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Thomas challenge
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The gospel of Thomas is a Gnostic text not included in the new testament. It is essentially just 114 jesus quotes one after another. Many of the quotes can be found in the books of the new testament. There are some that are found only in Thomas, and they are odd, and most likely require cultural context lost to historians.

I propose a challenge to the historians, philosophers, shitposters, and theologians of /his/: I will post weird Jesus quotes from Thomas and you will tell me their true meaning. As Jesus is quoted at the beginning of Thomas "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

Your first quote is Thomas 7
"Lucky is the lion that the human eats, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human the lion will eat, and the lion will still become human."

Ill post another after a while.
>>
Very interesting indeed.
The lion and the Man (probably) sheer representations of our self. The lion represents our animalistic urges while the Man represents rationality. The rest can pieced together by a 12yr old.
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>>677518
But why would the lion (urges) still become human (logic)?
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>>677531
Maybe humanity is part logic and part savage vice?
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>>677531
They don't become. They replace.
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>>677544
So which ever eats the other will define humanity?
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What can a lion accomplish but eating that which is above it? Honouring God by getting rid of the very being cast down from eternity. To do so is to earn the right to be a man.

Meanwhile, man is to be tending lions, not hunting them and eating them, as necessary as we find it. In its death it finds its life as sacrifice and earns the right to become a man.

But of course, REINCARNATION AND WESTERN RELIGION ARE BANNED
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Joke's on you, I just got back from Ash Wednesday Mass, I'm not going to fall for your tricks
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>>677459
Do these Gnostic heretical nonsense even have meaning?
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>>677551
Not humanity as an entire obviously.
This was just an allegory of our own constant battle to remain civil in an animal's world. He who chooses violence let's go of his humanity and becomes one with beasts.Devoid of consciousness and devoid of true happiness-according to Christian moralities of course.
To be honest,this isn't a challenge at all.
>>677564
Gnostic or not,it doesn't make it less interesting or meaningful. Don't dismiss it without 2nd thoughts.
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>>677564
Thats what I'm asking you, chief! The next quotation will be posted at 1pm.

If anyone feels like they understand this saying, post THANK YOU JESUS and you will never taste death.
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>>677564
>I'm too dumb to get it so it's nonsense

Fuck off
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>>677459
It's not really Gnostic... It's more of a collection of logios, which probably are authentic, with thoughts of author either christian and gnostic or not

It predates era of Gnostic gospels which were pseudoepigrapha

>>677564
Gnosticism is mindfucking, but Thomas was called 5th gospel for a reason
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>Be little Jesus
>The other kids in town don't want to play with you
>You get bored
>You turn all the kids in town to dust
>Tfw it's in the Gospel of Thomas

Is that suppose to be allegorical or something?
>>677595
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>>677459
OP here with your next quote. Good job on the lion one, you all really broke the back of that quote.

Thomas 55
"Whoever does not hate father and mother cannot be my disciple, and whoever does not hate brothers and sisters, and carry the cross as I do, will not be worthy of me."

Good luck!
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>>677784
Jesus's message went against the religious sensibilities of people in 1st century Judea?
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>>677784
All bonds, even familial, must eventually be severed on the Path
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>>677784

Sever all ties in order to be closer to the Lord
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>>677784
Same guy who posted first on the last verse. I've been lurking but the quotes become less appealing.
This one is about what you HAVE TO DO to become a disciple. You would have to let go of your wife/family/sister/mother and earthly belongings and follow the path that Jesus himself walked through.
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>>663380

Rebirth isn't just a reincarnation concept, but happens in this life when something begins while another time ends.
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>>677784
It means you should prioritize your ties with god, over your ties with your family. "carry the cross as I do" means to live like christ, this is why he calls himself "the way", because to live like christ is to walk the way to god.
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OP here, Im trying to portray a few different concepts in Thomas through the quotes I select. A new quote will be posted each hour.

Thomas 23
Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one from a thousand and two from ten thousand, and they will stand as a single one."
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>>677928
>Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one from a thousand and two from ten thousand, and they will stand as a single one."

God's chosen are few, but they're all alike. There is no duality within them them and there's no duality among them.
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>>677928
The resurrected Jesus will be two people.
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>>677928
the spiritually conscious are in the extreme minority, but all go in the same direction, and are of the same awakened being.

to be chosen is to be inspired and roused to wakefulness by the divinity of spirit.
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>>678106
Zombie Jesus and ghost Jesus.
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>>678084
>God's chosen are few, but they're all alike.
This. I think it's a correct interpretation.
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>>677459
You have to interpret it in light of gnosticism, not Christianity. The so-called Gospel of Thomas was not written by Thomas, the disciple, and was likely written @ 250 AD.

It contains such absurdities as you pointed out; Eat Lion, Be Lion, and the even more absurd Eat Human, Become Human. Hence it supports Eat God, Be God, aka the Eucharist of pagan Rome.
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Hey, this is offtopic but I don't feel like starting an entire thread for it.

I want to read the New Testament. Thing is, I don't fully understand it. I mean, is it a collection of books? A collection of accounts portraying the same events? Are there many gospels? Different authors? Why isn't Thomas considered "canon", is it because it's "Gnostic"?
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>>677459
Gospel of Thomas saying 114, “Simon Peter said to them, ‘Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life.’ Jesus said, ‘I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven.’”

Is this not clearly nonsense? And even if you can countenance it, is it not clearly in opposition to the known gospels of Jesus Christ?
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>>677459
Next quote, belated
Thomas 84.
Jesus said "when you see your likeness, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before you and neither die nor become visible, how much you will have to bear!"
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>>678156
So Christianity supports trannies?
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Yale Lecture on the gospel of Thomas for those interested
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxi5-6LdSpE
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>>678160
this seems more like a generic quote about life, something you'd expect from a Greek philosopher.

I'm reading it like you are happy when you see the good in you, but when you remember how cringy you were when you were younger you can't let it go.
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>>678154
Matthew: Written by Matthew the Levite, a tax collector (and therefore enemy of Israel), disciple to Jesus, wrote Matthew in Hebrew (bad Hebrew) to the Hebrews to show Jesus as the Lion, and the King of the Jews.

Mark. Written by John Mark, this is Peter's gospel, written to the Romans showing that Jesus is the Ox, the Suffering Servant.

Luke. Written by Luke, Paul's doctor, this is a compilation of all of the writings of the day concerning Jesus, put in good order. Luke wrote to the Greeks to show Jesus as the Son of Man, one of us.

John, written by John the beloved disciple, shows Jesus as the Eagle, as the Son of God.

Those are the four gospels, and contain the most about the life of Jesus. They were all written during the lifetime of eyewitnesses to the events. They were all completed prior to 70 AD, the destruction of the Temple, as they do not even mention that catastrophe. Mark is considered the earliest of the four, and can be dated to 45 AD.

The gnostics were people who denied Jesus is God, because matter is evil, and only spirit is pure. Jesus, being a man, could not be God in their view, so they started their own thing, claiming that only by finding hidden knowledge can a man be saved.

All of the gnostic gospels and infancy gospels are considered heresy, and not part of the bible at all.

As for the rest of the New Testament, Acts shows the birth pangs of the new church, and most of the rest is Paul writing letters to various groups, explaining the New Covenant in amazing precision and detail.

I would not recommend anyone read Revelation without a firm grounding in Daniel in the Old Testament, and a fairly good understanding of the first 65 books.
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>>678162
In Christ, there is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, rich or poor, freeman or bondservant.
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>>678154
The different gospels tell the same story of jesus but in different ways with different emphasises. Why thomas is not canon has to do with its Gnostic tone that makes jesus seem too otherworldly and if you look at Thomas in it's entirety it has no flow, its litterly a list of quotes, not a story.
>>678156
The book I am using says that 114 was added at a later date than the other quotes. Im not sure what that says about validity but I feel like if you said what Peter said to Jesus there he would flip your tables.
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>>678174
>Written by John Mark, this is Peter's gospel
please explain

>infancy gospels
I have never heard of those, what makes them different? I'm assuming that by infancy that means they were earlier, no?
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>>678180
Mark was not an eyewitness to the events of Jesus' life. He was a disciple of Peter, and undoubtedly it was Peter who informed Mark of the life of Christ and guided him in writing the Gospel known by his name.

"Papias claimed that Mark, the Evangelist, who had never heard Christ, was the interpreter of Peter, and that he carefully gave an account of everything he remembered from the preaching of Peter."

However, there is a strong suggestion that the young lad wearing only a linen, who rushed out to the Garden of Gethsemene during the arrest of Jesus, and escaped naked, was John Mark.
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>>678180
No, they purport to "fill in the gaps" of Jesus' life by fabricating tales about Jesus. Tales like Jesus spoke from the manger to the three wise men (the wise men came years later), that Jesus made a clay pigeon and brought it to life, and that one of His friends was accidentally killed, and then brought to life.

It was actually the gnostic gospels and the infancy gospels that Mohammad used in the koran to speak of the life of Christ.
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>>678187
>>678195
>>678174
>>678178

Thanks all. One last question, which version of the bible should I read? Do they emphasize different things? Do the translations influence the text? pic related

I only know that Orthodox rite also takes the books of the Macabees or something around that time as canon.
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>>678160
What could "images that come Into being before you and neither die nor become visible" mean?
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>>678204

I grew up with the KJV and love its prose. I usually refer to the New KJV here, as it is not written in archaic English. The 66 books contained in them are what is generally considered as holy writ; that is to say, inspired by the Holy Spirit of God.

I would avoid the NIV, the New International Version, because it has some serious faults in it, not the least of which is equating Jesus with the devil.

The English Standard is a very good translation, and if you want the best word-for-word translation, Young's Literal is very good.

If you just want to read the bible as a story, in chronological order, there is a book called The Story that is excellent. It's not the bible, but it has the bible in it.

The other books you allude to, the apocrypha, Maccabbees, Jubilees, etc., are interesting historical reads, but should generally not be considered scripture.

The books that came out after the bible, the gnostic and infancy gospels, I would shun. They might be an interesting glimpse into the movement of people who reject the bible, but that's about it. They're known forgeries and frauds, for the most part, and written centuries later. I would give them the same weight I would give Anton LeVey's bible, or Thomas Jefferson's bible.
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>>678222
Jesus did not say it, because Jesus is not the author of confusion. It is misattributed to Jesus.

The gnostics were (and are) in a constant search for hidden knowledge, secrets, mysteries, and occult information. This sentence would appeal to their curiosity, as it appeals to yours.
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religiousfags please leave
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>>678249
Be careful what you wish for.
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OP here

>>678245
Yes we know about the Gnostics. They had intended means for everything they wrote.

>>678160
Feel free to comment on the last quote, since only few did.

The next quote is Thomas 98.

"The father's kingdom is like a person who wanted to kill someone powerful. While still at home he drew his sword and thrust it into the wall to find out whether his hand would go in. Then he killed the powerful one".

Remember this thread is about interpreting Thomas, not arguing its validity.
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>>678303
>X is powerful
>the father's kingdom = person who wants to kill X
>the person kills X, but before that, he attacks the wall, to see whether is his hand would go in

So the father's kingdom is doing what he wants (killing X), but first does some kind of ritual. Tests his own strength maybe?
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>>63708237
That's the infancy gospel of Thomas. This is the sayings gospel of Thomas.
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>>678328
Seems to imply practising the killing, but does "father's kingdom" have to practice?
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>>678345
Maybe it could be related to the end battle in revelations?
>someone powerful = satan
>"While still at home he drew his sword and thrust it into the wall to find out whether his hand would go in" = God is waiting for a while, before he decides to kill Satan

It could be a sort of explanation as to why God hasn't destroyed satan yet, despite being capable of doing it (omnipotence and all).
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>>678174
I thought Mark was the Lion, Luke was the Ox and Matthew was the Man?
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OP here, it may be helpful to go read all of Thomas yourself because the quotes interrelate and make each other clearer.

>>678353
Thomas doesn't mention satan elsewhere so im not so certain that is the meaning, otherwise that is convincing.

Maybe its about testing the people before spreading the word?
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>>678303
I think it means training (as is praying in your closed room) is key.
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>>678174
>They were all completed prior to 70 AD, the destruction of the Temple, as they do not even mention that catastrophe. Mark is considered the earliest of the four, and can be dated to 45 AD.


This is an interesting point I never considered, it lends credence to the early dating of the gospels. I'd guess this means all the NT had to have been written before 70 AD, otherwise the Temple's destruction would have been mentioned since it's such a huge deal.
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>>678401
I would mention that Thomas is also based on Mark and some experts believe it to be earlier than other portions of the NT.
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>>678174

What whacky source are you getting this from?

http://www.bc.edu/schools/stm/crossroads/resources/birthofjesus/intro/the_dating_of_thegospels.html
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>>677928

Really shows how fucked modern christians are. They have to lie to themselves and others because their benevolent god is a picky bastard.
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>>678435
>http://www.bc.edu/schools/stm/crossroads/resources/birthofjesus/intro/the_dating_of_thegospels.html
>Q hypothesis

There's no real evidence for the Q hypothesis and the "academic consensus" doesn't actually agree on anything other than that it MIGHT exist. Source criticism is garbage.
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>>678458
You're trying to use a quote from gnostic text that is denied by all Christians to demonstrate how fucked up Christians are.
It's obvious that you haven't even read the thread, you popped in here as soon as you saw Christians mentioned to try to score some nonexistent karma points.
You are the definition of an ignorant fedora, go back to R3ddit.
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>>678303
You say this, and yet this thread is replete with responses attempting to crowbar this gnostic heresy into the bible.

>>678328
This has nothing to do with the Kingdom of God.

>>678345
See above.

>>678353
The gnostic gospels have nothing to do with God, the bible, or the Revelation.

>>678379
Matthew: Lion, Tribe of Judah, rulers, King.
Mark: Ox. Suffering Servant. No beginning, no end. Nobody cares about servants' heritages.
Luke: Son of Man. Man.
John: Son of God. Eagle.

These four faces also correspond to the four creatures housing the four horsemen of the apocalypse in heaven.
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>>678382
So again, you are attempting to conjoin the gnostic heresies with the bible.

That's like putting the Book of Mormon into the Koran.
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>>678417
Rubbish. The gnostic heresy of Thomas has cites to the Revelation, written in 95 AD.
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>>678401
The Jewish wars were heating up in the 60s, and the writing on the wall was becoming more and more clear.

Rome was coming, and they were coming hard.

Also, the authors at this time would have been in their 60s, and even though they believed John would live forever, none of them did.
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>>678490
Thanks for the explanation of the identifications of the Gospel writers, I knew about the associations but I never understood why that was the case.
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>>678435
From people who love the bible, and understand it.
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>>678435
You want to talk whacky? The "Q" source has been debunked for ages.
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>>678458

"To all who ask, I shall give freely."

>picky
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>>678479

You're kind of missing the point though. The dating isn't based on the existence of the Q hypothesis.

>>678511

I'll go with the scholars rather than people that 'love the bible'.
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~"you are what you eat"
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>>678490
OP here,
"This has nothing to do with the Kingdom of God"

The quote he was talking about specificly mentions "father's kingdom" so yes it does.

Im just so sorry that Gnostics existed but please be butthurt elsewheres.

The next quote is Thomas 10.
"I have cast fire upon this world, and look, I am gaurding it until it blazes."

Remember folks, a better life and never dying is on the line!
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>>678513

Apart from your post not even being true it is something of a composition / dvision fallacy.
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>>678516
Then go with the scholars who love the bible.

They're not at your cite.
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>>678520
No, it does not. The father of the gnostics is satan, not God.

As I have said until even I am bored with it, the gnostic gospels have nothing to do with the bible.
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>>678533
Thomas is the best gospel, nerd.
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>>678526
The cite gives the Q source as the reason for late dating Matthew and Luke.

The Q source has been debunked for decades as a hypothetical construct to deny the divinity of Jesus Christ.

It doesn't exist.

It's like the Oort Cloud.
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>>678515

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
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>>678533
Fellow Christian here. It's fine to have a conversation on the Gnostic texts, as long as people understand that no Christians accept it and that the sources are very dubious.
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>>678520
I take a Prometheus inspiration from this.
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>>677561
Same desu
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>>678576
That's not picky.

Anyone who finds the narrow gate, which is Jesus, gets into heaven. Anybody. Jesus is no respecter of persons. He doesn't care if you're a king or an untouchable. All who believe are saved.

Anyone on the broad road can find the narrow path; in fact, everyone on the narrow path started out on the broad road.

He's not picky.

We're a broken and depraved race.
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>>678593

Show me in the bible where Jesus encourages people to delve into the satanic things of the world.
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>>678544

>The cite gives the Q source as the reason for late dating Matthew and Luke.

Nope. The Q source is in itself a hypothesis that this material had a better earlier source that we don't have. It is not the reason for the later dating.
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>>677650
That's the *INFANCY* Gospel of Thomas. Not the same thing as the Gospel of Thomas. (And there are differences between the Coptic version and the earlier Greek version; the earlier version has less overt Gnostic elements.)
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>>678672

Of course it is. The only people who use Q are pushing the later dates.

And Q is a lie. It doesn't exist.
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Most of the parables Torah and New Tesament have no meaning. They're riddles with open interpretion, you're supposed to find your own meaning.

But, knowing it's meaningless might drive people away from it, and their own revelations. Maybe it's better to have a half-truth than none at all.
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>>678763
The best lies are half-truths, and the parables are as they are in order that the children of satan cannot understand them.
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OP here

The next quote is Thomas 102.
"Damn the Pharisees! They are like a dog sleeping in the cattle manger: the dog neither eats nor lets the cattle eat."
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>>678752
>Of course it is. The only people who use Q are pushing the later dates.

Not true at all. There are scholars that merely assert Markian supremacy who reject the idea of a 'Q source'. The whole idea of a 'Q source was to try and provide more legitimacy to the Gospels. It is not the basis of the later dating.
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>>677784
He's basically saying that perfect people cannot follow Christ. Compared with other verses of the Bible, Jesus basically said that perfection is a flawed concept and shouldn't be expected.

"carry the cross" is simply working to become like Jesus in the spirit.
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>>678490
>Matthew: Lion, Tribe of Judah, rulers, King.
>Mark: Ox. Suffering Servant. No beginning, no end. Nobody cares about servants' heritages.
>Luke: Son of Man. Man.
>John: Son of God. Eagle.
I get that, it's just that for the Synoptics, the iconography you give is contrary to most. John is pretty much always the eagle.
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>>677459
Not OP, but this verse from the Gospel of Thomas always messes with my head.

>Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, that is a marvel, but if spirit came into being because of the body, that is a marvel of marvels. Yet I marvel at how this great wealth has come to dwell in this poverty."
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>>678238
>equating Jesus with the devil
Sauce?
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>>678156
this refers to the Bridal Chamber ceremony, a gnostic sexual sacrament
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>>678938
Grade A heresy.

Fellate a gun.
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>>678938
OP here, lets go ahead and use this one.
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>>678938
It depends on the interpretation of that last bit. It's either really inspirational or he is he ia being a sardonic asshole.
>God creating mankind is amazing. That man and woman can create new life is doubly amazing. But what really amazes me is how something so great could end up so terrible.
That's the insulting interpretation, where he's saying that what was once a treasure (probably the soul) has come to be so worthless (tied down in sin/the material world.) A more charitable interpretation would be that he's saying that he has found one diamond surrounded by a sea of rough, and it amazes him how that situation came to be and how the diamond wasn't tainted.
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>>678938
do gnostics disregard the OT, cause in the OT God breathes the spirit into man's nose
>>
Does anyone have any perspectives/opinions on the canonicity of this Gospel? Did the Orthodox/Catholic disregard it immediately or did they have to discuss and consider the matter first before they reached their conclusion?
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>>679231
Most appearances of the OT God are actually of a completely different lowercase-g god named YHWH who posed as the actual God for most of human history.
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>>679261
oh right gnostics believe in the demiurge and all that, don't know why that slipped my mind
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The challenge will resume, whoever discovers the secrets will never taste death.
>>
Before the Gospels were written by Luke and the Apostles, they were mostly oral. The revelation that Christ is God (only explicit in John's Gospel) was reserved for initiated Christians; the unitiated had to leave the service before that part ("Catechumens depart!" is still a part of the Liturgy in some Churches). Some people sat in for services and heard Christ's teachings, which were written down before the Gospels themselves were. They heard these teachings and plaguarized them to start their own thing, without ever being initiated Christians (similarly, there were people who wrote down from memory what they heard in Shakspeare's plays so they could stage them, such folios still exist and naturally diverge somewhat from the authorized folios). This is the source of the Gospel of Thomas

t. Constantine
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>>679247
It was never ever regarded as canon as anyone. The canon was established long before Thomas was published.

Gnosticism was a neo-platonic reaction to Chrstianity. All of the Gnostic texts were written hundreds of years after the NT. I don't think we have evidence of a single Gnostic text existing before 200 AD.
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>>679231
>>679261
This is what I'm talking about when I say it's a reaction to Christianity. These ideas are inherently hostile to Jewish beliefs.

>oh yeah that OT god you Jews worshipped?
>yeah he was actually Satan!
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>>678807
Jesus' contempt for the Pharisees is found all over the Canonical Gospels, the eating metaphor refers to the Pharisees not ony not being saved, but also being in the way of salvation of others.

Jesus as we know from the 4 Gospels is no stranger to connecting eating with salvation, see the whole chapter John 6, in which he miraculously feeds the 5000, references the OT manna, and declares he is the bread of life.

>Captcha: Select all images with bread.
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>>680139
>The challenge will resume, whoever discovers the secrets will never taste death.

I'd like to point out that other translation say:
>Whoever penetrates the mea]ning of these words will not taste [death!]
>Whoever finds the meaning of these words will not taste death
There is a parallel in the deuterocanonical Sirach 39:1-3:

But one who devotes one's soul and studies the law of the Most High will seek out the wisdom of all the ancients and will be concerned with prophecies. That person will keep in mind the discourse of reputable men and will go into the subtleties of parables. That person will seek out the hidden things of proverbs and will be occupied with the enigmas of parables.

And Isaiah 64:4

For from days of old they have not heard or perceived by ear,
Nor has the eye seen a God besides You,
Who acts in behalf of the one who waits for Him.

I like Peter in 1 Corinthians 2:10-16 here:

10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.
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In the end you will see that except for a few bizarre sayings like making Mary the Magdalene a man, much of this non-canonical Gospel is not really that unique.
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>>677784
Is this a variation of "kill the Buddha"?
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>>677784
Matthew 10:16-24, 34-39

16 “See, I am sending you out like sheep into the midst of wolves; so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. 17 Beware of them, for they will hand you over to councils and flog you in their synagogues; 18 and you will be dragged before governors and kings because of me, as a testimony to them and the Gentiles. 19 When they hand you over, do not worry about how you are to speak or what you are to say; for what you are to say will be given to you at that time; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21 Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death; 22 and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

24 “A disciple is not above the teacher, nor a slave above the master; 25 it is enough for the disciple to be like the teacher, and the slave like the master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household!

34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

35 For I have come to set a man against his father,
and a daughter against her mother,
and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household.

37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it.

See also Luke 12:52-53
>>
>>680594
Matthew 12:46-50

46 While he was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and his brothers were standing outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Look, your mother and your brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48 But to the one who had told him this, Jesus replied, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 And pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
>>
>>677928
Matthew 7:13-14

13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

>>678944
Many modern translations translate הילל in Isaiah 14:12 as morning star. The Greek OT translates it as ἑωσφόρος.

In Revelation 22:16, Jesus introduces himself as the bright morning star, in the Greek it's ὁ ἀστὴρ ὁ λαμπρός, ὁ πρωϊνός.

I don't give a shit about the KJV choosing to keep the Vulgate's lucifer in Isaiah 14:12, it's just that it is immensely retarded to use the same language to translate different words by itself, not to mention when a young, impressionable Protestant might confuse Jesus with the king full of hubris Isaiah is talking about.
>>
>>677459
>"Lucky is the lion that the human eats, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human the lion will eat, and the lion will still become human."
Rome. Dietary laws. Supremacy of Judaism over Rome.

>>677784
>"Whoever does not hate father and mother cannot be my disciple, and whoever does not hate brothers and sisters, and carry the cross as I do, will not be worthy of me."
Be an Essene.

>>677928
>Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one from a thousand and two from ten thousand, and they will stand as a single one."
It's a small sect, so you're super lucky.

>>678156
>“Simon Peter said to them, ‘Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life.’ Jesus said, ‘I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven.’”
Humanist universalism interpreted from the ritual "norm" of masculinity.

>>678160
>Thomas 84.
>Jesus said "when you see your likeness, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before you and neither die nor become visible, how much you will have to bear!"
I think this is something to do with Pharisee conceptions of the afterlife.

>>678303
>The next quote is Thomas 98.
>"The father's kingdom is like a person who wanted to kill someone powerful. While still at home he drew his sword and thrust it into the wall to find out whether his hand would go in. Then he killed the powerful one".
You can't make Israel unless you make Israel in yourselves first. Pretty basic prophet's call to the lost Jews.

>>678520
>The next quote is Thomas 10.
>"I have cast fire upon this world, and look, I am guarding it until it blazes."
You seem to really be enjoying the quotes that are obviously about a militant sect. Like always this stuff is reread as "faith" after the fact. But the Lion & Man discussion is pretty much dead revolutionary.
>>
>>678303
>"The father's kingdom is like a person who wanted to kill someone powerful. While still at home he drew his sword and thrust it into the wall to find out whether his hand would go in. Then he killed the powerful one".
Psalm 149:6
Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, And a two-edged sword in their hand,

Revelation 1:16
In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Sword metaphors can be found all over the place in the canonical books. Thomas' quote shows how the weapon that is the Kingdom can affect anyone regardless of his earthly power (powerful big guy 4 u), regardless of what is in the way (distance because the killer is at his own home, the wall because you cannot protect yourself from it), and it will strike true and go all the way in hilt and hand.

Isaiah 66:16
For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on all flesh,
And those slain by the Lord will be many.

>>678520
>"I have cast fire upon this world, and look, I am gaurding it until it blazes."

Exodus 3:2
The angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed.

Jesus is basically a world-wide permanent burning bush, a constant divine revelation and guidance for all mankind.

The quote also has a pneumatological interpretation:

Acts 2:3-4
And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

The fire is the Holy Spirit spreading worldwide.
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>>678160
>Jesus said "when you see your likeness, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before you and neither die nor become visible, how much you will have to bear!"
John 3:20
For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

John 7:24
Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.

Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight,
But the Lord weighs the motives.

Psalm 51:6
Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being,
And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom.
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>>680236
Thomas was written either a little before or after 100ad.
>>
OP here

The first quote of February 11 is Thomas 19

Jesus said, "Blessed is he who came into being before he came into being. If you become my disciples and listen to my words, these stones will minister to you. For there are five trees for you in Paradise which remain undisturbed summer and winter and whose leaves do not fall. Whoever becomes acquainted with them will not experience death."
>>
OP here. Its been one full hour with no response so I guess we will end here. For those of you who offered carefully consider interpretations the taste of death will never touch your tongues. Shitposters face Eternal Dalmatian unless the repent their reddit ways.
Until next time! Keep searching Gnostics!
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>>682699
thanks!
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