BEGINNER THREAD

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>>2331234

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>>2331235

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>>2331236
I especially recommend the last one as it it similar to rendering a cube and should be a gateway to actual architecture.

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>>2331237
Pick your Pick, someone should post a high quality nude so we have pretty much everything covered.

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>>2331239

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>>2331234
and the classic ultra-noob tutorial to go with everything.

>>2331110
Are you asking how you should go about rotating canvas? Because almost all programs have that ability.. If you have Photoshop hold R, click and drag to rotate the canvas. Bind R to a convinient button. The image you posted has SAI open - a quick google search tells me moving cursor with alt + space pressed does the same thing.

Personally though I never used it much, I did it a lot before moving to digital, but now I've just become better at drawing lines in every direction, so rotating canvas is just if I have a very long awkward line to do, which is not very often.

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>>2331239
reminder that i have no patience to do studies

>>2331281
dont do them then, studies are never as useful as drawing what you want to draw and improving whatever you want to draw as you go along

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here are a few more portrait references

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and some bird head references if anyone wants to tackle that

also
>>2331290
what the heck

>>2331290
well the thing is i just didnt want to be the faggot who starts threads and doesnt post on them, but didnt have 2 hours to dedicate to a study.

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Short study from life, painted last night a hippo toy that I have on my desk.

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>>2331328
resized, sorry

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I'm trying to achieve an Antonov-like artstyle, so I was painting this based on another drawing. Is it looking good? Where should I improve?

>>2331330
A lot. Try learning how to draw a face first, then move on from there.

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Fucking hell how am I gonna make it if I can't even break this fucking bird down into simple shapes

>>2331334
Don't over think it. Literally, just break it down into very basic shapes (like a circle, cylinder, etc). Only use shapes, don't bother with shading, feathers, or anything.

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>>2331336
>I can't break it down into simple shapes
>just break it down into simple shapes
kek

but yeah, how am I supposed to do that with organic shapes like this beak for example? I get confused with this concept.

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>>2331344
Shapes don't have to be accurate, just place holders. I mean, don't go out of your way to place the shapes in fucked up areas, just place the shapes in areas you feel would best fit. You're not trying to COPY, you're trying to STUDY the image.

>>2331351
Alright, I'll try it again. Thanks for this, anon.

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From memory, but I'm still fucking up.
DO YOUR WORST 4chin.

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trying to use shapes

>>2331344
That beak clearly shows a sense of form already, so why you would want to simplify it down is beyond me. Breaking down into shapes is to help beginners think in 3D space and how it's oriented.

Personally though I work mostly with cubes if there are very difficult organic shapes, and then just carve them in accordingly afterwards. Using several of them is also a good idea when you clearly have intersecting shapes - like in this beak.

>>2331413
I don't know, there isn't really much of a "you got it now bruh" moment in this so I don't really know when I start to apply concepts correctly.

>>2331399

Getting there but there's some stuff off, like the ref's face is pointed down further and turned a little more to the right compared to the drawing

>space/fold between the brow is too big compared to ref

>lips are thicker compared to ref


Keep trying, friend!

>>2331234
yes, we a\need that! now i have nothing to draw thanks to you being a lazy cunt and not picking a good image to study

>>2331290

This is bad advice.
"Improving what you want to draw as you go along" means studying the things you want to improve. Doing studies =/= "copy pictures from the beginner thread" it means researching and practicing an element of the craft you need to improve.

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Hey guys, was trying to do an old school tattoo style drawing of a tiger. I thought it was okay but it seems too... basic? I don't know, any general advice is good. I feel really stuck with a lot of shit I'm doing right now. Don't know how to make a simply styled thing look extraordinary.

>>2331330

The rendering is a little muddy, I remember the pic from the other thread and the guy you're studying has good values, so I suggest practicing in black and white a little to make sure you get your values down. Painting in color can be really tough starting out.

>>2331443
It's not that it's basic it's just that it's not rendered properly for an old school style tat design. Old school is bold and in some ways simplistic. All the detail on the fur on the top is not necessary for that style.

>>2331443
It looks like you focused on surface detail more than how the head is constructed. That jaw is way fucked up. And don't give me that "it's stylized" crap.

I can barely draw my iPhone. How fucked am I? Should I just give up immediately? -_- I have two degrees but I feel 6 years old when I pick up a pencil, and not in a good way.

>>2331461
Unless you're literally unable to hold a drawing material you're perfectly capable of drawing.

Someone post that 30+ year old who started drawing and became good throughout the years.

>>2331484
It's strange how older people are able to excel a lot quicker in art than younger people. I'm guessing it's because most things have to "tell a story" through art? Or I guess it's simply because older people are more willing to learn fundamentals than muah style?

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I failed at making a good looking painting and at accuracy but I feel I have learned a lot in the process of doing my first photo study and trying to get that painterly look.

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>>2331503
And the ref

>>2331503
don't be afraid to push darker values and use harder edges, the usual

>>2331503
The original ref is so fucking Photoshoped, her face is too flat to make a good practice.

Anyway, you ignored a lot of the shadows that added at least a little volume to her face, like that really dark one defining her jaw and cheekbone.

>>2331486
> it's because most things have to "tell a story" through art?
> it's simply because older people are more willing to learn fundamentals than muah style

I think mostly it has to do with motor control and cognitive functioning. Adults are moreso adept because they can fully understand all the minute facets of art application and theory. Or , atleast, they have an increased potential to.

>>2331457
Nah I feel you but would it honestly look better if the jaw wasn't jacked?

>>2331530
Yes. duh.

>>2331516
Every time I tried to put in the shadows, they just looked like someone punched her in the face. Maybe I just don't understand the tools well enough to get that look or color, I've not quite reached a good understanding of that. Many more studies to go. Still, this is literally my first time to try a study like this. Thanks for the tips.

>>2331520
Yeah, as I was saying I kept fucking up over and over, putting shadow down, try to blend it, it didn't look right or blended out...rinse and repeat. Thanks for the critique and maybe it being photoshopped was what made it so hard, aside from just being unfamiliar with the whole process.

>>2331234
Is Paint Tool Sai a good program to use? Or gimp?

Or should I really just be using Photoshop? I don't usually torrent software, as it's much more likely to come packed with trojans, especially something as popular as Photoshop that's really easy to get lots of dumb teens to download.

Is CS6 worth $20 a month?

>>2331540
Not really when free alternatives like Krita exist.

>>2331542
Does Krita have the pretty much exact toolset and brushes, etc.?

>>2331538
noob tool sai, its fine if youre just beginning and dont want to learn photoshop
>>2331540
steal it

Both of you theres question thread.

>>2331538

Sai is good. There was a thread around of a guy who did pretty nice looking paintings in Sai. There's probably some gimmicky photoshop specific stuff you can't do, and you might not have fancy brushes or whatever, but it'll get you where you need to go.

There's always Krita too, which is the closest you're going to get to a free photoshop.

>>2331547
>Both of you theres question thread.
Didn't know that, sorry.

>>2331548
I'll just use Krita then. Proprietary software is for faggots.

>>2331538
haha, it shows that you really don't torrent stuff if you're worried about trojans. bit torrents aren't seedy underground dealings where you don't know what you're going to get, the top hit for photoshop CC on the pirate bay has over 1600 seeders and comes from a trusted uploader.

photoshop has a lot of things in it that you're never going to use, though it also has things you may use a lot that SAI and gimp don't have. SAI will be easier to start with if you're just doing line stuff, but I would use photoshop.

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Second batch of 2 min gestuuuures~ ..and I haven't moved anywhere.

>>2331516
Not the anon who drew the pictures, but what
merit does using a hard, round brush have when shading/coloring?

>>2331484
Thanks! I'll persist!

>>2331538

Popular, heavily downloaded torrents usually come from uploaders with a good reputation, and if people find trojans they usually call them out on it. As long as you're not being brainless about it you're not any more likely to get a virus from a bit torrent as you are from visiting a website. As with all things, discretion is necessary but it's usually pretty obvious what the shady places are.

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>>2331234

>>2331562
>and I haven't moved anywhere.

If you mean in terms of improvement, don't worry about that, it'll take a lot longer to get good at gesture. What I'd suggest is to do some slower more deliberate figure drawings in between gesture sessions. Personally I feel like doing gesture too early isn't as helpful anyway, if you're not at a point where you already have a bit of muscle memory and intuition to train.

>>2331566
blog?

>>2331566
ew

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help me beginnerfriends. I fear I have over-rendered this into a turd not worth saving. It lacks the depth and realism i was aiming for. How do I inject that back into my work

Getting proportions down intuitively is kicking my ass right now.

>>2331366
Cant see any real mistakes, maybe you should add details.

>>2331366
>>2331628
Not a whole lot for us to criticize, is there? You can draw a circle, we can tell you where it's not perfectly round but in the end it's still just a circle, get what I mean? Aside from putting the belly button too high it's just a meh figure.
Rather than just drawing circles for the joints draw cylinders up to them. Get some construction going.

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I'm not exactly a beginner but I haven't drawn anything seriously in years

please rip me a new butthole in criticizing this, it's the only way I will learn

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Is this looking good so far? I feel like the pose could be more dynamic, but it is a bit late for that.

>>2331638
>That image

And how exactly are you NOT a beginner? Could you show some of your life work? Even something as simple as a sphere.

>>2331638
you hid the face because you know its bad and you want a critique what a joke this post is. Also dont go in beginner thread and preface with the fact that you arent a beginner. ignoring of course your long hind leg which i assume are stlistic her left foot is too long and you lack all sense of anatomy in your abdoment. your hands are scribbles and who am i kidding you didnt even try to do perspective..

>>2331641
hes obviously not a beginner idiot. as much as i hated on him he could easily post in drawthread

>>2331638
How serious were you when drawing this? Her legs are totally fucked m8 they're like 3 times as long as her torso, maybe 4.
Even ignoring the size the position is legit alien. Imagine her turning 45°

>>2331640
youre at a point in your drawing level where everything is roughly uniformally bad and any critique would be wasted. Just power through. I recommend studies so that you can learn anatomy since form is at a good level proportionally

>>2331601
draw thread too good. Tree doesnt read though.

>>2331642
it's not filled in and I was looking for critique on the body, not a blank series of circles

but thank you for your honesty, I'll try and work on it to get back to what I used to be able to do

>>2331641
I don't have anything with me, I'm just sketching this in my car before I go to work

>>2331649
>Body only

So what are you using to distinguish the proportions? Or is your style to always have the head completely different in every frame?

>>2331646
not really serious, I'm in my car sketching things before I go into work

after about four years of nothing I suddenly felt the want to draw again. I was never focused on correcting mistakes when I used to draw, just drawing what I liked but now I want to improve myself so I came here for people to shit on me

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How fucked is this one

>>2331601
First off; get out of here. I don't know who told you to come here instead of normal drawthread but you dwarf most people in the normal drawthread and are like a shark in a fishbowl here. Not to say your without flaws, its More like you're just beyond this, and any advice here wouldn't do you justice

that being said though, the tree is a bit too blue, especially with the top being in full sunlight. fix that and that's pretty much all the help I can give you. good work friend

>>2331658
lowerlip/10
learn lineweight.

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>>2331601

Objects further away in the scene have lighter values than objects closer. It lacks depth because the viewer literally can not tell the spacial relations between objects in your scene.

You should really have done value thumbnails to set your composition. There is no apparent focal point. Visual flow and focal points are the basics of composition. Lead the viewer's eye around your scene by using simple tricks like the 3x3 grid and the spiral which is perfect for your type of scene.

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First and second try at this, done yesterday and the day before yesterday respectively. It stopped looking like the girl in the ref both times, I think it may not be worth working on it anymore.

What do you guys think?

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>>2331682
I'm gonna mudsling that guy to death anyway.

W.I.P.

>>2331484
>Someone post that 30+ year old who started drawing and became good throughout the years.
seconding this

>>2331523
that makes sense. Yea, I can see that.

>>2331709

Your second one is far better in basically every way, and the likeness is there. If you've stopped seeing the likeness yourself just set it down for a little while, you can return to it later. Sometimes staring at something for a long time and nitpicking can make it hard to see the big picture, sort of like repeating the same word until it sounds weird.

Alternately, you can just take stock of what you did better the second time and move on to a new piece. No need to get too attached to a study if you feel done with it, as long as you take something from it it wasn't a failure.

>>2331709
Your nose stands out as the one trait that's messing up the likeness. You need to push stage left nostril closer to the right straighten that bridge since it's more grecian than you're depicting.

The chin could also be shaved off by the smallest hair where the darkest shade of her neck is. But second is good, especially in contrast with the first one.

>>2331711
No anon stooop use a harder brush for blocking in damnit.

guys i have a question, the chans are randomly crashing on my PC and only 4chinz is it normal or is something wrong?

>>2331799
something is wrong. its been happening since yesterday at least.

>>2331806
thank god! i though my PC got a virus or some shit hahah

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could someone point out what did I mess in this shit? did it in about 30min, should I spend more time improving it next time?

also sorry for fucking up her right eye so badly, I just kinda lost my patience

>>2331823
Don't worry about rendering next time, spend more time constructing the face. Look at reilleys method, you can find info about it in mastering drawing the human figure by jack faragasso (you can find free pdf's of it) and giovanni civardi's books.

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>>2331834
thank you very much, I really appreciate your commentary

>>2331823
Never draw the hair in single individual strokes. Always map out the bulk of the shadows together, otherwise it looks like flat thinning hair, like she's balding.

>>2331823
blog?

>>2331854
But my pencil is way too sharp, are there any tips for doing this method?

>>2331855
joking me right?

>>2331856
no lol i just wanna know if u
have a blog
why would i joke u

>>2331860
no hidden message/10

>>2331856
Pencil too sharp? You mean the lead is too hard right? What pencils are you using?

If the pencil edge is too sharp break the tip. I would also get a small set of graphite pencils at different hardnesses. 2h through 6b or the like. For blending you can use paper stumps. Really it's less about the pencil and more about the application. Learn how to crosshatch , or stipple, or soft blend. Either way.

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>>2331641
A beginner looks like this.

>>2331860
I actually don't, but I'll create one when I feel confident enough... next year maybe?
thank you btw

>>2331864
I'm using a 2B, I had a 6B but I lost it
thanks for the reccomendations, I'm looking foward to learn new techniques, I've always been "self-taught" so I actually never studied books or exercises and I hope I can change this

>>2331866
inb4

>>2331871
>never studied books or exercises

Go to the book thread and download as much as you can anon.

>>2331298

You're a faggot anyway. That's also not a study, it's some bad weeb stylisation.

>>2331874
ok, I'll check them soon! ^_^

>>2331812
nah, man i jump between here, k, and b. the slower boards seem least affected, so i think an hiro might be tampering with things again. that's how it went last time he did.

>>2331503
Definitely want to push darker values, even though that was already said. Just look at the cheek and how light you kept it.

>>2331281
Where is the big nose senpai?

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>>2331877
missed you, my number 1 best hater
>>2331885
for you

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>>2331344
Thanks for the ref

>>2331891

lol, I've never seen you before.

Seems like you're insecure about more than one person criticising your art.

>>2331891
we told you having a name makes it too easy, you know deep inside you cheated.

>>2331910
ive had someone be very persistent so i assumed.
>>2331913
meta

>>2331922
>meta.
don't gimme that shit,we all know the is only like 5 people in this whole board...cheater

>>2331930
anybody have legit numbers though? We're at least 400 actives.

>>2331941
not really.

>>2331970
if you look at the amount of people we cycle through, the at least 50 regulars, the people who look but dont post, look at the whore yourself out threads, look at the question threads then look at all the decent artists who come once in a while. Nearly all american pros know about i/c, I cant imagine were less than 400. Also look at all the people in the skype friends and meetups.

Maybe people space their posts and improve too much and i count them as 2 people. Thats possible.

>>2331973
>whore yourself out threads
this is the point where i would kill the trip but hey, its your game.
>Nearly all american pros know about i/c
c'mon now...kill the trip, you will regret it also whuuu? we are still a secret club really, believe it or not we are very small.

>>2331877

Are you one of those morons who think "study = carbon copy it as closely as possible"?

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:^(

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>>2331648
>>2331675
Thank you for the positive comments guys, but really, I do belong here

>>2331690
And thank you for this. I really should know all this stuff, I feel like I've studied it enough but when I composed this, all I was just focused on making a strong 1 point perspective. I really do need to think more before diving right in. as for now, I'm going to move some things around and brighten the tree, but I wont do anything too drastic. Ill keep this in mind when I am working on my next piece. Thanks a ton!

you rock beginner thread!

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>>2331982
i know he was attacking him, but everytime i refer to something as a study. this is the definition i take on : <<trying to convey as much information within a set of restrictions (time,strokes,style) >> so hes not that far off.

I do agree its not a study and is closer to some bad weeb stylization. I barely even looked at the original i was just trying to fit in the time limit.

>>2331990
you dont belong her gtfo seriously before i report you.

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>>2331690

That was a good critique. I didn't even draw it and it helped me anyway.

>>2331905

This is really nice anon, I like your colors.

How good is Hogarth? Like I know what this question sounds like but I'm really fucking loving his figures and I was wondering if he makes any mistakes commonly that I should watch out for when trying to emulate his work.

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i drew this earlier today, how can i improve?

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Drawing of today, still practising portraits as supplement to Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain. Drawing the right proportions came easier than yesterday.

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>>2332011
ref

>>2332009
Didn't you say the exact same yesterday?

>>2332009
make it a smaller image you cuck.

>>2332007
Should clarify I'm talking about Burne Hogarth

>>2332017
>Burne Hogarth
He's good.
dynamic figure drawing is really good.

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>>2332007
hogarths figures made me gay

not that im complaining

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>>2332017
Hogarth is good but he gets a lot of flak for how pronounced his figures' musculature, facial features and so on are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUhVCoTsBaM

>>2332037
can you please not promote spam in a dedicated thread

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Can anyone please walk me through how to break the leftmost image up into basic shapes? I'm a fucking idiot and I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm completely incapable of not severely fucking this up.

I just started trying to draw for the first time since I was like 6.

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is the reason i suck because I have never practiced or studied drawing or learnt anything about it?
I've drawn and painted all my life but plateaued at like 15yrs and in the last 5 I just CAN'T get technically better at all

>>2332055
smaller and straight up please.

>>2332047
3 shapes anon. Y'know, like think about what's behind what you see.

>>2332047

Have you done your time drawing actual basic shapes? Likes spheres and cubes? Your attempts give me the impression that forms haven't really clicked for you just yet. None of your shapes are three dimensional in any way.

>>2332070
Fuck I meant 3D.

>>2332055
>I've drawn and painted all my life
How is it possible to draw for 5+ years and not practice or study anything while drawing, aside from having developmental limitations like that one Pokemon progress meme? Before you should even start reading Loomis or Norling or anyone else, you really need to sit down and reconsider HOW you're drawing if you're not practicing with even the shittiest, laziest, 5 minute doodle.

If you want to get technically better, you need to start to thinking in simplified cubes, spheres, cylinders, etc. They don't need to be anally perfect; just understand them. You don't even need to fucking draw a hundred rectangular prisms to learn and get the concept. Just look around you and simplify things to basic shapes in your head. Unless you're purposely setting out to draw a stick figure or a flat cartoon strip character, you need to apply this to your drawings. That's a big part of the foundation for drawing.

Tl;dr: Just read Loomis or something. You don't need to draw each lesson/diagram painstakingly, or at all. Just apply the concepts they teach to each new drawing.

>>2331985
note that every picture is not good to study, ie. op a shit

>>2332055
>do i suck because i don't make an effort to get better?
do you even read the words you type? i'd like to see what goes on in your head for you to not figure this out for yourself.

someone who only does addition and subtraction of basic numbers is not going to become good at math. you have to study multiplication, division, equations, factors, etc.

>>2332070
>>2332077
I somehow thought you were supposed to do shapes first in 2D, and I was really struggling to see any shapes in the nose. Guess I'll draw basic shapes then. Better than sitting there and redrawing the same line for 20 minutes and still not understanding what is wrong with it.

>>2332092
I was almost scared to reply to your other post because I had no idea what you meant until you corrected it.

>>2332094
I've read loomis (fun with pencil) and plenty of other shit and done all of the excersises a thousand times and nothing stuck

>>2332105
I find that hard to believe, mostly because it seems like you'd inevitably would learn construction and other fundamentals even if you drew with no guidance, especially after 1+ years. What don't you get? Do you have issues with visualizing 3D forms in your head?

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>>2331239
lot of subtle things off, i need to be more patient when i'm mapping shit out

>>2332119
Do some construction next time, enjoy your time man, as long as you're learning something.

>>2332119
This >>2332120

>>2332127

What's the point of you doing that? Are you lending weight to his critique with your expertise or something?

>>2332130
if it was reddit i wouldve upvoted it but i cant do that so im showing approval of good advice. I was literally about to say that when his post came up

>>2332130
Shutup anon baka
Nosebro senpai is the best

>>2332134
For my number one (and only) fan I will become the nose bro i/c needs.

>>2332120
>>2332127
oh jeez that's awkward cuz i started with some head abstractions and shit. how do i avoid flattening out structures so that i rely less on value to create depth

>>2332138
you can practice on the picture itself and build things on the picture out of form.
from there you can see how you could possibly build the forms and then do it on your own.

>>2331982

No I'm one of these morons that think when you study an image you should actually be gathering from it, not completely re-interpreting it and ignoring 99% of the info in it.

>>2331992

>+1 for taking my critique in good spirits

>>2331711
anon listen to this guy>>2331787

also on what size canvas are you working on?
i think the canvas size you are working on is too small (ex: 1000X800 is very small)

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Not sure how to proceed with this. I really want to finish something for once. I think i should get some values down, then some color?

>>2332344
Stop doing that and practice drawing cubes and forms until you get the idea, so you can construct stuff properly

>>2332346
Got it. I'll draw the best damned boxes this world has ever seen.

>>2332350
http://drawabox.com/

Do these exercises, try to understand them and apply this to your own work
Good luck man!

>>2332350

While the anon's suggestion has merit, and you should certainly do some basic shapes as well, if you want to finish something, finish something. You can learn plenty adding a little polish even while you're beginning.

Are you working from a reference or from imagination? Either way, I say trying to add some values isn't a bad idea. Try to suggest form in black and white, I'd say don't worry much about color until you've got a good grasp of value and form. Remember, if you're trying to add value, you need to think of what direction your light is coming from and do your shading with that in mind.

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>>2332362
I did the pose and gesture from imagination, but used reference on clothing/armor because I'm completely unfamiliar with it.

>>2332368

That's fine, nothing wrong with references, especially when starting out. You gotta build that visual library somehow.

>>2331690
5 fucking star post

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>>2331709
fix this part and the likeness will be golden

>>2331344
Just learn to draw complex forms brah. Doing things with boxes and pyramids is just a way of making things easier, it's not mandatory. If you have trouble understanding a form I'd recommend you either try to animate a turnaround or sculpt it.

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I've probably spent too much time on this, anyway critique please

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first time drawing a person using right side of the brain method
is it alright to modify your drawing if it seems wrong (and ignoring what you see )?
his eyes are suppose to be in the middle of the face right ?
also it needs to be 100% accurate?

>>2332012
natalie portman?

>>2332492
yes

>>2332009
>how can i improve?
>just a stylized face

general anatomy studies
environment drawings/paintings
get better at drawing forms
lighting
color theory
don't chop your image off at the neck, do full-bodies

for now you should worry more about the actual drawings than trying to color them, i guess? I don't really know what kind of critique you were expecting to get from a drawing like this.

>>2332478
Break that bitch down into basic shapes, hoe! Literally, just shapes, nothing more. It's like playing with Legos, only drawing :D

is it wrong to start from the head when drawing a person? There's books that say the first line you should put down is the spine or the general gesture, whatever. But the problem with this is that you don't know how long of a line you'll need.

If you draw the head first and then use the head as a unit of measurement for the rest of the body.

>>2332631
If this was the 1800s, you'd be laughed at for starting from the head. But now, a lot of people recommend it. Loomis, Vilppu, Hampton, etc. It helps establish your proportion of your entire figure.

Eventually, down the line it doesn't matter how you start. But at a beginner level, best start with the head or whatever you're reading suggests. Like I mention, head simply establishes your proportion since everything is measured by head's length.

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>>2332625
thanks nigga I know I'm on the right track now.
I did this right before doing the study

>>2332637
how do people do it otherwise? Do you just have enough experience that you can gauge the length of the line? I mean you don't need to finish the head but I usually like to at least draw the ball, the chin and establish what direction the person is facing.

>>2332642
Holy fuck, anon that's 100 times better.
Now check the proportions. Does it look off? Try doing this about 6 times. Check all 6, and see which one looks best.

Remember, you're not trying to Copy it, you're trying to Study it. With this method, you'll be able to create it from imagination.

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>>2332643
>Do you just have enough experience that you can gauge the length of the line?

I feel as though I don't I have it down. Maybe close? Normally, now when I draw I start with the head (depending on position) and already have an idea of how many heads tall they are. I have an imaginary line at the feet as I draw out the body.

Proportion was a huge weakness of mine, and I study the shit out of it. I'm willing to share some techniques with you, if you'd like more feedback on that. After a few months, you kind of measure without even thinking about it.

>>2332649
well as of now i'm just making sure everything fits the 8 head measurement, thanks for the offer but i was mainly just curious how people get the measurements right the first time without measuring it.

>>2332631
>>2332637
>>2332643
i like to start with a curved I-shape for the line of action/hips/shoulders that establishes the proportion and gesture, and then immediately draw ovals to represent the head and the rib cage, then build from there


the problem with starting from the head is you're not building from the center of the body, you're tacking a body onto something

but whatever works better for you is probably alright

>>2332643
you just draw a line and then build off of it
the length of the line of action doesn't matter, it's just there for a guide to build off of, i guess? once you get the hang of basic proportions, you'll figure it out easy

guide lines are not the finished image, they're called 'guide lines' for a reason

>>2332652
>8 head
this isn't actually right
humans are closer to 7 heads tall, on average. the only reason for the 8 head rule is that it's slightly easier to measure the half way point

>curious how people get the measurements right the first time
mileage
you'll feel it out eventually
doing a lot of figure drawing helps, of course

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>>2332656
i use 8 because that's what's in loomis' figure drawing book

>>2332652
>but i was mainly just curious how people get the measurements right the first time without measuring it

Practice. Lots of it.
Eventually, you're gonna look at certain body parts like half the leg and use that to measure like the torso or whatever just with vision alone. If you do this a lot, sometimes you'll measure something without even thinking about it.

For example, usually the Sternum on the rib cage is about 1 head's length tall. From the Sternum, you can find the arc that connects to the bottom of the rib cage. There, you got yourself the upper body. If the Sternum looks longer than the head (if standing right in front of you), obviously something won't look right.

>>2332656
>the only reason for the 8 head rule is that it's slightly easier to measure the half way point

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I simply said the 8 heads tall method because everyone else calls it that. But what you said is correct. Normally when I draw my characters, they're normally 6 heads tall to get a more cute/cartoonish appeal. So yeah, it various.

>>2331281
steven universe nose

>>2332482
i mean, it depends on what you're trying to achieve with your drawing/the reference you're using

if you're doing a study draw what you see as best as you can and try and improve your eye. if you're using reference to help you create a figure/character/whatever take what you want

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Apparently I have no understanding of anatomy
I just want to draw like Simon

Quick question. Do you a) keep your paper/tablet centrally in front of your body, keep the elbow out and thus maneuver around your torso from the side or b) have the paper/tablet to the side, keeping your elbow in and only draw away from your torso instead of having to maneuver around it?

>>2332686

People might shit on you for stylizing but I think it's pretty cute, anon.

>>2332482

Don't feel obliged to copy your reference unless that's the whole point of you doing the drawing. You have license to pay attention to whatever features you want, idealize what you want, remove what you want, change what you want, etc.

Every now and then trying to copy directly is good for training your eye, though.

>>2332716
What do you prefer?
Is your tablet large or small?
Mines small so I just have mine resting on my lap, I dont have to worry about where my elbow is because its right in front of me.

>>2332716

I keep mine in front of me, I didn't realize anybody kept it off to the side.

>>2331690
I think it'd be more accurate to describe atmospheric perspective in terms of contrast instead of value. Regardless, it's a fair critique

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Critique the shit outta me. I wanna improve.

>>2332771
Read the sticky.

>>2332794
Thanks for the great insight on helping me develop my art skills.

Seriously, every fucking time I ask for fucking help on this fucking shitty board it's always some shitfuck memelord who doesn't even draw shit posting and telling me to "read le stick" or "le loomis XD". The beginner thread is a joke.

>>2332771
can't you see what's wrong with it?
what critique do you expect?

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>>2332800
No one is being a dick. It's the truth. In order to understand drawing, you need to learn How To Draw. The sticky teaches you just that, how to draw. If you're going to be a bitch about it, then you'll never learn.

>>2332800
Okay here's a critique:

You have only the slightest grasp of proportion, but your construction is lacking. It does not look like a 3d form but rather just lines marked down on paper. You need to map out the forms of the body and proportion beforce you make a definite contour line. The shoulders are too hunched and have a natural downward slope . The head is all face . The head always extends behind the neck you need to move it a bit further back. The breast are a little uneven and look rigid. Again imagine the body in 3d forms. The breasts are like water balloons that hang off the ribcage. The hands, feet, and vulva are lazy symbols, rather than a representation of of what they should be.

Proko on youtube has various videos on anatomy.
The book thread has various books on different methods of constructions including, loomis, giovanni civardi, bridgeman, hogarth and reilley.

Hogarth and reilley are good for drawing from imagination. Bridgeman and civardi are good for drawing from life.

Loomis (if you have bothered to heed advice from others and read his books) are a good introduction for seeing the human head and anatomy as 3d forms that you can construct. Fun with a pencil is an obvious example, even though monotonous and simplistic, is a good intro to construction.

Loomis is a meme, but he's also a good resource.

>>2332686
your squashing your facial features downwards as if the nose is pushing on the mouth but the head isnt seen from a higher angle.
>>2332676
have never seen the show.

>>2332771
not a critique but use a reference and study fundamentals/anatomy.

At this point there's nothing to critique, it's all just guesswork and symbol drawing since you don't know any proper body anatomy

>>2332895
>>2332835
Don't bother responding, people like that don't pay attention. They just want to whine.

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Why is it so hard to make a drawing look like the actual person?

>>2332918
draw bigger and keep comparing horizontally and vertically where starts to turn, look at the angles, the negative space. Its not any harder than any other object.

>>2332918
It's especially hard if you're not looking at the reference bab.

Look at the length of the nose. Look at how much smaller they eyes are or how the eyebrows are not nearly as square as you drew them.

Your drawing doesn't look bad, but you're not looking at the reference so it looks nothing like her.

>>2331248
I appreciate this guide.

Im trying my best to learn the absolute basics techniques in drawing and running with them. I tried playing piano but studied way too much music theory, and theory on technique. I dont want to make that mistake again with drawing. I want to keep it simple.

>>2332922
>>2332926
Ok thanks guys, I'll work on it

>>2332354
thanks for the link, anon. really helping me drawing perspective

>>2332771
>>2332800
It's literally, absolutely impossible - IMPOSSIBLE - to make you improve by giving critique on a single drawing at your level. We can tell you to work on construction and proportion, but that won't make you improve. That'll tell you WHERE to improve. In order to actually improve these things you need to read Loomis, Hogarth, Vilppu or Proko, also know as the content in the fucking sticky.

Consulting the sticky isn't more convenient for us, it's more convenient for you you fucking retard. There's no way around it, anon. There's no magical critique that makes you better. The fastest way to improve is to read the resources in the sticky, stop being a little faggot.

>>2332800

Then fuck off. The sticky has exactly what you need, or do you think some anon has the magic answer that a large collection of books and tutorials don't?

You already (should) know exactly what needs to be improved. You're not at the level where an in-depth critique would do you any good, and there's no in-depth critique to give besides "improve everything".

Stop being such a baby. The problem isn't the thread, the problem is you, and if you want a miraculous quick and easy answer to all your problems from here you're in the wrong place.

>>2332800
I'm one of those that really try to be nice and helpful here, I'm totally against shitposting and all these meme jokes, but >>2332794
made a really nice post, it was relevant, direct and polite.

When you're still a beginner it's pretty hard to point a specific issue, because everything needs work and for that, all you need is read the sticky and work in your foundations.

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I'm practising DotRSotB portraits. Why does it lack resemblance to ref: >>2332012 ?

>>2331562
some are really nice like 4,5,6

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>>2332686
I like it, my only problem is probably the shape of the head is weird compared to her body

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Decided to actually buckle down and study something. First ever "study" of skulls. Is there hope for me senpai?
>general c&c, be as nitpicky as you want

>>2333119
ill re redline this because youre giving off anti information give me a couple minutes.

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>>2332918
observe relationships and shapes more closely, it doesn't look like youre really symbol drawing because I see form/shape in your drawing but they're not the shapes or proportions that's in the reference so it looks off

I tried to fix it, mine still didn't capture the likeness that really but hopefully it helps a bit.
The biggest thing I noticed is how wide you made her face and just general relationships. Also fill the hair and add the highlights, dont make strands. Spend extra time observing what's actually there and look at relationships. Leave the drawing and come back to it after a couple of hours and fix mistakes you see

>>2333159
oh my bad then, curious to see what's wrong

>>2332720
>People might shit on you for stylizing

Not really, since the stylization tends more to western cartoons than anime.

>>2332720
People will only shit on stylized stuff when it's badly stylized which is almost always the case in these threads. And the general consensus here is if it's badly stylized you need fundamentals

>>2333161
fuck I already see so many things wrong with my critique

>>2333186
Then criticize your critique.

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>>2333119
>>2333159
>>2332686
sorry for the wait i was eating

basically redline was wrong becaue it addressed the least important thing and addressed it wrongly. You could just fix the jaw ( as opposed to the ear) and assume the eyes take more space. Besides tons of smalls flaws everywhere like the eyes arent drooping at the same level and the tilt of the head isnt account for in the nose but well just ignore all those

This is admittedly a very cheap redline so im detaching it from myself hopefully. take text as more valuable than strokes.

>>2333133
draw 100 more of each view from ref then move to 3/4 views

>>2333201
Haha. Obviously. Part of studying is grinding away :^)

But just as a first attempt how am I looking?

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>>2333188
ha good point, well I tried again, I don't even know what's wrong I just know it doesn't look like her. I know the mouth was out of perspective and then nose looked weird

>>2333189
ah, my redline was just pointing out how long that jaw is because of where the placement of the ear is, you did good fixing it

>>2333202
Not him but it looks like shit. The good part is that if you start practicing with some good tutorials and stuff, you will rapidly improve.

First attempts don't mean much, by the way. Just keep practicing

>>2333217
Kek, mind elaborating which part looks like shit?

>>2333212
Improve the ears and apply shades under her nose

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looking for any comments since I am lonely..

>>2333261
Happy New Year

>>2333261
why do you have to mention your loneliness here anon, either way I hope you feel better. On topic, your forehead looks a bit weird

>>2333278
Because when you're lonely, any interaction feels better. And just letting it out there feels better.

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>>2333226
compare (ignore the teeth on the reference)

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What does it mean by cut off the sides of the sphere? How do I draw that? Do I have to physically erase parts of the sphere or draw a circle on the sphere?

>>2333287
You just have to imagine the form of the sphere that is flat on the sides. Can you not imagin the 3d form?

>>2333287
Just draw the circles representing the side planes of the head.

>>2333289
it takes practice to vizualize form, why degrade someone

>>2333133
sharpen your pencil, anon

>>2333287
this video shows what that cutting off part means really good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EPNYWeEf1U

>>2332009
thanks doc

>>2333296
I'm not degrading them I'm asking so I can try to help.

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>>2333271
Happy new year to you too!
>>2333278
Thank you I do, fixed the forehead a bit.
>>2333280
mhm

How do you determined a line above the Horizon Line with Perspective? For example, say you're looking down a hall way. How do you determined the angles on the top corner of the hallway?

>>2333281
Thanks. I can see a lot of places to improve.

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>>2333324
Ive always found the horizon line stuff to be useless. Just think of where the ground plane is and think of stuff in 3d and shapes, also think of the camera. Like when the camera is on the floor you see more of the top

>>2333341
>Ive always found the horizon line stuff to be useless

I thought it was usually a "training wheel" kind of thing till you got an understanding of perspective. However, I understand the camera idea you stated. Sure thing, I'll try that.

>>2333343
I guess it is maybe, I just found it really weird and too "calculated" if that makes sense

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>>2333281
Hopefully this is better? Sorry if I'm being pushy, just wanna improve some.

>>2333316
Looks a little like saccstry.

>>2333287

Imagine if you had a ball of clay and you sliced the side off. It's just about imagining things three dimensionally.
It can be hard to get your brain in the mindset for it, but once it clicks you can improve a lot.

>>2333352
yeah that's a lot better. just keep doing these and get it to the point you can draw and understand the forms of the skull from memory. also go through these and practice the basic head shape a lot

http://visual-science.com/projects/3d-model/skull/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EPNYWeEf1U

>>2333358
Thanks a ton.

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Well this is my situation anons really want
to advance to the next step, Yes, I know, gesture, anatomy proportion, etc.

..but in what order should I learn? Anatomy
first ?, or gesture drawing ?, or all at once?,
is that it is really frustrating to be stuck and
feel that you do not advance , any advice from someone~ ?

by the way please critique my study, I pretty lazy so these days I really I done nothing really good

>>2333370

Sorry for the bad English btw

>>2333370
proportion>gesture>anatomy

>>2333373
gesture>proportion>anatomy

>>2333385

gesture>anatomy>proportion

>>2333389
loomis>everything

>>2333389
a drawing with really bad proportions and good gesture will not look good at all compared to a drawing with really good propotions and bad gesture. Of course gesture is still reallly important but proportions is like the fundamental thing you need to get right for a drawing to look appealing
Proportion>gesture>anatomy

>>2333385
Though proportions and anatomy are almost the same thing, proportions are definitely more important than anatomy, with good proportions you can get away with alot

>>2333405
>a drawing with really bad proportions and good gesture will not look good at all compared to a drawing with really good propotions and bad gesture.

I dunno, I've seen (and drawn) some well proportioned and carefully measured things that looked stiff and absolute garbage, and I've seen some really nice, fluid gestures that weren't terribly proportional.

>>2333408
yeh those fluid gestures still have decent proportions or else they'd look like shit, it's really a stupid question cause all 3 go hand in hand

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come on /ic/ tear me a new one

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>>2333418
another drawing so you guys can critique better

>>2333418
First off, clean up your lines. Get one of those white rubber or kneaded erasers.Practice drawing smooth lines.
Study up on anatomy and construction. The anatomy on the dinosaur is alright, but you really need to study up on humans. The hand, for example, is kinda mangles, and the lower legs are really tiny. You should also look into fabric folds. The cape on the guy doesn't have much stricture to it, it bends like a piece of putty or play-do rather than cloth.

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I need critique /ic/, gimme what you got

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>>2333449
Pic related, what I used as reference

>>2333373
>>2333385
>>2333389
>>2333408

So the most important thing I need to get right is proportion, and later gesture and anatomy?

>>2333370

So nobody critique hmm, .. well still looks stiff I suppose :/

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Trying to draw snakes. Drew this one, then realized the mouth/perspective is off. Also, the scales could be better. Come to think of it, the whole thing's trash.

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Continued drawing snake heads. These are straight garbage. Any advice?

I have essentially zero practice drawing on paper and I'm going to start practicing on a graphics tablet, should I just follow the typical tutorials just on the tablet?

>>2333458
>>2333460

>1kpx

>>2333460
Try doing realism rather than focusing on a style.

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Forgot to re-size

>>2333449
Use a ruler to get a very straight base sketch.

try drawing with the reference upside down (also drawing upside-down) so your mind forgets that your drawing a revolver and you'll end up just daring that shades and shapes!

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>>2333370
look at these relationships that you lost

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Is perspective good on this?

>>2333475

Honestly don't know how to resize it properly. how do compute

>>2333488

Thanks. I'll practice more snakes like that

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>decide to try out some anatomy, havn't drawn in awhile.
>at first it's goin' good, leg looked alright to me, moving on the the head
>...
>FUCK ART WHY DO I EVEN TRY

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Whats the best way to start coloring this?

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>>2331234
I've tried reading Loomis but it feels like I'm not really getting it. Do I just power through that until I do or should I pick up another book, if so what would you recommend for an absolute beginner? Is Keys to Drawing a good start?

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Using OP from the last thread. First concerted effort at copying a picture - any critique appreciated, especially regarding pen drawings. The belly proportions are fucked and I think the tip I used for shading was way too small.

On a related note, I noticed I chickenscratched for the pencil base (I cleaned it up afterwords). Does it just take practice to stop?

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Just fuck my shit up

>>2333530
you got caught within the meme that just reading gets you better. Keep doing the exercises and keep drawing. Reading is like a multiplier to your exercises but if you dont exercise...
>>2333526
super long neck and looks like a trace but assuming it isnt a trace leave the beginner thread you graduate.
>>2333502
no and im not willing to redline just keep praticing and build things out of boxes.

>>2333538
arm is 2 eye lengths horizontally yours is 3.4 so go from there.

>>2333546
Thanks for the feedback, but you didn't really answer my question. Of course I'm going to keep drawing and doing exercises, that's obvious. I want direction, not a cookie cutter answer. By start I meant the practical use of books.

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>>2333546
Isn't actually a trace, i just don't know how tf to actually color this nicely

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haven't drawn digitally in a while, wanted to try something from imagination. i've definitely messed up the proportions but was wondering if there was something else i should be paying attention to?

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>>2333568

learn how to paint first.

but really. you need to make hard, confident shadows.

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It's been a while since I've drawn but I started this. Any thoughts or suggestions?

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>>2333578
For some reason it came out sideways

>>2333581

Resize it while you're at it.

>>2333572
can you rec anything to help learn how to paint correctly on a digital tablet?

>>2333584

Stop thinking of it as a digital tablet that makes painting easier. They are literally the same thing.

Just go reach dynamic light and shade and then do the exercises in the book.

>>2333554
what is the kind of answer you want ill try to generate it from the info tyou give me
>>2333568
how the fuck do you have goo head anatomy but shit everything else? reffing?

i just got a new rig so i can work in big canvas now. i feel the need to express how fucking difficult it is to work bigger. jesus fuck

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need help, probably should just trash it and continue to something else though

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>>2333606
Not reffing, anyways this is a pretty basic simple face. I just don't have a volumetric understanding of the hair and I'm having trouble placing highlights and shadows.

Do you need to understand traditional painting to grasp digital painting? Or is it okay to jump right into digital painting?

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>>2331235
Hey guys, i really want to thank everyone who participates in the /ic/ beginner threads i made some great progress this year and i could not have done it with out you guys. Thanks for the plentiful advice, the refs and sources. On to 2016 maybe i'll finally learn how to render this year! Happy new year, we're all going to make it!

(crits are always welcome)

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drawing clothes is hard

>>2332686
i like it and your lines

>>2331426
thanks man

>>2333373
>>2333405

What are ways to practice proportions? How would you train your eye to see proportions correctly?

>>2333189
Thx Anons

>>2333189
Just curious anon, how did you go about finding these errors? What type of measurement or studies did you use to apply the fixes here?

No matter how hard I try I cannot accurately draw a figure. I'm getting peeved, bros.

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I just need to know if I am still symbol drawing.

>>2333526
welcome to eb games

>>2333797
yes badly

Is it normal to get fucking frustrated at all the garbage you draw? I hate myself for all this shit I produce with minimal improvement and I'm beginning to hate drawing now. Yet, I want to git gud and draw the shit I want. At the same time I feel like quitting too.

>>2333816
Draw something goofy to shake the anger off.

>>2333740
Don't focus too much on proportions, then. Try doing a few proportion studies once or twice a day. Hell, even print out a image of a live model, trace it using basic shapes. You may find yourself drawing specific body parts too long/big. But for your main exercise, just try Figure Drawing and breaking objects down into simple shapes. Do these 2 a lot. Eventually, you'll notice your proportion eye has gotten a lot stronger, even though you did very little study on it.

>>2333832
You should look at your work and see why it's ass. Post your shitty work. Give us your REALLY shitty work. Just know you have to be willing to put in the work in order to improve.

>>2333835
you asked if you were still symbol drawing, i gave you the answer. nose, lips, eyes, hair....all symbols

>>2333797
its kinda in the middle. but more towards the symbol end of the spectrum. you're construction is fine and everything is in proportion (except for the lips, theyre too small) you should ditch the red ball point pen style that abso fucking lutely no one uses to draw with and jump into grey scale painting. then you can focus on putting more detail in

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>>2333836
Sure thing. I'm pretty sure I'm symbol drawing.

>>2333664
if you use /ic/ as a measure, about 1% of all painters on here use traditional so ill go with no. is it better to start out with pencil and paper for drawing though

>>2333626
be more specific with what you need help with

>>2333578
try using the editor in your phone to rotate it, save it, then rotate to the orientation you want, saving it again, then posting

>>2333526
soft brush, low opacity. its all on you to figure out human skin colors but if you want her to be with go with red/orange/dark yellow hues

>>2333844
I see where the anger lies. You're construction isn't bad, you are on the right path, but it looks like you're trying to stylize. Don't attempt that yet, you're not at that stage just yet.

Granted, it shouldn't be ignored. Sometimes, you should look at your favorite art, and try to draw it. BUT, don't draw your favorite art the way it is, Study your favorite art.

Here's an example of what I mean:
http://www.ctrlpaint.com/videos/constructive-form-pt-1

Keep the stylization low on your list of things to learn. You're going to have a lot of question, such as "why does X artists do this. Why does X artists do that when drawing this" etc etc. The more you continue with fundamentals, the easier it becomes to understand why those choices are made. Remember, you're learning how to draw a realistic body and face so that your stylize characters look Believable. That's the key word here. You want to make something that is Believable.

Otherwise, continue with your heads.
Don't worry about your animu chins and eyes. Keep that for a different study.
Continue from here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EPNYWeEf1U

A lot of animu artists love Proko and Vilppu, so... there's that.

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statue study. i should look at more anatomy shit, namely hands/legs/feet. i posted a girl study earlier in the thread, if anyone cares

>>2333855
Kinda whatever is off, and making it look finished

>>2333887
her hips to shoulders are close to 1:1. thats bad unless the statue is leaning really fucking far back. hands are too wide it seems. her right forearm looks long. its hard to say without the reference.

>>2333907
add a neck, shoulders, upper torso or crop the rest out so its just a face. more detail to the hair. maybe add a background. technically it looks like you grasp loomis and it's heavily stylized so its hard to say. its your imagination.

>>2333919
>>2333927
>its hard to say
maybe im not someone to listen to now that i read those

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>>2333919
here's the ref so you don't second-guess yourself as much bud

>>2333969
like i said, shoulders are too wide, especially her right. she has man deltoids. also the waist 'pinch' is wxagerated on that side which makes the shoulders look even wider. her left side should be a lot straighter than you have it drawn. left boob isnt large enough. and hands are def too big

tldr check proportions, measure, check how things line up etc

>>2333887
Did a bee sting her on the deltoid?