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Underrated weapons cultures.
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

Thread replies: 71
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What, in your opinion, are some of the world's most underrated weapons cultures? Let's keep it premodern least we stumble into /k/ territory.

I mean like designs you rarely get to see in media depictions. Like Western/Samurai Faggotry dominates those thoroughly with the pdd Chinese/Middle Eastern weapons at the side.

Top of my head i can think of Southeast Asia. Specially those island SEAsians.
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>>665396
1700's Swordsmanship.

No seriously, you watch pirate movies-especially old ones- and they fight in classical fencing with smallswords/rapiers.

While in reality, most swords used by plebs were these short stubby cutlasses, dirks, and infantry swords that were brutal in the cutting department.

Pirates of teh Carribean however is interesting as the movie used accurate short swords instead of rapierfaggotry.
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>>665396
Tibetan weapons. Provided they *were* copies of Chinese weapons, Tibetan Aesthetic for scabbards, guards, hilts gave them a distinct Ayy Lmao feel.
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>>665413
Sailors couldn't wield a sword for shit, which is why most of them boarded with tools
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Thats a really bad pic of keris desu, the decoration look autistic, and the curve dont go way to the edge. Is this malay or indonesian style keris?

Heres my collection btw
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>>665433
What's the deal with Chinese swords not really having crossguards? How did they avoid having an opponent's weapon slide down their blade and strike their hand/wrist when they parried?
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>>665643
>how did they avoid having an opponents weapon slide down their blade

Skill, something westerners never heard of
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>>665643
For effective kungfu moves duh
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>>665643
The sword was usually considered as a side arm (the character for sword 'Dao' also means 'at your side') though if they used it they'd likely have a shield. Kung Fu doesn't encourage the subject to parry however which is similar to other asian martial arts in which parrying was undesirable.
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What does /his/ think of my seax knife?
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>>666121
Over-styled. I know the fashion is to wear them large but you'll need a pairing knife to go with it.
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>>666141
What would you recommend?
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>>666150
Simple. Form follows function. Why carry a large knife, simply because it is fashion to wear a large knife to the table where swords are banned?

Given that you're actually a modern you actually want a simple reliable rifle in a standard military calibre. Go with the calibre and rifle that your country uses at war, and don't trick it out.

If you're roleplaying being a Saxon then fucking stop it, a seax isn't a sword: it is a fashion accessory and they used actual swords in combat.
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India has weapons straight out of a fantasy RPG
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>>666175
I have a Seax because it's fun. I also own an AR-15 (stag arms) and a 1911 that my father passed down to me.

I have the Seax because it's enjoyable to have, I have a Buck 119 for actual use.
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>>666181
>indian weapons
if i remember correctly, they had some seriously cool shit
i remember hearing about metal discs you could either throw or use as a melee weapon, and long thin pieces of metal that were essentially metal whips
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>>666197
Having a seax is like carrying a pistol. It is a toy designed to kill people. Saxons, when not murdering each other at dinner, used actual weapons in units.

And that it is so over decorated is just, well, "tacticool."
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>>666225
Well yeah, but it's not decorative wartime things didn't exist, Sutton Hoo anyone?
They made plenty of this stuff.
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>>666240
But of course, you're free to buy whatever tacticool shit you like, I just want you to know that your seax is the equivalent of an AR-15 pistol with red dot scope, laser and bullet button.
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>>666259
Or like anything dug out of an Anglo-Saxon burial ship.
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>Simple. Form follows function
Jesus christ I want the retards to leave
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>>666294
>I have 19th century bourgeois tastes
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>>666203
Chakrams were a fucking joke though
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>>666406

Chakrams could easily bisect a man armored in full plate if thrown by a trained user.
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>>666422
What if they were thrown by Xena?
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Palaeolithic master race reporting
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>>666181
>India has weapons straight out of a fantasy RPG

and most of them weren't really practical
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>>667020

The katar was incredibly useful as a sidearm, letting the wielder punch through heavily armored opponents and successfully exploit gaps in armor as well.
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>>666360
>britbong detected

Let's see your pencil permit m8 or I'm reporting you as a terrorist.
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>>665436
takes time to get gud, time enough for that bullet to find you.
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>>666360
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>>665396

For how much trouble the Dacian falx gave the Romans, it sure doesn't get a lot of attention in media or entertainment. Sure it's a one-trick pony and forward curving weapons are generally far less versatile than backwards curving or straight blades but it's still really neat. It had a specific job and it did it well for the time.

Same goes for Billhooks.
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The Model 1816 French artillery short sword. Also known as the cabbage-cutter.
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While not necessarily weapons, the Handpavese and the Hussar's targe are good reminders that shields were used well into the Renaissance, even if their recorded application was limited to treatises and specialized cavalry, the meme of 'people stopped using shields at year x' should really die.

Plus they're both just so fucking beautiful. I adore the shapes, the way the Hussar's targe curves around defensively with a lick at the top, and the hemicylindrical section that naturally conforms to the wearer's arm.
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>>667501
Carbines or even sharpened entrenchment tools would be more useful.
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>>667547
Cuirasses were fucking useless too, but you know what they both have in common? They look badass.
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>>667528
>the meme of 'people stopped using shields at year x' should really die
I don't think it's a meme, since the combination of late medieval plate armour with high medieval shields is yet fairly common in popular imagery. Just look at games like Dark Souls for example.
Factually, people still used shields, but they usually had very special purposes. Paveses, targes, bucklers, etc. rather than the "general purpose" type shields of earlier periods.
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>>667551
There's nothing more badass looking than a carbine and a sharpened entrenchment tool. My grognard fantasies > your grognard fantasies.
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>>667593
Ever seen riot police?
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>>665643
...they did. Jian had crossguards. Dao used too but they adopted (or invented?) the Japanese Disc-guard

Most minimal guard Jian you see nowadays are from the Qing Dynasty due to Jian being effectively civilian rapiers.

Which leads us tooooo
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>>667716
>How did they avoid having an opponent's weapon slide down their blade and strike their hand/wrist when they parried?

2 means
1) Shield
2) Bracers.

Pic related is a common Chinese soldier from 900's-1300's AD. Chinese often only armor the torso/upper leg of folks, and some units were entirely unarmored like the so called "targeteers" (i.e. Skirmishers, light infantry), who relied on shields, but those cunts were never without armored bracers
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Closest thing irl to "folded 1000 times" type shit.
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>>665436
>boarded with tools

Was it actual policy for most navies then to just let sailors grab whatever for deck combat? Seems silly. What if there's nothing left worth grabbing from the tool box?
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>>665605
It says moro so it's philipino. Only in the philipines you can find a people so cucked that they accept to be called moors despite not being moors.
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>>669378
One hit weapon and useless against metal.
>made stick, put rock on it.
>laughingconquistadores.jpg
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>>667716
>>667730
What is the thing about Chinese mountain pattern scale armor? Looks like a good idea.
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>>669503
>Cuck
Far from it.

"Moro" is actually a point of pride by Muslim Filipinos.
>Muslim Flips: Why the hell do you call us that?
>Spics: Because you're Moros. Man. Muslims.
>Muslims: Muslims. Good, don't ever identify us with those animist cucks that willingly sucked your dick.

Besides, they do have their own names, like Maranao, Maguindanao, Tausgug, Suluk and whatnot. Moro is the collective term of Filipino Muslims unconquered by Spain.
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>>669546
Its pretty logical m8.
>Lamellar: scales just fall on top of each other.
>Shit sucks especially if you get stabbed from an upward angle.
>What if there was a lamellar armor where the scales are interwoven?
China spent a longass time with Lamellar to tweak its design.
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>>667501
tfw I was gifted one of these like 6 years ago
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>>666259
They were also a symbol of status, like the person you're arguing with is trying to say. Archaeological evidence suggests that English kings carried and fought with what would amount to a fortune's worth of "tacticool" equipment as a show of prestige and influence -- the quality and artistry of their equipment proves that they could pay a larger and more competent war-band.

There is a marked difference in having a weapon for practical purposes and having one because you appreciate the historical symbolism. Having a sword, dagger or dirk as a primary weapon in general is not a wise decision in battle unless you had the prestige to afford one and train with it.

Ornate swords don't really hold the same status as an over-dressed AR-15 because well-made swords held an inherent symbolism and, in some cases, magical connotations. Contrast this with user-friendly and affordable AR-15's.
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>>669378
Yeah, it was sharp, but the blades were brittle and, from the looks of it, too small to ensure a timely kill from laceration most of the time. The weight and shape of it makes it useful as a club when the blades break or become dislodged, which I can get behind. In my opinion, it's a good attempt at a sword-like weapon without metallurgy, but a poor example of a sword-like weapon in general.

There's a reason why we don't use glass knives very often.
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>>669804
I'll take back the thing about the timely kill, primary sources say they were quite capable of deep lacerations. As a stone blade, they seem quite formidable. Still, regardless of how much sharper glass can be in comparison to metal blades, I don't see it holding up well against a people who can forge metal artfully, and I think there is evidence of this.
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The wound this knife makes is extremely difficult to close. Victims bleed out in mere minutes.
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>>669902
I don't know if triangular trusting blades are overrated, but I can definitely get behind the idea that they're incredibly useful as tools for killing people. The trench knife with spiked knuckle handle guards come to mind.
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>>666430
Thumbnail looks like a but plug
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>>669867
>>669524
Surprisingly enough there are some first hand accounts that obsidian tipped spears could pierce the steel breastplates and only the cotton padding underneath stopped it from going deeper, but yeah, it's obviously not going to do well against metal most of the time.

But, when nobody else on your entire landmass 2 continents big has metal armor or really any type of widespread utilitarian minded metalworking, that's a non factor. It's a pretty interesting example of how circumstances drive development, really: The aztec's had cities that were actually larger then anything in europe, and population wise and agriculturally they were totally on par, but they never bothered to just develop much metal tools or weapons because they didn't need it. It's not like they couldn't, either, obviously they worked with gold and silver for garments, and they had bronze axes, but there was just never a need to supplant it or devolp it further.

Also, in contrast, Europe was pretty much in a constant state of war for thousands of years. While obviously the Americas weren't war free, there was much less constant warring due to a variety of reasons: by the time the Spanish came over, the aztecs had the region locked down so much that they and their tributaries actually had to arrange battles just so they had war prisoners to sacrifice, look up the flower wars.

Also, obsidian, while obviously nowhere near as durable as steel, isn't ass brittle as say, normal glassware when it's made right: you can look up videos on youtube of even totally inaccurate amateur replicas and you'll note the obsidian razors suffer no visible damage even after cleany cutting through whole chickens:and cracking the tables they are placed on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edHxcPz3Vm8

>As a stone blade, they seem quite formidable.
Well, it's not just a blade, there's the huge club the blades are stuck on: it did a ton of blunt trauma too. It smashed bones as much as it cut through them.
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>>667228
At least the elves used them to slash orcs in a unique way.
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>>666259
> calling a Seax tacticool

Doesn't really look like it would be an unusable weapon m80
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>>667153
IS THIS REAL?!
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>>671958
>Also, obsidian, while obviously nowhere near as durable as steel, isn't ass brittle as say, normal glassware when it's made right: you can look up videos on youtube of even totally inaccurate amateur replicas and you'll note the obsidian razors suffer no visible damage even after cleany cutting through whole chickens:and cracking the tables they are placed on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edHxcPz3Vm8 [Embed]

...I'd still prefer Toledo steel.
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Why did the scimitar become synonymous with pirates? Isn't it an Muslim sword?
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>>672622
Scimitar is a blanket Anglo/western term for "Curved Eastern swords we do not understand."

It covered shit like lighter, one-handed Turkish Sabres, to heavy, two handed Indian Tulwar types, and even Chinese/Japanese single edged swords were called "Scimitar" by 1600's Englishmen.

Pirates are more commonly associated with cutlasses, which are short, stubby sabers. Unless you're talking about Barbary Corsairs.
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>>665873
>the character for sword 'Dao' also means 'at your side'

No it fucking doesnt. Dao is just a single edged blade, with the closest English word being knife. Vegetable knives are called caidao (vegetable/leaf knife). Single edged blades used as weapon are either called dadao (large knife) or just dao. Granted, the west usually refer to weaponized dao as swords or blades, but theyre all dao or knife in Chinese.

Jian refer specifically to tools with two cutting edges so Chinese being the modular language it is, you technically could say caijian, but it would't be referring to anything used in reality to my knowledge. I think it would be rather cool to have a caijian regardless of its practicality.
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>>669716
Post it.
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Nothing like putting a spear point at the end of your fist
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>>672043
Is that Māori?
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>>669902

If you're captured as a prisoner whilst carrying a knife like this you would be executed.
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>>673305
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>>666121
>my
You wish!
Thread replies: 71
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