*yawns* >OP is a faggot Lern 2 quickly summarize a scenario or drawing. >build your 'grid' for perspective >juxtapose objects of interest >finalize textures and details
Although, I do admit, that's a dopely detailed drawing for 4 hrs. Good building perspective (likely a pre-made, traceable template) and good flowing motion of the ONE subject in this scene: a fantasy centipede. >OP considers this speed drawing high art bc One Punch Mahn >see first greentext
>>2363300 Like what? The unclean lines? The stiff poses? The lack of line weight or originality? The fact he's using basic shapes for everything? The off perspective? The horrible anatomy? This is beginner who spends way too much time on 1 drawing tier.
>>2363313 "For what it is" means nothing unless you say what it is. >I like Michaelangelo's art for what it is. Is not the same meaning. Considering you're talking down to the 2 people saying it's bad, the implications become that you think his drawing is good, and it is absolutely not.
>>2363319 >Is not the same meaning. A picture is worth 1000 words. You can look at Michaelangelo's art and say "I like it for what it is" and people will understand you. Same with the anon's art; it may not be technically impressive in terms of skill but you can see passion. The fact that he posted his work was admirable as well.
>>2363626 I have no time for the internet, kiddo I work my ass off all day and the little hours I have left, I'm drawing and checking e-mails, I check /ic/ 2 days per week only I don't know why you took my question as an offense tho, I asked it only because the art looks good.
>>2363663 Thanks for explaining, I'm not really into animes but the art looks good
I can imagine his approach to that drawing. A lot to hold in your head to spew it forth at one go,but being used to drawing full time at speed is fundamental to accomplishing the feat. Plot out where the main figure is,cram in background in the negative space,and alow for the overlayed lettering,and you are 2/3 done. The rest is crosshatching and texture.
Looks pretty bad and dirty for a 2 hour study desu. What's your point? I'm giving you the benefit of a doubt here because there is no way someone would actually be stupid enough to believe doing a shitty digital photostudy, even if it took the artist 2 minutes, is somehow a more impressive feat than Murata doing a fully inked splash page in 4 hours.
>>2363123 Needs some line modulation...if you gave the mech a thicker outline, it'd 'pop' and so become the focal point - kind of like you did with the left tank the mech is crushing (or if the focus is supposed to be the lego pilgrim guy at the front, thicken his outline to create a focal point to say hes the important feature and the background is just general mayhem
>>2370923 I have no problem posting my work, but for 1, I would like to know what that would prove, and 2, what point you are trying to make. Are you disagreeing with my statement that this Luvisi study looks muddy as fuck? Or are you disagreeing with my statement that a photostudy is a much easier thing to do than a fully inked manga / comic page?
Give me some information as to why you want to see my work and what it will contribute to this argument and I will post it. If you can't do that, I will have to assume you are simply mad because I'm right and you want to get back at me by calling my art shit.
>>2371076 I told you, I'd have no problem posting my work if you answered my simple questions and gave me an explanation how posting my work would add to this discussion.
Right now, all I see is that you are mad at me because I called you an idiot for thinking a shitty photostudy is more challenging to do than that Murata manga page. You want me to post my work so you can completely bypass this argument and just insult me directly, because you know I'm right.
>>2371156 Not the same guy, retard. That Luvisi study is shit, deal with it. People rightfully called you out for being a fucking idiot to even compare Murata doing a manga page in 4 hours to some shitty photostudy. Now you are butthurt and desperately want to get back at one of the many people who called you out on your retardation. You're never gonna make it.
>>2375775 Yeah but it makes you think. Modern/Contemporary art is garbage, and this is what 'we' will be remembered for. There are plenty of skilled artists but a lot of them just confine themselves to the entertainment history. They will never have an impact on Art itself.
>tfw the 'great' artists of my time are all hacks who just splatter paint on a canvas
>>2375799 > There are plenty of skilled artists but a lot of them just confine themselves to the entertainment history. They will never have an impact on Art itself.
So real art is "no fun allowed"?
They're the best ones because they don't care about stupid shit. And Murata is still pretty popular thanks to OPM's own popularity, but artists like Yoshikazu are doomed to be forever never known because this manga is still way too looked down on.
Most of my favorite artists are unkown as hell. They're still my goal in life.
>>2375824 I probably have more of a problem with Contemporary art and the plebs who like that shit. It just makes me depressed that a lot of people with talent don't chase true mastery (or what I perceive as mastery) anymore.
>>2375855 This is interesting, but it's obvious why: art is so accessible in the 21st century. I could go out and buy a print of a nice print of some top level art to hang on my wall, for a few bux. I can look at the greatest art in human history from my browser at home for free. Art as an ornament, as a physical object is devalued. Any image, no matter its quality, struggles to stand up on its own merit in such a glut of content availability. Representative art has been killed by photography as the medium of choice for portraiture. So what is left with merit? Illustrators and comic artists are among the few cases. Illustrators are needed for the same reasons they always have been, that hasn't changed - comic artists are illustrating a story, which allows the art a vehicle to hold your attention. Art hasn't changed, so much as people's value placed upon art has changed.
>>2375899 To expand slightly on what I was trying to say, it's that we aren't seeing as many skilled artists in the conventional sense as we would have before, because conventional portaits, landscapes etc have so little financial value and desirability compared to the past that producing them has very little career viability now. The less artists getting paid to create, the less greats there will be.
>>2363310 redrawing is usually stitching pages together so they look seamless and removing text so you wouldn't know it was there in the first place.
use to do this shit for projects i wanted but had no one to do it... the groups demanded better than professional results, so its hard to not understand how people would be hesitant to work for free with pro skills being demanded.
fucking hated every minute of it because i knew damn well they were sitting on translations and not releasing anything because they wanted you to remove a piece of japanese text that takes up 1/4th the page, then redraw everything underneath like it was never there to begin with.
i could easily clean a book for text in under an hour but fucking "remove every piece of japanese text" and "this isn't good enough, do it better" killed all interest for me doing this.
>>2363061 did he do the shading (cant remember the term) or was it just the line work? for the line work, this is a cylinder that curves, not to hard, the legs are mostly the same just different positions, not ot hard, and the buildings are not exact things just boxes with details.
i can easily see someone who knows their shit doing the line work in 4 hours, the shading... knowing how the japanese do this for printing, that's a bit harder to say how long that would take.
>>2375824 >artists like Yoshikazu are doomed to be forever never known He gets thousands of views on his youtube drawing videos
Just because he's not known outside of /a/ in the english manga community doesn't mean he's a poor unknown artist. A guy that has their work being published every month has much greater footing than some doujinka who just releases a mag or two at comiket.
murata has some incredible visual imaging. it's how he can do those killer animatics, too - dude obviously has really good mental imaging, and can translate that to paper. 3d program in his head.
whether it's an innate talent or can be a learned skill, i don't know. certainly, better mental imaging can be picked up, and a lot can be compensated for nowadays with actual 3d programs to speed work up, but i'm personally somewhat doubtful the average layman can reach murata's level off of grind alone. might just be his particular type of brain.
still, it's not like he's an unassailable god-king, because his personal stories aren't particularly noteworthy. he's a fantastic artist, but he wouldn't be able to keep the audience he has without interesting and compelling subjects. that's why he sticks to writers. maybe it's a trade-off.
>>2377329 Uh, the reason Murata remade it in the first place was because it was its own little phenomenon in Japan.
It didn't become a sensation in the WEST, no, but it was popular enough that ONE was serializing and publishing two other series off the offers of publishers with his good storytelling and shit art before Murata even touched OPM. Which one of those series is getting an anime by Studio Bones on its own, no Murata involved.
Level up your weeaboo before you try being the smug little bitch about weeaboo shit, anon.
>>2377467 >Which one of those series is getting an anime by Studio Bones on its own, no Murata involved. It's getting a series because OPM got a series that became popular because Murata was involved.
>Murata does OPM >Madhouse makes a great anime for it, likely out of respect for the art as much as the story >It's successful >Let's jump on the gravy train and make another ONE anime since the last one was so successful
You can not have that chain of events without Murata in the same way you can't have the chain of events without ONE.
It's one thing to say the original was becoming "it's own little phenomenon" in Japan but then again what doesn't? Everyone gets their 15 minutes of fame.
>>2377494 > It's one thing to say the original was becoming "it's own little phenomenon" in Japan but then again what doesn't? Everyone gets their 15 minutes of fame Lmfao, "what doesn't"? Are you out of your mind? Make a webcomic then we'll talk
You seem to be missing the point, and proving my own at the same time. Something's popularity is not determined by quality or anything of that nature. Things become popular, ONE included, largely by chance that leads to a snowballing effect. The only reason why either of you know about it is because you've had it shared to you by other people who had it shared to them and so on. Once something has the good luck to get noticed, it needs the good luck to get traction, and then the luck to become popular, and then it will largely become self sustaining as it grows in popularity as more people learn of it and share it. ONE, OPM, the manga and the anime are proof of that. You talk as if it being a webcomic made it obscure but in fact it likely helped its viral status by making it easier to share than if it were printed in traditional media.
Though I imagine all that's a little over y'alls heads.
>>2377467 It didn't become a sensation in the WEST, no, but it was popular enough that ONE was serializing and publishing two other series off the offers of publishers with his good storytelling and shit art before Murata even touched OPM.
So it wasn't getting an anime or selling physical manga until Murata came along, is what you're saying?
>>2377536 it was popular enough on its own that the author was able to score two published serializations alongside their webcomic before murata entered the picture.
you do know people get paid for serialization, right? a series with weekly shonen sunday, which he has, is enough to support an artist solely off of their work. that's pretty much the definition of success.
when murata joined on, it reached a much wider audience, including people outside of japan, and certainly got him MORE money and success in addition to what he had, but the point remains that ONE can score a successful series off of storytelling skill alone, whereas murata, despite being a baller artist, only gets extended publication when he hooks up with a writer.
which means the point remains.
are you purposefully being a dense motherfucker about this?
>>2377557 ONE's story: popular, achieves lasting success from audience interest solely off of writing ONE's story, murata's art: hugely popular, achieves massive success off of combo murata's art: popular enough to get an occasional oneshot, but audience interest does not maintain itself long enough for lasting success
therefore, when it comes to making a visual story, writing > art.
that said, the fact that ONE's manga was popular wasn't solely because it was well-written - it was also visually understandable and compelling, which when it comes to comics is a skill that combines both writing sense and art sense. murata doesn't only contribute technical skill - he's also undoubtedly the better visual storyteller of the two, and that contributes a huge amount to the remakes larger success. but he's a better visual storyteller PROVIDED he's got ONE's building blocks, which once again comes back to the importance of the writing.
is art vital to the one punch man remake's huge international success? yes. is writing + story more important than art when it comes to achieving baseline success? yes.
So in your world, a comic that has a cult following with one creator and a worldwide success with the addition of another should give not only equal, but favor biased to the less popular creator? That's kinda wacko to me.
>>2377557 Counterpoint, I guess. The most popular release of OPM have been all of its releases, including ONE's original which is insanely popular for a self published japanese webcomic. Also, Murata's version follows ONE's panel compositions to a tee 95% of the time and he has said that any time he deviates from the original plot, he has to plan it out with and get it approved by ONE. It's the collaboration of Murata's art and ONE's story, jokes, character design, and layout that's made it an even more popular manga, you dingus.
>>2377635 his two series of note thus far are eyeshield 21 and one punch man. both were his art combined with a writer. and before you scour wikipedia, hetappi manga, which was serialized for a while, is a debatable area, because its format didn't require the sort of storytelling we're discussing here.
he's done several oneshots he's written himself, and while his artistic skill made them good enough to publish, his writing wasn't able to generate enough audience interest for serialization.
which ties back to the assertion that technically skilled art alone may get an audience through the first few chapters, but will not keep them, while writing alone will keep them to the end even if the art is shit on a shit sandwich.
"Here are the facts everybody. Writing is easy. Drawing is hard. I think if two people collaborate on making a comic, one writing, the other drawing, the writer should be forced to serve as the artist's butler to even the score."
>>2377854 Writing IS fucking easy...relatively speaking. The fact is even in the holistic sense it's easier to be a good writer than a good artist and the "act" of writing itself (which I suspect is what this person is speaking about, specifically) is astronomically less laborious than drawing or painting is. We spend our entire lives reading and writing, formal writing is a step up from something like say, this post itself, but not much. To become proficient in visual art many people have to basically reinvent themselves, whereas with writing you're just refining a pre-existing ability.
>>2377865 Lmfao, are you retarded or simply uneducated? What books do you read, just wondering? Writing as a craft has nothing to do with casual writing. Do you take into account stylistics and rhythm when you call somebody a faggot on 4chan? Do you take into account the incredibly complex task of storytelling?
>>2377827 cool quote. has nothing to do with the point that writing will always be more important than art when it comes to getting a dedicated audience for your visual story, but i'm sure it made you feel very validated.
I've never been one for mass-appeal, just quality. If writing is the most important part to your visual art then you're PROBABLY pretty boring.
"Hey, what was your favorite part of that Batman comic? Was it the dynamic lighting when Batman first appeared? How maniacal Joker looked? How sexy Harley looked? The staging during the fight with the crooks?"
>>2377827 I couldn't disagree more. Writing well told, well structured but organic stories is really hard. Playing with the form of storytelling In a professional setting, It takes a room of writers to fix plot problems. It takes several drafts to make something even remotely funny to half the audience. But I concede drawing is hard as well. All visual stuff is hard and needs a lifetime to master. Whoever can say that writing is easy probably doesn't write well. >looks up andrew hussie Yeah, he wouldn't understand. He's writing for a webcomic that plays with form over content (which is cool) but is ultimately about memes that does hard resets on character deaths, and jumps between 16+ characters to stave off plot death. There aren't any commitments (character resurrections and retcons), and hundreds and hundreds of 'pages' has no consideration for it's audience. Drop him in a writers room and he'd be washed the fuck out. If this were a tv show, a novel, a movie, audiences will leave in droves.
HOWEVER Here's my other concession. Those who divorce the importance of writing from art and vice versa, will make their storytelling suffer as a whole. A masterwork would need those two aspects so intertwined that if one suffers it's experience falters.
>>2378519 If you think this doesn't look good then you simply don't know anything about drawing and inking.
Idiots like you need to understand that having a contrarian opinion about objectively very good artists doesn't make you look edgy and cool, it just makes you look like someone who doesn't know the first thing about art. Judginy by your animu reaction image, I'm guessing you are one of the crossposting weebs from /a/ where it's cool to hate Murata and OPM, but that doesn't change the fact that he's an objectively great draughtsman.
>>2378989 I want to not discuss that specific mango's quality for a second: does /a/ think "unpopular" equals "better"? In fact it's probably all of 4chan. I've been here for years, and every single time something gets popular, a less popular equivalent gets love from this place while the popular thing gets bashed. I still wonder why.
>>2375799 Depends, the guy who wrote/draws berserk will be remembered. Murata, will also be remembered on the quality that is churned out. Also, even though it is entertainment, it's a bit of a windo to their mind.
>>2377196 >good writing and strong visual storytelling will trump amazing art every time.
So you mean both things that OPM dosnt have? Since, kid, lets get real here. I like opm, but its a silly webcomic with plot as dumb incoherent and directionless as any other comedy manga. Hell its not even good by webcomic standards when you got shit like unsounded one click away.
What OPM does have is a typical premise of a shonen title and a bit of originality in its realization of some of typical shonen trends. Still it falls flats on its face as ether a deconstruction of the genre like some delusional fans claim or a coherent narrative by itself. Characterization often makes no sense and is contradictory for not only the main cast but also for supporting characters, the pacing is all over the place and i cant even remember when was the last time we saw Genos in Ones version. A year ago? Two? It was way before sisters arc, somewhere mid Garou arc like 40 chapters ago. If you cant even menage your main cast properly what kind of storyteller are you?
Opm is an example of what a good artists can do with mediocre title, since if you didnt know Murata was the only thing that kept the series alive as One planned to drop it. But all said i do like it, i really like the premise and the humor if not the unreached potential of this series.
>>2381067 By was talking you mean was shown for one panel on one page in the background with the rest of downed heroes?
The last time Genos was up was chapter 73, 42 chapters ago way over 2 years ago. He was mysteriously absent from post Garou city mini arc and from sister arc.
Yep, the guy who seemed to be the integral part of this webseries from chapter 5 didnt make an appearance in over 2 years and 1/3 of the entire webcomic. And its not like he was killed off or anything, hes just .. not there. Like puff, evaporated into thin air and the plot left him behind.
So anybody who calls OPM well written is a fucking shiteating moron.
>>2381119 Its story is shit because One cant even find a palce in it for the characters he introduces ( especially when its a guy who was the main focus of the series next to Saitama for over half of it ) and his lack of any clue where hes going with this series shows more and more. And since One lacks the dedication to even update it escalating it even further. Hes been a professional managaka for 4 years now ever since Murata got him a job, and still he cant be assed to ether update regularly or put the series on a hiatus.
But hey, you are right. Saitama had also plenty of "screentime" by now, lets just drop him altogether and focus on Sonic instead, the one punch thing got boring already anyway. Right?
Is it so hard to string together an non retarded argument that makes any sense at all? Why are shonen fans being such insufferable morons.
>>2381126 > Saitama had also plenty of "screentime" by now, lets just drop him altogether and focus on Sonic instead, the one punch thing got boring already anyway. Right?
Saitama barel had an screentime in the MA arc and it was still he best arc of the serie, he's the MC but that just shows having constant screentime isn't necessary.
> Why are shonen fans being such insufferable morons.
> OPM > shonen
>And since One lacks the dedication to even update it escalating it even further. Hes been a professional managaka for 4 years now ever since Murata got him a job, and still he cant be assed to ether update regularly or put the series on a hiatus.
Maybe because the webcomic is still just a fucking hobby while he has MP100, a weekly manga, to work on?
>>2381130 >> OPM >> shonen its aimed at male teens with little violence no sexualization and little female cast its literally shonen Murata version could be argued to be seinen as it ramps up the violence and sexualization of female character and monsters, but still not enough i would say >Maybe because the webcomic is still just a fucking hobby while he has MP100, a weekly manga, to work on? a hobby thats the main source of his popularity and success Murata intentionally slowing down not to catch up too One too quick and have material for few more years, but he can do it only so much
neglecting your main source of success isnt just irresponsible but an insult to Murata who worked so hard and helped so much to make OPM a global success its now "its just a hobby" some fans fart out dosnt even apply anymore, its his job for years now
>>2381446 >a hobby thats the main source of his popularity and success
That's the manga, not the webcomic. Continuing the latter is like doing the storyboard even though there is already easily 7 years worth of content. He has no reason to do it aside from when he feel like it, focusing on his other manga which he actually have to release weekly is way more logical.
Also, he IS working on OPM. He does the new content and discusses about periodically with Murata. He's payed once Murata draws a page out of his. He also helped for the Anime.
You don't even fucking know what you're talking about, stop bitching.
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