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Why didn't they just walk around it?
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

Thread replies: 55
Thread images: 5
Why didn't they just walk around it?
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>>688154
I don't think they used testudo within charge to melee distance, anon.
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>>688154
Arrows you nigger.
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>implying you can catch up to the tortoise
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>>688169
the fuck is this shit?
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>>688184
Zeno's Paradox. Check it out. Pretty edgy stuff at the time.
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>>688154
The Testudo moved sideways as well.
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>>688184
How old are you?
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>>688184
>not knowing Zeno's Paradoxes
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>>688169
>According to Simplicius, Diogenes the Cynic said nothing upon hearing Zeno's arguments, but stood up and walked, in order to demonstrate the falsity of Zeno's conclusions.
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>>688551
Is that supposed to be impressive?
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>>688154

Why didn't they just use trip wire or run chains around them?

Why didn't they just stick poles with fire through the obvious gaps?
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>>688632
t. Plato
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>>688632

To edgy too cool for school 15 year olds, yes.

You are now aware that Diogenes never existed but is a pseudonym adopted by other philosophers to shitpost without it being ascribed to them.
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>>688670
they are still humans anon not robots, they can always just break formation and charge furthermore you would never find just one formation, if I believe correctly each legion consisted of 2000 troops and there were always multiple legions together so you have several thousand troops to deal with.
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>>688685
>a pseudonym met with Alexander the great

I bet you think that Shakepeare wasn't real either.
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>>688551
Is there a single philosopher that Diogenes "The Absolute Madman" of Synope hasn't managed to completely BTFO?
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>>688722

Is it possible he was real and also had a small writing team? Kind of like what goes on for sitcoms and shit?
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>>688551
So based
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>>688154
Because they would turn and face the enemy as they're still capable of oh I dunno turning? If the enemy broke into two groups and flanked both sides they'd break the phalanx into two groups and face them as two units or stand back to back and face them as one unit.

The phalanx wasn't the death machine a lot of history channel tier historians make it out to be and it really relies on having equal or more guys than the enemy. When they faced off against archers, calvary, or when they were outnumbered they got buttraped. However the Romans utilized much more additional support that made this less likely.
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>>689925
That's not a phalanx, bro.
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>>688154
Where the fuck are their spears? These idiots fought without spears? That's like going to war today with handguns...
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>>689930
The phalanx is a battle formation intended to be used in battle, they did plenty of maneuvering, they had to. It was much more fluid than what a lot of you are imagining.
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>>689931
They never did well against Calvary heavy armies unless they had Calvary to protect them
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>>689944
That's still not a phalanx bro.
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>>688551
>Zeno comes up with this crazy but logical idea
>it's a paradox because it doesn't make sense
>Diogenes complains that it doesn't make sense

Was he literally autistic?
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>>689944
Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

Besides the fact that you aren't specifying what type of phalanx you're talking about, have mistaken an anti missile formation for a complex shield wall formation, and misunderstand still that the phalanx is very rigid and cannot simply "turn".

Phalanx's had a wheel or sorts, but it would take far too long to wheel an oncoming flanking group, which is generally why they are known for their rigidity and failure once the Roman's began systematically crushing the successor states' massive phalanx based armies.
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>>689931
Anon I'm glad you've found the key flaw of the Roman military system that nobody has been able to spot

THE EMPIRE FELL BECAUSE THEY USED SWORDS INSTEAD OF SPEARS
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>>689976

This changes everything, dude. Quick, TELL GAIUS.
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>>689931
Dork, the Hastati or Principes, w.e type that is using that testudo used swords and throwing spears.
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>>689958
>paradox
>have to be nonsensical
Uh-huh
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>>689944
>phalanx
Testudo man..
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>>688687
>legions
>2000 troops

What? I was under the impression a legion ranged up 5000 in the Republican and early Imperial period and 1000 in the late empire.
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>>688169
I don't get it, does this paradox assume Achilles is slowing down in speed to match the pace of the turtle? If he's maintaining a pace of 100m per any unit of time compared to the tortoise moving at 1/10th that speed, it's obvious he'll over take the tortoise quickly.

The only way I can see this as an actual paradox is if both him and the tortoise are cutting the distance elapsed by equal amounts.
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>>690106
might be true, I was just basing it off memory of things I learned over a decade ago.
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>>688154
Because the testudo is a fucking formation used when approaching something fortified and pelting you with shit.

Its rarely used in field battles.
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>>689958
>you can't pass a finite distance because there's infinite parts of it
it was bull shit then and it's bull shit now
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>>690106
no it was 5000 then changed to 9000 but it's also important to remember legions also had auxiliaries and many other support units that we're not included in the legions ranks. the actual army was much larger then the single legion
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>>690367
/thread
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>>688551
Diogenes is so freaking epic xD
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>>689958

You're missing the point. Completely.

Xeno was trying to prove logic, as a system, was flawed. Dio simply pointed out the system wasn't flawed, but Xeno's attempt at approaching it (his premises were intentionally limited).

And he did it without saying shit.
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>>690450
But he didn't do so. He made no appeal to logic, but simply to sensation.
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>>688632
>>688685

It demonstrates that pure rationalism leads you to retarded conclusions.
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>>690773
Yes, sense-data often shows errors in applying our logic to reality that we overlook or cannot verbalize.
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>>689968
Have you ever seen a marching band?
Tight formation, still moves well.
Contemporary illustrations show the Greek phalanx accompanied by musicians playing. This kept the hoplites in step and co ordinated.

As for the Roman testudo, it is a defence against projectiles on the advance. When within striking range, the formation changed by simply returning the shield to the ready position.
Soldiers of the era would drill six hours a day. Every order that could be given was practiced in every possible combination.
As Pliny recorded "The drills where bloodless battles, battle was bloody drill."
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>>689987
A-are you Aulus?

>>688551
Absolutely fucking based
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>>689968
Playing devil's advocate, but wasn't the testudo an advanced shield wall formation, technically?
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>>690848
That's still not correcting logic. That's simply rejecting the idea the logic can make meaningful truth statements.
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>>689898
No. He had a protege in his later years who succeeded him as leaders of his theater company, but their writing styles are clearly distinguishable (as Shakespeare's is form basically all his contemporaries') and the cases of shared authorship are clear and limited.
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>>688687
Legions were literally never organized as 2,000 man units. Stop posting.
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>>690852
HAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH
I'M GOING TO USE BIG LETTERS, BECAUSE THE SHIT YOU'RE SPEWING MAKES ME THINK YOU';LL HAVE TROUBLE IF I DON'T
>Contemporary illustrations show the Greek phalanx accompanied by musicians playing.
THEY ALSO SHOW HOPLITES RIDING DOLPHINS
MEANWHILE, CONTEMPORARY WRITTEN SOURCES NOTE THE SPARTANS AS THE ONLY PEOPLE AROUND TO MARCH IN STEP, AND AS THE ONLY ONES TO DO SO TO MUSIC.

EVERYONE ELSE IS NOTED AS BREAKING INTO A SHAMBLING RUN BEFORE CONTACT.
EVERYONE.

>Have you ever seen a marching band?
>Tight formation, still moves well.
THEY'RE FUCKING DESIGNED TO ALLOW THE PEOPLE IN THEM ENOUGH SPACE TO MOVE, YOU FUCKING RETARDS, AND THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY WILL HAVE TO DO WELL IN ADVANCE.

A PHALANX DOES NOT, AND THEIR TRAINING LITERALLY CONSISTED OF WEEKS OF FUCKING FOLLOW THE LEADER, WITH NO MENTION OF PRACTICING WHEELING MOVEMENTS.

THE FORMATIONS PLACE FILE LEADERS AND CLOSER, BUT NO LEADERS ON THE SIDE, AT FUCKING ALL. CONTEMPORARY CAVALRY FORMATIONS, WHICH DID EXPECT TO ENGAGE IN RAPID LATERAL MOVEMENT, HAD LEADERS ON ALL SIDES FOR THIS REASON.

ADDITIONALLY, WE HAVE NO-I REPEAT, NO-EXAMPLES OF A PHALANX ADEPT MANEUVERING TO DEAL WITH A FLANKING FOE.

THERE ARE TWO EXAMPLES, IN SEVERAL CENTURIES OF WAR, OF PHALANGITES FORMING SQUARE AND TRYING TO GET OFF THE FIELD, BUT THEY ARE STILL NOT ABLE TO MANEUVER ON AND DESTROY A FLANKING FOE.

WE ALSO HAVE ONE EXAMPLE OF A PHALANX BEING ABLE TO RAISE PIKES, REVERSE FACING, AND RESUME MARCH N THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION-BECAUSE THE FILE CLOSER IS ALSO A LEADER. AGAIN, NO SUCH MEN ON THE FLANKS.

CONTEMPORARY SOURCES MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THE PHALANX IS AN ANVIL AND STEAMROLLER, AND LITTLE ELSE.

>Soldiers of the era would drill six hours a day.
OH REALLY, FAGGOT? CARE TO POST A FUCKING SOURCE FOR THAT HILARIOUS BULLSHIT?

BECAUSE REPUBLICAN ROMAN FORCES SURE AS FUCK WEREN'T DOING THAT, BEING FUCKING CITIZEN MILITIA WHO HAD FARMS TO TEND TO.
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>>692403
HOPLITES DIDN'T TRAIN 6 HOURS A DAY, BECAUSE ARISTOCRATS HAD POLITICS AND WEALTH TO MANAGE, AND THE MIDDLE CLASS TRADESMEN-FUCKING GET THIS-HAD JOBS TO DO.

ALEXANDERS PHALAGNITES WERE SEMI-PROFESSIONAL SOLDERS, AND WERE NOT TRAINING EVERY DAY, GIVEN THAT THEY, LIKE ROMANS, HAD LAND TO TEND TO.


LATER HELLENIC ARMIES HAD PROFESSIONALS, BUT TRAINING-=AND EVEN ACTUAL PROFESSIONAL STATUS-VARIED FUCKING WILDLY.

THE PHALANX GOES FORWARD, STOPS, OR GOES BACK. THAT'S ALL IT DOES.
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>>692403
>>692418
Alright Gaius calm down
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>>692403

Oh the humanity of the short history of this board
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>>691122
That's simply rejecting the idea the logic can ALWAYS make meaningful truth statements.
Thread replies: 55
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