[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | Home]
4Archive logo
SCW
If images are not shown try to refresh the page. If you like this website, please disable any AdBlock software!

You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

Thread replies: 60
Thread images: 12
File: Civil2.jpg (594 KB, 2315x1704) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
Civil2.jpg
594 KB, 2315x1704
Why did the Soviet Union only offer token help to Loyalist forces in the Spanish Civil War? Why was the response of the Soviets so different to that of the Nazi's? Why were the democratic governments so passive?
>>
France was very polarised. Blum wanted to help, and he sent some supplies, but his country was on the brink of a civil war

Britain wanted to stay out from the problems of Europe. They maintained this position until September 1939

Soviet Union forbid cooperation of communists and other left-wing forces until Hitler's rise. They corected this blunder, but were slow to act
>>
>>665875
German Nazis and Italian Fascists saw it as a crucial battleground for their nascent ideology
>>
>>665854
Because placating the French and British states were of greater importance in Soviet geopolitics due to the United Front / Socialism in One Country line.

Supporting the Spanish republic would have supported the Trotsky line rather than the Stalin line and resulted in party divisions during a period when they were clinging onto the 2nd 5 year plan by the skin of their teeth and already liquidating the party in purges.

Read Fitzpatrick's every day stalinism.
>>
File: 1452129831374.jpg (158 KB, 508x590) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1452129831374.jpg
158 KB, 508x590
>you will never be a young Falangist killing anarchists and communists everyday
It hurts to live.
>>
File: image.jpg (58 KB, 373x500) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
image.jpg
58 KB, 373x500
>>665900
>ywn slaughter fascist pigs and their moroccan mercenaries
>>
>>665900
Fascist
>Sophisticated anime picture
>Neutral elegant dubs
>>665911
Communist
>Plebeian Tier "propaganda"
>"LOOK AT ME AM DA NUMBA ONEEE" dubs
>>
File: xGqJDlNl.jpg (39 KB, 528x640) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
xGqJDlNl.jpg
39 KB, 528x640
>>665900
>>665911
>mfw cozy at home marching with Mosley
>>
>>665900
>>665911
>>665966
This isn't happening
>>
>>665966
Reminder that Mosley and his scum got shit beaten by London.
>>
File: 1452471072778.jpg (863 KB, 2448x2448) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1452471072778.jpg
863 KB, 2448x2448
>>665911
>Republican propaganda
>doesn't even have the Republican flag colours
>>
File: 1442973607759.jpg (281 KB, 1280x743) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1442973607759.jpg
281 KB, 1280x743
>>665991
No wonder London is so... "special" now.
>>
>>665991
Reminder that many of those who took part in the battle of cable street were shipped in from across the country for the event to try and stop Mosley's march through one of his political strongholds, the real scum are the ones who resorted to violence and disrupting a non-violent march desu
>>
File: image.png (24 KB, 2000x1441) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
image.png
24 KB, 2000x1441
>>665994
It was made in Czechoslovakia for the 25th anniversary of the foundation of International Brigades

Author probably wasn't aware the Republic had different flag
>>
File: image.jpg (101 KB, 368x500) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
image.jpg
101 KB, 368x500
>>666014
It was a success

Political uniforms were banned and British fascists fell into obscurity

Violence is sometimes necessary to stop evil
>>
>>666039
Thank GOD (and his one and true prophet PBUH) we killed all those bigoted fascist bastards because I just LOVE to dismantle my once great empire and to be economically, politically, militarily and culturally dependent on other nations!
>>
>>665854
>Why did the Soviet Union only offer token help to Loyalist forces in the Spanish Civil War?
They offered the only major contributions including but not limited to funds, materiel, personnel. They were however limited because they couldn't risk making overt aid known since everyone in the world would have taken any reason to organize all out war against them. In contrast the liberal, and otherwise, governments of the world didn't give a flying fuck what the fascists did as long as it meant killing leftist democratic movements like anarchism and communism. And a hundred years later the descendants of those liberal bystanders (in some cases outright aides) to fascism go on Australian Frisbee Enthusiast websites to talk about why the Soviets "only offered token help" to the Republican cause.
>>
File: bye bye polio.jpg (342 KB, 1403x1008) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
bye bye polio.jpg
342 KB, 1403x1008
>>666039
Very true
>>
>>666100
>They offered the only major contributions
Mexico wants a fucking word cunt.
>>
>>666011
Didn't Hitler and other fascists praise islamic culture for it's militancy? An didn't Franco used mercenary moros to fight in the SCW? Also, you don't have to be a fascist to hate the moros.
>>
>>666145
Didn't Mexico only give diplomatic support?
>>
>>666100
My ancestor fought in the International Brigades

After being interned in the concentration camp, he was almost senteced to death in the purges after communist coup and spent 6 years doing hard labour in Uranium mines

That's what he got for being a naïve leftist and not a card-carrying opportunist
>>
was it even possible for the USSR to send more help to the republicans? they were on the other side of the continent with a very small navy and air force

trying to ferry 10k or 20k men across the north sea would have resulted in the italian and german fleets blockading spanish ports
>>
>>666151
>>wiki
>Mexico furnished $2,000,000 in aid and provided some material assistance, which included rifles, food and a small amount of American-made aircraft such as the Bellanca CH-300 and Spartan Zeus that served in the Mexican Air Force.
>>
>>666153
>My ancestor fought in the International Brigades
He doesn't represent a state, so it's a bit of a moot point. Don't really care about your butthurt either.

>>666158
Didn't know that. Cheers.
>>
>>666153
You mean as a class conscious worker he got fucked by states and nomenklatura-capitalists? REALLY? OH MY GOD—WHEN DID BEING A REVOLUTIONARY BECOME HARD?

>was it even possible for the USSR to send more help to the republicans?
Force the Anglo-French blockade with the Black Sea Fleet.

They probably could have sent a corps as "volunteers."
>>
>>666039
>evil

You do realise Mosley cared more for the average worker than the Labour party of the time, Mosley was a man of action motivated by his experiences in the war, to build the land fit for heroes the wartime coalition promised and never built. Labour was still dominated by men who's only really ambition was power (Ramsay MacDonald) and those who no longer had a radical flame (Philip Snowden) the party as content to embrace the establishment and old way of things, while Mosley looked to the future, became an early discipline of Keynes, and promised all Attlee is praised for; back in 1930, which is why Mosley left Labour, for it was not a party of evil.

I'll concede that due to the growing influence of actual fifth columnists like William Joyce the British Union of Fascists was in a serious irreversable decline due to Joyce's rabid anti-Semitism.

But was Mosley really evil like you claim? His policies were focussed around employment and national revival, Mosley wished to spend to create new jobs, to create supply leading to demand, a concept embraced by the modern left after Attlee. He wanted to end British involvement in foreign conflicts from the beginning, to focus on the problems at home and to protect Britain rather than let British men bleed and die again for foreign interests and the elite, after experiencing the horrors of WWI.

The only controversial policies espoused are suggested repatriation of foreign nationals, so the peoples of their own counties may better their homes, never was hatred or intolerance supported, only that a country care for her own first to better them, so they may better their country. The Jews Mosley supported the establishment of a national home for, so they may have their own nation again too. No dictatorship was supported, only a new democratic system where voters voted for representatives based on their field from their field, rather than voting on arbitrary old geographical lines, a more democratic system.
>>
>>666193
The only thing that fucked the Republicans was the Anarchists and their inability to maintain solidarity under pressure when the war was turning against them. As if massacring the unaligned peasantry and anyone that isn't orthodox enough for you (yes, Republicans did this) is a viable, nevermind worthy, option for self-described "class conscious workers".
>>
>>666253
So what made this pacifistic man, who looked out for the unemployment, the oppressed worker, the unrepresented, and the new woman worker (All of Mosley's early endeavours had a disproportionate number of female members, attracting many former suffragettes) an evil individual who deserved to be physically assaulted and attacked, was it because he used a label for his organisation did that make him a just target
>>
>>666284
>So what made this pacifistic man
Give fascists an inch and they move into extreme hagiography
>>
>>666284
Because his organization actually posed a threat to the most wealthy and powerful elites.
>>
>>666257
You mean after the Republic decided to castrate the CNT in 1937?
>>
>>666305
Isn't that stereotyping though?

I could say; give a socialist a state and they move into Stalinism

Fascism isn't a unified ideology, in fact even less so than communism, due to one being founded on Marxist intentionalism, and the other splitting with the socialist movements due to a rejection of the total internationalism present in Marxist thought
>>
>>666149
There's a difference between appreciation a culture and accepting millions of people of a foreign culture for the sake of anti-racism.
>An didn't Franco used mercenary moros to fight in the SCW?
A means to an end.
>>
>>666064
Clearly the italian and german empires are in great shape right now
>>
>>665854
For some ungodly reason, the soviets didnt give a shit about opposing fascism before ww2. They cared much more about opposing other leftists outside their sphere of control.
>>
>>666257

>unaligned peasantry

You mean those Francoist priests that were drinking the blood of the people and supported Franco with money from the Catholic's Church property? What was innocent about them?
>>
>>666398
>For some ungodly reason
Well socialism in one country is necessarily ungodly.
>>
>>666387
Clearly they weren't destroyed by an outside force, right?

Plus, Italy joined the war because of the retarded pact it made with the Nazis.

Nazism was a mistake.
>>
>>666431

lol even Hitler hated Franco's guts and thought he was a psychopath. Imagine that!


>"Franco, of course, had very exaggerated ideas on the value of Spanish intervention.Nevertheless I believe that, in spite of the systematic sabotage perpetrated by his Jesuit brother- in-law, he would have agreed to make common cause with us on quite reasonable conditions - the promise of a little bit of France as a sop to his pride and a substantial slice of
Algeria as a real, material asset. But as Spain had really nothing tangible to contribute, I came to the conclusion that her direct intervention was not desirable. It is true that it
would have allowed us to occupy Gibraltar. On the other hand, Spain's entry into the war would certainly have added many kilometres to the Atlantic coast-line which we would have had to defend - from Saint Sebastian to Cadiz. Then there was the further possibility of a renewal of the civil war, fanned by the British. We might thus have found ourselves bound for better or for worse to a regime for which I have now, if possible, less sympathy than ever, a
regime of capitalist profiteers, puppets of the clerical gang! I shall never forgive Franco for not having reconciled the Spaniards once the civil war was over, for having ostracized the Phalangists, whom Spain has to thank for
such aid as we gave her, and for having treated like bandits former foes, who were very far from all being Reds. To put half a country beyond the pale of the law while a minority
of pillagers enrich themselves, with the blessing of the priesthood, at the expense of the rest is no solution at all. I am quite sure that very few of the so-called Reds in Spain
were really Communists. We were badly deceived, for, had I known the real state of affairs, I would never have allowed our aircraft to bombard and destroy a starving population and at the same time re-establish the Spanish
clergy in all their horrible privileges."

-Adolf Hitler, Last Political Testament
>>
>>666431
That outside force was caused by their ideology
>>
>>666417
No, not Francoist priests. Not even Franco aligned peasants, although there should at least be some effort to sway them (imagine). I mean the peasants that tried to remain neutral in a crazy fucking war full of war crimes and unknowable outcome. Notice the word "innocent" isn't used here.
>it's not okay for the Soviets to take over a revolutionary army hemorrhaging from ideological infighting
>but it's okay to massacre the local farmer because he's not swearing absolute allegiance to whichever splinter group is talking to him at the time
>M-M-M-MUH TANKIES
>>
>>665988
Fug man
>>
>>665900

>tfw the father of my grandfather was a falangist before the war but fought for the republic because his town was in republican zone and he was forcibly recruited

The poor man had a hard and weird life
>>
>>665854
>token help

AHHAHHHAAAAAAAHHAHAHA

Implying the Soviets weren't the only things keeping them afloat.
>>
>>666145
WHOA BRO THANKS FOR THE CHICKPEAS
>>
>>667331
Implying the Soviets didn't doom any meager chance they had.
>>
>>665994
>Československo
>republican propaganda

Also, is any of you fascists based enough to have a whole mountain named after you like

WALTER
A
L
T
E
R
>>
>>665854
Read what actually happened between the revolutionary forces during the civil war. Even better, read what happened to man pic related. Commies are backstabbing bastards, that's what happened.
>>
>>668176
The crushing of Kronstadt was more significant honestly.
>>
>>668180
yeah that too.
>>
>>665854
>Why did the Soviet Union only offer token help to Loyalist forces in the Spanish Civil War?
he only viewed hardcore commies and borderline stalinists as his friends

>Why was the response of the Soviets so different to that of the Nazi's?
spain bordered france

>Why were the democratic governments so passive?
the noninterference meme, individual politicians didn't want to risk embarressment
>>
>>667352
The Soviets were the ONLY chance they had

What, do you think they could've won again the Nationalists, Germany AND Italy?

No, they needed a powerful leader (even if blackmail was needed) and none of the local parties had the strength to form a cohesive alliance.
>>
>>668176
Stomping out counter revolutionary bourgeoise forces is never back stabbing.
>>
File: 1443660372652.png (85 KB, 625x626) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1443660372652.png
85 KB, 625x626
>>668226
>machnovists, cnt-fai, cronstand sailors
>bourgeoise forces
>>
>>668190
embarrassment* rather

>>668226
Stalin's regime and other hardline communists were exploitative, you had few options for work and education unless you had connections, if you didn't work you lived in poverty, a similar set up seen elsewhere in the world. If anything the fruitier anarchists were the ones genuinely attempting to get away from this.
>>
>>666153
> Uranium mines
Well, now we know where you got your retard genes from.
>>
>>665854
First and foremost, Soviets were neck deep in political reforms (constitution). It was the biggest political crisis in the history of USSR (eventually culminated into Purges). Basically, making any sudden political movements was equivalent to volunteering to stand in front of firing squad. So the initiative was mostly muted.

Second problem was Trotsky. Soviet politicans knew of his major influence in Spain and wanted to avoid aiding his allies. It was also kinda dangerous to suggest sending help to suspected trotskists in the middle of Purges against trotskist conspiracy.

Finally, USSR was preparing for the coming war and was undergoing industrialization. In 1936 Soviet Union was hardly the major player. It still required as much cooperation with the West as possible, both for industrial goods and for postponing the beginning of war.

Essentially, Spain was deemed not important enough to start WW2 prematurely and face almost certain defeat by allied Europe.


>>666398
Surprise! Soviets didn't really care if they got murdered by god-loving Allies or Nazi Germans. Until Soviets managed to make Allies fight against Nazies, they didn't really see any difference between either of them.
>>
>>668541
Hungary.
>>
File: wat.jpg (60 KB, 604x578) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
wat.jpg
60 KB, 604x578
>>668361
I like how you people make outrageous statements and then demand impeccable evidence, if those statements are challenged in any way.
Thread replies: 60
Thread images: 12
Thread DB ID: 516354



[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at [email protected] with the post's information.