/medieval/

If the glory of Roman lived on in its entirety, where would we be today by means of technology and society?

>>695188
Probably where we are now, but with shittier wagons unable to carry baggage over long distances

Also less developed cultural philosophy all around

>>695174
>Learn the truth about the Crusades
>the truth

Is this another red pill thing?

File: thomas_jefferson__s_qur__an_by_nayzak-d542aal.jpg (195KB, 1024x683px) Image search: [Google]

195KB, 1024x683px

>>695207
Not really "red pill" since virtually every historian agrees upon it, but the """Enlightenment""" did so much damage to our understanding of the past the common pleb doesn't know anything about it

>>695174
>Dark
>Ages

>>695257
like what?

>>695272
tl;dr saracens a shit and christians dindu nuffin wrong

>>695257
I'm just saying, EWTN? Might as well link the PBS Crusades documentary to balance things out. They're all shit anyway, books are where it's at. Asbridge for a Latin focus, Frankopan for the Orthodox, Cobb for the Muslim.

>>695272
The Crusades were a defensive operation carried out against Caliphs barring Christians from visiting Holy Places

Not some pseudo-intellectual BS like calling it a racial genocide or early attempt by European colonization

>>695287
Well yeah, but I thought the demonizing of the crusades was a very modern thing?

>>695295
If by "modern" you mean post 18th century on, then yeah

>>695301
I meant more in the past 60 years.
Explain?

>>695287
Denouncing the latter doesn't make the former true. The caliphs (which?) did not bar Christians from pilgrimage. There were continuous pilgrimages throughout the 11th century, and the First Crusade was one part rebel suppression and the other part armed pilgrimage off of which various lords piggybacked some Levantine conquests.

>>695281
Most EWTN programs are more intellectually stimulating than most books fyi

>>695310
You can't seriously mean to say a TV doc is better than the work of a historian of the crusades

>>695287
The Seljuks were caliphs?

File: rubruck[1].jpg (56KB, 727x302px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 727x302px

>>695174
Why don't William of Rubruck or Giovanni da Pian del Carpine have their own movie yet?

>>695329
Maybe they didn't have enough HBO sex to make it interesting for plebs

>>695287
they were just an other series of holy wars. muslims had jihads, christians had crusades, both sides usually see their own campaigns justified. religious wars are not new invention.

So I have been doing a little audio tour through history during my commutes listening to podcasts, audiobooks and lecture series. I am in the middle ages but the thing is most early books like to end with Charlemagne around 800 and then other books like to pick up with Crusades around 1000.
Any recs to listen to to cover the gaps?
Or just fill me in on what I'd miss in those 200ish years.

>>695287
>defensive operations

European countries weren't attacked

States & church encouraging zealots to go fight in foreign land...sounds an awful lot like Gulf Arabs sponsoring mujahideen fighters in Afghanistan, the Caucasus, the Balkans, etc...

>>695678
>European countries weren't attacked
But they were.
For hundreds of years.

>that new chart
Good. Not needlessly attacking the Renaissance like the other one that shitposter made.

I hate how glorified the Renaissance is and how horrible the sensationalized view of the Medieval period is, but I hate it even more when people simply invert the two.

>>695678
>European countries weren't attacked
Kill yourself my man.

>>695174

>let's talk about a thing
>out of millions of possibilities, chooses a massively inflammatory bait picture for the OP.

Does /his/ believe it was necessary for the (Western) Roman Empire to collapse in order for modern science and technology to advance how far it has now? Or would we actually be in space by now?

My understanding is that without any slave labour to support agriculture people had to get crafty with how to sow and harvest crops, hence things like the plow and horse collar being invented.
In the long term I think this allowed for the most efficient food production possible which obviously would have had a huge impact on society as a whole.

I'm sure there are other things I've overlooked, but in general I believe slave labour retards technological growth.

File: roman1.jpg (51KB, 455x640px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 455x640px

>>695956
The romans were technologically more advanced than the dark ages-you dont just build good roads and infrastructure and be dumb at other things

>>695965
muh plow

wew lads, gonna start buying armour

>>695678
The Crusading ideal, an alliance between secular princes mediated by religious leadership, was born during the Saracen raids in Europe during the VIIIth and IXth centuries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ostia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Garigliano

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tourtour

>>695956
>My understanding is that without any slave labour to support agriculture people
By late Roman empire we aren't talking about slave labour as much as proto-feudalism.

>>695878
>>695924
>muh arab conquest
There's no indication towards any kind of relation between between these two periods (which are in fact 200 years apart), the crusades were not an attempt at vengefully defending europe, they were an armed pilgrimage with the goal of conquering the Holy Land

File: Black science man.jpg (22KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 400x400px

>>695264

> He doesn't believe in the dark ages

>>695965
You can if your approach to good roads and infrastructure was more art than science.

>>695309
Regardless of if Caliphs did bar pilgrims there was a perception amongst many in Europe that they were.

>>697119
I don't think there's any such perception reflected in either Urban II's sermons or in First Crusade chronicles. The pilgrimage thing is an outdated explanation from a few decades ago.

By 2017, this board will have been completely ruined by generals, mark my words

>>697176
There is nothing left to ruin anyways.

>>697162
>the pilgrimage thing is an outdated explanation from a few decades ago
How so?

>>697176
It's a shit board where kids go to discuss wikipedia, post bait threads and pretend they are roman soldiers. It may be one of the youngest boards now, actual information wise its worse than /lit. Not even joking.

>>697355
Back before we had way more translations of Orthodox sources, historians were trying to figure out where all this talk of violence Urban II mentions being done to Christians in the east was coming from. Some speculated it was an exaggeration of the Fatimid Caliph Hakim going mad for a few years and destroying the Sepulchre, thus stopping pilgrimage. Others thought the Seljuk invasions stopped pilgrimage and that the stories took a few decades to telephone their way to France.

>>695673
Inheritance of Rome goes into post-Charlemagne, pre-Crusades Europe pretty well.

File: 1423611532710 (1).png (2MB, 1386x4653px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1386x4653px

memes

>>695965
"Dark Ages" were less advanced in city-building and urban support. Far more advanced in agriculture and vehicle/ship construction. Even the weapons and armor were more advanced.

File: G-Sylvester II.jpg (47KB, 491x609px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 491x609px

Post your popefu

Should we compile Goodreads shelves for recommended books?

>>695174

DEUS VULT
E
U
S

V
U
L
T

File: Jacopo_Vignali_-_Saint_Gregory_the_Great_-_Walters_372530.jpg (2MB, 1393x1800px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1393x1800px

>>698963
In the depths of the Dark Ages the Church shone the brightest. The only pope greater than Gregory is Peter himself.

>>698963
Pope Saint Pius X for elevating Gregorian chant and polyphony, and shitting on the use of drums and pianos in church.

File: 1446611828513.png (77KB, 1305x892px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 1305x892px

>>695174
dumping medieval stuff

File: 12079578_1060386330638856_154201173874669111_n.jpg (91KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 960x720px

>>699256

>>698978

File: Francisco Pradilla y Ortiz (1848-1921), Alfonso I de Aragón - 1879.jpg (187KB, 535x810px) Image search: [Google]

187KB, 535x810px

>>699259

File: 1447904531029.png (337KB, 500x534px) Image search: [Google]

337KB, 500x534px

>>699263

File: Sword of Frederick I the Warlike, Elector of Saxony and Margrave of Meissen; 1419-1425.jpg (37KB, 600x392px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 600x392px

>>699266

File: tumblr_mmqjw2dKTX1qfvprio1_1280.jpg (177KB, 900x599px) Image search: [Google]

177KB, 900x599px

>>699270

File: sancho VII.jpg (265KB, 803x1094px) Image search: [Google]

265KB, 803x1094px

>>699271

File: tumblr_nwk04j78aL1r2s3h9o1_1280.jpg (246KB, 1280x909px) Image search: [Google]

246KB, 1280x909px

>>699275

File: tumblr_o01b1rjuNE1r2s3h9o1_500.jpg (62KB, 467x700px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 467x700px

>>699280

File: tumblr_msf62w0Jsw1qdvi7fo1_400.jpg (23KB, 333x500px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 333x500px

>>699281
>tfw when no chivalrous waifu

File: 20150919_162713.jpg (4MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 5312x2988px

>>699285

File: 20150919_162717.jpg (3MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 5312x2988px

>>699296

File: 20150911_120548.jpg (4MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 5312x2988px

>>699298

File: 20150911_120514.jpg (4MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 5312x2988px

>>699301

File: 20150915_125826.jpg (3MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 5312x2988px

>>699305

File: 20150919_162331.jpg (4MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 5312x2988px

>>699313

File: 20150919_162345.jpg (3MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 5312x2988px

>>699316

File: 20150911_120306.jpg (4MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 5312x2988px

>>699325

File: 20150919_162254.jpg (4MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 5312x2988px

>>699331

File: 20150919_162629.jpg (4MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 5312x2988px

>>699336

>>697902
Thanks for the rec. Is it in audiobook form though for my commutes?