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No matter how much I practice trying to draw...
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You are currently reading a thread in /ic/ - Artwork/Critique

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No matter how much I practice trying to draw faces, with pencil, it always turns out like shit, and I draw as light as possible, and I am long passed that symbol drawing shit.

My features always look like shit, and even worse, I can't even get the jaw to look right, one side is always curved differently than the other. What the hell can I do? Practice is useless if I keep doing the same fuckups.
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>>2367379
Draw yourself in the mirror to failure. Multiple angles. H lead pencil. Try not to erase; put down confident lines and ghost them to find the right placement.

And don't forget that all those soft features lie on a solid foundation that is the skull.
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>>2367379
post your work
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Nobody can tell you much if you refuse to post examples.

If you're already aware of what you're doing wrong, try to practice those factors in isolation. If your feature placement is fine, do some studies of just the features. Draw a bunch of simple heads and work on the jaws, etc. Do a full portrait on occasion to apply it all at once though.
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not OP sorry to derail -
did this drawing in about 20 minutes and the dream is to be a pro someday
how much pain am i in for
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My 20 min sketch today.
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>>2367554
learn to take measures and avoid lines

faces are all about subtleties, for example placing an eye half an inch to the side or making up a line around the lips is the opposite of what you want
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>>2367558
thanks man - i've learned the concept of everything in a drawing being a measure of value before, but after a few years of working in mostly pen/doodling it's slipped away.
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>>2367556
i can't give the best advice but what the first reply said is solid - think about what the skulls underneath would have to look like in order to make the faces you draw. don't go out of control with multiple utensils for a single drawing in a sketchbook if all you're doing is locking down facial features. just a simple pencil'll do the job just fine. lay down the foundation of the face before thinking about anything special like lips, eyelids, etc.
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>>2367554

Even if you got those eyes spot on they'd probably look weird as shit drawn, because they look weird as shit.
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>>2367574
thanks - i mean i just drew the pic and put it away for a few days - looking at it in comparison to the photo is pretty jarring - somewhere along i pushed the mouth way too close up to the nose, like that's not just my potato that took the pic, it really looks like i made her smug in the drawing.
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>>2367543
I'm not refusing anything, I just don't have my scanner at the moment.


My lines/curves which are supposed to be symmetrical are never that. And i'm beginning to wonder why the fuck I'm trying. cuz if I try to fix it, I just make it worse.

This is only a quick sketch, but my head/curves/etc are always off, and if I can't even get the base down, wtf can I do?
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>>2367625

>I am long passed that symbol drawing shit

just admit it. you didn't try, did you?
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>>2367758

The eyebrow I just threw on there.

I drew the eye in 3d..

I didn't draw that stupid goldfish shape.
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>>2367784

You better be trolling
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>>2367788

alright then, whats "wrong" with the eye? Seeing as I am doing exactly what these "professionals" are doing. I just didn't bother shading.
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>>2367556
This just looks like it lacks construction, understanding of the forms underneath, etcetera etcetera. Not just anatomically wise, but from a 3-dimensional standpoint as well, and that you won't learn in one day or one week. But practice a lot of it, shapes in 3d space and the anatomy ad proportions that makes your head look like a head, at the moment you sound quite frustrated so I honestly wish you the best and hope you improve a lot! you'll get gud and have fun drawing beautiful faces anon, you can do it nigga. Godspeed!
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I mean I've looked through loomis' shit, proko, vilppu, I know how to draw in 3D. Yet all my stuff still looks like shit.
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>>2367802

lol
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No wonder /ic/ has gone to shit, it's been overrun by faggots who don't provide any insight at all.
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>>2367808

>implying OP is not shitposting
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>>2367812

I'm not "shitposting". I'm looking for legitimate help and I just get niggers like you doing the shitposting. Instead of actually telling me what is off. You just post bullshit. Kill yourself.
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>>2367808
Except it's always been shit. You're not entitled to anything here. Lurk more, fuqboi.
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>>2367813

We can't help you until you admit that you are still symbol drawing.
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>>2367819

But I'm not...
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I left out the shading because thats my problem, no matter how light i start out it still looks like shit.
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>>2367802
...are you sure? have you at least practiced enough? maybe all you need is mileage. Sure, if someone shows you and explains you how to dance, you might think you understand it but you won't actually be a good dancer until you practice a fuckton. However, I still doubt you even undertand what you have watched, because if you watched Proko's almost foolproof, carefully explained and detailed videos on the skull/head/face/etc and you still draw a profile craneum like a goddamn squished balloon with a completely curved jawline, then you just didn't pay attention.
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Did you not read my first message? This is my issue. I can not draw oval objects/curved lines/etc symmetrically for shit. Thats why I asked for fucking help in terms of getting the base laid down correctly, seeing as no amount of fucking practice is seemingly doing me any good on that front. I can keep trying over and over but it still results in the same fucked up head look.
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>>2367829
Alright, sorry, I've never met someone with such an issue before but let's all use our brains and try to not be useless for once with advice. There are certain things you could do to better you control of drawing freaking curves, what instantly comes to mind to me is that you should watch Peter Han's Dynamic Sketching video if you haven't already. A big part of that class is excercises on drawing straight lines, ellipses, and such. Another thing you could do is maybe trace a shitload of photos or even drawings, so much that your muscles just memorize what actually good lines are like. I don't know man, I'm just an anon, maybe it works for you or maybe my hypothesis is wrong.
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>>2367838

I'm not OP but people like you are truly pathetic.
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>>2367840
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>>2367842

You would benefit humanity by jumping off a bridge.
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>>2367843
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Is there ANYONE on /ic/ that isn't a trolling faggot?
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>>2367845
I'm here
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>>2367791
topkek
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>>2367845

OP would not have received all the shit he has gotten if he came in with a humble attiude and some self awareness. He has a lot of ego and arrogance that needs to be torn down. It's actually for his own good in the long run, we can't help him as long as he thinks he knows shit.
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>>2367849

I know I have a lot of work to fucking do, but telling me I still symbol draw is a load of horse shit. I draw with the form in mind and it just fucking looks symbol-ly because I didn't bother shading it correctly, because I am using just a regular pencil and I am not very good with shading right now.

But of course I just get trolled and nobody listens.

I've drawing enough fucking 3D shapes. I'm passed the symbol drawing horse shit.
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I mean I can't even get the base for the fucking head down correctly because I can't draw anywhere near a perfect circle, and when I get anything close it turns into a smushed mess.
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>>2367852

You haven't drawn "enough" 3d shapes, you have barely even started. If you actually had bothered to look at most demo drawings Vilppu does you would have noticed that they do not need shading to show good structure and form. And yes you are symbol drawing. You are not drawing what you see, but rather in symbols. Your drawn eye is the quintessal symbol drawn eye, the fact that you refuse to admit it tells me you are suffering from a extreme case of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
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>>2367860

I am drawing exactly what I fucking see, enough with that horse shit. I'm not refusing to admit anything because I am not fucking symbol drawing. I am doing exactly what Proko is fucking doing. So he must be symbol drawing as well. I am doing everything he is doing, exactly.
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What the fuck do I have to do to prove I'm passed that symbol drawing bullshit, draw another million fucking cubes and waste my time?
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>>2367861

Okay, here I have put your drawing next to Proko's drawing of an eye. It has no shading, so you can't use that as an excuse. Are you telling me your eye has the same sense of depth of volume? Are you SURE you are doing exactly what he is doing?
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>>2367861
Sorry anon, you're shit. Plain and simple. You'll never make it.
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>>2367870
Kill yourself
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>>2367869

his is a completely different view, for one. Two, what the hell is missing from mine. Aside from shading, what the hell do I do, I added the "planes". And yet I still get accused of symbol drawing. The eyebrow was just a quick throw on, as was the line above the eye. Do I have to draw another one and actually take a minute to prove I'm passed this horse shit?
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>>2367875

post more drawings please
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Ugh whats the point, it still fucking looks flat no matter what I do, curved forms kill me and no amount of practice I get in helps.

I just draw another fucking eye and it looks flat as fuck without shading, and its a straight on view.
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>>2367886

You have to be willing to accept that it might take you a few years of very solid practice to become decent from here on. Are you willing to put in that time?
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>>2367889

I've got tons of resources but I seemingly can't progress for shit. I've got no problem putting time in if shit actually progresses. But all the time I put in just leaves me in the same goddamn spot.

Drawing a ton of fucking cubes/cones/cylinders again isn't going to get me anywhere. Whenever I've tried drawing a still life in classes, my angles are always off, my proportions are always off, even with measuring methods. It's fucking frustrating that I can't get anywhere.
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>>2367893

So how long have you been drawing seriously?
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>>2367897

I keep dropping on/off because of this shit, any time I keep trying to practice I just stay stagnant. Practicing is useless if you keep doing the exact same thing. I plan on following drawabox.com but I don't know how much good it will do. You can only draw so many cubes/cylinders.
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>>2367898

You didn't answer my question. How long have you been drawing? How many years?
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>>2367900

I've never really drawn "seriously" or consistently. So I guess you can't really put "years" on that. I've just tried doing this off and on for under a decade now. I don't practice daily even though I know I should, but I don't because it's always crap/never improves. Curves are always shit, etc.
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>>2367901
You still didn't really provide the other anon with enough information for it to be useful. Stop using vague terms. How much do you actually practice? A 30 minute attempt roughly every month, or what?

In any case, stop whining, start drawing. Evaluate drawings the next day for mistakes to work on. Repeat. That is all. Draw shit until it isn't shit anymore.
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>>2367901


>I've never really drawn "seriously" or consistently.

Well there you have it, anon.
You are not going to get any big muscles if you never work out seriously and visit the gym only once in a while either.
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Well where exactly do I pick up. Just draw shit from life? If I have to draw another cube/cylinder by themselves I'm going to go looney.

And what can I do about proportions/angles? My jawlines are never symmetrical, neither are my eyes, ones always bigger than the other, etc. And I go to fix it it just gets worse.
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>>2367925

Had that problem too, I couldn't draw a face in front view to save my life. I also had a lot of problems with hand writing in school growing up to the point where my teachers had to talk with my parents as my letters were growing like cancerous tumours all over the page lol. But I got over it after years of practice. You really just need more mileage. Draw from life and from imagination. Do the Betty Edwards exercises
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>>2367925
dude if you're so whiney and hesitant to put in the least bit of effort, i really don't think drawing is for you.

do you have any artists that you look up to? any goals? what's your motivation?
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>>2367974

why must people use that "this isn't for you" bullshit.

I never said I wasn't willing to put in the effort, pisses me off when people put words in my fucking mouth.

No, I don't really, I just want to be able to paint and draw and mainly do character art.
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>>2367976
i said IF you are really as you seem to be coming off as, you shouldn't be getting into art.

if you don't have any plans to be professional then do whatever the hell you want, and make sure you're having fun.

this is a board full of people wanting to become professional in their skills. people with a better than average eye for what makes a good and bad drawing. some of us put in 8+hours a day drawing. what you posted looks like it took maybe 2 minutes for the average adult (being very generous). you can't expect to hold up to the standards of this board doing such little work, or expect to get anywhere with drawing.

i really do implore you to spare 1 hour every day to building your drawing skills, go through the sticky and you will get the basic skills you want in maybe 2-4 years. if you aren't willing to do even that, then don't expect to have anyone else appreciate your art.
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>>2367838
kek
>>2367840
I'unno, it made me laff
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>>2367791
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How the hell do I stop this crap from looking flat even without shading? I make sure to draw everything in 3D, wrapping around the "ball" of the eye, yet it still looks flat as fuck with the brow ridge and everything. I don't know what the hell the issue is.
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>>2368192
post the fucking drawing faggot
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>>2368195
Read the fucking thread faggot; he already posted a drawing.

Anywhere here you go op

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKFfSl-EBfI
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>>2368192
> I make sure to draw everything in 3D, wrapping around the "ball" of the eye, yet it still looks flat as fuck

You can say this as often as you like, but if what you draw looks flat, then you don't understand the proper 3 dimensional form of it. This shit isn't magic, if it looks wrong, you are doing something wrong. Why do you insist that you are doing it right but for some unexplainable reason it ends up looking wrong?

Just post some proper head drawings of yours where we can see how you draw the head and eyes in perspective and we can tell you immediately what you're doing wrong. What you posted before indicates that you simply don't understand head construction in general.
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>>2368209

oh for fucks sake, I understand how to draw 3D form. Why it's looking flat I don't know. But to say I don't fucking know how to draw a 3D form is bullshit. I've drawn enough spheres, cubes, and cones to know that thats bullshit.

Anyway, in the hours since drawing that abomination, i've just doodled random crap out of irritation in between playing games.

Most of these are garbage/fuck ups that I didn't bother to erase, the circled eye, and the eye on the big head are the only 2 good eyes I drew (if you can consider them that, i'll probably get shit on for them, too)
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>>2368222
Drawing cubes and spheres doesn't mean you understand 3D space. Your sketches aren't really showing an understanding of the planes of the face. The shape of the nose for example is completely wrong.
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>>2368233

Like i said, the nose sketches and most of those are just throwaway/irritation drawings/fuck ups.I wouldn't call that nose good or anything.

As for proper head drawings, thats an issue. I can't draw a proper head for shit, the jaw is always fucked, if I can even get a base circle down for the skull for the loomis method.
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>>2368222
>>2368224
Yeah, you might understand 3d forms, but you sure have no idea how to render them.
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>>2368247

thank you, it's about time someone understood.
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this thread is fucking hilarious
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>>2368252
Dude. I think I suck, but you... You're in a different plane of not understanding. I drew for a year and a half, 2 pages per day, minimum, every day, before I even came close to understanding form. Acting like a decade of drawing "on and off" comes even close to my amount of effort is insulting. It sounds like you doodle in the corners of your pages for work every once in a while. Put in the work or stop fucking complaining. Form comes before proportion, understand how light works before even trying to make a borderline human face.
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>>2367838
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>>2368222
>I understand how to draw 3d form
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>>2367838

this can't be real
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>>2367843
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>>2367838
i kek'd but
why'd you have to do him like that anon
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OP, this is going to be the most important thing you do all day.

Draw us a box in two point perspective, draw through the object to show ALL sides.
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>way past symbol drawing
>I drew it in 3d
>I am doing exactly what those professional are doing by without shading

Nigga you best be shitposting
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OP is give us so much stuff to laugh, thanks OP.
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>>2367886
you keep saying the planes are there, but I'm not sure you're understanding what those really are. you honestly and truly want help? here's a simple exercise.

draw spheres and cylinders
draw rectangular prisms wrapping around them
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>>2367802
>I know how

Abstract knowledge is different from practical knowledge.

You may abstractly understand what you're supposed to do, but it's clear you haven't translated that abstraction into step by step concrete "this is how it should feel when I do this to make this happen" experiential knowledge

You need to practice more and build your awareness of the problem.
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>>2367898
Tradional jap drawing instruction begins with YEARS of practice drawing ONLY bamboo, before one is encouraged to draw people or environments. You need to drill down the basic movements of the task until they live in your body. If you're stuck thinking about how to hold the pencil or how to move your arm to make that line you'll never be able to compose a harmonious picture. All that stuff needs to be like breathing.

You probably think you've done much more than you actually have.

How many sketchbooks have you filled
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>>2368222
>oh for fucks sake, I understand how to draw 3D form.
Thanks for the keks man.
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This is what happens when you fall for the "Loomis is a meme" meme.
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Ebin bread op
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>>2368222
What kind of 3d world do you live in , anon? seems avante garde as fuck.
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Do this stuff for a couple hours a day op, you'll thank me later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgDNDOKnArk
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>>2367791
Thanks for the laugh, anon.
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>>2368222
>that nose
YEP, THIS IS A RUSE. There is absolutely no way a person can be over 10 years old, watch proko/vilppu/loomis/etc, "know how to render 3d and be long past symbol drawing" yet draw that fucking nose which is -and I'm being serious here- exactly like how my little 7 y/o brother draws noses. Since the second nose here >>2368224 is "better", I am lead to believe you greatly exaggerated your shittyness when drawing the first nose, let's say your fake lack of skill is inconsistent. Good show OP, I chuckled. I'll give you props for being quite original, any random anon would've just posted an awful kiddy drawing and said "critique pls, I think I'm doing very good so far".
This board is kinda slow and mostly repetitive, which is ironic for a creative field of work such as art, so fairly creative OC threads like you are always a bless and a laugh to spark some life in here.
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>> Comes back to thread hours later
>> nothing but shitposting towards OP

Yeah, no wonder people don't come here, this place is full of retards.
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>>2369047

OP is a full of himself shithead with a massive ego, he is like one of those horrible singers that go on talent shows and think they are amazing and then throw tantrums when the judges tell them the truth.
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>>2368675

I don't need that, I'm passed that, it's drawing/rendering 3D that I need to work on.

But meh, so much for getting any legit help on this board.
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>>2369207
You're not passed a god damn thing famila
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>>2369212

fuck off, I don't need to work on hand steadiness, get lost you fucking greaseball spic.
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>>2369207
No you're not "past that" you ign'int ass nigga, by your own admission:

>I can't draw a proper head for shit, the jaw is always fucked, if I can even get a base circle down for the skull for the loomis method.

Along with some other similar shit you've said in this thread.

You have a hard time controlling your pencil and that's obvious looking at any of the pictures you've posted. You need to drill that hard, because the easier it is for you to put your hand where you need it the more your results will match up with how you think they should, the faster you'll be able to draw and the less frustrating grinding through mistakes will be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMC0Cx3Uk84
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>>2369217

>2016
>listening to anything a monkey says
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>>2369215
Can you please just draw a cube in perspective? Draw through so we can see all the sides and it will be really help us in gauging your understanding of form building.
Also, are you using reference? From the way your nose looks pretty symboly. It's possib that you've moved past symbol drawing but don't really have the visual information required to draw a nose. Just remember that if you want to get good you have to put in hours, try to ignore shut posts as well because if you react then they'll only do it more.
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>>2369221

Fine, give me a bit, but as usual you didn't listen. The nose was just a random fucking doodle/nothing serious, it wasn't intended to be my "real" attempt at a damn nose.
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>>2369223

Can we meet up irl and fight? No gloves, no groin shots and eye pokes. Everything else fair though.
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>>2369223
I understand it's frustrating when you try really hard and don't get the results you want in art man, I've definitely been there, however, you have to humble yourself. Atleast when you're asking for advice like this, because if you're not nice then people are just gonna start tearing your art a part without offering you any help. And then no one wins.
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>>>2369215
You need to work on literally everything. Your lines are trash buddy
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>>2369234

considering they were fucking doodles and rushed, of course they're going to be...

god you people are fucking retarded
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>>2369237
Why would you post rushed doodles? We can only judge how good you are based on what you post and if you're saying what you posted isn't your best work than post something that is.
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>>2369239

Is drawing on a flat surface a bad idea, as opposed to having the page angled/upright?

It seems to me like drawing flat makes things difficult, but it might just be me.
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>>2369237
Why did you post rushed doodles then

Oh wait because it's your best work.

Either accept that despite your "10 years" of practice, you're at square fucking one or fuck on off. Line quality and artistic knowledge doesn't go away when you doodle.
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>>2367625
m8 you're still symbol drawing. don't be delusional, go back to drawing on the right side of the brain
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>>2369253
I think it's preference but drawing in an angled surface is probably best for when you're doing large scale works.
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>>2369220
You're right, seeing as you're here complaining I should have known better; you obviously already have it all figured out. I can really tell from all those scratchy, shitty lines with everything you've drawn so far.
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>>2369272
>tfw brown
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>>2369280
..n-nothin' personal fãm!
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>>2369217
Not that guy, but is the over hand grip that important? can I just switch between the normal tripod grip and over hand grip for different lines?
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>>2369295
That's what you're supposed to do, yeah. For the record it doesn't work with tablets worth a damn, though if you're doing digital you should follow along with that Peter Han video using a ten or mechanical pencil.
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OP, who are you trying to fool? Your frustration is only coming from your own stubbornness. The fact of the matter is you ARE still symbol drawing, you haven't demonstrated the slightest knowledge of the fundamentals at all. You have poor line disciple which if you had, like you claim, you would have no issue to "draw oval objects/curved lines/etc symmetrically", but like you said yourself you're struggling to do so. You think shading is your issue when shading is the least of your problems.

You need a serious attitude adjustment towards the drawing process.When asked for examples of your work you "doodled" which shows you're lazy and can't be bothered to do things properly. Lazily putting lines down and giving yourself excuses is only going to get you nowhere. However amount you practiced, or think you practiced, it hasn't been nearly enough.

People have given you the solutions to your problems and you've spat in there hand; How can you expect any help when you can't even help yourself?

If you are genuine, put together something you're proud of, no more of this doodle crap; If you can't be bothered to do so, then you can't be helped and will be doom to redundancy.

If you want something to draw:

Draw a hand anticipating a doorknob.
Draw a room in two point perspective room with a door, a desk, a bottle or can, a chair and a window.
>>
>>2369295
Overhand is best for long flowing lines, but tripod serves better for little details
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>>2369306

Even if I do draw something that I take my time on it'll still get shit on just based on the fact on how this thread has gone.
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>>2369306
Based
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>>2369312
Welcome to /ic/. Learn to analyze feedback and stop being a little bitch.
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>>2369312
You were asked to draw a cube like thirty times and you said you would, where is it? At this point you're either shitposting or scared that you're art isn't as good as you say it is. It should take you like 3 minutes max for that cube.
>>
>>2369312
Yes, you're probably right dude but you are at least partially to blame for that yourself; try not to get your ego hurt when people talk shit. Just take what information from this thread you can, practice a bit, and come back to make a new thread or better yet hang out in the beginner thread for a while.
>>
>>2368224
>>2368222

I'm fucking dying. LOL. Dude, you need to go back2basics. Loomis, Drawing for the Right Side Of Your Brain, whatever beginner book you LIKE reading. Hit it again, and again, and again.
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>>2369329

yet again another faggot who doesnt read the whole thread
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>>2369331
>I am past that symbol drawing shit
>I understand 3d
>I sit at da big boys table.

Call me a faggot all you want, I didn't come in here saying I am "beyond the basics" and post child level drawings. That nose shows you CLEARLY have no fucking clue what 3d is. That eye that is, "Just like Proko's" is also dog shit.

You can keep being pooper peeved, but look at that girl in this thread. Asked for feedback, stayed humble, got good, real feedback.
>>
thanks for the laughs op
>>
>>2369272
you mouth is too high go back to basics nooby. His left side goes outwards too much.
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>>2369334

I clearly said that nose wasn't a serious drawing, learn to fucking read retard.
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>>2369343
You're beyond help OP. /ic/ is usually shit but you've had so many people come in this thread and be respectful to you but you just act like a douche. You're either a master troll or a dumb ass, maybe the reason drawing on the right side of the brain didn't work for you is because you don't have a brain.
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>>2369347
>maybe the reason drawing on the right side of the brain didn't work for you is because you don't have a brain.

ayyy!
>>
>>2369343
>>2369343

>>2369343
>>2369343
>I've drawn enough spheres, cubes, and cones to know that thats bullshit.
Clearly you haven't done this. Stop lying on this board, your work shows this to be true.

>I've just doodled random crap out of irritation in between playing games
DING DING DING! Here is why your work is worse than dogshit. Serious I could get my parrot and he could outdraw your dumbass.

Want to get better? PUT IN THE FUCKING EFFORT. You come in here, and tell people who have spent YEARS learning the basics of this craft that you, "Get it." Bitch about the FREE help people give, and the HAVE THE FUCKING AUDACITY TO TELL US THAT ISN'T A SERIOUS DRAWING!? If you came into my woodworking class with this attitude I would beat you to death with a fucking block plane.

Why did you post it if it isn't serious? Why are you coming and asking for critique if you aren't posting serious shit? Why should we spend our time trying to help you when you can't respect that and post some serious fucking work?

I know now that this was a fucking bait. Stay shitty OP, hopefully after a few years of being a complete faggot you will do the world (and your parents) a favor and kill yourself.
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>>2369343
ok thanks for the laugh but let me level with you like everyone has already tried.
draw more plain and simple, after you fill up a sketchbook or something like 100 pages front to back with quick sketches of gestures and not just lines, you will see more of how to imply with your line instead of trying to draw detail with your lines and a shit ton of trial and error. if you really want to learn, its there for you in books and critical practice. helped me a lot and im sure a lot of other anons really learned from them too

stop calling everyone retards, it just makes this funnier. don't let everyone shake your cool. and every drawing reflect how you draw, dont try to hide behind the "i didn't even try" thing, please im dying of laughter.
>>
>>2369354
>Stay shitty OP, hopefully after a few years of being a complete faggot you will do the world (and your parents) a favor and kill yourself.

Rude to be honest family
>>
>>2369347

theres been almost no respect in this thread towards me, bullshit.

I know how to fucking draw 3D, I just can't render it right,I know how to draw to look like it has fucking depth. Yet instead of people telling me exactly what the issue is. I get "lol you don't know how to draw in 3D you symbol drawing faggot".

Is it the fucking line weight making it appear symbolly. Enough with the symbol drawing bullshit and tell me what the fuck the issue is.

>>2369354
Clearly you know everything about me. I have fucking done that. That "work" is just nonsense/no effort.

There has been no "respect" in this thread towards me and its been nothing but trolling faggotry
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>>2369359
I am past the point of caring, or wanting to help this fuck. People gave real advice, real critique and he was a snotty little cunt about it.

"I don't post my real dank drawings in here. You can critique my scraps." Fuck him.
>>
>>2369360
Yeah, the show is over folks. OP is about as retarded as they come.
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>>2369360
you can't draw 3D forms. If you think you can, you're deluding yourself and you won't improve until you acknowledge your shortcomings.

If you suck it up and put some effort into a drawing, then I will personally offer you an in-depth crit without shitting on you.
>>
>>2369361
haha yeah he wants "respect" for his "eye" on /ic/
>>2369360
the issue is you need to change your attitude and look through these "trolling" comments and LEARN like everyone is trying to do. you cant be TOLD how to draw you learn it on your own
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lets make this thread productive and post eyes.

POST EM IF YA GOT EM. ENOUGH REPLYING TO BAITCHAN
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>>2369364

If I can't draw 3D forms then how the fuck can I DRAW SO MANY FUCKING SPHERES/CUBES/CONES.
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>>2369368
More symbol drawing in the thread, lawl
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ill post one because i love op.
be a troll or actual butthurt kid. i want to post one thing more
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>>2369372
I don't think you know what that means but this is cheap bait anyways.
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>>2369312

That's a shame, Anon. I don't ever want to deter anyone from drawing. I like to tell you to put some honest effort into some drawings, both fundamental and things you're interested in. Drawing is a LIFETIME commitment you really need to know if this is what you want; There's no formula, book/video or class you can graduate from and come out with everything you need to know.

Typically, people who enjoy all of what makes a drawing are the ones who stick around, but that's not to say anything else can drive your passion. It takes years to get the basics down and then the real 'learning' happens outside the classroom.

Threads take quite a bit of time to die on this board use that time to draw and make a post in the beginner thread sometime down the road. Despite the name, people of all levels use those threads, make use of them.

Don't give up, OP; We've all been there frustrations at all.
>>
>>2369312

You should wonder who's to blame for that. Protip: it's not the people genuinely trying to help you, and it's not the few shitposters either.
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>>2369378

Oh I know what it means, and based off OPs 1 eye, this is the exact same thing.
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>>2369389
heres your (you)
>>
>>2369373
aylmao spotted on top left.
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>>2369369
There comes a point as an artist, probably after a couple of years, where you start automatically placing objects in 3D space using perspective and form. I can tell from your "doodles" that you aren't there yet. Any beginner can draw cubes and cylinders, but only intermediate/advanced artists will grasp how those forms relate to something like an eye or a figure.

But as I said, draw something substantial and I'll give you more feedback.
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>>2367840

>I'm not OP


Hahahaha
>>
Id do the cube thing but my scanner is acting up.

What is done so a drawing looks 3D without the shading? Is it the line weight?

Whenever I attempt to draw anything spherical in 3D I make sure to "wrap around the object to add depth, etc. But as everyone has been ripping me a new one for, it doesn't seemingly pan out. Even when drawing the top/bottom planes of lids, etc.
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>>2369360
>I know how to draw to look like it has fucking depth.
I hope for your sake you're shitposting.
Because if you aren't then you should really get off your high horse and fucking realize you and your drawings are dogshit.
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>>2369360
Thanks for the kek's OP.
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>>2369695
You have little to no control over the marks you make and this is a combination of you not being familiar enough with manipulating your utensil and you not really understanding what you're trying to draw, Betty Edwards and Bert Dodson will help you out there as their books get you comfortable making marks and understanding where and why you're making those marks.
Once you are comfortable with making marks and putting down lines you take that skill and you learn proper perspective which is depicting objects in space and this is your meat and potatoes because this affects literally everything you draw in a multitude of ways and what gives the illusion of depth.

Take things in stride, progress with drawing is measured in months and years rather than days and weeks and when I say drawing I mean actually sitting down and both working and being proactive with what you're doing. You won't see progress in a day, you will see it over months if you stay consistent and stay focused. Stay humble and keep drawing every day.

Faggot
>>
>>2369925
beautiful
>>
Hey there OP...so for starters I think it would do you good to work through the Bargue Drawing Course. This will really train your eye hand coordination and it is a course that has been completed by world class artists such as Picasso and Van Gogh. You can just go to google to find a pdf of the course and I would advise spending a long time working your way through that.

Secondly, I hear you are having trouble controlling the pencil/pen and free handing symmetrical ellipses. For this I advise you practice the exercises laid out in Peter Han's Dynamic Sketching Class for learning the basics of controlling the Pen. The first week is free on YouTube and you can use that video to learn the fundamentals of controlling the pen. Remember that this is a very had skill to master and it can take over a year of constant practice before the pen/pencil truly becomes second nature to you. A link to that video can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3971zJW9VHI

Finally, Draw A Box would be a good thing to work through. It covers similar things to the dynamic sketching but I advise you really take the time working through those exercises. The 250 Cube and 250 Cylinder Challenges will really train your arm to draw efficiently and after a lot of constant practice, you will eventually master drawing ellipses and lines free hand which is the first step to achieving the results you are after.

Finally, stay optimistic, keep working at it and most of all be patient. It takes a long time to achieve a good standard of drawing and remember everyone has to go through what you are going through now to get where they wanna be! Good luck OP :) !
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>>2368222
>>
>>2369310
So tripod for shit like anatomy?
>>
>>2370767
there aren't any set rules it's all about what works best for you. some people only use overhand, others hold it like theyre writing and some mix it up depending on what they're doing or what they're using
>>
>>2368224
Have some respect for yourself and the ones you ask for attention, come on now.
>>
>>2367875

Draw a circle with an x that curves on it's surface and post it here.
>>
>>2369360
>I know how to fucking draw 3D, I just can't render it right,I know how to draw to look like it has fucking depth.

You know what is needed to draw in 3d. You know what people do to draw images that have depth, but you yourself do not have the SKILL of doing this yourself; therefore you do not know how to do any of that.

I know HOW to do calculus, but I am unable to do calculus.
>>
>>2367820
And if you really believe that, you can fuck off
>>
>>2367898
>Practicing is useless if you do the same thing.

Not only are you so far up your ass that you can't see your problems and accept them, but you're also completely braindead.
>>
You don't need talent to practice.
>>
>>2370961
Pretty much this.

Even if you have know how from reading books, you still need to practice and grind the living shit out of it. Know how=/= really knowing.
>>
>>2369368
I love I's :3
>>
>>2367379
I believe you simply dont have enough mileage with making marks and studying textures

try doing this lesson on drawbox the texture one

http://drawabox.com/lesson/2

Not sure what yall opinion is on this website but some of these lessons are really good.
>>
>>2368407
does anbody else cringe at his jokes?
>>
>>2371057
i dunno this video got me pretty good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdxGz3KPPyo
>>
>>2371057
compare his videos to vilppu and it's easy to see why he's being so cheesy.
>>
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>this thread
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>>2371220
the thumbnail on that image is fucked up http://i.4cdn.org/ic/1454005483410s.jpg
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>>2367574
they dont look that weird drawn.
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>>2371514
>>
this entire thread belongs here
>>2359602
>>
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>>2371588
there, fixed.
>>
>>2367845
hahaha
>>
>>2369360
the issue is that you're still symbol drawing
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>>2375306

I don't draw the outline of the object or something stupid like that. I try to draw around the object as if it was in 3D space. So what the hell is the problem? Is it the lineweight?

Someone said prokos looks 3D without shading, yet I do the same thing and it's somehow symbol drawing. So what the hell is the issue.
>>
You render your drawings without volume. You're focusing on the surface rendering of an object, rather than drawing an object convincingly. Symbol drawing is just that, surface rendering without understanding the volume underneath it.
>>
>>2375506

how exactly do I remedy this
>>
>>2375419
The problem is that you claim to be on a certain level of knowledge and skill without actually proving it. What's worse is that you don't even bother to put in the effort needed for us to make an accurate evaluation.
>>
>>2375511
One exercise - yes, it'll involve cubes and spheres a bit - is to pick an image with high contrast light and shadow. Just draw in the areas of shadow. If you have to outline it first, do that while watching the proportions. It could be a portrait or image of a house, throw it through a photocopier and fill in the areas of black. These are exercises, so keep practising this. Avoid going into line work too early, so start from large areas to small.

If your faces and features are lopsided while you draw, get a pocket mirror and put it right beside your drawing. Look at the reflected image to see how much you need to adjust back to the centre of the skull.

Tip, get a darker pencil, draw bigger features, fill your pages. Don't snap at critique. You need some more direction and feedback but listen to the messages, not the tone they are delivered in.
>>
>>2375547
If I sound spastic, its because I have the flu right now.
>>
>>2375513

Ok yes I have a lot of work to do. I just tried drawing a cube in 2 pt perspective and completely forgot how to do it correctly.

I don't know if I will ever have good steady hand control with enough practice either. My shit always wobbles regardless of speed.

Is doing nothing but life drawing/still lifes going to help me get this form shit down?

I've got all these resources to work with, but meh.

I know it's a process.
>>
>>2375547

proportions/perspective seem to be another major killer. I've used the pencil/thumb measuring method but somehow my drawings still manage to come out lopsided in size/too small, etc. And in my art class we are just told to draw the subject, no real "teaching" going on for a 101 class.
>>
>>2375551
Drawing from life/stills isn't necessarily the only way, but it's the most helpful in regards of showing you actual three-dimensional form.
>>2375556
Most art classes aren't entry-level, and require a basic understanding of the fundamentals for anyone to benefit from them at all.
>>
>>2375556
Train yourself into a mode of observing height/width/depth by comparison. This is why a fruit bowl is a common still life exercise. When you look at the arrangement of the fruit, don't try measuring it exactly. Just think 'that apple is 1/3rd bigger than the plum, but is hidden behind the banana'. Draw it lightly like you were taking an x-ray of the whole thing, but darken your lines around the areas you can see in front of you. Again, its practise. Comparing h/w/D in objects can be applied to figure drawing later with practise. Have you considered using a plumb line?

Pity, I've found a lot of great resources on this board. Just know what your goals are and which artists inspire you, it'll reflect on the standards you want to set for yourself.
>>
>>2375562
But I agree with Anon here. If you're still splashing about with entry level work and feigning satisfaction with your progress, then I'd naturally assume you're not hungry enough for art. No wonder you're being shot down.
>>
>>2375563

My goals are mainly to be able to draw character art for comics, concept art, etc.

I want to do a lot of creative shit but I seemingly don't have a sliver of creativity/talent/drive.

Drawing
Painting
3D Modeling
Writing

all this shit takes time/effort/talent. Balancing it all seems impossible, especially for someone like me who seemingly bitches more than he practices/tries.

>>2375570
My thing is, i give up too easily unless I see results that I want to see. And I don't have the experience to get those results so I give up too quick.
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>>2375576
I think, by admitting you need more help, this answers your original post. Only stop drawing on pain of death, Anon. Work harder, study smarter. Overlap the things you want to do.

>>2367625
You can still make comic book pages etc from the likes of this, just draw things out fully in context. Better to have a goal than pick at things you *might* need.
>>
>>2375589

another thing bugging me is. I've seen people do amazing shading work using just lines/line weight to bring the form out, . Any time I try to replicate, it comes out looking like utter shit. I've got drawing pencils but it seemingly makes no difference.

We were drawing apples in the one class, and this one chick was amazing, For some reason my lines looked like shit. Meh

I've still got that crappy drawing in my portfolio, but it's a big page, too big to scan.
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>10 years later OP returns to /ic/
>"hi I'm 25, is it too late for me to take art seriously?"

>>2369695
>Id do the cube thing but my scanner is acting up.

You can literally do this in MS paint with the line tool. No freehand necessary.
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