Was the Islamic golden age really that impressive?

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>>668663
Yes and it was vastly superior to anything Christianity ever accomplished. Haven't you ever heard of the DARK ages???

t. Liberal cuckold

Yeah.

Nah.

It was more impressive that shit hole that was Europe of those times. Then Mongols happened and everything was ruined with fall of Baghdad and rise of religious orthodoxy against them.

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>>668663
Yeah but inb4 the contrarian reddit historians come here with...
>"acshuaally Islamic golden age is a myth guise it was just a bunch of Muslims stealing ancient Babylonian and Roman stuff, because all scientific progress is made in a vacuum and its impossible to build on prior knowledge without stealing.."
or
>" the scholars were all Persian not Arabs so obviously they can't be Muslim...ignore the fact that they called themselves Muslims tho.."

>>668663
what is it with attention whoring pics on this board that have nothing to do with the thread ?

>>668663
Short answer, no, not at all.
But it's complicated.

>Mudslime answer

WE HAD SPACESHIPS N' FLYN' MOSQUES N' SHIEEEET

>Neo-Nazi Stormfag answer

NO! THEY DID NOTHING AT ALL! BEING ETHNICALLY BERBER, EGYPTIAN, KURDISH, PERSIAN, OR TURKIC SUDDENLY MEANS YOU'RE NOT A MUSLIMS!

EVIL BROWNIE STOLE OUR GREEK COMPUTERS!!

>Reality

It was significant progress over the previous era, just like how the medieval Christians were advancing science. There wasn't a kill switch that turned everybody stupid.

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Not really, it's just a meme created by anticlerical historians to denigrate Christianity.

>>668772
>Not really, it's just a meme created by anticlerical historians to denigrate Christianity.
Anticlericanism was strongest at times when people openly loathed the muzzies.

Of course among some of our contemporaries, I wouldn't be surprised that man make some bizarre chain of assumptions like Medieval times=powerful Church=pure evil=contrary to good = islamic we wuz folden age and shit.

Using foreign lands and, if anything, foreign lands considered inferior has been a common trope to criticize the times in Europe. Montesquieu wasn't serious about Persia being great in writing the Persian letters. He just wanted to throw bants about France.

Is it true that that the Arabs didn't do much compared to the Turks, Persians etc. or is that just a meme?

>>668663
What is impressive is subjective since some people are easier to impress than others.

I'll say that the islamic golden age was able to be impressive for a lot of people, as long as you understand what the islamic golden age is instead of memeing. For example, this picture >>668772 has an islamic building that wasn't built in the islamic golden age. And a christian building that wasn't build in the dark age, unless you use a definition that is no longer acceptable in the academia.

>>668772
> average mosque
> best chapel in Europe
nice cherry picking

>>668798
It depends a lot of what you consider "doing much".

It is true that after the early expansion a lot of the islamic rulers were not arab (after around the 1000~, they were mostly altaic people). It is also true that a lot of the famous scholars were persians, greeks or andalusians.

>>668772

The Dome of the Rock was built 500 years before that Cathedral you posted.

Try again.

>>668772
Why is anything that praises a non-Christian culture always a conspiracy to undermine Christianity?

>>668798
What the fuck turks even done? I can't name even one ottoman invention.

>>668798
Yes, many of Islamic scholars were not Arab but that doesn't matter since they were still Muslim.

>>668822

Christians and Stormfags are easily triggered.

They also tend to buy into the meme that all civilizations (even the ancient Chinese and Olmecs) were Nordic white masterrace before the evil Jews/Mudslime/Reptillians overtook the world

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>>668772
Negro, your post was about as intellectually honest as pic-related.

>>668798
Turks did even less than Arabs though. They were a seemingly military only race that didn't care much about anything else for a long time.
It also varies according to what you consider "Arab". As in actually Arab Bedouins as against, say, Syriac people.

>>668814
>greeks

What?

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>>668798
I started reading this not too long ago and that seems to be the implication, yeah.

>>668813
>average mosque
Bait.
>Best chapel in Europe
Not a chapel, and pleb taste if that's your pick for best Church in Europe.

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The Middle East reached its zenith during the Abbasid era.

Baghdad and Samarra in particular had infrastructure that was unparalleled in the world at the time (except perhaps China) and surpassed the previous civilizations that came before the Abbasids.

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>>668813
>>668820

Am I the only one that likes the dome of the rock more? This cathedral is too grey, at least it looks in this picture. I know it's a bait picture, but they could have selected a nicer church. Not to mention that the best about gothic churches is the inside (although muslims have a lot of nice interiors too).

>>668843
Funny how none of the marvelous infrastructure has any archeological evidence for it.

The whole historical basis for the existance of an "Islamic Golden Age" are the writings of Arab poets, who were notoriously bullshiters.

>>668824
Rule the middle east for centuries, even way before the ottomans.

>>668830
Egypt and Syria was full of greeks and they didn't disappear when the arabs conquered the land.

>>668826
>Christians

Heathens (>dead kike on a stick) are the ones to blame desu

>>668855
>Funny how none of the marvelous infrastructure has any archeological evidence for it.
You mean besides the excavated site of the entire city of Samarra

>>668772
Isn't the Christian way hundreds of years older than the Islamic one in that picture?

Would sure fucking help if you gave the name of the places in your pic.

>>668866
It would undermine his point if he did that.

>>668822
It's not any non-Christian culture, but promoting the concept of an "Islamic Golden Age" goes hand in hand with an attack on Medieval Christendom and you know that.

>>668855

>What are the archaeological excavations at Samarra
>What are the archaeological excavations at Gerrha
>What are accounts of Baghdad by non-Muslim travelers

kill yourself

>>668866
It is, you can know it even without knowing where the church is since it's clearly gothic or influenced by it. Gothic architecture didn't exist when the dome of the rock was built.

>>668873
Only if you read SJW blogs instead of actual medievalists that defend both the islamic golden age and stuff like the crucial role of the european universities in the middle ages.

>>668873
Virtually every instance I've seen the Islamic Golden Age contrasted with Medieval Christendom is to defend against Christian detractors who condemn Islam as regressive and barbaric.

>>668692
>shithole pf Europe
>yet a large percentage of texts and knowledge came from Byzantium

>>668873
> attack on Medieval Christendom
What do you mean by this?

>>668892

>Christian detractors who condemn Islam as regressive and barbaric.

Well there you have it then

>>668901
There I have what?

>>668894
Byzantium was alright, yes. But people always imply catholic Europe and dark ages wasn't do bright for catholics.

>>668898

He means Christians get triggered when they hear about how there actually was a time when "le evil shitskin mudslime" had the upper hand in the power dynamics between Islam and Christendom in terms of science, technology, wealth, and empire.

>>668913

And people forgets about Visigothic Spain.

Golden Age just means the best of, every religion,culture,etc has had its "Golden Age"

>>668894
For Europe they mean western christendom, the real ancestor of modern Europe. The orthodox world was a different civilization, an ever-forgotten third actor in the triumvirate of civilizations that ruled western eurasia during the middle ages (and the most advanced for a long time). Only a fistful of european nations can nowadays claim to be heirs of this third civilization and they're subject of contempt (Serbia, Greece) or even sometimes branded as non europeans (Russia) for no reason.

>>668929
This. Why does people always forget this?

>>668926
Wasn't that an unstable shithole?

>>668961

The Northern Christian parts, yes.

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>>668754
>WE HAD SPACESHIPS N' FLYN' MOSQUES N' SHIEEEET

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>This Thread

>>668904
It.

>>668961

Full of literacy and culture.

>>668974

>Expecting anything other than Protestants who only learned history from Hollywood circlejerking on /his/

kek

>>668826
>They also tend to buy into the meme that all civilizations (even the ancient Chinese and Olmecs) were Nordic white masterrace before the evil Jews/Mudslime/Reptillians overtook the world

People take that seriously?

>>668988

Nigger have you even been to /pol/?

>>668990
Not really

I mostly /b/, /fit/, and /lit/

I'm pretty sure the entirety of /pol/ is pure meme

>>668993

Pre-Zimmerman it was mostly memes and shitposting

Post-Zimmerman it's real

>>668847
That Cathedral actually looks pretty bad ass to be honest family

>>668988

Nordicist do.
They need something to fill thousands of years of history.

>>668986
Im fairly new to /his/ so I guess I haven't been around the board long enough to tell

>>668824
how about... the ottoman?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_(furniture)

>>668824
>Made the Caliphate it's bitch
>Conquered north India

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>>668663
Quite a lot. Just the fact they opened permanent commercial connections between all the ends of the known world, and cultivated a civilization based on private property and in the natural order, which in turn made it possible of diffusion knowledge and culture in scales never seen before; during centuries and between completely different peoples with no affinity, it is a milestone of human civilization.

>>668855
Go thank the Mongols for that

>>668843
Is that supposed to be Merv? Or am I mistaken?

>>668988
The psychological profile of /pol/ is the feeling of insecurity, which is attempted to be filled by associating themself with their race, "white". Naturally this means that the racial concepts we have now have been the same ones through-out all recorded history.

Any time a non-white race is successful it makes them feel insecure so they need to either deface or take credit for it. Any faults in the "white" race must be blamed by outside forces, usually the Jews but also removing themself from Christianity.

They really don't care if something is historically accurate all they need is their feeling justified and if someone does post historical data they can always call them a kike, a shill, a Muslim, or degenerate.

>>668726
I guess its this boards signature meme

>>668726
ignore the pics, i've seen threads almost identical to this one every three days, i don't understand, are there people who are really surprised that something good came from islamic nations? how ignorant can people be ?

>>669711

>are there people who are really surprised that something good came from islamic nations? how ignorant can people be ?

See >>669349
and >>668826

>>668724
muslims the minority in the Caliphates during the "golden age". They were mostly the ruling class. The Caliphates and the Ottoman Empire, imported a lot of foreign scholars.

>>668663
I don't understand why it matters that the Muslims were more powerful than Christians once. It's like an age old inferiority complex reaching back into time to say
>NO WE WAZ STRONK FOR ALWAYS

>>669976
I don't understand why it matters that the Italians were more powerful than Germans once. It's like an age old inferiority complex reaching back into time to say
>NO WE WAZ STRONK FOR ALWAYS

>>668663
Well yeah I mean are people really surprised that Islam had the advantage over Christianity at that point when Islam controled much richer lands than Christians at that time. But don't get me wrong it's not like the Islamic golden age was key changing time in my opinion only very events go on that list.
>Farming
>Metallurgy
>Creation of states
>Industrial Revolution

>>668663
Of course it was. It just wasn't that Islamic.

[The Islamic Golden Age] wasn’t that Islamic. While Harun al-Rashid and Ma’mun, the caliphates at the time, were strictly speaking “the rulers of the faithful” and their regime was theocratic, they came much closer to secularism than we ever did before or after. Ma’mun supported the Mu’tizili sect who believed in rationality and the scientific method, and tolerated religious dissidence and even non-believers. And also by all accounts these caliphs drank wine. So this era is not defined by the Muslim majority world following the tenets of Islam.
Also, by ascribing these things to Islam, you are ignoring the presence of non-believers in that movement, such as the translator Ibn al-Muqaffa’, or Muhammad al Warraq (who may have believed in god but certainly not Islam), or Ibn al-Rawandi.
But if you say this, you are replicating the authoritarian attitude of Islam even more fundamentally than ignoring non-Muslims.
Islam, basically, is a hegemony that spreads by trying to define everything by itself. It has rules for everything, and it makes its presence known in everything. But more fundamentally, it claims everything as its own. Science in Muslim majority country is Islamic science, economy in Muslim majority country is Islamic economy, art in Muslim majority country is Islamic art. That is why even the title “The Islamic Golden Age” is a repressive misnomer, and a reinforcement of Islamic hegemony. It can be the Middle Eastern and North African Golden Age, but to call it Islamic it means those territories belong to Islam and they are a sub-category of Islam. That is why us ex-Muslims feel so much excluded, because every aspect of our culture is defined by Islam.

This whole binary "Islam" vs. "Christianity" way of looking at scientific advancement is ridiculous in the context of the early Middle Ages considering much of the Middle East wasn't even Muslim and certainly not homogenous at all in anyway. While the socioeconomic prosperity enjoyed by some polities fell under the umbrella of Islamic society, it's just so simplisitic to say that the prosperity and advancement of Baghdad at the time and the prosperity of Cordoba were simply because there were quite a few Muslims there. The only relevance Islam has to the golden ages of some of these regions centered around the Mediterranean is that it provided a groundwork for law and that during more tolerant times, Jews and Christians were also allowed to go about their business and often allowed to contribute to society, hence why the Jewish Golden Age fell under the same period in Spain.

>>670077
So because the rules/philosophers of the time followed a more rational, liberal interpretation of Islam than today, that made them un-Islamic?

That just means that modern Hanbali Islamic interpretation is dogshit.

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>>669751
the famous scholars, Ibn Sina, Al-Khwarizmi, Al ghazali, Al-Zahwari, Al Kindi etc etc all were Muslim and often wrote religious essays.
nice try at revisionist history though

>>670228
Arabic Numerals are from Hindu India.

Algebra has Greek origins.

>>670245
Your point? Arabs used indian numerals and standardized its use in the world.
Persian scholars took Greek mathematical principles and built on it , creating Algebra- hence why it is an Arabic word.

>>670134
>That just means that modern Hanbali Islamic interpretation is dogshit.
>implying the Hanbalis aren't the closest to actual islamic doctrine
Just because they produce dogshit results doesn't mean their interpretation is wrong.

>>670228
Avisenna and Kwarizmi both built upon a long tradition of Persian, Syriac, and Greek science in the region. A tradition that continued for a while, but was gradually snuffed out.

>>670256
SandRat peddlers sell another culture's concepts as their own.

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>>668663
This thread is idiocy.

Islamic Golden Age doesn't mean a golden age ushered in by Islam. It means a golden age FOR Islam.

>>670267
>>670275
Scientific progress is rarely made in a vacuum.
Obviously they built on prior knowledge. Its not as if they just rewrote what earlier scholars developed.

Saying that Muslims literally created nothing is literally "we wuz kangs" tier revisionism
Also This >>670278

>>668822

only on 4chan, anywhere else not so much anon

>>669175
>No river trade routes

>>668754
>just like how the medieval Christians were advancing science

The Medieval Christians did jackshit until the translated Greek and Arabic material. There's a reason natural philosophy and mathematics take off a bit in the 13th century then die due to well-known events, then the meteoric rise of "modern" science from the 16th century on happens.

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>>668827

>>668663
Yes now stop asking this question, ideologue

>>668822
Because Christians are fueled entirely by ressentiment and anything that doesn't give Christianity power over everything is the debbil.

>>670858
Greeks are Euriopeans

>>670946
Greeks are middle eastern.

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>>670963

>>670946
Obviously but medieval Christians still didn't do much for a number of reasons. Even Byzantium which had better access to the material resorted to translating Arabic material towards the end of its existence.

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>>668827
>>670869

>>671107
>Far from being a stagnant dark age, as the first half of the Medieval period (500-1000 AD) certainly was

Pretty much.

>>668692
>Thinking that the Mongols ended the golden age of Islam
>Implying that their Golden Age (as fantastic as it was) wasn't based directly on western discoveries.
>Implying to know shit about shit

>>668937
In what way would Serbia be a heir to the Eastern Roman Empire?

>>672628
A big chunk of the Balkan states lay in the heart of Byzantium, but it's a bit silly to call them successor states. Greece maybe, but even then. They have been engulfed either by slavic or western Christian influence, so it's a bit odd people try to think of them as byzantine (again, maybe greece). I think it may be because slavs are also orthodox, making the transition a bit less obvious than the Catholic and Muslim takeover of other East Roman states.

>>674498
>A big chunk of the Balkan states lay in the heart of Byzantium
I know, but I can't believe that's what he meant.

By that logic, Turkey would be the quintessential "heir" to the ERE.

"The Islamic Golden Age was neither Islamic, Golden, nor an Age" - Anon, /his/ 2016

>>674583
>ethnicity stops you from being Muslim

I hope these guys are trolls

>>668663
Not really they just copied stuff from the people they conquered.