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Was it a genocide?
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

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Was it a genocide?
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>>673423
Territorial expansion!
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>>673436
>Territorial expansion!

And what seems to be an almost complete population replacement along the way. There's less than 500k of Chams remaining.
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>>673423
yes, but they aren't white so who cares
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>>673423
>Late 900's AD
>Guys, we are finally free of China after a millenium.
>Let us do to the Cham what the Chinese did to us :DDDDD
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>>673423
Proof that Martiarchal Societies BTFO by The Patriarchy.
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>>673536
weren't they still tributaries of China? wasn't the whole far east tributaries of China.
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>>673553
Tributary Relationship just meant you can trade with China, say hello to their Emperor, and receive gifts/assistance from China

Not like the real cucked ones like Steppe Nomads under China's employ, Southern Tribals or Post-Kingdom Tibet
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>>673553
pretty much most of that region were tributaries, but they still fought between each other like nobody's business
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>>673423
For the Cham, there were certainly genocidal policies (i.e. kill all Champa you encounter in X area) at times, though I don't know about the expansion as a whole. Considering the limitations put on intermarriage, I wouldn't be surprised if the degree of cultural assimilation was relatively low as well. However, it's hard for me to envision a total population replacement, especially considering the draws of the Champa states were economic, so you would expect Dai Viet to focus on administrative control of existing systems, rather then annihilation and settlement.

Accounts of the wars show that the Cham routinely suffered heavy casualties, and their capitals when captured were often razed – but the surrounding provinces and polities seemed to be left relatively intact, as the spoils the wars were fought over.

As for the Mekong delta in the south, it seems that the native Khmer and Cham were mostly subsumed and assimilated by Vietnamese settlement – a process which formally began at the invitation of the Khmer king, though it culminated in the region's annexation by Vietnam a century later.

Keep in mind, that even into the 19th century, south of the lands of the Ly dynasty on your map the Vietnamese were only a majority population in a thin stretch along the coast, and later in the Mekong delta. The majority of the area (although considering geography, not necessarily the majority of population) that they conquered continued to be inhabited by Mon-Khmer and Chamic tribes.

Keep in mind that the major population centers were along the Mekong in the south, and the Red River in the north. The coastal stretch the Cham inhabited was considerably less populous by area, with population centered densely on the coastal Champu emporiums.

>>673540
That's actually one of the reasons for their near-disappearance as an ethnicity. Cham+Viet marriages would be reckoned only on the father's side, so every generation more children would 'be' Vietnamese than Cham.
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>>673558
>>673560

But didn't they have to ask china's permission anytime they made diplomacy decisions. I just remember reading chinese history and their tributaries would constantly complain about the vietnamese being slaver assholes and wanted to china to tell them to simmer down.
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