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when is something plagiarism?
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You are currently reading a thread in /ic/ - Artwork/Critique

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I recently discovered an artist called Peter Mohrbacher and saw that one of his newer pieces (of some original project 'Angelarium') uses the human transmutation circle from the anime Fullmetal Alchemist (design created for the anime, and pretty recognizable for fans). Seeing this though, I realized I have no idea how to approach him about it, or if I SHOULD approach him about this. Anyway, I'm genuinely curious whether this is considered legitimately inappropriate or just plain lazy, and where the boundaries are.
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You're kidding right?
Are you sure both aren't referencing something much older to begin with?
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Literally Jews did FMA.
I don't know much about the transmutation symbols from fma but there is a chance that fma didn't originally create that shape. It may be inspired from real circles somewhere.
I think it's plagiarized though, it's really similar and doesn't fit into the painting that well

I think plagiarism is more of a scale thing rather than an absolute
Like if you copied star wars that's plagiarism but star wars copied sci fi and samurais. Disney copied Pocahontas

Forget about the law in terms of plagiarism, think about the ethics and originality
Don't just copy something to be lazy, try to make it original
Good artists copy; great artists steal.

Whether or not who really said that line, just the same as the line Immature poets copy; mature poets steal, or whatever it is from T.S. Elliot, the point stands.

If you're good enough to straight up steal something and get away with it, what does it matter. For example the pic you posted from Peter Mohrbacher, would you have realized that was straight up from FMA without having watched it? Likely not, and most people likely wont notice it without having watched it either, but it'll still be considered a nice work of art, because quite frankly it is regardless of that.

Boundaries are an iffy thing when it comes to art, because it involves a lot of different variables. Such as, is the art a recreation, such as someone drawing a character, whether it be in their own art-style? Is it a homage? Which might possibly be the Angelarium situation? Is it symbolism? Is it plain laziness? Also could be this particular situation. Is it plagiarism/stealing? Is a combination of these things, etc.?

Now think back to a lot of exercises you've done, typically if you've learned to hand draw, you learned by over tracing your own art-work or others to learn how certain lines curve or how angular they are. Would you consider that plagiarism? Probably not because it's a common learning exercise.

In this particular case I don't think it's plagiarism or straight up stealing because the rest of the image seems to be his own and maybe he just thought the transmutation circle was neat and wanted to include it, such as a lot of art with the Sephiroth Tree.

Art is just a very iffy thing man, typically I don't consider it straight up stolen unless it's taking someone else's art and touting it as your own, and I mean literally taking their art, not even tracing it and trying it yourself. Like saving the pic and posting it somewhere and being like "Look what I drew guys."

But it's all personal opinion really, and that's just mine.
His concern isn't that transmutation circles exist, it's the fact that the circle is the exact same, which in this case is unique to Fullmetal Alchemist, right down to the symbols itself he copied.
That quote is the biggest pile of shit in the world

Why the fuck would you copy straight up? What are you contributing to the world by copying?
Just jump off a cliff you're literally a waste of space
I didn't say the quote was a good quote, but it does have some bearing.

As for why you would copy straight up, it's actually how a lot of people learn to draw and understand how certain things such as fabrics bend and fold for example. With that said, I do agree that one shouldn't copy straight up and make the artwork their own especially if they already know how to draw, and I assume in this case it was just plain laziness to come up with his own unique transmutation design, as unfortunate as that is because for those that have seen FMA it is clearly straight up copied and a bit jarring to the overall work, which outside of that is good.

As for what you're contributing to the world by copying, you're contributing art. Plenty of great artists in history have copied or stolen and been far more recognized than the original artist. I'm not saying that is a good thing by any means, but it happens and it's how a lot of people get ahead. Now what if someone saw this artwork and had never seen FMA, but been told the circle was copied from that? That might think that it may be a decent watch and go check it out for themselves, that in itself is a contribution, whether good or bad is up to you.

I'm not saying it's a great thing to do, just that it exists and when it comes to art, it's hard to determine what the artist's original intent is in most cases for why they straight up copied, at least usually.
It looks like he turned it one cycle, yea it's probably photobashed in for the most part,
He did add some of his own stuff to the circle though.. and most of those symbols actually exist.

Lazy AF desu senpai, Don't care too much though since the piece stands without the photobashed alchemy circle..

The dude is a fucking terrible artist. Leave him alone.
terrible? explain

His skill level can easily be reached within 1-2 years by anyone who tries just a little. I have absolutely NO idea how this guy is popular and making money with his work. Noah Bradley atleast invested serious effort into self promotion and brand strategy stuff.
The same reason people can paint a canvas entirely blue and have it sell for tens of millions of dollars, or someone can draw nothing but Disney characters and get $23k/mo on Patreon.

As long as you know how to exploit the system and the internet, you will have more popularity and money.

Morbacher was even a magic the gathering artist at one point. Sounds like you Jelly af bruh

Shake my head and family filters to desu senpai...what..
Holy fuck Comparing Sakimi chan to Morhbacher? Are we that far into shit posting /ic/?

Atleast when he's not ripping off anime symbolism morh puts out interesting OC. Saki or Kuvshinov just put out anime fan art pin ups and yuri/yaoi.

Mohr is a very strong artist and Noah is atleast a full division behind.
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>transmutation circle
>FMA anime instead of manga
Reddit thread. Jesus Fuckin Christ those shitters are annoing.
Mohrbacher is a good painter in my opinion but his tracing habit is very off-putting.

He showed in a video once that he is able to paint a face and hands from imagination fairly well but he traces over his work anyway with a celebrity photograph every time because his own work is somehow "inadequate". It was really kind of sad to see.and hear him justify; the head he painted himself probably would be a lot better if he wasn't planning on using it as a placeholder, for example, but because of his feeling that anything short of a trace is "not good enough" he has to resort to that. He even traced the thumb/hand of this monster creature too if I recall correctly. Christ.
Well I wasn't exactly comparing them, just pointing out that you can get popularity as an artist by doing basically fuck all. Mohr is actually a really good artist and does a lot of good shit actually, far more than Saki.

Just saying that, it's easy to exploit the system and get some popularity and shit.
Ah, Gotcha Senpai, yea it's not rocket surgery to get popular..

but monetizing your audience or acquiring one that's willing to give you a buck or two once in a while takes some doing..

Without drawing furries or anime, at my level I haven't had great luck achieving this but I'm still going, and Having people like Peter around (who've "honestly" achieved these goals really helps)
Agreed, I haven't done much myself the past few years. I used to do a few commissions and things for people a few years ago, but eventually I quit just because they got severely out of hand with what people wanted, and I mean severely, like people wanting to send like actual CP for me to draw in art-style. Shit was bad, breath of fresh air the past few years just casually drawing when I can and enjoying myself without having to worry about people bugging me constantly.
no shit the concept of transmutation circles isn't something new, and the little symbol things are historical alchemical symbols. but the human transmutation circle from FMA is an original design.

>Fma anime instead of manga
lel see pic related,
human transmutation circle was redesigned for the anime when the manga was adapted.
Try harder, reddit shitter.Symbols on >>2358695 are different.
kek, you must be blind or a retard
pretty obvious he copied it dude. nobody is claiming that alchemy symbols are original ideas, just that that specific design was blatantly stolen from FMA unless someone can provide a source to an earlier one because all the ones posted so far are a lot different. but who gives a shit really

peter markets the hell out of himself and has a really good handle on reddit like noah. It's a bit shit to compare anyone shilling to noah though he managed to do it on another level. I don't understand why he hasn't just gotten a job as a marketing guy at some firm for 300k starting at this point
>japs steal random shit from other cultures
>it's alright

>some illustrator steal same shit from japs
>weeaboo's starts screaming

wow, really nothing new here.

You don't understand what that quote means.
By stealing it means to take possession of your inspirations and make them your own, like a sculptor takes possession of a certain type of rock, or a painter chooses a model as reference.
Just taking stuff because its easy and you can get away with it is what copying is.
fuck off weeaboo

Like that goetic/kabbalist sigils in fullmetal

or in evangelion

or in every magical gurl bullshit

The tree of life especially.
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>What are you contributing to the world by copying?

Refer to the OP picture, where the issue is "the circle half in the background that isn't the focus of the image" - so even if he stole it, it's not like he created nothing at all. The symbol is representative of "this guy has some abstract alchemical/occult thing going on", it isn't meant to be "look at this cool occult circle i made all by myself."

Whether it's acceptable to do it is a question I won't get into but to suggest that as soon as somebody copies one thing the value of what they made has immediately vanished is a little silly to me, there are degrees.
I've done exactly that once, after finishing, I was like, let's try a magic circle, so got one to test it, worked, and were too lazy to design one on my own, it wasn't for any client at all so zero fucks were given that day and the rest that followed
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>/ic/ goes on and on about Vilpu and Loomis but when an artist like Ilya Kuvshinov or Mohrbacher trace they fall over themselves to suck their dicks

Nothing red pills me about /ic/ more than /ic/.
Why are you not studying basic forms yet?
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A lot of my art uses lace and victorian patterns for the backgrounds or for outfits. I will use shit from online as placeholders as I render the rest of the painting (it's better that way process wise) but when it comes down to it I always make my own designs based off of the photos.

The artist OP posted is a lazy fucking cunt.

Same thing for artist's that steal nebula and starfields from google. Paint your own shit and it will look so much better.

What people don't realize is how easy it is to do your own patterns, simply by duplicating and rotating forms.(You can even make your own lace patterns by drawing a random shape, then flipping it horizontally, vertically and then rotating it.)

After that I just store those patterns in PS or as images for later work. A great example of BGs done this way is Thomas Romain who draws his background linework flat to start then skewing it into perspective.
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Do you fucking think the practice and formulas used in alchemy only came to exist after an anime?

Holy shit.

Formulaic circles are common imagery in occult literature. Go to your library and read "The Magus".

I actually want to throttle you through my monitor for being so poorly read.

Pic related is Isaac Newton.

[spoiler]dont trigger me like that[/spoiler]
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The work flow of that image is incredibly fun. It's how I use to do my concepts until I learned sketchup.

The problem with that workflow, especially for concept art, is that you only get one angle of the building. While if you did it in 3d it would take around the same time but you get a full turn around as well as the ability to quickly change something.
so many posters are missing the god damn point of what the OP is saying.

It's not that the circle shit is common it's that you can obviously tell he used the FMA image specifically as a base.

Try not to be so fucking retarded next time.
>I recently discovered an artist called Peter Mohrbacher

Sounds like you got interested in this "art thing" two days ago if you "discovered" Mohrbacher. Please dont torment us with your dillemas of a highschool freshman, tty.

Yeah, you might aswell just use 3d if you are going to use a lot of technical tools that aren't drawing.
Holy fuck.

This retard actually thinks cabalistic symbols used for centuries are from a fucking animu cartoons.

Oh god.
Oh god.
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Don't do drugs kid.
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Obvious samefag detected.

Cringe worthy as fuck.
Thread replies: 47
Thread images: 17
Thread DB ID: 454135

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