>>2337259 Depends on the style and person. Some people go straight to stylized art and do well, others do realism first then shift over. /ic/ usually says you need to master realism first but that's demonstrably not true. So long as you have an understanding of form and other fundamentals you can begin stylizing. The issue is people will stylize without knowledge and produce crap or symbol-based work that looks flat and terrible.
Develop your eye enough that you can tell when something looks unrealistic and why, at least. I find when it comes to stylized stuff there's the intentionally 'off' stuff that has consistency and isn't jarring, and then the stuff that's 'off' more as a consequence of ignorance of the way things work, and those are usually pretty shit.
If you're trying to learn to draw cute anime girls, knowing the components of a cute girl in real life doesn't hurt, then you can adapt it to your needs. Funny enough our thread on hacks is a pretty good example of taking reality and twisting it a little with stylistic stuff to make it appealing. >>2336771
No matter at what point you decide to tackle stylization you'll still have to go back and revisit fundamentals regularly if you want to improve.
In theory it's better to do a lot of fundamentals and only moving to stylization after you got good. In reality you'd probably get bored before that point and quit drawing all together with that approach. So my advice is to practice fundamentals regularly, but don't forget to have fun and just draw what you want even if it turns out to be shit.
>>2337280 >When you want to draw stylized stuff, it'll come naturally and be very easy if you're already proficient in your fundamentals and such.
I don't buy that for a second. Stylizing is a skill that needs to be practiced like anything else, being strong at drawing realism won't magically make you good at stylized works that require completely different aspects of design. You're right that you need the fundamentals in the first place but saying it'll just come with the flick of a wrist if you can draw realism is ridiculous.
>>2337306 Why would you think that? The fundamentals have nothing whatsoever to do with realism. People usually learn the fundamentals by studying life or realistic references, but that is not the same as drawing realism. If you do stylized life drawing studies while still being observant of the perspective, volume/ form, proportions etc, you are still learning the fundamentals, without drawing realism.
In many ways you are actually learning even more effectively that way, because stylization forces you to actively analyze what you are seing and think about design, appealing shapes, simplification etc. Whereis otherwise it's very easy to fall into this autopilot mode where you are just mindlessly copying what you see.
Simplifying realism =/= make realism easier. You need to choose what to keep, and what to redesign, and that requires knowledge. Personally I find it far, far easier to slap on more details and rendering to improve something than take details and rendering away / simplify them to improve it. They're different skills and both require cultivation, you're a fucking moron if you think any realist artist can stylize.
>>2337381 Not really. Good stylization is actually more difficult and requires a far greater sense of shape design than realism does. You could ask a thousand great realist draughtsmen to draw a stylized tiger and not one of them could draw something even half as good as Milt Kahl did.
Meanwhile, every Disney animator could easily draw a very well drawn realistic tiger from life. Many of them would probably even do a better job than the realist draughtsmen, because the animators have a much stronger sense of movement, life, weight and are no slaves to what they see in front of them.
>>2337377 For me, every stylization has a bit of symbol drawing in it.
Certain artists that draw from imagination can create incredibly complex stylizations, despite that, you'll always see a certain pattern behind it, it's their style, which at least for me, is nothing but a symbolic representation of the accumulated knownledge that artist has.
That's why, it's pretty hard to draw something from imagination for the first time, you need to study it first and create a symbol library of it, while for photorealism it doesn't matter, because you aren't using your visual library, all you need to know is already there, in front of you, you just need to observe it and apply the correct techniques.
>>2337444 While I agree with your general points, realists use shape design too. They just do it in more subtle ways than Milt does. If you compared 1000 realist draftsmen to Milt you'd get a lot of drawings on par technically. They would be less stylized but of equal quality.
>>2337259 You need to master construction and proportion before you can design your own. You don't need to master anatomy, that's what reference is for. And you need to be really good at perspective because creative and liberal use of difficult perspectives is what separates comic/manga masters from Seth McFarlane's 8U faces.
And don't listen to this imbecile >>2337280, stylization is 90% design. Good stylization is concious and deliberate, made to express visual rethoric and infinitely customizable. "Learn realism and it'll come naturally" stylization is drawing in symbols from a relatively larger mental library and only results in uncanny valley shit.
>>2337470 I think a better way to put it, rather than a 'symbol library,' is to call it an artist's repertoire. Much like any musician, they can play(draw) whatever pieces(subjects) they've learned sufficiently. Symbol drawing would be technically correct, but I feel that the symbols would be what an untrained mind believes the object is seen as. Whereas, the learned 'symbol' is more of the actual and desired result.
Semantics, really. But I understand what you mean and agree.
>>2337259 All good Stylized/cartoonish drawings have "realism"(don't really like that word...). Any good drawing of a character will still need to look like it exists and is planted realistically in 3d space (Aka perspective), and will still need to have appealling proportions(Generally realistic proportions), and some degree of anatomy depending on the style. Though Ive seen skilled artists make up anatomy that still looks good, probably because of the form and proportions. Basically all good(in my eyes) stylized stuff still follows pretty much all realism rules
>>2337953 Design. Stylization is a language. Thinking you can draw good stylization automatically after "mastering" the fundamentas is like thinking you can program software because you beat a videogame.
>>2338781 It's pretty much the most important thing. Almost everything that is animated is a person. Things like cars or vehicles are usually 3d these days even in 2d animations. Also the skills required to draw and animate people properly apply to other things as well. It's one of the most difficult things, so it demands a lot of attention. Also people are familiar with what people look like and how they move, so even small errors are obvious to the layperson. If the way a horse runs is a bit off most people can't tell, but if a person runs and is a bit off it is very apparent.
>>2338961 No, but it wouldn't take long to learn how to draw anime from that point because you'd have a solid base to work from. You would still need to learn the stylizations and shape/form language of anime though.
>>2338961 Do you know what arrangement of shapes triggers a sense of cuteness? Horror? Desire? Do you know how to symbolize speed and the ilussion of movement? Do you know the archetypical shapes of heroism and villainy? Of peace and danger? Do you know the shape of bravery?
If the answer to any of these is "no", you're not ready to stylize no matter how much of an autistic russian academist you are. Stylization if a VISUAL LANGUAGE, not an afterthought.
Go study design, visual rethoric and storytelling.
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