When you are being invaded, and the rifle allows you to kill a man from 100 yards away, and you are on your home turf, then women are useful soldiers. Soviet women did not join the rank and file on the march to Berlin, but did engage with the enemy during the blitz.
>>671312 >No they weren't the only difference between German and Russian rapes were that the Germans killed their victims afterwards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht#Mass_rapes
Bullshit: > In the Soviet Union alone an estimates regarding the rape of Soviet women by the Wehrmacht range up to 10,000,000 incidents, with between 750,000 and 1,000,000 children being born as a result.
There are sporadic but numerous examples, mostly in the context of a static defense. There's a lot of misinformation on this topic, such as the whole shieldmaidens meme and Soviet propaganda. A more accurate example would be Japanese castle sieges where women would participate in the defense when the expectation was that they would be killed if the defense failed. Actually taking women on a campaign in a fighting role is practically unheard of.
Yep that's the typical example, either family members or prostitutes or service industry people. On occasion they find a broad buried with a sword or something and some journalists write an article, but I've never seen anything credible on dedicated female warriors in any culture that weren't a PR stunt or thinly veiled pornography fanfics.
>>671605 >No the Japanese just raped their victims until they expired. It's what they did in Nanjing
They did in the Dutch East Indies.
>A horrific example of the attitude of the occupying Japanese towards local Dutch residents is demonstrated by the case of 21-year-old Jan O’Herne interned at Ambarara, Java, along with thousands of other white women and children. The Japanese decided to force some of the girls into becoming ‘comfort women’, a term they used for the enforced prostitution of local women throughout their conquered empire. The Dutch girls and young women would become sex slaves to provide amusement for Japanese officers. All girls aged seventeen and above were ordered to report for an inspection at the camp in February 1944. Seven girls, deemed the most attractive by the Japanese, were picked out from the group, told to pack, and were placed on a truck and driven to a large former Dutch residence in the town of Selarang. The house, known subsequently as the ‘House of the Seven Seas’, was a military brothel. O’Herne and her compatriots were to endure repeated rapes and beatings night and day at the hands of Japanese military and naval officers, and those girls who unfortunately became pregnant were also beaten until they suffered miscarriages. After four months of enduring continual sexual assault and violence at the hands of the Japanese – who in the words of Australian Army war crimes investigator Captain J.G. Godwin (who conducted the interrogations of naval personnel involved in the Laha Airfield Massacres recounted shortly), ‘relished the opportunities to humiliate and ravish prisoners, particularly women and girls of European origin’ – they were released back to their families.
woman have an easier time crawling through rubble and shitty tight spaces to get into nice spots, they got a bit more patience, and for women who wanted a combat role, it's by far better than anything else because if not that, then they'd have to be around all the other sweaty dudes wanting to fuck to stay warm and forget that the krauts downstairs still want to kill them
Don't know or care about the rest, but they are 100% mythology. I'm guessing all ancient woman warriors were. They have less overall mass and strength. That would be very detrimental when charging an enemy or swinging a heavy sword around.
>>670959 > how much of it is propaganda? None? As in "ignoring non-ground combat forces like Night Witch regiment there were tens of thousands female soldiers on the front lines and hundreds of thousands in Red Army"?
Or everything? As in "there were no all-female bare-chested barbarian units in Red Army trained to engage in honorable fisticuffs with the enemy"? Granted, there were no such units at all, but that's beside the point.
Is this yet another "i'm feeling small in the pants" thread by /pol/acks?
It's an objective fact that the Soviet Union propagandized at extraordinary levels. It's why several historians have made careers of fact checking and researching the archives only made available after the collapse of the USSR.
> It's why several historians have made careers of fact checking and researching the archives only made available after the collapse of the USSR. That's retarded. USSR is important enough to have historians making careers researching it for a long long time.
There were several dozens of thousands to little below 200 thousands female soldiers in Soviet army during WW2. Propaganda sure, "inflated" those numbers by focusing on them quite a lot. You see, while it sounds impossible that there were so many female soldiers, you have to consider the fact that the red army counted from 8-12 Millions soldiers. At some points they didn't have control over majority of USSR's big population centres and those women either manned AA defences, served in various axillary roles(communications, snipers etc.) and few of them may have been pilots.
Some people do far-reaching conclusions based on this, but while what I've said is true(as in - lots of women served in the Red Army ranks, some of them on the frontlines too) it wasn't like you've had entire squads of slav qts storming cellars in Stalingrad or spending 14 hours a day in tanks during Bargation or whatever. USSR was starving for manpower and needed every pair of able hands it could get but sure as fuck they weren't stupid and didn't put those women in roles that demanded some enormous strength or endurance they couldn't possibly have.
Compared to all other combatants who didn't employ political commissars nor have need to spin Bolshevist tales of equality between the sexes.
>Even the example of Russian women in World War II should not be overstated. Soviet women were expected to people the production lines rather than the battle lines. "In 1945," emphasizes Alexander Werth, "fifty-one percent of all industrial workers in the Soviet Union were women."6 Women were also looked to for the urgent business of replacing the nation's 20 million lives lost in the war. The Order of Mother-Heroine was established in 1944 in recognition of women bearing ten or more live children as opposed to women bearing arms. Soviet women at war were expected to produce armaments and children. To the extent that they were used at all in actual combat has been described by one thoughtful commentator as "an exercise in public relations, designed to impress the outside world with the underdog position of [Russia]."
>George M. Quester, "Women in Combat," International Security, Spring 1977, p. 81.
Except some nitpicking: > red army counted from 8-12 Millions soldiers. More. After summer of '42 the Red Army went over 11 millions and stayed there until the end of WW2. If we were to assume some rotation of people (discharged/enlisted), the number goes over way over 11 millions.
Some evidence of this is picrelated: almost 15 mln (14 933 000) Soviet soldiers were awarded for participating in the war against Reich. And then there was Far Eastern front, as well as southern regiments. Imo we can put the number around 16-17 million soldiers.
>>672226 >no numbers are given other than femininity factor among industrial workers >BUT IT HAZ TEH AUTHORITY
As a number crunching autist I say you're full of shit.
Give numbers, proportions, statistics and then we can talk about the scale of propaganda because in my honest opinion, female combatants WERE present in some relatively big quantities on the Eastern Front except proportionally to the size of the Red Army it wasn't "that much". And some of them fought on the front-line, not in enormously demanding positions like tank crew or artillery but they did some fighting.
There's a very popular legend in Portugal about a woman recking the Castillians.
After the battle of Aljubarrota, 3 fleeing Castillians asked a woman, a huge barrel of a woman, to let them hide from the Portuguese army in her house. She agreed and told them to hide in her bread oven. Then she took her oar and smashed them to death while they were stuck inside the oven. Then she led a militia of women to fuck up the other castillians that were running away.
>Female Soldiers >Noone mentions the Taiping The Taipings basically completely turned around traditional chinese culture: Redistribute the Land, ditch Confucianism (for the most part), turn "Christian", have men and women be pretty much equal. Apparently they fared pretty good in Combat too. Not too surprising seeng as they were told they'd slay literal demons i.e. Manchu.
>>672174 >There were several dozens of thousands to little below 200 thousands female soldiers in Soviet army during WW2. Propaganda sure, "inflated" those numbers by focusing on them quite a lot.
It was a photo shoot. They didn't even try to be realistic with their claims. They claimed the women were on par with or better than men. Every piece of verifiable evidence we have (such as women soldiers in Israel) has shown women underperforming by every metric. There shouldn't be this level of discrepancy, and it is highly indicative of deception.
>USSR was starving for manpower
Yeah, there is no evidence of that. They had significantly more manpower than the Nazis, and they never used women. People will look at this like it is some fault on the Nazis part, but, like I said, the evidence that the Soviets had any female soldiers at all is dubious.
All Soviet claims should be re-evaluated. There are too many internal and external inconsistencies for most of their claims to be true. Most of their claims rely on your ignorance of reality or magical thinking.
>>673217 The only people claiming actual fighting are the Russians. So basically, we can assume women don't fight and never have, and if they did it was an extremely isolated incident in which they underperformed men by every metric.
>>672244 It obviously refutes those claims, did you even read it?
>>672250 This is like the Holocaust: it happened because they said if happened. There is absolutely no evidence to back up anything the Soviets said. There has been attempts to impede scientific evaluation of the facts, even. All Soviet claims must be re-evaluated. You can't take any of them as truth.
You might not like it, but here is the truth: the Soviets didn't claim gas chambers; they claimed Jew soap, Jew lampshades, Nazis eating babies, and gas chambers. We have managed to get past the first three; all that is left is to apply scientific methods to the fourth—like collating census reports, testing the soil, and getting a date on building add-ons (some of the chimneys look to be added by the Soviets ex post facto).
The wrong mindset has been applied to the Soviets. It isn't true until proven false anymore. There has already been so many falsehoods debunked that it is now false until proven true for anyone with a shred of intelligence.
>The reports also noted variously that the women soldiers suffered several defeats, but that the women soldiers were consistently judged to be superior to the male soldiers in effectiveness and bravery.
>>673256 The PKK is propaganda a la the Soviet Union. I remember a claim that a woman killed 100 men as an infantryman. That type of thing dies not happen in modern warfare. Their claims are reliant upon magical thinking and your ignorance of the dynamics of modern war.
I'm guessing no women fight. If you are willing to lie, common sense dictates we accept all of your claims as lies unless the evidence is overwhelmingly in support of them. Their claims have nothing more than a few 30 seconds videos of them shooting rifles in the desert to substantiate them.
>>673322 That's how we know it is a lie. Every real world trial women have been put through has shown them to be inferior by every metric. If they wanted us to believe their rhetoric, they should have aimed lower. All real world evidence has shown a lack of strength, courage and competency. The women in Israel, for example, ran at the first sight of combat.
>he battle was also significant in that much of Dahomey's Amazon corps was lost in the engagement. >From the French arrival until October 14, Dahomey's Amazons were conspicuously absent from the fighting. Then, on the 15th, they reappear in nearly every later engagement inflicting significant losses especially against officers.
>>673344 What? There is nothing more inferior than pandering to women. Women will always despise you for not treating their opinions as irrelevant. A real man has a dick and doesn't put up with their woman's bullshit, which is exactly what they want, and exactly why you are going to get cucked by being the small dicked faggot that you are. They have absolutely no respect for your type, I hope you know that. Treat them like mental and physical children and they will love you forever. (Note: this doesn't mean being condescending or treating them like shit.)
>>673385 Implying my argument isn't airtight. Are you saying those claims weren't made by the Soviets? If they lied about most of it, what is so hard to believe about them lying about all of it?
Things that are true need no protection. Why is outlawed to question the Holoco$t in Europe? Why have all scientific evaluations been impeded? Why have all attemtps to revise the sources been denied by the mainstream historians?
>>673486 >Implying my argument isn't airtight. Are you saying those claims weren't made by the Soviets? If they lied about most of it, what is so hard to believe about them lying about all of it? The only historical record about Caligula comes from his political opponents, does it mean he wasn't freak? > Why is outlawed to question the Holoco$t in Europe? So Germans can't repeat what they did after WW1(started the "everybody wanted war" meme).
>>673486 >Why is outlawed to question the Holoco$t in Europe?
Oh, you're one of those "one country means the entire subcontinent" type of guys right? I'm quite free to deny holocaust as much as I want here in my cosy little irrelevant shithole.
Anyway, all the data is freely available, just look over all the census data of all the countries east of the Oder and the Alps pre 1939 and post 1945. I mean, I'm not gonna persuade you here, but it's up to you to figure out (or justify to yourself) how a few million slavs, jews and others were fabricated in census data of a dozen countries over a period of decades.
Must be the international jewery amirite...
Also, keep fighting the good fight, we mustn't let those "women" take any credit for anything amirite...
>>673497 They are connected. Would you trust a known liar? If someone lies once, they have shown their moral integrity, and you should never give someone more benefit of the doubt than they deserve. Gas chambers sound very made up. Germany was in the middle of an intense war and they supposedly took the time to execute Jews. That doesn't sound realistic, and even less so when you realize that that wasn't the extent of their claims.
So, let me ask you: do you just believe up until a point, or do you believe it all? Were there Jew lampshades and Jew soap or not? Why would you think you can select whatever claim you want out of a host of ridiculous ones? If one is disproven, all are disproven until you get your credibility back by proving a claim with concrete evidence. There has been a concentrated effort, as I've said here >>673299 , to impede scientific investigation which could prove definitively whether the purported atrocities occurred.
>>673520 >The only historical record about Caligula comes from his political opponents, does it mean he wasn't freak?
Very possible. Most of history is conjecture, to be quite honest. Even statistics and other ostensibly reliable methods can and have been debased with fraud and unwitting inaccuracies.
>So Germans can't repeat what they did after WW1(started the "everybody wanted war" meme).
This is a logical fallacy. Why would you be worried about a repeat? You would find the evidence that substantiates the Holyco$t and that would be it. Then claims that were founded on conjecture would be backed by science. The only reason you would want to outlaw debate is that there was never a first occurrence to repeat.
Female soldiers as equals of front line male soldiers is bullshit. You won't find credible numbers because it's the fucking Soviet Union.
What you can find is post war numbers, in which women make up less than one-third of one percent of the Soviet military. Nor are they drafted. Nor are they even allowed to attend any military colleges.
>>673544 Completely out of context. In my case I was arguing that the precedent that the Soviets set as liars should qualify them for re-evaluation. In my case I am arguing that the precedent supposedly set by the Holyco$t was predicated on fraudulent sources.
It's like this: say a car theif got caught red-handed and sentenced. He gets out and another car is stolen. There is no illogical reasoning in being suspicious of him. His past, which consisted of his own actions and is indicative of his moral integrity, shows him to be a car theif.
In the case of the Holyco$t, the claim is being disputed. You can't build an accurate conception of someone's integrity or past when the claim is still in dispute. The real world equivalent would be a man getting accused of rape by a woman with many known false rape convictions. If another girl claimed she got raped by some unknown man, you wouldn't suspect the first man because the precedent is in dispute. He is not a known rapist, whereas the car theif is a known car theif.
You can't use the excuse, "they might do it again" because that is what is being disputed. It is a cop-out. The implicit assumption is that they did it the first time, but you aren't allowing discussion of that first time. The entire premise is illogical and would never hold up to men of reason, only Jew shills.
>>673628 Let me change a few things to make this even more clear. Let's say the man went to jail on a rape charge. The woman who accused him gets caught red-handed falsley accusing others of rape ex post facto. In a fair justice system his case would be re-evaluated on that fact alone. Let's say that holes in the story that weren't recognized the first time show up (time discrepancies, alias conflictions, etc.). In this case you would have to re-evaluate the entire case. You can't even assume he is a rapist at that point. That is an unfair preconception considering the information you now have. You wouldn't say "don't trust the words of a rapist" because that precedent (assuming for the sake of argument that her accusation was the first and only one) is in question.
The Holyco$t is a situation where the accusers are known liars and there are logical errors with the story. You can't say "they might do it again" as an excuse to stop investigations. This would be like throwing the man back in jail in the face of new evidence, by just saying "nope, nope ... rapist!" You can't say don't trust the word of murderers when those very murders that you claim are the moral precedent are in question. It would be like saying you are a rapist, and therefore we are going to jail you, and also not listen to your testimony because rapists aren't trustworthy.
If you count skirmishing on horseback as ground combat, than the Scythians/Sauromatians definitely do. Tomb sites around the Black Sea have shown that women definitely participated in defensive warfare at the least, possibly in supporting roles as light cavalry in offensive raids on other nomadic groups. They did not make up a large portion of the total armed effort, but culturally they were required to participate in combat at least once in their lifetime.
Artistic BS rendering of Sauromatian warrior woman. Most likely did not fight with swords, however bows/arrows are a very common find in tombs, both as funereal goods and in arrowheads lodged in female remains.
>>670959 >Four of the five women pictured would be murdered by the advancing German military, while Irina Derzhavin (center, with pigtails) spent two years as a "favourite" of the 36th Grenadier Division of the Waffen-SS before her eventual suicide in 1944
>>673841 Please elucidate, sir. Where did I stray? I haven't noticed any historians claiming Jew soap or lampshades lately. Why is that? Why do they call them untrustworthy sources, instead of liars like they are? If all these claims came from the Soviets, then they are the rapists I talked about here >>673728 . You are giving them trust that they don't deserve.
You can't have it both ways. They are either a reliable source and I might stumble into a Jew skin lampshade while antique shopping, of they are liars. Which one is it? You don't get to pick specific claims. If they were accused at Nuremberg of turning Jews into soap, then that is what their argument is based on. If that is disproven, then another trial is in order.
Already mentioned, but Dahomey warrior women from Benin definitely count.
Originated in 17th cent. Dahomey as a bodyguard force, they adapted over time from bodyguards to infantry.
It's believed they were recruited into the main fighting force by virtue of necessity, as Dahomey was significantly smaller than several nearby rival tribes. They eventually became an elite force, used to impress European slave traders and keep order within their borders. Many European sources from the time refer to them as "Black Spartans" due to the vicious nature of their training (being forced to execute or torture prisoners as psychological conditioning) and the relative respect and elevated social status they enjoyed over regular members of the tribe.
Initially they were armed only with long knives or clubs, but with time they were armed with the guns available to the kingdom of Dahomey via the slave trade, ranging from Dutch muskets to American made rifles depending on decade.
Known in Dahomey as N'nonmiton, or mothers. At one point possibly made up a third of the army of Dahomey, and led two unsuccessful assaults on the Egba tribe next to them as infantry.
The majority of them were killed during the French invasion and colonization of Dahomey in the late 19th century. Their traditional assault tactics and loose firing discipline resulted in several total defeats, yet their propensity for decapitating french soldiers when they reached close range is well documented.
Some younger, uninitiated N'nonmiton survived the French and became travelling attractions.
This is a photo (possibly) of a N'nonmiton warrior
>>673913 >Dahomey warrior women from Benin definitely count.
No they don't. Stanley Alpern's book Amazons of Black Sparta: The Women Warriors of Dahomey is the only evidence of them ever existing, and most of his "evidence" is pulled from hearsay.
Basically, it is a classic case of women having never done anything so they have to invent successes instead. The book was written in 2011, and there were never any books on them up until that point, so I think it's safe to assume this is propaganda. Some of his claims are outrageous, too, like them fighting better than men.
There are, but usually you'll find them involved when shits gotten real for one side.
As a sidenote; with warfare becoming increasingly specialized there is LESS reason for women to be involved in frontline roles, especially in the infantry, i guess its ok for them to be pilots and shit.
Inb4 buttblasted tumblrinas come after me. Go and do your own research. The IDF and the US Marines have conducted research and its just not a good idea. I can't be assed spoonfeeding you with easily obtainable google results.
>She was wounded no fewer than nine times during her service. >In 1913, her brother received call-up papers for mobilization for the Second Balkan War. She chose to go in his place—cutting her hair and donning men's clothes and joining the Serbian army. She quickly saw action and received her first medal and was promoted to corporal in the Battle of Bregalnica. Engaged in battle, she sustained wounds and it was only then, when recovering from her injuries in hospital, that her true gender was revealed, much to the surprise of the attending physicians. >In 1914, in the early days of World War I, Savić was awarded her first Karađorđe Star with Swords after the Battle of Kolubara. She received her second Karađorđe Star (with Swords) after the Battle of the Crna Bend in 1916 when she captured 23 Bulgarian soldiers single-handedly.
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