I'm a Christian now so I believe that my life has purpose, but when I was a militant atheist I thought life had no meaning or purpose. It blew my mind how people could attach importance to things if we were just the product of a clusterfuck of atoms. So I would take every opportunity I could to spout my half-baked ideas to every unwilling ear I could, which pretty much became my purpose in life.
Do you think this is why so many atheists are so vocal about their beliefs? Do their beliefs "fill" that same spiritual hole to give meaning and shape to their life? Do we as humans have an inherent need to do this?
Why can't atheists be allowed to be enthusiastic about a humanistic lifestyle? Just because they find happiness through non-religion, doesn't mean you one-up them if they congregate to discuss society, politics, philosophy, etc.?
Also genuinely disappointed if mental gymnastics caused your conversion, instead of a love of Jesus.
The emptiness you experienced without external guidance and validation wasn't totally unique to you, but it's hardly inevitable. Materialism or absurdism makes it fucking hard to suss out the kind of meaning you get from religion, and usually what you do get out of it says more about your predispositions than it does about the universe or about materialism/absurdism themselves.
I guess people can always have a deeper feeling of existence, and have deeply held beliefs. But I wouldn't call that spiritual, and it's a huge step saying that because an atheist holds unverified beliefs on some matters of existence, then that means God created all of us to have spiritual needs.
So, no. Not really.
You just assume every atheist is like this but in fact most atheist are exactly the type that doesn´t feel like this. Frankly im pretty tired that all christians here on /his/ assume all atheist are fedoras and project their own feelings regarding sense on atheists. There are many reasonable ways you can give your life meaning without religion. I fail too see whats so shocking when there is no creator, you are here make the best of it and enjoy your life. This doesn´t diminish the beauty or importance of human progress and the human achievements. Some atheists tend to be preachy when they are freshly "converted", because they aren´t fully sure about their new worldview. Most atheists are people who think for themselves and accept other peoples decisions without a problem.
If you're still calling yourself a label such as "christian" or "atheist" or "leftist" etc. You are severely spooked. There are only people. There's nothing preventing you from constantly changing your mind and evolving your viewpoint, as you learn more about the world (except spooks, of course).
>life has no meaning
>hurrrr durr I can't make one
Atheist here. No shit life has no intrinsic meaning. That's why YOU make one. Or are you that lazy? Look at this post. These letters, intrinsically, mean nothing. It's your mind that interprets these curved lines and places meaning ON it. Same with life.
> It blew my mind how people could attach importance to things if we were just the product of a clusterfuck of atoms.
How it is harder than attach meaning to your life in the world where God can rewrite entire world to state where you never existed in the first place? At least in clusterfuck of atoms scenario there is some impact of your life on the universe that can't be easily denied no matter how small it is.
God is a weird conceot to comprehend.
But once you realize that the force that creared you IS the truth, no matter what you try and say...it becomes clearer.
We are the product of something. That something decides our fate. Might as well put your trust in an all loving, everlasting God
Pascal's wager m8
The truth is that practically everything in the world is stacked against humans from their physiology to forces of nature. God that created all of it as it is should be apathetic to our needs at best and clearly malicious to us at worst. If God is really loving and care about us then he is just insane and I wouldn't trust him even if I can sympathize with such tragic divine figure.
>"I'm a Christian now so I believe that my life has purpose"
>Do you think this is why so many atheists are so vocal about their beliefs?
Humans have the ability to reason and hope for a future, that's why we are constantly evaluating our lives and looking inwardly, as well as comparing ourselves within a society.
Ironically it's that exact reason we invent religion, or any philosophy, and have any "higher" thoughts than just working like ants.
This so fucking much senpai. Where my NEETzche-bros at?
It's not that bad m8. Suck it up. I've had a pretty shitty life compared to a lot of people and even my life has been filled wifh a good amount of joy.
The experience is pretty mind-blowing also
I don't long for anything. Nonexistence would be fine with me. But it appears that's not the only option
>everyone is a slave getting tricked bt what they want to believe
>except me, I know the truth through this one book that feels good.
Are Christians really this oblivious? This is a shocking lack of self-awareness,or at the very least, a manner of persuasive speech, more of a personal mantra really.
>I know the truth through this book that feels good
"First, "feeling good" is for people who are under the impression they're lacking. And you want to talk about oblivious? Vain attempts to exalt yourselves through "self enlightenment" as if you'll possess a higher chair over anyone? For what purpose? You gonna' save the world? Or is it because YOU just wanna' "feel good"?
That's where Holy Scripture is in complete conflict with the world. My post got deleted but as I said prior...Holy Scripture Speaks plainly about the truth, about the world you live in and who your enemy is. Speaks like a man to you, not like a child who lives in a fantasy of being superman one day. Holds no bars in informing God's people that evil does exist, there will be men who delight in evil and that you will be hated and mocked for choosing righteousness over evil.
Now you can be self enlightened until your butt cheeks glow in the dark, won't take away from the fact that this world is ruled by mans heart and mans heart is vulnerable to the influences of evil.
Evil doesn't exist (you must first prove it does) and you're deluding yourself into thinking you're pursuing a higher cause, when in fact you're still being driven about in pursuit of your own gratification.
Sounds like a shit worldview. Man can't improve beyond increasing servility. Pride in your accomplishments and embracing your passions is to be spurned. One book has literally all the answers. You are begging to be told what to do and commanded.
>evil doesn't exist
That's like saying land is no different than water. Contrast creates distinction. But I mean this is so fundamental that the very fact I believe this has to be discussed and explained in some circles is nauseating. And the only thing I find personal gratification with, in relation to this topic, is truth. I've lived enough through mistakes and incomplete philosophies in my life to the point I can appreciate thorough truth.
>You are begging to be told what to do and commanded.
They even have a passage specifically rejecting the idea that you can personally interpret the bible. The faith really does seem engineered for people who resent their lot in life and want to be told what to do because they can't better themselves.
There is no good either, so there is nothing to contrast.
>But I mean this is so fundamental that the very fact I believe this has to be discussed and explained in some circles is nauseating.
Yes, you do seem like the sort who would find it personally bothersome that people disagree with you.
>And the only thing I find personal gratification with, in relation to this topic, is truth.
Regardless, you're being driven by the pursuit of gratification, you can delude yourself into thinking it's for this higher "truth." But that wont change the fact.
>I've lived enough through mistakes and incomplete philosophies in my life to the point I can appreciate thorough truth.
It's gonna suck when this little house of sticks you've built for yourself topples over.
So let me get this straight you are asking existentialists why they some other existentialists are vocal and annoy you?
Because it's only natural for humans to impose their influence and opinion on others. What are you looking for here?
I don't believe in god, don't give a shit about anything that has strong probability of not being true.
Try me faggot.
>Sounds like a shit worldview
Only if you have low self worth and need things to define your self worth. Also you're "serving" man as you typed that while living under various laws, some even unjust laws. Also you're implying it's all or nothing, which is your personal definition and in no way fact.
But yeah, refusing to look at the world for what it really is, doesn't make it go away. You could try to redefine it a hundred times over, but the contrasts will never change, no matter how many times you try to give those contrasts new definition and meaning.
How do I have low self-worth? The Christian view is that you're fallen and dirty. Don't accuse me of having self-esteem issues.
I'm not gonna dive into political philosophy right now because I'm fucking tired. Suffice it to say if I submitted to the judgement of lawmakers and thought of them as infinitely more wise than I am you'd have a point. But that's not the case.
>But yeah, refusing to look at the world for what it really is
>That "concious" of yours won't go away
I never denied empathy. You're looking for a different person.
And I'm aware of CS Lewis' bizarre idea that god is our conscious. Apparently he thinks we're incapable of realizing other people are thinking beings like ourselves and realizing the consequences of our actions with the detrimental effect that can have on others. Not without the help of a god.
Psychopaths literally have a defective brain that makes them incapable of empathizing with others and experiencing real emotions. Seems like god dealt them a raw hand. Or did they choose Satan before they were born or something?
Personal motivations. Biochemicals influence your reward systems as they form habits and traits that make up your personality. Because you think you will enjoy it. It's as deep or as shallow as you want to make it.
Your last question implies a logical paradox that exists in the theory of altruism, not even going to address it but i will point out you're being difficult. You're spewing out puzzle pieces bent, covered in shit, and incomplete and you're asking someone to put together the pieces. I don't live my life on anything i perceive as faith. Some people choose to make up the missing pieces some people choose just to not account for them.
"Holy scripture" is actually pretty vague. It was designed/maintained/developed in a way over many people over a long period of time to attach itself to concepts and ideas devoid of any immediately apparent truth and apply perceived truth. The intentions of this design were control and power. Although nothing is absolute the details on the origin of the bible are unable to be proven. It's influence is vast and the highest members in any religious (christian or otherwise) are very rich and powerful men, some of the most powerful men in the world.
I don't care if there is a god or not. I don't think there is, i can't prove it either way. I actually think the motivations of most religions are pretty obvious and actually served a very valuable purpose throughout history to ensure the human race survived and prospered. Sure some people obvious profited more than others but that's how the world works.
If we're just going to sit here and have a mexican stand off on faith vs no faith i'm going to go back to my hedonism and masturbation.
You said yourself you need things to take pride in to feel something. You told me this, I'm not accusing you of anything. Lol you're the one claiming I'm "begging" to be told what to do and commanded. Only thing I beg for is truth.
As for looking at the world for what it truly is, look in the Holy Scripture. The same games they played then are the same games they are playing now. It's all there to read and study. But you can't read it feeling offended that the Creator of all this, is potentially smarter than you lol. That's no reason to get down yourself, seriously.
>Only thing I beg for is truth.
Which apparently is a book of commands to live your life by.
Also, I'm gonna call it now. This is bait and we've all fallen for it. Bravo sir. I think you're a troll, rather than an idiot.
Pretty much this. You noticing a pattern here, OP?
Atheist - lose no opportunity to lecture people about your poorly-formed understanding about what that meant. Christian - lose no opportunity to lecture people about what you think that means, but with the added bonus of Moral Superiority And Warm Self-Regard.
What's the common factor here, can you tell?
>You said yourself you need things to take pride in to feel something
I said I think Christians demonize pride unfairly. But yes I do live in the world and feel the need to accomplish things that I ascribe importance to. I'm not sure how this is low self-worth. I think my achievements have real meaning and I think I can always improve myself.
>look in the Holy Scripture. The same games they played then are the same games they are playing now.
You're being hopelessly vague.
That a god would be smarter than me is a given. The Christian idea however goes further than that. The Greeks thought the gods were better than them and they still believed man was capable of glory. Christians specifically deny that. It seems you said it yourself when you talk disparagingly about 'self-enlightenment'. Although you might just need to specify what you mean by that in case I'm misrepresenting you.
Sadly the oldest and truest religion lies within the scripture here, but nobody has been able to read it for 28,000 years.
>>Implying I wasn't an atheist for most of my life
You sure don't sound like one. You sound more like a butthurt christfag who can't understand why the argument from muh feels doesn't work on people, so you've lowered yourself to emotional blackmail with the old 'when I was an atheist, everything was hopeless, but then good ol jaysus save me, and now my life is rainbows and chocolate fountains'.
I think you need to choose your words more carefully, because the fact you're saying you desire pride, is implying you're missing something that only pride can fulfill. Now if you can't find comfort without moments of exalting yourself, that implies a lack of self worth. So yes, from that perspective, it sounds like an issue of self worth. But you can improve yourself, no ones saying you can't. But you're implying pride is associated with improvement, as if it's a given, when that's not the case. So you're choice of words is saying this. Plus to be trapped in a form of bondage where you constantly need to be outdoing yourself to feel pride....that scenario alone in relation to what you consider a "shit world view" is what stood out.
Human behavior isn't complicated...and there's nothing vague about how Scripture points out human behavior, some people get off on choosing evil. Goes into detail how this works, to them stolen items are the best items. It's a complete reversal of what is good. This is the fundamental foundation man is faced with before he takes his first step out the door every morning. It's at the base of it all. But I'm glad you were there at the conception of the Holy Scripture....saved us a lot of confusion
Well you're wrong in this case
Believing you're not doesn't change that fact
What, do you want to see my diploma of atheism?
I used to not believe, just three years ago, now I do.
What's so hard to believe?
>Pretty sure I know my life better than you
And I know what it is like to be non-religious. You clearly have no clue. I mean really just look at the state of your post. You need to try much, much harder.
Except I'm not trolling
Why do you insist that I am?
I told me story as bluntly and to the point as possible...
What's the problem?
Why can't you comprehend that people talk about things that happened in their life sometimes?
Can you not wrap your mind around something happening that hasn't happened to you?
>What am I trying for?
>Why would I need to try?
You sould like you need to find a bit of purpose in your life. Lying on the Internet doesn't seem to be providing you much fulfillment.
Have you considered a hobby?
I don't want anything, fucking stop replying to me. If I have to taylor make my story for you to think I'm worthy then it's not worthy. Just fuck off
Why are you such an entitled cunt?
K bye now
The fuck is this thread? M80 If you were an athiest and then became religious, you're a dumbfuck.
People are welcome to their beliefs, but that's because they're poor and stupid. Trying to get philosophical with the poor and stupid is a fruitless task. Religion is the opium of the masses, that's kind of been the get go for most of civilization. But anon, rationalism has been a thing for a while now, the only excuse for being religious in this day and age is if you aren't able to get access to rational lines of thought, hence the poor and stupid link.
Also, unless you're a jew, what are you doing worshipping that shitty bronze-age meme shit. It isn't what your ancestors would have wanted. If you must, don't succumb to such a hairy brown middle-eastern way of thinking.
We've had some very nice conversations in the past, I'm actually one of the more reasonable posters.
But if you think I am going to seriously discuss a thread like this and not just call it out for what it clearly, clearly is then you are wrong.
It reads like a 12 year old in the Bible Belt just finished watching "God's Not Dead" and decided to make a thread role playing as a "former atheist".
Bah, I just hate people assuming so strongly. Given the other posts by the guy its obvious he's not as skilled in wit as you'd assume so there is room to think there is more to the guy than your assumption. Not to say you're right or wrong but I do not find it so clear cut so I have room to criticize you in that respect.
Either way it's not a big deal man, nor worth continuing tons of posts on on either of our parts.
Rubbish. That post could only have ever possibly been written by someone who had never been non-religious and quite possibly someone that has barely met any non-religious people. No one acts like that, it's just roleplaying as an excuse to chuck the usual slurs and nonsense misconceptions at the non-religious.
You're correct. I will leave it at that and stop bumping the thread.
>"Why are atheists so annoying!!?"
>thread fills up with Christians unabashedly proselytizing for their beliefs