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Why is everyone on this board so mean?
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You are currently reading a thread in /ic/ - Artwork/Critique

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Why is everyone on this board so mean?
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>>2330394
it's just one mental person shitposting.
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>>2330395

1 out of all 10 of us?
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They want to feel superior while trying to sound cool and funny, not to mention it's a good oportunity to release their frustrations.
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I dunno I've been around 4chan for a fairly long time and I've figured my self callouse to the toxic nature of the site. I mean getting called nigger everyday can do that but I come to this board and gosh darnit the words here really sting
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>>2330394
because nobody here actually draws
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>>2330407
>I've figured my self callouse to the toxic nature of the site
I think that's the only good thing about /ic. If you can post here and still keep doing your thing, nothing will ever be able to break you.
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>>2330406

Don't speak for everyone
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>>2330446
I'm not like that myself, I actually try to be nice and helpful, but the majority of /ic is indeed here just to be as mean as possible so they can feel good about it.

But if you do have a good explanation on why /ic is so mean and always so angry and salty about everything, tell me, I would like to know your opinion.
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>>2330394
When nearly every post is somone who hasn't read loomis asking for critique and there's not a single big boi in sight. Yea, i get pretty fucking mad.
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>>2330475
This. How the fuck are you supposed to deal with people who want to learn how to drawn anime without learning the fundamentals?
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>>2330434
That's a pretty positive way of looking at it
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>>2330394
As someone who gets picked a lot here, I would say it's part crab mind, pure trolling by people who don't even draw, the casual shitposting and over harshness that comes by anonymity.

I still come here because I'm self taught, I know no artists irl and the few people I know think I'm really good at drawing/painting which I honestly don't think it's the case.

Also when I request other community suggestions most people say that there are no other art communities worth participating in
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>>2330434
Very true. I've seen people lose their shit over irl critiques. Others seem shocked when I tell them that I post my work online only for strangers to tell me to kill myself. Only makes me stronger.
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ITT: Retreat zone from my harsh words

Step outside the ring fellas~
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>>2330493
Post your work. If you're BBC, you're fucking stagnating. You suck at perspective, your lifted style is ugly, and you draw the same faces every fucking time. No one is trolling you (if you're BBC) you're just bad.
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>>2330475
>>2330481
According to this logic, when you enter an art school to learn things new to you, you should probably be insulted all day long instead of being taught how to do these new things.

I understand losing patience with people that were already advised and are just being stubborn or delusional, but I see lots of gratuitous agression around here.
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Because I actually give a shit about this board.
I want people to actually get good. There's so many beginners here who can't take a critique, it's ridiculous. But if that's what it takes to weed out the weak, then so be it.

People need to learn how to not take critiques so personally, and to see through the shitposting.
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>>2330394
Stay in your comfort zone surrounding yourself with people who have nothing but kind words. Surely it will help you improve.
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>>2330506
Saying things like "head is too big" or "you need to work on your anatomy" has a lot a value and will make they improve, but I really can't see how things like "kill yourself, you piece of shit" will actually help anyone, in fact, that's closest definition of shitposting, it adds literally nothing.
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Because artist tend to get bitter and jaded over time as their hopes and dreams are crushed. So when they're 2% better than someone they take it upon themselves to shit on the new person just like they were when they first started.

It's really just continuing the cycle of bitchiness by cynical, whiny artists, that don't actually care about being constructive or helping others... And the ones that do consider it more a crusade to get rid of "mediocre" artists.
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>>2330394
Art is a very demanding profession to learn and the journey can be quite frustrating. Everyone who posts here, including me, has probably gotten really frustrated with their work at some point and came to /ic/ just to take out that frustration. It's easy to say this board is shit, everyone is an asshole yadda yadda, but in reality, it's quite normal for an anonymous board dedicated to a profession that is so competitive and taxing. Once artists find their own artistic voice and stop constantly comparing themselves to others, they tend to become much more chill.

I'd say the most angry and hostile artists are the ones who have left the beginner stage and just entered the intermediate stage. That's where the Dunning Kruger effect is at its strongest and all the elitism and false sense of superiority boils over all the time. We've all been there or will be there at one point, it's a natural process. The only permanent problem become the people who are permanently stuck in that phase because they gave up on art, but for whatever reason haven't given up on posting on /ic/.
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>>2330394
Because they mistakenly think that being mean is a part of good critique. Being honest is what makes critique good, but recognizing how the individual functions is important as well. Ideally, you want to push whoever is being critiqued to be better, without totally discouraging them. It varies from person to person where the limit is.

Also, anonymity.
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>>2330514
Stay in your cancer zone surrounding yourself with trolls who have nothing but insults and discouraging, rude comments. Surely it will help you with your motivation.
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>>2330545
4chan isn't the place for you pal

might I suggest facebook and deviantart?
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>>2330545
>rude people kill my motivation
How can you be this autistic? Just fucking ignore the useless replies holy shit anon grow a pair
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>>2330545
>Surely it will help you with your motivation.

It does, mostly because I'm not an insecure faggot looking to get my ego stroked on an anonymous imageboard.
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>>2330551
One place is just about receiving likes/favorites while being hypocrite saying how much you like others artwork.

The other place, 4chan, is where you'll receive all the hate and accumulated frustrations people around here have.

Sadly, a place for objetive critiques, adressing only the technical side of it is yet to be found.
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>>2330481
teach them??
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>>2330395
I have been getting this impression as well. One or a few very dedicated autistic shitposters. Someone who honestly thinks all replies to him or her are done by the same person.
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>>2330574
I don't think that's the point of this thread, it's actually a question.

It doesn't matter if you care about those mean posts, the question is why so many posts are just empty insults instead of actual critiques, pointing out the problems and possibly a way to avoid them in the future?
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>>2330574
>>2330571
>I'm completely immune to psychological aggression
Kek, keep telling yourself that.
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>>2330626
>oh no anon told me im shit
>motivation and optimism: gone
There's a difference between being immune to psychological aggression and not giving a shit about a low effort reply.
You'll get it once you start insulting people for no reason yourself. You seem to give these replies more thought than originally went into them.
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>>2330601
The people that reply Darude - Sandstorm are the people that don't know the song you're asking for. Get what I mean? If people stopped posting "ur shit" there wouldn't be more good posts, there'd just be less posts.
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>>2330626
Not him but anything negative said here doesn't carry much weight. It's the ideal place for people with mental issues to not needing to worry about the filter of moderators and and transparency of a name tag. The motivation behind a lot of the critique seen here is often questionable.

Actual good critique is done without the mental-case aggression and by people who can explain why they think something is bad and how it could be improved.
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>>2330647
>rude posters are rude because of mental issues
Whatever let's you feel superior I guess.
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>>2330656
Someone that is polite can at least be superior in character.
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>>2330656
>people being rude/obnoxious for no reason whatsoever is not a mental issue.

I bet you are one of them since you felt offended. If you think people who actually come here to meet people to learn from will actually look at anything you have to say when you act like that then some sort of delusion must be in play. I can only conclude that it must be motivate by pleasing your own ego.
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>>2330496
>Others seem shocked when I tell them that I post my work online only for strangers to tell me to kill myself
Top fucking kek
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if people were actually banned for shitposting...

wait I'm on 4chan
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>>2330401
Pretty much.
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There is no juice, unless you crush the fruit
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>>2330526
That's why it's up to the artist to sift through the shit to find the gold.

If you can't man up and take shit, you won't be able to handle public haters or even art directors.
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>>2330854
The problem is that you need to dig really deep to find the gold, only a few posts get to the point.

It's not about how I take it, personally, I don't care the insults, I just feel it's a really bad attitude to this board, that should be one of the few places to find a honest critiques.
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>>2330394
anons like to vent.

In a world run amuck by fanatical fans, affluent sjws, and vindictive man-childern , some days you just gotta vent.
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I would like to say artists in general are mostly obnoxious, pretentious cunts. Many artists, modern ones especially think their shit is ground-breaking and new, despite almost every style or form being done already. Another side as other anons have mentioned are trolls who don't even draw and just shitpost. Those kind of people need to leave, as they contribute nothing to beginners who need honest critique and good artists who want to improve.

There are ways to critique someone's work without sounding like a total dick, yet a majority of people here who critique, especially on the beginner thread, act like a bunch of pretentious dicks. It's discouraging for beginners. In all honesty, drawthreads on other boards like /tg/, /a/, or /h/ give more honest critique without being a bunch of dickfucks,
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Grow thick skin or GET THE FUCK OUT. We prepare people to get thru the real world.

Now get the hell out of this board you faggot
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If you don't like this board why don't you leave?
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>>2330502
>>2330578
there's resources in plain sight (the sticky). if you're going to spend the time to find ic and post despite being utterly clueless, what's stopping you from educating yourself with easily accessible resources? they should learn loomis on their own, they don't need anon to tell them to read loomis or read the sticky when it's there in plain sight. people who don't want to help themselves are annoying in a "ugh eyeroll & ignore" kind of way but i guess you need idiots to maintain the status quo...
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>>2330394

Other people may have already said this but /ic/ being mean is a good thing. The real world and much of nonanonymous online forums is actually a giant hugbox and echo chamber. Try taking an art class and see what I mean.

This isn't necessarily completely bad because hurting people's feelings isn't fun but you don't learn if people aren't critical. This is one of very few environments where you can get real opinions on what you do.

Also it's 4chan and shitposting is fun.
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>>2330930
>>2330948
I'm getting mixed messages here
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>>2330854
those shitposts waste everyone's time, including those who made them, you'd have more people posting on this board giving actual constructive crit if the board wasn't seen as a place filled with anger, but then again, that's mostly 4chan as a whole
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>>2330961
they're the same message, apart from the 'real world is a hugbox'
which depends on where you are, i guess
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It's, uhh, the layout of the website man. I tell you, it makes you aggresive!
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>>2330961

the real world won't be cruel to you, it will just ignore you without ever telling you why you suck, which is cruel by another name.
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>>2330948
stop trying to justify people's inability and/or refusal to communicate in a manner that doesn't come off as someone with severe socialization issues as if it should be everyone else's problem, it is theirs and theirs alone
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>>2330526
>Saying things like "head is too big" or "you need to work on your anatomy" has a lot a value
No theyre not
How small is enough?what is the proportion?
What value?not enough shading level variety? Colour didnt mix well?
Without evidence and deeper explanation
They are no better than "its good" "its bad"
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>>2330501
This speaks to me
Thanks anon! This is why i come here ive realised
Sure i could have me ego continued to be stroked by my peers but i need someone to tell me in a Gordon ramsey like voice that i suck. So i can determined and gain approval (however superficial it may be) and be a better artist altogether
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>>2330854
>If you can't man up and take shit
Don't justify your shitty interpersonnal relations with muh masculinity
We're not in a military camp, neither were you entitled to be their dad
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>>2331084
BBC is actually good. That anon is just a jelly troll.
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>>2330394
I just like to pick on people so they stop symbol drawing. Loomis is my favourite meme, it really fucks with people.
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>>2331101
Who is this BBC you all talk so much?
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>>2331117
A guy on this board who either has a big black cock or sucks on them.
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>>2330948

/ic/ crits aren't constructive or informative though 90% of the time.

they will just be vague and irrationally hateful more often than not.
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>>2330473
>they can feel good about it.
false
>
But if you do have a good explanation on why /ic is so mean and always so angry and salty about everything, tell me, I would like to know your opinion.
because of media, we hate normies, we hate people who think reaching a professional level requires talent and pass everything off because they dont have the will power.
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>>2330394
why do you care?
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>>2331186
we especially hate pretentious cunts who take it upon themself to speak for the rest of us
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Because honest words harm crybabies.
If you're shit at drawing, then accept the harsh critique, improve, and there will be compliments and nice comments. If you don't improve then don't come here. This board is not for circlejerking or soft critique, anonimity makes sure that the critique given here is really fucking harsh. There are other places like Reddit, tumblr, etc. where you can post your art and only receive positive comments about it (because honest critique and not-nice comments will be silenced).

TL;DR get out
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>>2331226

nice meme
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>>2331254
Might as well try for doubles while roasting the young fella
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>people actually trying to justify the shitposting and pass it off as constructive

i'm not going to go and make any absolute claims. there are instances where people try to be helpful, and there are instances where people are just shitposting

i believe that shitposting comes from a place of insecurity that the shit posters try to project onto others to feel good about themselves.

nobody in the industry is going to be as cunty as the people on this board. those people want to be able to find a job after they're done their current one and if they're known for saying shit like kill yourself you're never going to make it they're going to have a much harder time finding a job

so no, meanness isn't productive. people respond better to positive than negative reinforcement. it doesn't help anyone, not even the shitposter. that person is just trying to make themselves feel better instead of owning up to their insecurities.
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>>2331226
You shouldn't make a critique softer than plain honesty but many posters on /ic/ substitute spite for descriptive language. The general mentality is "if i don't understand what's wrong with X well enough to explain it I'll throw in a few shits/trash/retardeds and then call them a cry baby when they point out I haven't given them any usable information."

"This looks wrong to me. This is why I think it looks wrong to me"
minus all the ass patting and shit talking would mean a world of difference beyond what either deviantart/tumblr or /ic/ provides.

I would say though, if someone has been given a critique and continues to come back without making a solid attempt to address it, they should expect to be told a polite and respectful "fuck off".
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Step out the ring faggots I need to bully some of you.
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>>2331226
It's like that only in your utopic world.

Anonimty makes sure that the critic won't be honest most of the time, since many of them simply try to be funny to release their anger without any worry.

Most critiques here aren't even critiques since they completely lack any analysis criteria.
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>>2331667
That /ic mentality pretty well.

There are also decent people here that actually try to to help with legitimate critiques, though, that's why I still see some hope here.

Too bad even good critiques suffer from this as they get trashed into a lame discussion of people trying to prove they know more than the other.
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>>2330496
>>2330434
I feel some kind of weird motivation whenever I see someone with a dedicated shitposter. That one guy who replies to every single one of their posts trying desperately to bring them down, like that 'you suck' guy on all of BBC's posts. I kind of want to gain that, but then again I know I wouldn't really want it, but maybe it would be just what I need to finally ween myself off of the sagging sour milk teat that is /ic/.
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>>2331702
had one of those a for 4 days or so and it wasnt anything special. im not even particularly good, just start wearing a name and post enough and people will hate you!
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>>2331683

This.

You get some good critiques, and I understand the idea that the anonymity means people don't need to worry about being nice, but people also try a lot harder to not be useless, irritating assholes when their reputation isn't on the line. This is also probably why so many people refuse to post their work after flinging shit - even if they're good, they know they don't want the way they behave on this board being tied to their actual persona.
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>>2331705

I meant to say when their reputation is on the line.
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>>2331704
>just start wearing a name and post enough
That's the easy way out though. If I'm gonna try and get it, it's gotta be just based on my art for me to feel satisfied.
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sometimes /ic/ arguments are just good stress relief I guess. A healthy way to vent all that built up self loathing.
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>>2331716
blog?
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>>2331716
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>>2331716
firez pls go.
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>>2331716
The forms in that version of le firez face are a lot better than in the other versions, actually. I don't know why you keep bringing the guy up though. Just don't respond to him. What's so hard about that?
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>>2331754
you mad?
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>>2331759
naw
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>>2331754
It was just an example of shitposting man. I talk with Firez sometimes and admire him for how much he keeps trying even when he gets stuck on something or gets flamed by everyone.
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>>2331716
i love firez but this is hilarious
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How do /ic deal with harsh self critique?

I don't mind when I hear some mean critiques because I'm already really angry with my own art. Does any of you got this kind of problem?
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To be absolutely honest, I haven't felt that much negativity.

I mean, it's a given that people will have shit to say about everything that's posted here, because outrage is easy and whatever.

But I mean, I'm a beginner, I've posted my work and my studies a couple of times and weighed in on various threads, and never felt much vitriol.

I think this board is only horrible towards you if you're too smug, or not listening to other people. There'll always be nasty shit, but I frankly don't think it's that negative.
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>>2331789
You git gud?
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>>2331805
If you get better, your judgment will most likely be even sharper and you'll still think it's not good yet.
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>>2331789
if it talks down or is unnecessarily nasty, I only take what they say with a grain of salt. Comments like 'this is terrible' are worthless so I ignore them.

If it's a harsh critique in that it's really tears apart the piece itself in a respectfully forward way, I adore it. It hurts, but I absolutely love it. Sugar coating can make the medicine go down easier, but it's not necessary. But there's a difference between not-sugar-coating something and being a self-jerking twat.

Learn to spot the shitposting and ignore them. Learn to spot the sincere crits and do your damnedest to understand what they're saying and seeing. A good crit can really help you progress, so treat it that way. Someone that actually knows their shit isn't going to say things like 'this is a mess' or meme at you (loomis/sticky/etc). They either won't waste their time or will be able to point out specific things to help.

If it offers guidance or insight, it's a gift. If it casts judgement, it's worthless. Experience will help you find the line.
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>>2331826
That's a nice way to deal with it, but I'm pretty sure >>2331789 was talking about harsh self-criticism.

I can relate to that, exacerbated self-criticism can be very frustrating sometimes, even more than someone saying shit to you.
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What is needed is constructive critique but many of the "artists" here are too stupid to understand what that means and instead they just shitpost because that's what they always do elsewhere on 4chan (and beyond).
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I think whiplash said it best. It's better to have a chair thrown at your face for a shitty performance than it is to be congratulated for it, and a person will improve in order to not be insulted. The whole goal is to get your skill up to a point where you will be complimented vs getting something thrown at you.

Of course if done wrong (shitposting etc.) it doesn't help. So remember, improve enough and you probs wont get shit on
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>>2330394
IC doesn't sugarcoat it's posts. If You suck, they'Il make sure to get that message across. You want Your work to be praised no matter how shitty it is? Join LevelUp! on FB. It is more or less Deviant level shitty pieces and all of them get positive reviews. It is nothing but cancer over there. Long story shory like it here.
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>>2330394
You're in charge of your own emotions. If you get legitimately upset over dumb shit like reading mean words on the internet then that's very telling of your character.

Fucking nut up. Jesus christ.
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>>2330394
>mean
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d_jQycdQGo
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I like this place.
I hate submitting my work in art classes, only to be told "its really good!!" when it's complete shit. Come to IC, post it, get ripped apart, but get provided a really good redline and crit.

Not to mention, random words of wisdom tend to appear in the beginner every now and then. As rare as it is, it's nice to read that one line a random anon said that changes your perspective on drawing in a positive way.

My only problem with this board is how everyone here is trying to find that secret formula in getting better. If people here do more drawing than shitposting, we'd definitely see a lot more improvement.
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It's the same as the rest of 4chan. You just take it more personally and are more sensitive to it because your art is your baby.
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>>2330394
Did you already think about the possibility that it's not about everyone being mean, but you actually being shit?
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>>2331716
firez pls go
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>>2330394
I come to /ic/ when I want someone to be brutally honest with my about my work. It's good this way because they don't know who you are and you don't know who they are. This way no one holds anything back, no sugar coating it, nothing. I come here when I want to get better, not for some people to kiss the ground I walk on.

git gud m8
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>>2332710

The problem is a lot of people here confuse "brutal honesty" with "being a complete asshole and helping nobody". There's an abundance of people who really seem to think posts that shit on someone unconstructively is still helpful.
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Let's not forget that many here aren't really that qualified to give critique beyond "I don't like it" but love to pretend otherwise. A classical example is the inability to view anything in context among many here. They will instead throw up absurd or irrelevant standards. I often get the impression that many here are below the age limit.
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>>2332390
Most of them can't understand the meaning of the word "critique", they believe a plain insult is an amazing critique, that adds a lot, it's just a non sugarcoated critique.

That's ridiculous because a critique needs at some kind of analysis, otherwise it's just a superficial opinion, being an insult or a compliment.
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>>2331716
FiRez plz go
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>>2332865
FiRez is ok, I don't get all this hate,
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>>2332868
you must be new here, then.
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>>2332872
Nothing can come close to illastrat and he's still here, creating his own threads.
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>>2332879
he was wasting image limit in draw threads with the SAME IMAGE making 1pixel change, writing paragraphs of excuses as to why he doesn't follow critique and simply read the macro image, sameface and stagnation.
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>>2332880
Posting the same things over and over again without a relevant improvement can really be quite annoying indeed.
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It's probably the reason why nobody posts here. Meanwhile on /v/ and /co/ you have daily draw threads.

There is a gap between people who want to succeed and people like me who just want to draw porn and have fun. But that gap doesnt have to be as wide as it is on 4chan.
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>>2333190
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

GETOUT CASUAL.
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>>2333190

there are more draw threads here than those shitty boards you listed
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>>2333190
drawthreads on other boards aren't meant for finished pieces, just quick free sketches. You're not going to get advice to make a finished piece on those boards like you would here.
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Because the least accomplished people in the creative arts will be the most opinionated. Actually successful people are too busy doing the thing they're passionate about to bother for more than ten minutes on a board like this, while salty wanna-be iconoclast Internet Dudes will squat hours a day bitching to newcomers that don't live up to their standards.
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>>2333246

so you admitted you're a failure?
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>>2333248

Yeah, see your comment there? That's the kind of saltiness I'm talking about
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/ic should learn that being nice doesn't mean lie and sugarcoat things, you can actually give some pretty harsh critique using proper language and common sense. Just make objective observations instead of abusing of adjectives.
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>>2333275

>objective observation

Well you're a faggot. Just making an objective observation.
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>>2333312
That shows a lot about the kind of things you can add to this board.
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>>2333321

Well you haven't posted any art soo... you too?
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>>2333328
Who said I never posted any art? We're all anonymous here but based in the kind of attitude you displayed, it's just more likely to assume that you wouldn't be willing to help, but it's impossible to know for sure.
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>>2333328

Neither have you, only difference between you and him was that you're being a childish fuckwit.
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>>2333350
you sound upset.
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>I want a hugbox where everyone gives me false praise for upvotes

>>>/reddit/

Seriously, a spiteful bait reply is ten times better than someone telling you you are good at something you are not.
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>>2334005

You just don't need to act like ass, that's all, like this anon said >>2333275
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this entire thread is proof that /ic/ and 4chan as a whole is being posted on by more and more New Sincerity types.
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>>2330394
>anonymous
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>>2330948
>Other people may have already said this but /ic/ being mean is a good thing

Why do you faggot's believe this? Oh right, it's literally the only way you can feel superior is by being a dick on an anonymous image board.

Thats fucking pathetic.
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>>2334040
This.

Anonymity is basically an official license to be an asshole.

The thing about not having any kind of commitment or responsability in what you say is that, most of the time, you won't even be sincere, but just take this opportunity to say crap and see the world burn.
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>>2334017
I can act how ever the fuck I want. When I have a name attached I have to restrain myself how I normally post because it would affect how people perceive me--the false me. Names are just 'nice guy' masks and any rude comments said with your name you're given the cold shoulder by your friends. Having anonymity is essential to truthfully say what you want to say it's not about being an ass.
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I'm really tired of the current cycle of kids these days. The over emotional, no bully pls, crowd. It's a fucking disgrace to think that you'll ever create something worth a damn if you can't be told how it be. They really undermine art as a whole because they undermine the necessary skills it takes to create something good. And that's at least 80% of you fucking cowards.
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>>2334097
Are you actually saying you don't know how to critique someone without insulting them?

I can and It's pretty easy, because there's a huge difference between criticizing and being an ass.

Do you need to call people names to explain that an arm is too long? Can't you simply say that the arm is too long?
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>>2334104
Actually, it's about being objective in your critiques and bring insightful remarks, informations or discussions, instead of simply unleashing your primal rage instincts, that you seem to value much more.
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>>2334123
That's an unusual reasonable post.
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>>2334123
The problem comes when you give good, neutral, helpful critique to someone and they start crying and whining.
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>>2334130
Well then they don't deserve your cal and they've earned their nasty, but when you open with that shit you've almost guaranteed nobody wins.
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>>2330394
Because they're all bad at art and hate to be reminded of it.
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>>2334130
This so much, I've given critique ranging from actual thought out elaborated explanations on why the drawing was objectively wrong to a complete impulsive snarky remark of "its shit" and no matter on which end it is, it always gets the "you're jelly" "post your work" or "keep being salty" response. It's like you people intentionally come to this board to get the negative feedback just to spout out your little buzzword responses.

If you're not ready to get the harsh critique then why come here? The board won't "improve" by whining about it.
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>>2334130
Then it's their fault, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Simply ignore those imature enough to be mad about a civilized critique and save this board from countless useless fights.
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>>2334115
I do redlines from time to time but because I'm actually showing my skill in the process I have to pretend to be a nice guy when I'm the same shitposter you so hate.
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>>2334143
Redlines can be really interesting because they're explicit, they literally go straight to the point.

It doesn't really matter the reason why you made the redline, it added something to be discussed instead of a simply vague insult.
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>>2334151
vague insults are needed when an anon won't accept he's shit and telling him he is shit right from the get-go sets him straight
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>>2334139
>If you're not ready to get the harsh critique then why come here? The board won't "improve" by whining about it.

You said you tried both approaches, so, I would like to ask you, would you qualify both of them as equally good critiques?

Do you honestly think that saying "its shit" has the same value and information that an "elaborated explanation on why the drawing was objectively wrong"?
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>>2334174
Of course not, I was comparing the responses to one another. No matter what caliber of critique you give it's prone to get those responses.

The problem of this board isn't the "negativity" or the "bitterness" it's the people who can not divide the good critique from the bad. They always get too defensive (or atleast in most cases they do) and they'll try to justify their mistakes to death. It's frustrating writing a 3 paragraph critique just to receive "just post your work you salty jelly or your words have no merrit".
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>>2334160
>vague insults are needed when an anon won't accept he's shit
> won't accept

That implies a previous attempt to show that was made, but what usually happens is that /ic users are already set to shoot on sight, eliminating chances of a possible decent discussion that could be helpful for the posters and those just reading.

It's really sad to look a thread and just see: "it's shit", "blog?", "show your work", "fuck off"...
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>>2334185
So, since they are being a cancer to the board, will you be one as well?

I don't think I got this kind of response before, but I would never bother to reply again to this kind of people.
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>>2334151
I've tried this. Giving redlines is one of the things that frustrate me the most.

>a beginner posts a drawing
>give a redline explicitly describing all the problems with it
>"yeah ok thx I got it"
>it comes back with none of the approvements suggested

They do not learn, they will not follow your instrucions and they do not care about improving. The fad today seems to be to make a name for yourself on social media to gain an audience so that you can maintain an income from them. This in most cases takes over and they care more about their reputation/income rate rather than technical abilities.
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>>2334188
>So, since they are being a cancer to the board, will you be one as well?

Never said they are cancer.

Let me ask you this. Is it justified to ask for someone critiquing your drawigns to post their own just to see if they are worthy of giving such feedback?
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>>2334189
I think redlines can help not only the owner of the redlined art, but also those reading the thread and even the one who did the redline, teaching is a great way to learn.

If they fail to accept critiques, at least the board gained more than just silly fights.
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>>2334191
Someone that comes here, asks for critique, manages to receive civilized critique and yet gets mad because they didn't hear what they wanted to hear, I would consider a useless poster searching for reassurance, not critiques.

I'm totally against sugarcoating, I'm just against counter-productive agression.

About your question, I fail to see the relevance to the subject. Anyway, it usually turns into an ego fight and I think it's better that you try to filter the anonymous critiques that seem more helpful for you.
>>
A lot of people arguing here about whether /ic/ being mean is a good thing or not.

I'm OK at drawing. A handful of times I've gotten super abrasive negative criticism, its really ruined my day. I don't have the best mental health, so maybe I'm just a bit sensitive. But honestly, i'm much better at drawing because of it.
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>>2334203
>I think it's better that you try to filter the anonymous critiques that seem more helpful for you.
Completely agree. The question was relevant in the context of the responses that I usually get.
>post your work or your words have no merrit
Do you agree with this? Even if the critique given is elaborate and well thought out (and sometimes even objectively right), and the person critiqued asks you to post your own just to see if you are "good enough" to give such critique?
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>>2330394
Because their work wasn't appreciated, so they put down others to make themselves feel better.
Or just bored people shitposting because SJWs wont' let anyone have fun in the Western world anymore.
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>>2334214
I think that's part of the anonimity, posting your work to evaluate the merit of your words breaks it in way and also sets a precedent to endless competitions.

We all want to be criticized by the best (or at least those we consider better than us), but it would become a mess if this becomes really a thing here (more than already is).

Also, I do believe that even someone not as good can come with some valid points that you never noticed before, since you're already too used with how your own art looks.
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>>2334224
So you can see where I'm coming from?

Even if I can not replicate the style or maybe not emulate the things I advice others to do, I can still understand the fundamentals and therefore give accroding pointers.

This "you need to prove your worth" thing needs to die out, not only because it's an endless piss fight, but because it leads nowhere. Either people will post their drawings and you'll have your remarks about them or they won't and you get overly defensive.
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>>2334203
again, there are faggots here that think their critique is the word of god.

I have seen people here give redlines when they have no clue what the fuck they are doing but think they need to critique fucking everything.

The best example is that firez study painting. Holy shit you faggots are fucking retarded if you think every critique is right.
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>>2334211
If you improved, it's more likely those critiques had some pretty useful remarks and that's a good critique.

If they were really just empty, mean posts, then they just worked as a motivational statement like "I need to get better since they said I suck", not as a guidance like, "ok, they said I should study this and that, now I know my weaknesses".
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>>2330394
OP, I was asking myself the same thing the other day. For some reason I kept wanting to go back here though. I think the majority of people here are pretty blunt and don't sugarcoat shit like DA and the art subreddits do. All I see on Reddit Gets Drawn is circlejerking of shit art. Here at least, 1 out of 10 people will legitimately call you out on your weakness.
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>>2334235
Sure, hopefully, this new trend gonna end and that's why we need to stop this endless cycle of battles in every single post.

There'll be always shitposting and useless fights, but my hope is that things will get a bit better in the future, I already received some good critiques here and that's why I still come back.
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>>2334130
Then you let loose and tear them a new one.
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>>2333190

/co/ main here.

Drawthreads on /co/ aren't for progression, they're for quick doodles and instant satisfaction. Unless you're really terrible, no one is going to say anything about your art.

/ic/ is called "Art/Critique" for a reason. If you can't handle getting your ass blasted if you draw poorly, then you're better off not being here. That being said, /ic/ is nowhere near as angry as it used to be.
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>>2330434
Irony is that when you call those people that use words of that nature then they get all whiny about it. So it's a double standard.
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>>2330394

This is a bit long, but part 1:

It's not so much that the board is mean per say, but rather the veteran posters here get frustrated. There will always be shitposters and trolls. They are in the minority here though. Some posters may resort to those kinds of tactics due to the ignorance of new posters and/or also as a pushback from the DeviantArt era of the internet.

/ic/ shares this same situation with a/. a/ feels that if they don't self-moderate then the board will fall into a state of disarray and the quality of the board will deteriorate. You will get endless threads asking for the same thing. Examples ranging from:
- What anime should I watch?
- What anime do you recommend that I watch next?
- Naruto is awesome! Who is your favorite character?
- Naruto and Sasuke are so strong who will win in a fight between them?
- i just saw Attack on Titan. let's hook up. a/s/l.
- Mymomsucks.Shewantsme2...
- youranimesucks.com hates hentai whatdo?

It's clear that these kinds of threads are frowned upon as they caused problems in the past. So they self-moderate to destroy threads like these to make it clear that they aren't tolerated there. Trolling the OPs enforces that idea even more (more evident in recommendation threads). It's also to dissuade newbs from posting as it is evident that they did not take the time to lurk before posting. Lurking is a surefire way of learning the culture and rules of the community. (Personally, I might lurk for months at a time before I post anything, let alone start a thread.) Some people don't do that and they get punished for it. Example, if you check some reddit subforums you will see multiple threads of the same thing, because they want to be 'nice.'
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>>2334785
(Cont.)

This lowers the quality of the community as it's littered newbs and the quality of the discussion drops. a/ talks about the newest shows and various older shows quite frequently. There are shows, genres, and characters that get their own threads. Why should you ask what to watch when you can lurk on the board and see which titles are being discussed? There's also an entire board dedicated to camwhoring and hooking up, go there instead. There's already one Naruto thread going, no need for 10 of them at once. Also, why aren't you typing in a somewhat decent manner? Probably because you are too young or too much of a newb to be posting here.

Now in /ic/ there's an actual sticky all the way on the top left that explains all of the links that you need to use to get better at creating art. The posters here got together and took the time to put that together for those who need help. The problem is that the posters who come here don't really think that they need help and don't bother to read it or to familiarize themselves with the board culture and just post. It's frustrating to many here, because it's telltale sign that the person didn't bother to read it or to lurk before posting. So let's say that the person did create the thread dedicated to their one pic asking for help and critiques. If you read those threads the first posts are pretty helpful. You will get the one obligatory 'It's shit,' but the thread will start going downhill once the OP fights back against the initial helpful posts.
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>>2334787
(Cont.)

/ic/ won't admit it, but this is a surefire way to trigger the posters on this sub-board. The reason for this is, because during the early to late 2000s Deviantart was the biggest art community on the internet. Lots of people could post art and comment on others art. Problems arose when people who were commenting with legit constructive critiques were getting attacked by not only the artist, but the fans of the artist, too. Soon after deviantart became a hugbox and echo chamber. Even a lot of popular artists weren't improving, more evident with self-proclaimed 'anime/manga artists.' This is because, most of the people posting there were young. They were children, teens, and very young adults. There was a huge lack immaturity there. It affected the quality of the community as well as the real lack of moderation to deal with that.

The admin response was to just make it an option to accept crits or not. Not wanting to accept crits means that you are not looking to really get better. You aren't serious about your art. This is one of the biggest reasons Deviantart fell out of favor with professionals. It's why ConceptArt and Behance came to be. Even for as hugboxy as Tumblr can get at times you will see all the notes BEFORE you can see all the comments. Also, commenting on Tumblr is a slight bit of a pain in the ass so many people just don't really do it unless they are really driven to do so.
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>>2334791
(Cont.)

Anons here don't want /ic/ to become that shithole that DeviantArt became (yet still suffers from the stigma of being associated with 4chan so they can't get to status of even Reddit, Conceptart.org and the ilk) so it seems that they have taken the completely opposite attitude: to be harsh as a way of being more 'real.' A place where your ass won't be kissed. By doing this you will either: Leave or try to get better. It also makes the praise that you do get that much better, because you will feel that you will have, truly, earned it rather than just expecting it.

/ic/ understands that asskissing doesn't help you get better. For example, if everyone got an A or 100 in your grammar class even though some people had incorrect answers and lackluster work what good does that do for you, as a person? If you are getting praised for wrong answers and shoddy work how will you improve as a person? Would you? If everyone doing worse than you and getting praised you will begin to falter in your own work, because it's discouraging.
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>>2334785
(cont.)

Unfortunately, this does attract some trolls and genuinely miserable people, because they think that just because other people are doing it that it's ok to do it too. They think that they are in the company of peers not realizing the psychology and history behind these tactics. This is also not to say that some people aren't just frustrated with their own lack of progress in their own art and careers and using this as a way of taking out that frustrations. This also isn't to say that the posters here all know what they are talking about either, but there are a lot of people here of all different skill levels. Attacking someone trying to help you, even if they are not completely right is surefire way to prove that you are still a entitled 'newb' that needs to learn to be humbled.

By being humbled and recognizing that your art isn't the greatest in the world is the true way of beginning your journey to becoming a better artist. /ic/ just wants to help.
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>>2334793
Fucking shitty comment, get the fuck out and go write a blog.

Hope it helped.
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>>2334795
Holy shit. ain't got time to read all that hommie. wrap it up.
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>>2334785
>>2334787
>>2334791
>>2334793
>>2334795
good shit, my man. sums up the board culture rather nicely. people will say that they won't read this, but they will, and have.
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>>2334795
Initially I was going to disregard all of that as a tl;dr, but that was actually an insightful read.
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>>2334804
Are you illiterate?
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>>2334817
Nope, but i can tell from the amount that you've written you're a retard. Brevity is the soul of wit my man.
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>>2334785
im one of those who understands and applies everything youve talked about. Its a nice read for the new people
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>>2334785
you should put a last little bit of effort and string your comments together and save them as an image for me.
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>>2334795
>By being humbled and recognizing that your art isn't the greatest in the world is the true way of beginning your journey to becoming a better artist. /ic/ just wants to help.

> /ic/ just wants to help.

Nice. Should become a meme. You could say some shit like: "blog?" or "OP is a faggot" and then say "I just want to help".

It's quite impressive how you romanticized all this crap and created the illusion that most critiques here are helpful and not just some retarded rants or jokes.
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>>2334829
>Brevity is the soul of wit my man.
No, you're just lazy.
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>>2334953
would you please stop samefagging. I can tell from the poster count. and if you can't explain something simply you either don't know what you're talking about, or a windbag. intelligent people know how to summarize and get to the point with a lot less. If you're writing that much, you are 9/10 a dullard and you don't even realize, which is usual for morons.
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>>2334976
Intelligent people also know how to not to make assumptions, because they look like asses. Just how you look like one to me and the other person(s) you have been arguing with.
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>>2334976

>you're dumb because I can't be assed to read a single paragraph

That's the stupidest fucking leap in logic I've seen in a long time.
>>
There is nothing here but hatred
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>>2334976
>would you please stop samefagging. I can tell from the poster count

That is the stupidest thing I have read on 4chan today. In this thread we got 186 post with 88 different IPs.
>>
>being this mad because someone called you a moron on the internet.

What a great start to 2016
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>>2334785
Aren't you a cutie.
>>
how about for the new year we just stop shitposting?
no being assholes just for the sake of it
no "no you!" arguments
if newfags dont know what they're doing just tell them to read the fuckin sticky and leave it at that; no more

all that time could be spent getting gud
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>>2335290
The problem is that some posters here are so terrible posters that even when they in their delusions mean well others still register their posts as shitposts. With anonymity it is impossible for us to filter out shitposting.
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>>2335296
well yeah but how about just not adding fuel to the fire?
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>Only constructive criticism will be accepted. Rude or offensive comments will result in a ban.

is this rule simply not enforced? I've seen plenty of 'critiques' that are rude and/or offensive and not helpful in the least

I dont think critique has to be sugarcoated if that's not your style but if it simply falls into the vein of "this is awful" without providing specifics or suggestions to help the artist, it's not allowed (or at least according to the rules)

it's a whole different story if the artist refuses listen to critique or if you're calling someone out on shitty comments and behavior (not their art)
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>>2335407
This rule can't be enforced, there's too much bait with drawings worse than what a 5-years-old child could do and there's too much art too shit to criticize.

How do you criticize something that has no positive points? How do you criticize something so flawed that it needs you to give a free class on how to draw instead of just a tip? The board is small, new people generally try to do the good old critique, only to be hit time and time again by baits and shit people who didn't even bother to read the sticky, after a couple of those you just turn the "i don't a give a fuck" buttom on.

If your art has nothing of value, nothing to be improve upon, you should be thankful for getting a "this is awful", at least now you can move on.
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>>2335452
in those cases where the art is so incredibly beginner, i'd just tell them "read the sticky" or "take a fundamentals class" or refer them to the beginner's thread + loomis

but yeah, i get what you're saying. it's a hassle to repeat the same thing over and over again

i think it's a bit sad it's gotten to the point where ppl can't help beginners who truly want to improve bc they're mixed in with "bait"
>>
Art is an individual's attempt which the critics here do not recognise as fitting to their standards. Standards which many great artist could be brought out to display the breaking these absurd ideas. Somehow these artists were successful having lived through the braying of the idiots determined in their defeat.

And their lives were probably as horrendous as their biographies make out.

People expect to be pleased by art but must take the artist on their own terms who worked through appalling circumstances and slender means to create.

It's a thankless and miserable situation that perhaps only the apotheosis resolves.
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>>2335730

and me? You hated it and hated it and hated it, so it dies in front of you for the umpteenth time
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>>2333250


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_nOemLnCpA
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>>2335735
>>2335735
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNvFPKujc5w
>>
the 7 deadliest sins on /ic/
1. Pride
2. Lust (A dysfunctional desire for perfection)
3. Sloth
4. Envy
5. Wrath

You tell me why this is such a shitty place.
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>>2335794
Thats only five sins, guy.
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cvome vback you forgot you meme
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>>2335748
the video got a bouguereau painting in it
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>>2330394
It's a 4chan thing, isn't it? (That sounds kinda cringe, sorry.)
Besides, it's a board much dedicated to criticism. Of course they are going to be mean about your own creations.
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>>2334795
Pretty good posts mane. I think it's also true that people here are even more defensive/sensitive about their own disciplines than on other boards. Too many people seeing their art as themselves, they can take it pretty personally if someone gives them a bad crit, or tells them their favourite artist is shit.
>>
>tfw when gay
>tfw when parent died when little
>tfw when manlet
>tfw animator
You'd think my skin would be thick like a brick, but I'm like anyone else. But, instead of reacting, I just say "OK" and try to rethink it and see if I can find educational value from their statement.
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>>2338491
why are you worried about being a manlet if your gay?
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>>2330530
>That's where the Dunning Kruger effect is at its strongest and all the elitism and false sense of superiority boils over all the time.
When I began getting good at animation, I used to get slightly upset when I turned on the TV and saw a TV commercial with a cartoon that was poorly done, and how I could've done better and how my cartoon wiener is so much bigger harder and shinier.
I never said anything, or ever criticized someone else's new animation, but I did mentally and kept it to myself.
>>
>>2338523
>why are you worried about being a manlet if your gay?
I'm not worried about it, just thought it'd be funny to call myself a manley.
I was picked on for being short in middle school, though.
But I had a big penis so I never really cared.
>>
>>2338523
could be a top. bit hard to be someone's daddy if they're a foot taller than you.
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>>2330475
Gettin real tired of this Loomis cult. There *are* other artists...
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>>2339074
No
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>>2339074
"Read Loomis" doesn't actually mean read _just Loomis. It means consult the resources in the sticky. Loomis happens to have pretty good books on construction, perspective, anatomy and illustration, so he's recommended here a lot. But the point is not to get a person to read Loomis specifically, it's to get them to wake the fuck up and start using the resources that this board has to offer, rather than ask for a cheap hack to draw anime\an owl\tumblr style\whatever. Seeing "Go read Loomis" as an indication of a "Loomis cult" is not really getting the point, in my opinion.
Everybody gets that Loomis isn't the only or the greatest artist in the world.
Telling somebody to "read Loomis" is a lazy answer to a lazy request from a lazy person who didn't care to read the rules\sticky before posting.
>>
>>2330530
So what you're saying is that intermediate artists are the most obnoxious, with beginners and experts being the most chill. That would explain why so many internet art circles are just circle jerking nonsense and generally hostile to people outside of their group and don't subscribe to the way they think.
>>
I have a big dilemma regarding arts, be it fine arts or music

Do people actually realize when their work is shit?

Maybe I'm completely blunt and honest to myself, but no one can say things about my work that will make me feel bad, because I've already recognized most mistakes I made. I don't think anyone can say harsher things about my work than myself

But then I see lots of people here who post their works with palettes all over the place, deformed faces, poor traces, unnecessary effects, shameless photobashing... can't they realize that something as simple as that hurts your work? Or is it that they've deluded themselves into thinking that it's not that bad? Maybe they think they can't do better? If so, why ask for a critique?

I don't know /ic/. Anyways I'm not harsh with people here because I don't know them so I don't know if they're in the middle of a process or stagnating for years. On the other hand in person I can't stop myself from being vocal about anything, because, as I say, most of the stuff you see is shit, and I can't believe people aren't aiming to do anything better than shit, or spectators are content watching, buying and expecting shit
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>>2330597
Some boards have tripfags who do the exact thing. No reason to say that non-tripfag would not do the same.
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>>2334139
Well, I have given few critiques here too but not even once I was fired back by some of your quotes. Which thread do you even hang out at?
>>
I come here BECAUSE you all are brutal. Tired of deviantart, tumblr people not being helpful. Sure, most assholes here aren't helpful but they at least do ground most people's egos/perception of their ability.
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>>2339074
It's a meme you dip
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>>2339156
>Do people actually realize when their work is shit?
I guess some do, some don't and some do but don't want to acknowledge their own shortcomings.

>I don't think anyone can say harsher things about my work than myself
I'd say that's a good thing, being your own biggest critic drives you to improve yourself and become better and better. On the other hand you shouldn't be too harsh, acknowledge the things you did good (or well?)
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>>2339156
My biggest problem with music is that my playing is shit but I dont know how to improve. I guess a bunch of artists such as myself stay in this mediocre bubble and we dont know how to get out of it, we just keep going.
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>>2341011
find a good teacher who finds your shortcomings and helps you overcome them
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>>2330434
that's actually kinda the reason why I act like a dick on this site. I'm not one of the dedicated shitposters you would recognize, but I'm especially harsh here simply because that's why I came to this site in the first place. This was the only website I knew of that didn't shower every autist's coldsteel the hedgehog with likes and compliments, and sometimes it even went so far as to provide useful critique. believe me when I tell you that if I saw your chickenscratch SU fanart in real life I would put on a fake smile and tell you to keep it up, but in an anonymous environment I would shit all over it. If you wan't people to act like they like your art, you can post it literally anywhere else.
>>
Only video game addicted digitalfags post like that. Any artist that is above average skill level will not feel that need to randomly shit on beginner artwork. That, or just plain old autism rage.
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>>2341038
>autism
>coward irl
>damage control
>>
How come every smartmouth has shit art? Where do they get their confidence from or is it something else? They know anatomy but either can't draw without reference or it's just plain naked bodies.
>>
>>2341038
same for me. I like honest, straight-forward crits, and I like being straight-forward with people and not worrying about whether it's 'nice' or padded enough to prevent a shitfest. I do my best to be as helpful as possible, but any other site, I'll spend 10 times as long working on a reply and end up feeling like my point didn't actually go through, and there's always the risk that someone is going to flip their shit and cause some kind of social-wankfest you have to wade through. Stresses me out, so I don't even try anymore.

I like the honesty. I just wish more anons would provide something more then 'X looks like shit'. That's not a crit you unhelpful fuck. A good crit offers some kind of suggestion or explains their perspective so the artist can better understand where they're fucking up and how to fix it. Most people can tell their shits fucked up, you're not helping.
>>
>>2341175
>A good crit offers some kind of suggestion or explains their perspective so the artist can better understand where they're fucking up and how to fix it.

LOOMIS
O
O
M
I
S
>>
>>2341127
I dunno maybe because anatomy directly relates to naked bodies?
>>
90% of this board are unemployed NEETs that didn't tell their parents that they were kicked from studies 2 years ago. All of those are on suicide watch and drawing jolly loomis is the only thing preventing them from suicide.

Other 10% are guys who are oblivious to anything, but came to kek at poor bastards.

It sounds funny, but really, it's just sad.
>>
>>2330394
Be less critical. Some of the people who call themselves "antisocial," tend to constantly criticize both themselves and those around them. They avoid social interaction because they are on the one hand afraid of being judged by others, and on the other hand (ironically) themselves extremely judgmental toward others. In order to become a more social person, it is important to accept that everybody, no matter how they may seem on the outside, has both positive and negative qualities.

how this makes you feel?
>>
>>2341175
>I like being straight-forward with people and not worrying about whether it's 'nice' or padded enough to prevent a shitfestc
Agreeing with you here.
There's a whole different world between 'that elbow looks like shit' and 'read loomis and kill yourself'.

I don't think anyone wants it to become a hugbox, honest and straight crit is why we're anonymous here, but it's gone too far into the realm of being a total asshole without including crit.
I've been spending less and less time here.
>>
>>2330394
not everyone on this board is mean , some just offer friendly constructive critism , although not very often.
>>
>>2341352
But that's boring, uncreative, dry. Probably stiff too.
>>
>>2341377
>how this makes you feel?
It's no secret that people are shit and that their bad qualities most often outway their good. So because of that, I don't want to be around others, and because of that, I don't want others to be around me.

Duh
>>
>>2341377
I was very antisocial in my early youth. I will support this person's post by saying he analyzed my immature self pretty spot on....
Not that it was my fault, because my father died from brain cancer when I was little, and as a result the trauma made me feel this way.
Talk therapy and medication (cannabis) fixed me up. I don't take the medicine anymore.
>>
>>2341408
My daily practice: drawing faces, bodies, and land scapes:
My career: animation.

I agree with you. People who think JUST being able to do life drawing are a boregasm. It's nothing social to see.
Sure, I can draw someone's face with a pencil and make it look photograph tier, but literally nobody gives a fuck. The universe is expanding, and we're all gonna die anyway.. That's why I animate funny cartoons.
So let's see some action, jack! Do something creative. If I see art, I better be doing at least one of the following:
>laughing
>crying
>scared
>sexuality excited
Or
>enlightened
>>
>>2341444
>nothing special
Phone autocorrected
>>
>>2341038
so you're saying you can't tell the hedgehog-drawing autistic 12 year olds that their art is bad without getting all anal and aggressive about it, sound to me like you just want to vent your insecurities on them. People tend to listen more to advice when they think you actually care about helping them and not trying to pick a keyboard fight.
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