at that level in digital, if its so easy and if it doesn't take any skill?
The answer to his question is easy, most artists know they can't get regular work just doing photo paintovers of other peoples images. I'm sure plenty of pros do detailed studies all the time but don't bother to post them online....because they're studies and they aren't involved in the technical ability wank fest that is facebook.
The first thing you see most amateurs get good at is copying photos and shit from life, because it's easy once you put in a bunch of time doing it. Anyone can become a copying machine.
Probably not, hence the photo paintover. If you could do something from memory why not just do everything from imagination? It'd be way more interesting.
Do people actually care about their image on 4chan? I mean, seriously now. You're going to get assblasted no matter what you do on this site. Even if you got people to believe what you want them to believe, no one is going to praise you or apologize, they're going to assblast you for pretty much using a grid.
>than why there is no professional artist who has done copy at that level in digital
Um, hasn't Algenpfleger done super detailed, photorealistic studies? (If memory serves me correctly, I haven't looked at his art in awhile.) Also, I'm sure people like Algenpfleger and Janaschi could truly do a copy of a photo like that if they wanted to.
I'm sure any AAA level artist with good fundamentals could. They just don't because there's there's no artistic value in it.
Is that rally you? could you try something from imagination maybe? otherwise you're not more valuable than my phone's camera. Like, just the camera alone, not even the photographer's hands and decisions for the picture.
I bought your gumroad man because I actually like what you're doing. I felt a bit cheated and was disappointed that you didn't include a full res, full quality version of the painted portrait. The description says a high res image will be included but the resolution was barely better than the one you uploaded to artstation. So if you are going to make more gumroad time lapses, please consider including a full resolution image.
>buying from an obvious hack.
>thinking he will ever give a high resolution version
>buying from an obvious hack to start with
a higher resolution would only expose him, you just threw whatever amount of money he charges in the trash bin.
Where's the red? He starts drawing with it at about 1:20 (watch in full screen). What happens shortly afterwards is weird because it's like the color he has selected stops mattering at all.
Iraki, if you ever want to convince someone, make a livestream.
start with a clean white canvas and show us how you made this blurry picture from which you start >>2391119
and make sure we can see your tools.
>n-nobody has done realism at a high level before goys!
linran, chuck close, random chinese impressionist #635, seybold, geddes, eugene burnand
how is it possible to be such a lolcow? even ilya wasn't this bad
>anybody reached out to the photographers yet ?
Since apparently no one bothered to do it in the dozens of other threads we have already had on this topic — I would not keep my fingers crossed for anyone doing it now.
This guy is earning $2,688 per week in doing exactly the same thing
I know everybody already talked about it but sometimes it's good to refresh memory;
Like I said in the post. You see some red for a moment, and then it disappears and those grayish-purple strokes appear instead despite the fact that the color selector hasn't changed.
ctrl-z, because the opacity of the first stroke was too hard, and then keeps painting in a way too subtle to be noticeable in the video. you must have done that a million times before, if you paint digitally
at this point, I'm sure you people will keep nitpicking and producing conspiracy theories, no matter what amount of real evidence is out there.
guy doesn't even know why strokes can disappear and discussing digital painting
>doing exactly the same thing
>he doesn't know
Just look at this newfag. Do you know that this "meme" was born here, Iraki?
This is funny.
He keeps pausing the recording software on and off to erase, move things and turn the background layer on and off, that is why it produces jumps in his cursor and artefacts as the video goes on. If you look at the bottom at his scratch disk size, it keeps changing when hes not using anything or painting anything, also in between saves which proves the pauses in the recording software. He even put the color picker over his history or w/e panel, there is even a background layer with the reference.. ayy lmao what a hack. 10/10 kek.
There is someone I know making money off this exact process. It isn't just this guy.
This is example of their work from their facebook page.
>oh great another Kr0nzpr1nz/Ilya kushiwhateverthefuck plagiarism threa-
>it's a different guy
just more proof that stealing/copying and plagiarizing is a fast way to get fame and money I guess
I legit thought this was a Ilya Kushinov/Kr0nz thread for a second
So let me get this straight, everybody here is shitting on him, yet nobody:
-reached out to the photographers
-reached out to art station
-called him out in his comments
what the fuck are you thinking you're gonna achieve by talking about it on /ic/ ?
The idea that he woud paint his 'study' on a single layer with maybe a temp layer ontop of that is absolutely laughable.
LOL at the amount of effort you put into deceiving everyone Irakli. Just learn how to paint, it's not even hard.
It proves next to nothing at this point — presumably "photobashers" already lie to general public about the technique/process they use, so what's stopping them from just lying about the exact legal implication of the kind of "borrowing" they do?
The need to reach the photographers themselfs and ask how they see it from their end.
Because we care about quality control and the little image we have in society. If hacks like these are allowed, new artists would be even lazier and down goes the entire art community.
>Because we care about quality control and the little image we have in society.
How broad are these "we" you refer to, exactly?
Only digital artist? Only picture-related arts?
All arts and crafts on earth in general?
>If hacks like these are allowed
They are and always have been.
>new artists would be even lazier
Isn't that a GOOD thing for "non-lazy old-school" artist?
>and down goes the entire art community.
That's not how it works and you know it. Now with modern art in all it's glory being a thing for a few decades "lazy artists" are not going to sick the art community an inch deeper.
>Isn't that a GOOD thing for "non-lazy old-school" artist?
I'd have to agree. Younger generations (in the USA anyway) seem to be lazier. If newer artists want to go down the photobash "shortcut" path chasing that realistic look rather than work on their creativity and fundamentals let them. There's always jobs for artists who can come up with ideas from scratch and execute images from imagination without heavy reliance on reference.
Less people to compete with, sounds ok to me.
In the freelance market (dealing with companies) it's probably not a great idea to be the guy who's a "clone" of another artists. I'm sure you'd still get work but if a company wants art like yours they'd just go hire the more well known "real" guy.
It's probably fine to start out that way to get some jobs but I'm sure it'd be more beneficial to be doing your own thing for your long term career.
>they'd just go hire the more well known "real" guy.
expect the REAL guy might be swamped with more work, refuse the gig, ask for more $$$, etc.
Also, art directors always ask "hey, can you draw this in this style?"
Here is what the artist in question has to say about all of you.
The worst part about people like you buying into his shit is that you'll try to learn the wrong methods to paint by finding excuses for his scam.
It's self-marketing for him, we get it. But it's in no way a representation of "skills", it's just something to impress normies and become famous for patreon and commissionbux.
Algenpfleger is just as much of a fraud, he's just being more clever about it.
You autists need to realize that 90% of "famous artists" with PERFECT SKILLS just fake it until they make it.
It's mostly smoke and mirrors and self marketing.
>Isn't kr0n doing mostly imagination stuff now?
He just got more crafty about his fakery.
He is still a scam artist by heart and soul.
You're a fucking retard. Not every artist who is better than you is a fraud, you dumb shit. It's incredibly easy to spot people who paint over photos and Algen is not one of them.
He has also done tons of very loose studies with no opacity and no pen pressure, focusing purely on accurate colors and values. Hacks like Irakli couldn't do shit like that to save their life.
>You autists need to realize that 90% of "famous artists" with PERFECT SKILLS just fake it until they make it.
First of all, spotting photo paintovers is easy as shit. Secondly I see no reason to doubt artists who can either apply their studies to their work from imagination or can do it traditionally just as expertly as digitally. Which is about 90% of "famous artists" I know. But who knows, maybe 90% of famous artists you know are indeed just hacks who paint portrait "studies" on their Deviantart account and nothing else, in which case you might want to expand your horizon a bit.
Stop idolizing people based on their self-marketing they put out.
It will seriously hinder your progress as an artist if you keep believing every fraud who comes along.
People like randis albion, algenpfleger or irakli are frauds that use gullible masochists like you for easy money. Their self-style genius image is just to impress fools and part them with their money.
It's not about being better or worse it's about those hillarious masochistic phototraces
like Algen's hillarious "oh I drew this appartment photorealistically in mspaint" bullshit for example.
It's just self-marketing. It has nothing to do with skills, just with endurance and a desire to impress people to get patreonbux running
>Which is about 90% of "famous artists" I know. But who knows, maybe 90% of famous artists you know
I'm strictly talking about the iraklis, algenpflegers and other patreon scamsters here.
Not actual legit "artists"
But people making photostudies of appartments and models for a living are such a hillarious thing to happen.
Algenpfleger and his "no refs used, all from my mind, took me 3 hours" bullshit created this enviroment where everyone starts lying about what they do and how they do it and then upload faked "speedpaints" to one up each other in the first place.
Why even mention "no refs used".
Everybody uses reference photos for objects, architecture, etc. Depending on what you want to draw.
Createing this self-image of some god-like being who has every reference image in the world saved in his brain is just unrealistic.
Well, it's a way to destroy the competition.
People will see all those people claim no picture takes them longer than 2 hours and using reference is bad.
It's bullshit. Algenpfleger probably intesively uses reference, why wouldn't you if your entire thing is painting photorealistically?
Then everyone feels like they have to create photorealistic paintings in under 2 hours with no reference. They realize they can't and then you end up with dipshits like irakli who just overpaint photos and claim NO REFS USED, LOL ALL FROM THE MIND.
I see why algenpfleger lies about this shit, because it's his gimmick and his marketing thing. That's how he peddles his shit to gullible retards.
But on /ic/ we should be realistic that he's lying about his process in order to make himself look good. BECAUSE IT BRINGS IN CASH, why wouldn't he?
That's a nice theory and everything, where is the evidence? If you do a lot of studies you eventually build up extensive visual library. I don't see anything in your example pic that looks too complicated. I fully believe he has the skills he claims to have.
I'm not idolizing anyone, you retard, I'm just telling you that you are delusional as hell if you assume anyone who is better than you is a fraud. Especially when it's so easy to spot the actual cheaters.
Also, Algen has made his entire art career as an illustrator. He started professionally in like 2010 and made his Patreon a couple of months ago. I'm not an art director for WotC, so whatever I think of his art had literally zero influence on how much money he used to make.
That doesn't make him a fraud though, it just makes him an arrogant liar. He still drew those images, figured out the perspective and composition, set up the lighting, painted them etc. You yourself say using reference is normal and everyoen does it, so why would Algen be a fraud for using references?
The physics behind to pull off a stunt like that would require an enormous amount of force and energy given the fact that she has all that weight from herself it just doesn't seem convincing enough to cause a lift to be air worthy she'll need a form of support that the hand would of shown that support instead it looks like he got lazy and referenced a hand off google image search.
Plebian if you ask me.
It's perfectly clear to me that she came flying towards that dude in the front while still being in full momentum and her hand is barely grazing the ground while doing so. That hand doesn't need to be there at all. Her body is not grounded, it's in the fucking air. You literally have autism.
>I fully believe he has the skills he claims to have.
Then you are a easily fooled moron.
Because if he has the skills he claims why would he impose those strange rules on himself?
>NO IM NOT GOING TO USE REFERENCE FOR THIS FLORAL PATTERN ON THE FLOOR, I WILL MAKE IT UP ON THE SPOT
If he is at that high level using reference would only make him BETTER, so why not use it?
This is some dragonball powerlevel shit.
>I wasn't even using my FULL ARTIST POWER
He is using reference and he's probably putting a lot of effort into his paintings, but claiming he did them in a few minutes, without reference and straight from the mind is just dishonest and thats why he is a fraud
> instead it looks like he got lazy and referenced a hand off google image search.
Wait, do you seriously believe Algen can't draw a simple, flat silhouette of a hand in such an easy position, without using google images? Dude, how bad at drawing are you?
>so why would Algen be a fraud for using references?
You missunderstood my point.
I'm not saying that algen is a fraud for using reference, I'm saying he is a fraud for lying about how he does things.
He uses references like everyone else and he probably works very hard on most of his paintings. But his insistence of ALL FROM THE MIND, TOOK ME 10 MINUTES, NO BIGGIE, IT WAS EASY is what makes him such a disgusting fraud.
The way he constructed this "wunderkind rockstar" image of himself, by painting photorealistic.... kitchen sinks FROM THE MIND make him such slimey lying fraud.
But it works for him, he got enough braindead idiots who will shower him with money.
>yeah this painting took me roughly 8 hours, I used some photo reference so I don't have to spend hours doing trial and error to get my trademark photorealistic blending on every surface from glass to stone and cihna just right
sounds a lot less impressive to fools than
>20 minutes, didnt even look at it, my brain is a supercomputer and I can visualize very object, physical flow of light particles and surface IN MY HEAD AND NOW WITNESS MY SPEEDPAINTING
He has repeteadly stated that he does it because he likes the challenge. I've seen first hand what skilled digital painters can do from imagination, and I know many enjoy working without reference. I'm not saying it's better but Algen is far from the only one who does it.
Not him, but I actually agree.
If you construct a drawing like that you will want to give the fingertips TENSION, but her hand just wobbles idly on the ground, pretty much like the hand of the dude who just dropped his sword.
There is no tension or anything in their hands.
They are just idle silhouettes when they should be in more dramatic poses.
And yes, for an image showing something as cheesy as a chick with fings and battle stockings charging a knight you might as well make their hand poses a bit more unique or dramatic, which you would be easily able to do if you constructed them properly beforehand with some ideas in mind of how to heighten tension.
> he's probably putting a lot of effort into his paintings, but claiming he did them in a few minutes
Not that guy, but Algen never claimed anything like that for any of his finished illustrations or detailed studies, you're just making shit up as you go.
In fact, Algen has always been known as a very slow and deliberate artist. If you ever watched one of his livestreams back in the days, he would spend HOURS on just the lineart, to get it as accurate as he could. Then he'd spend even longer using magnetic lasso tool to map out everything that requires a hard edge on a different layer. Back in those days, he put a shitton of effort into his work and you can easily tell the difference between his old work done that way and his derpy 2014+ work that is often very rushed and lazy.
>Not that guy, but Algen never claimed anything like that for any of his finished illustrations or detailed studies, you're just making shit up as you go.
I don't care what you think about the hand gesture and how you would have drawn it. That dude I was replying to is too stupid to understand that this figure is FLYING and the hand has nothing to do with the weight distribution of the figure.
>Not him, but I actually agree.
So because a basic looking hand doesn't look like how you'd envision it in the scene, that means he relied on google image search? Wouldn't the simpler explanation be that he got lazy with that hand? I mean, it's incredibly basic - a mask of a hand shape and a couple of texture brush strokes slapped on top. It's not even anatomically accurate.
>I don't care what you think about the hand gesture and how you would have drawn it
Oh, we got a badass here.
I'm saying that every body in motion has tension, her hand pose looks like some photobashed shit.
Algenfraud is a hack and you are a moron for believing his self-created image of the perfect artist.
No, you are just literally retarded for thinking an angel in mid-flight is using their fingertips to balance their weight on the ground. You would be equally retarded no matter who drew that image.
Again, you're pulling the "minutes" out of your ass. Pretty sure algen was painting about 12hrs a day. By that metric even if it took him 15hrs to do the painting, that's about a day.
24 hours or "a day" meainging within a working day.
Also yeah, not going to jump through any more mental loops with you lunatics here.
>h...he n...never uses references because he likes the challenge
How naive can you be?
It's all self-marketing and only people who are not serious about art would believe such shit in the first place.
Every great artist has a huge library of photobooks, references, notes, and more reference books.
Because it enables you to work properly and correctly.
Stating you don't use reference is just a tryhard lie to impress people with no idea about drawing.
It's like a track and field athlete saying he doesn't like to train or he prefers running with wellies on.
>Again, you're pulling the "minutes" out of your ass.
Yes, because I was exaggerating for comedic effect, are you autistic or german you fucking mongoloid?
If you're this dense in communication no wonder that frauds manage to scam and fool you.
I'm not sure why you'd call Algen a perfect artist. I think he's fairly mediocre, far from perfect. But to think he can't draw a fucking hand as simple as that one from imagination is just mindblowingly stupid. I mean, I can draw a hand like that from imagination and I'm way worse than him.
If you can't draw such a simple hand gesture from imagination, then that sucks for you, but you really shouldn't assume everyone is as bad as you are.
>h...he n...never uses references because he likes the challenge
I never said that. He himself mentions that he does several hour long studies leading up to an illustration, then applies what he learnt. That seems like a fairly competent and common way of using references to me. Instead of copying references while working on some personal piece, you search for references you deem useful and study them extensively prior to starting your piece.
literally the randis albion of the 2010's.
Randis was also the "i never use reference" and "speedpainting guy", also from germany.
Got busted for tracing japanese porn for his aquanox character faces and completely got demolished on the conceptart forums for it.
Algenpfleger is probably lying just as much, but being a bit more clever about it.
That's how Ruan Jia does it as well. I remember a picture showing his process to create a single painting (the one with the pretty purple lady) and he had apparently spent some time drawing eyebrows and noses extensively from reference as research leading up to his finished piece.
Considering how many pathetic haters the guy has, if he was actually cheating in the way you claim he is, there'd be already about a million comparison images of photos he traced for his illustrations, just like with Kron.
>I'm way worse than him.
If you stay that gullible you're going to stay that bad too.
It's always the bad artists who defend people like algenpfleger, because they want something to believe in.
I'm not the guy who brought the point up oriinally, but now that I see the sketches I'll also have to agree that the intention seems to have been her propping herself up.
There's other ways to "cheat" (just that word shows what an utter fucking moron you are, there is no "cheating" in art) than to trace.
The main problem is people lying about it.
That's the only thing. If you are honest about your process nobody will care if you use reference photos. But if you constantly lie about the ammount of work you do then you are a fraud.
Thats also the only reason why randis got into so much shit, he constantly made absurd claims about using no photo reference for photorealistic paintings.
>google algenpfleger to see what the commotion is about
so this is /ic/'s favourite artist?
Are you for real with this algenpfleger dude?
He mentions no refs used because everything in the picture is made from 90% his imagination. He might have looked at a picture of a plant or a photo of some interior lighting to get an idea of how they look and feel but nothing was copied for the sake of the picture.
This is my speculation. I've met the guy I've seen how he paints and after following him for years I don't see why it's un reasonable to think he's just that good.
You guys need to stop whining about other artists who are infinitely more devoted than you and just try to aim for their level of standard rather than trying to bring it down all the time to make it easier for yourself.
tldr: quit being a bitch and draw.
But that's sort of the point, "using" ref doesn't have to mean you traced it or copied it directly. When most artists talk about using ref they mean they looked up images to help them create the illustration, or parts of it.
I think what most people are hating on is the "I work 20 hours a day, no sleep, 1000 hand drawings, paintings with no ref in 2 days..." self promotion aesthetic that developed in the 2010's in part thanks to Algen which is mostly fabricated BS to promote themselves.
The guy obviously uses ref for his work, either with the studies he did beforehand or images he's looking at as he's working. It doesn't mean he copied the ref directly but to say "I used no ref" for this image makes it seem like you're lying or trying to misrepresent your process.
>You guys need to stop whining about other artists.....
What really needs to stop is morons like yourself who have no defense left against a natural response to something, skepticism, so they tell everyone to stop complaining and get back to work or you'll never make it. Posting on IC for 20 minutes isn't going to stop people from making it so you might as well stop white knighting for Algen you moron, you're obviously here posting just as much.
People only get better than the pros by seeing their work for what it is, addressing the shortcomings and shooting for a higher standard not being a fanboy and just ignoring everything.
>I think what most people are hating on is the "I work 20 hours a day, no sleep, 1000 hand drawings, paintings with no ref in 2 days..." self promotion aesthetic that developed in the 2010's in part thanks to Algen which is mostly fabricated BS to promote themselves.
This power creep in unrealistic bullshit stories stacked on top of each other really got out of control.
>no refs used, stayed up 48 hours on crystal meth, every single pebble in this drawing has realistically simulated ambient occlusion, im just THAT good, I dont even look at photos, also it took me only 2 hours, despite the fact that I NEVER SLEEP
Looks like from legit thread about hardcore photobasher fall into "NO REF NO STUDIES NO SKETCHES NO MODELS HURRR" autism. Poor old masters are shit artists according to some /ic/ kids. Picrelated was drown using models. James Gurney is shit too, because he sculpt for lighting.
The criticism isn't directed at Algen specifically he's just another example, like Irakli, of artists who misrepresent their abilities in order to dupe people into buying shit. Obviously one does it far more than the other but it's deffo something that's taken off since the start of this decade. The whole, "I work 200 hours a day, no ref used, I did this all from imagination so look at me, look at me....Oh and btw, check out my tutes."
Despite the gap in their skillset it doesn't matter if it's Irakli or Algen. Yes Algen can draw and yes he has practiced his ass off but what they're doing is sort of the same. They're misrepresenting their work process/output to make themselves seem more godlike to normies and thus sell things.
If Irakli was just upfront and told people what he was doing to begin with no one would give a shit they'd just accept it as part of his workflow. Of course people would also be generally less impressed with his work and he'd probably get lost in the sea of other artists out there...but at least people wouldn't be hating on him.
Don't misrepresent yourself and most people wont care if you use photos.
You don't get it, do you?
The old masters used models, it was no secret.
THEY DID NOT CLAIM TO HAVE USED NO MODELS OR DRAW EVERYTHING IN AN ABSURDLY FAST TIME.
They took their time, it was a craft and they were truthful about how they did it and when they were secretive they just didnt say anything.
But they didnt make absurd claims about NOT USING MODELS.
NOBODY ON /ic/ HAS A PROBLEM WITH REFERENCE YOU DUMB SHIT.
/ic/ has a problem with people who use reference (like everyone else) but lie about using reference.
His work was better when it looked like he spent longer than 10 minutes painting it. His work as of late has been sloppy looking. Which I suppose plays into the claim he gets them done fast....because it sure looks like it.
I don't get the trend by some of the top tier artist to simplify/sloppify their work. If you can work to a high level just keep it up and you'll get faster and pull in better paying work. Seems lazy to me, like they don't give a shit about what they turn in.
Thats probably because she was the more creative one, he's the study disease one who renders well. His design sense is pretty boring (Example: He enjoys painting kitchens) and uncreative. (relatively speaking compared to his peers.)
>His design sense is pretty boring (Example: He enjoys painting kitchens) and uncreative. (relatively speaking compared to his peers.)
His photorealistic kitchen is one of the most retarded masochistic exercises I've ever seen.
It's not even a nice kitchen or artistically or aesthetically pleasing. It's just a bland modern kitchen from the furniture store.
>I saw him drawing live.
No one said he couldn't draw, people are saying his constant claim of no ref is just bullshit made up to impress newbs enamored with him and thus buy things. Seems to have worked on you. Unless you've watched him paint all his work, in person, it's retarded to claim he uses no ref. No one actually cares if people uses ref, (everyone does) only if they claim not to when they do.
The fact he would want to paint a normal boring kitchen/bathroom/empty room without adding anything fantastical or interesting speaks volumes about his design sense and taste. His fantasy work is boring in my opinion, some have nice compositions and lighting/color but the subject matter is meh. The design of the architecture, costumes, plants, weapon, etc is all just rehashed stuff from real life with little creative embellishment or interesting redesigning. He doesn't really invent anything new, it's like more polished version of alex negrea art, meh.t
Algen's work has gotten incredibly shitty as soon as he stopped working with Janaschi, though. Wonder why.
It says koyorin has been on deviantart for 6 years? 14k watchers doesn't seem too out of the ordinary considering all he does is fanart of popular franchises and his stuff is easy to look at.
Guweiz's 24k isn't really considered popular (50k plust at least on dA) but doing it in 2 years is pretty good. Then again he has a pretty good anime/realism hybrid style that's all the rage nowadays and he has a lot of fan art portraits too which is pretty easy to hit the front page with once you've got a sizable audience.
I've noticed that once you hit about 3-4k active watchers your stuff starts getting into the popular 8/24 hour categories. Some categories are more competitive than others but once you can consistently show up in the front page for those categories your watch count will start to snowball.
That's why a lot of dA artists put their art in the less popular categories in order to get to that front page easier. Some artists even put it in complete wrong categories to hit front page then change it later since its against the rules to do that.
>cute and sexy
If you're a pedophile maybe. Large eyes and small lips, i.e. a "dolly' style is popular in Japan .That should be enough proof that he's a pedo and anyone who defends his work like you have is a pedo.
Basically this. Even if he IS legitimately drawing all of this pixel by pixel, what is the point? So people on the internet can get a boner over your art skill and then..what? You'll get no money for it, and if you can't do anything from imagination, you're going to be limited in your work if you do this professionally even if your client wants a paintover, because all you can do is make young women look like a pedo's dream girl and literally bring nothing else to the piece. Technical skill isn't impressive without creativity as well. It's just boring.
Here's another example why algenpfleger is such a weasly, slimey fraud.
And here's the quick sketch, the one from "imagination" with no reference used.
Which ends up looking more "real" than his photostudies.
Hey and here guys, a plane from imagination.
Lemme just invent a sukhoi fighter plane FROM MY MIND!!!!
In rendering terms, not in subject matter (which would be subjective). But since algenpfleger fans can only think and draw in symbols it's not like they'd understand what people who know their shit are talking about and why algenpfleger is such a fraud for his insistence of drawing everything from the mind.
He copied a Su-27 with a very specific white-red decal pattern and a characteristic Su-27 dorsal fin.
And then he just goes
>planes from imagination
and makes an anime smilie.
Why not just admit to using reference material, when it's this obvious?
Why pretend you "invented that" with "your mind"?
Algenpfleger obviously invented the Su-27 from his MEGAMIND, which caused a rift in time and space and gave the russians that imaginative idea in the first place.
Because who needs engineering when you can have a dude just "imagine" it while he "speedpaints"
>draw su-27 from imagination
>IT'S NOT PLANE FROM IMAGINATION
Does that means you can't draw humans from imagination, because they already exist in real world? Quality shitposting, bruh.
>He copied a Su-27 with a very specific white-red decal pattern and a characteristic Su-27 dorsal fin.
"Using ref" isn't defined as just copying directly from a photo. It's getting together a bunch of images and information to help inform your drawing/painting, not just for the rendering stage but also the sketching and more creative stages of the process. It could also be doing studies beforehand from pictures related to the illustration.
Algen at some point in his process uses ref, maybe not for everything and maybe he doesn't have them open copying them while he draws, but he uses them. Everyone does. I'm to believe that Algen never looks at a related image to a illustration he's about to paint? Honestly that could explain the generic look to his costumes/characters/props.
The "no ref" photo real artist is just a con tricking plebs into idolizing the artists to then sell them shit. The fact he would even mention if he uses ref or not is a cry for attention.
His gf, apparently. When they were together and collabed a lot, Algen's shit looked almost exactly like hers.
Proving his point.
There is su-27s with other decals but the su-27 on Wikipedia has the specific decals he drew.
If he drew them without references he could have chosen any decals. But he chose the one from Wikipedia
>If he drew them without references he could have chosen any decals.
Wut? Planes mostly have same decals pattern. It's not so hard to remember. I have M1 Abrams model and if I draw some tank from imagination I will draw them on same position.
For myself, because i would imagine it might be very satisfying.
For clients of course you are required to use references, no one wants to pay you to come up with random shit from your head.
Are you that jaded with client work that you no longer draw for yourself?
Nah it's ok guys, it's completely legitimate. If it looks like he's just painting over a photo that's just your eyes playing tricks.
Stuff like this makes me want to give up art, professionally at least. Same thing happened with Kron; the fans and hobbyists coming to their defence so readily, denying any wrong doing and saying it's all original and painted by hand, and then when the artist says that yeah, they trace or whatever but that's a legitimate practice, the fans change their tune just to parrot them.
I don't want to be part of an industry where stuff like this and photobashing happens. I don't want fans of this shit to be fans of my actual paintings, I don't even want them to see my work now.
These people aren't "part of the industry". No large corps are hiring these guys (Certainly not regularly) for card art, games art, movie poster work or tv/movie concept jobs because they don't create anything. These guys are just making money from private clients, maybe prints sales and the like.
Even if they are working regularly anyone who talks like you would never make it, so don't worry about it. These "guys" are not the norm and plenty of regular artists get tons of work and recognition. If some niche issue like this is enough to dissuade you then you'd never survive the very real and constant rejection of working in an art field.
Not sure if they dated but yes their work was very similar and then Jana went on to go work for Marko at his studio. Obviously they didn't hire Algen as well, for other reasons maybe, but probably because they saw his work was boring and Jana was the real creative.
He draws boringly designed knights and armor babes. He has the same problem someone like Miles Johnston or Sam Carr have, they study to much from real life and don't develop their imaginative work enough.