So, Sycra recently released a video with what he sees as the fastest way to improve in art.
iirc he has a background as an art teacher, both online and in real life, and he has interviewed and talked with a very large amount of artist.
Is his "Iterative Drawing" method really the fastest way to improve for people who start late and/or for people who need to be able to explain everything they do in art?
This type of practice is quite common in other disciplines, especially competitive sports/games. I myself used a similar method (but little different in the specifics) to get better at chess.
At any rate, it gets you drawing and it gets you analyzing your drawings, so at the end of the day its going to help one way or the other
Yes, draw a head, from imagination, 100 times.
From imagination ;), don't check what a real head looks like, just draw it from imagination 100 times. Ye, that will get you better! I mean.. guys, listen to me, that's the best way to study! LOOK AT WHERE THAT GOT ME GUYS AYY LMAO ;^ ))))))))))
Hey you know what, If you want to learn how to draw a snake, just draw it from imagination 100 times. Just try different things until it looks like a snake. But don't look at a real snake. That's a waste of time bro, just draw it 100 times from imagination and you'll be drawing like me in no time!
Rather than make full drawings, focus on one particular thing. Do that thing many times, each time experimenting with variations of that thing. Analyze the variations each time to see what works and what doesn't. Also look at reference to keep yourself objective as this >>2341447
Eventually whatever you've practiced will become automatic (i.e done without conscious thought), at that point you should move on to the next thing.
What I would personally recommend (which has finally gotten me some small progress) is learning how to draw straight lines (easy, but so damn useful), then basic forms (box, ball, cone, cylinder), then breaking down whatever you actually want to draw (e.g figures, spaceships, landscapes) into the basic shapes. For the last step you could copy reference, but from memory (i.e look at reference for a few minutes, then close it and draw it from memory). Or, I also found that drawing forms over the reference also works (and is generally faster).
i think i have found the fastest way of becoming good in drawing, and i mean drawing as a skill. its a long video where the dude basicaly talks about the importance of being able to draw a single cube in perspective, and training it until you are able to draw every shape you like in perspective. its like learning drawing from the most simple form and improving it to something complex. the guy realy not famous yet. but if you want i will share the link
That's not even what he's saying in that video you fucking retard. He explicitly mentions you have to already know how a head looks like. Nowhere does he say the exercise is supposed to be a substitute for studies either. How fucking stupid are you, seriously?
Wow, why are you so rude senpai. I was just memeing.
I mean, in all honesty, syrca is on to something here. But I think if you wanted to improve at drawing heads for example, a much better way would be to study from photos/life from a variety of angles. And when I say study, I don't mean mindlessly copying. In addition to the studies you do, you should also do drawings of heads from imagination, to check on what you actually understand and what needs work etc.
I also think it's good to do slow drawings once in a while. Basically, you should do everything. Like, if you follow his advice, you will improve in constructing your heads etc, but you will absolutely suck at adding details and polishing a drawing. Different ways of studying improve different types of skills. I remember jeff watts mentioning that you should do both slow drawings, and many, simple drawings.
You weren't listening very hard, were you? You heard him go "don't use reference" and your brain just shut off so you went to /ic/ to shitpost instead.
It was pretty obvious to anyone with a tiny bit of common sense that he meant don't bother just copying from reference constantly, and instead experiment and train your imagination. He even mentions consulting reference isn't a problem, but it's better to try first, then check, then try again.
I think there's merit in the idea of doing several different experiments on the same concept that a lot of people don't do.
A lot of people, especially starting out, just ask and look everywhere for the ideal way to do it and never bother to experiment and try different things. I think the method Sycra proposed - which isn't novel by any means but hey - can probably improve retention by making you think, compare, and not become overly reliant on reference.
So many people are so afraid to fuck up they just look for the 'winning formula' and just do that over and over again. And it becomes very... well, formulaic.
>judging the quality of advice based entirely on who says it rather than the merits of the advice?
What's wrong with the concept of practising this way, or are you just shitting on Sycra because he's Sycra?
Considering how much this board seems to idolize the ability to draw with imagination and tends to calls anyone who depends on reference a hack, his advice seems to fit with the ethos of /ic/ in the "practice a lot, get a lot of mileage, try over and over until you get it right, and don't use references as a crutch."
But I guess he's Sycra so let's all shit on it without thinking.
>all this shitposting
is Sycra just the trigger word of /ic/ now? Seems every thread everyone tries and rips him down as if he knows nothing.At worst he is better than 90% of you.
That's irrelevant though. Why do so many noobs on /ic/ believe that artists can just improve endlessly if they just want it badly enough? Yes, Sycra will most likely never be a great artist, but guess what, neither will you be. 10 years from now, you probably still won't have surpassed him. Sycra is decent, knows the fundamentals and gives good advice, that's all that matters here.
The problem that nobody on /ic/ seems to understand is that once you achieve a level of technical competence - which Sycra has demonstrated with his more realistic stuff - you can go in two directions. Either you can very, very slowly refine a realistic approach or you can switch it up and start to stylize. Either way, 'improvement' becomes remarkably less objective after the first few hurdles. Not to suggest Sycra achieved mastery or anything, but when you look at this >>2341789 you can tell he has ability to work in a style that doesn't show in his usual stuff. It isn't a gap in knowledge or ability, it's a difference in taste.
Retards on this board seem to think there's some measurable and consistent upwards trend of improvement in art from when you start to when you die. Like you just check off the boxes of "git gud" until you're an elder god who's achieved objective mastery of art or something.
I hate to break it to you, anon, but you can read all the art books in the world and you'll still hit a point where measurable and objective progress (namely: learning fundamentals) tapers off into personal preferences. You will find what elements of art you like, and you'll focus on those. Some will approve, some won't, but you can't please everyone, especially not in the art world.
Now I'm curious how far your art has come since 2006 compared to Sycra's.
>very little increments
If your not joking im sorry.
Everyone is looking for that wand to help them magical git gud, when really just do your studies. Even the progression threads here when it doesn't turn into pure shit posting give you that insight. When someone shows dramatic improvements in one year, people always ask what where their studies? They always reply with something like "nothing really. I just started drawing a lot more".
People should learn to figure draw and understand the very basics of human anatomy. Then, practice figure drawing at least 2 hours a day, among other things. You will definitely see a huge improvement in just a few months. Problem is, no one here is willing to do that every day.
Wisest post I've seen in this thread. Couldn't be more true. Really irritates me when other d/ic/ks belittle the work and progress of other artists solely based on taste/subject matter. It's unfair judgement. Also consider that we're all anonymous, so neither of us knows what we're trying to achieve or the kinds of hurdles we've jumped to achieve it.
good start, he's already dividing his audience into groups. Let's alienate people and say "if it doesn't work for you, you must not be the right kind of person"
He's already said "some people are talented, and then there's the rest of us who actually work hard"
10 minutes in and he's still jabbering about personality types.
"start with heads"
what the fuck does that mean. who's head? from imagination?
he's drawing houses? now he's drawing heads? talking about colors like if you begin drawing you should even be thinking about color
"I drew green hair. why is green hair wrong?"
just wrote the words "proportion, construction, form, perspective, anatomy" like any of those things matter for beginners.
alright this guy clearly doesn't know how to teach people how to draw stay away from him.
>just wrote the words "proportion, construction, form, perspective, anatomy" like any of those things matter for beginners
the rest of your post was retarded too but this line in particular was something special
That video could be summarized into three sentences.
>Don't just mindlessly copy your reference, Analyse your mistakes
>Keeping on drawing the same thing again and again until you get it right (and check your progress by comparing what you drew with your reference)
>Do this one step at a time, for everything you'll use (e.g. use the iterative drawing method for perspective, then proportions, then anatomy etc.)
Honestly though, I would have assumed that this is common knowledge and the first thing people try when they learn something, since it's just like school.
>Study this unit and do exercises
>When you're good at this unit move on to the next
>One day you'll be able to use all these knowledge together to do something
You must be completely retarded if you got lost because he changed what subject matter he was drawing. They were examples of the concept, he wasn't teaching anyone how to draw heads, or teaching anyone about how color or composition worked. He was showing how experimenting in each of these different areas works with the method of practicing he proposed. He has different videos to try and teach how to actually approach the subjects he was providing examples for, none of them were the point of his video. It's pretty fucking crazy that went over your head but maybe you were looking for a reason to complain and be dismissive.
Are you assuming he set out to teach a 100% beginner with zero prior knowledge every single fundamental aspect of art in 55 minutes or something? Are you disappointed that you didn't suddenly learn art after watching it?
I did get sick of his pseudoscience left brain right brain analytical versus creative shit but he really should've covered "complete retards who can't understand really simple concepts" for you.
wanna know how to get better at drawing?
draw your hands. 5 hands a day for the rest of your life. hands are the hardest thing to draw on your body, and observational drawing teaches you more than imagination or reference.
and you don't have to shade them, shading is just style, focus on form, and really making it clear what the shape of your hand is. think gustave dore but without trying to imitate shadow and light, just as many lines as you can to indicate the form.
this sycra guy has no clue what he's talking about he's just rambling.
>observational drawing teaches you more than imagination or reference.
Using a reference is observational drawing you dingus. What you're suggesting is just draw the fuck out of hands using your own hands as a reference. It's good advice, but goddamn.
>shading is just style
Shading adds form, so I don't see how it's "just style".
>think gustave dore but without trying to imitate shadow and light
>without trying to imitate shadow and light
but shadow and light is what gives object form
>just as many lines as you can to indicate the form
And a beginner just starting out will colour the entire page black.
There are only two things you're learning to do when drawing your hands.
>fundamentals (e.g. perspective, proportions, the anatomy of hands, construction, sounds familiar?)
Yes drawing hands does help you draw in general, but you're literally applying what Sycra is saying in that video. By telling others to only focus on construction and form of the hand, you're basically applying iterative drawing .(which is nothing new, btw. Just look at schools)
shadow and light doesn't give objects form if you leave a huge area white because the light is hitting it that tells you nothing about the form. implying details is great as a style, not so great for learning. fill it with as many lines as you can to show the form of what you are drawing even if it looks ugly. we're making art not photos.
the reason you do all this is so when you go to paint you won't have to worry about drawing you can just focus on color. it takes a huge weight off your shoulder when you don't have to worry if you are getting the drawing right.
hands. as boring as that is, that's the best thing to study. not 1000 heads from imagination.
idk the fuckin words to use. i shoulda said "photos" not "reference"
About that 1000 head thing. I thought Sycra meant like how you would prepare for a math quiz. Find a reference, draw a head without looking at the reference, then compare what you drew to the reference. after that, you find your mistakes and try and correct it, and then just rinse and repeat.
>focus on form
Says the guy whos shading shows no understanding of form who posts his work as if its the golden standard in a thread where it wasnt relevant. If you actually think you know what you're talking about more than Sycra you are delusional
do you want to get better or not. i'm improving because I'm doing the right things. I had to sift through a lot of bullshit from people who didn't know how to teach me, and I'd like other people to not struggle to learn as much as I did. So just take my advice.
>you dream accurately, so you must be able to draw accurately
lol you don't dream accurately or in perfect detail, you're just in a credulous state so your shitty imagination seems real. same reason you don't realize you're dreaming even when the laws of physics are broken (lucid dreaming exempt, of course)
Not that Anon, but it is not bait. I don't have the heart to be a d/ic/k and crush his spirit i'm just waiting for someone to come in and tell it the way it is.
Improving the physical drawing skills, muscle memory and etc, but this can be done with drawing lines, circles. I don't think this needs more than 5 minutes of explanation, especially when this type of training plateau's relatively quickly and can cause you to become conceptually dumb from over-use.
I agree that the video could be summerised down to about 10 sentences, but that doesn't make this a troll thread.
The "iterative learning" method really isn't anything new or fancy, but from what I've seen on this thread apparently a large amount of people doesn't get this concept. (or maybe it's just that one guy and muh hands)
ok work from reference and all, but your still fucking delusional. it looks like studies and observation is all u got.good luck getting anywhere when you can't draw from imagination..
The best way to get better at drawing is to take a reference and draw it from another angle. As a working Concept Artist/Illustrator, not only do I disagree with Sycras method but I highly recommend you not to use it.
so how do you propose you get to a point where you don't need to be a slave to reference? you need mileage to get good at drawing from imagination and his method gives that. he even states that you should understand what you're drawing as a prerequisite to this exercise, so doing what you're doing is assumed to have already been done
Amateurs draw from imagination. You should use reference for everything: structure, composition, poses, colour palette, etc.
That doesn't mean being a slave to reference by any means.
If you really feel the need to learn to draw something from imagination, take a reference of it, draw it from another angle (3/4 view is good) and you will probably be able to draw it again from memory, from any perspective, after only 1 study. Drawing something from a different angle to the reference forces you to truly interpret and understand the 3D structure and proportions of the object.
That's good advice but still, saying only amateurs draw without refference is a biased generalisation. I rarely use refference. Instead I often try to be the material, be the pose, feel the gravity. Although I have studiet much from real life I don't depend on it on such a level that I can't draw from imagination alone. Not everyone used the same set of tools. that doesn’t necessarily make them a shitty artist.
Any kind of practice where you do a thing a lot and then look at the mistakes you made, then do the thing a lot while trying to fix those mistakes, then looking again at the mistakes you made, and trying to do the thing again while fixing mistakes is a fast way to improve.
Pretty much, sycra when you see his actually finished works, and works he gets paid for you can see that he is objectively good and achieved a quite good level of competence.
What he is mostly doing now is trying to branch into more anime and cartoonish style which he has to relearn, as he is pretty much creating his own style that fits him.
>merits of the advice
The merits being what? Drawing like Sycra?
This aside, Sycra is a horrible source of information. The nigger refuses to actually learn from / read books by people who already went through discovering techniques to drawing and instead keeps reinventing the wheel, except in a profoundly retarded ways, so you get half-baked ideas like his lightning hands that at their core are what better, smarter artists already explored and formulated better 50 times, but reimagined by a child with special snowflake syndrome.
>Amateurs draw from imagination
that's fucking retarded. let's go tell Kim Jung Gi, mike mignola and dave rapoza that they're all still amateurs
You think Jake Paker drew his racing robots without looking at references of racing bikes? You don't need to have a reference literally on the table next to you to be considered 'using reference'.
You're an idiot. Obviously no one is against using reference every once in a while, you stupid fuck. However you specifically said use reference for EVERYTHING. Once you have studied a subject and understood how it works, you no longer need to use reference for it all the time. If comic book artists had to take photos for every single pose they draw, they could never finish a deadline and their figures would look lifeless and stiff as fuck. If you use reference for everything, you ARE a slave to reference.
That is incorrect. There is a part of your consciousness that isn't dependent on your brain and that gives you free will.
When you are drawing from imagination you are drawing on the free will of your consciousness. Hence, why people who draw from imagination have a lot of creativity compared to reference fag.
Did Picasso use references to do cubism?
Did Michangelo use references for his 10 head figures?
Did Leonardo Da Vinci use a reference to draw a tank?
That's the whole point. To get good at drawing from imagination, you need to train yourself in actually making use of your mental library, training your memory, be observant etc. People who rely on reference all the time tend to have a very underdeveloped visual library because they don't bother to do these things. They have the mindset that they can always just open google image search, so there's no point in being observant and getting proficient at using their internal reference folder that is their memory.
>implying free will exists
>Did Picasso use references to do cubism?
>Did Michangelo use references for his 10 head figures?
>Did Leonardo Da Vinci use a reference to draw a tank?
I am a half-time art teacher, teach fundamentals at college level and I can tell you 99% of the reason people don't draw as well as they could comes from one of three instances:
>They give up because they haven't trained the physical component enough and become disillusioned
>They refuse to listen to their teacher
Been doing this three years, gone through 16 groups, over 400 students and I can count with the fingers on one hand the students who didn't believe there was a magic wand to git gud instantly and you're an asshole who doesn't want to share it.
>That is incorrect. There is a part of your consciousness that isn't dependent on your brain and that gives you free will.
nigga the fuck are you on about.