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ITT: Try to convert me to believe whatever...
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ITT: Try to convert me to believe whatever your religious beliefs are

Convince me that I should believe what you believe in terms of spirituality, whatever that might be
I'm curious to hear genuine appeals from multiple points of view.
Consider your audience open minded and non-judgmental, not just to you, but other perspectives as well.
>>
Christ is LORD
The Church is TRUTH
His is THE WORD

All you need to hear, the rest is up to you.
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>>644992

Which church, specifically? And why? Just Christianity in general, or Catholicism? If the latter, which branch of Catholicism, and why is that one better than the others?
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>>644951
You don't need to
but pay in mind that religion is an ideology and thoses are shortcuts your mind. those shortcut can lead you further or they can lead you nowhere.
>If you assume than ecology wothout facts (ie negating the consequences of wind based enrgies such as rare earth el and lithium) is green washing
>If you admits that manicheism is cancer and there is no good nor bad people only personnal goals vs morality and sanity ok
>If you can respect other belief without accepting their abuses

otherwise you are just a pseudo smarter version of >>644992

t; born from a jewish dad and a muslim mom, currently eating bacon
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Ancentor worship like true civilized man
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>>644951
Jesus is all you need
Read the bible repent and you'll see the truth
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>>645003

Like I said the rest is up to you, accept CHRIST into your heart, and avoid the FIRES.

Jesus is LORD, he does not discern SECTS he only recognises SUBMISSION to the LORD.
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I hope you find happiness wherever you choose OP.
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>>645014
Is the truth that Christians were so desperate for validity that they tailored their messiah around jewish myths to gain it?
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>>644951
Clip your pee-pee
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Clip your pee-pee and grow out your sides-burns really long.
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>>644951
I believe that the only remotely honest position is agnosticism. However I am also personally biased against the idea of deities, since they don't make sense to me. You will mostly get Christian responses, hardly a buffet of viewpoints. I'm not sure what else you expected.

Though, I guess just convert to Christianity, they tend to be good people anyways
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>>644951
I can't really do that.
With a truly open mind and life experience you'll find your own path to enlightenment eventually.
>>
I was raised as a conservative Baptist. This means that the Bible holds the only authority. We reject the idea of a pope. You can pray directly to God, no need to confess sins to anyone. Since about the age of 18 when I started questioning everything I started to explore other world religions. I have studied Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, and to a lesser extent, Islam, Sikhism, Asatru, Zoroastrianism. All the world religions have their similarities. An almost universal rule is treat others as you would like to be treated. Most religions state that love and peace are the greatest thing offered in this world. I have basically settled on a modified version of Deism. I believe a creative force that is unmanifested created the universe. I do not believe that he meddles in human affairs. My beliefs are not strictly Deist because I also believe that you can experience this Force or Creator through meditation. Because ultimately everything is connected. But my views may change upon further study and understanding. Christianity will always be dear to me as I was raised on it. It's a highly corrupt and misunderstood religion. Catholicism being the most corrupt of them all. If you are interested in Christianity the only way to go about it in my opinion is to read the Bible with an open mind and contemplate on the words. If it doesn't ring true to your inner being then move on wards on your spiritual path. You may find yourself coming back to it, or think it's nonsense. Hope I may have helped.
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>>645070
>treat others as you would like to be treated
You didn't study Judaism very much, did you?
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>>645080
I said "almost" universal rule.
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>>645080
heh
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My view is basically what >>645070 said.

Simply given the infinite complexity of the universe it'd be naive to say that there isn't some kind of creative force/being. But I don't think he/she/they really care about what we do, and is basically remote. Do unto others as you would do to yourself is just an esoteric way of saying "Don't be an asshole", which should be pretty much be a basic rule of ethics. Morphing that into some kind of organized religion is really just trying to justify some kind of shitty existence/behavior/circumstance.
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>>645130
>Simply given the infinite complexity of the universe it'd be naive to say that there isn't some kind of creative forge
I don't get this logic. How does complexity beyond ease of understanding necessitate intention. I just don't understand. This concerns me because I think this is supposed to be intuitive to me.
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>>644951
let first analyze what is seen as the opposite of religion: science and the gain of knowledge about reality. Does this work ? No.
The rationalists of any rationalism hate this situation, since they cling, out of despair before their sterility, to their fantasies of objectivity, reality (more or less floating around, but we cannot see it!), truth, universality, even though, for millenia, they have been failing to show us a knowledge that is not personal.


**Little introduction. Rationality through the notion of causation.**

How to gain knowledge ? what is worthy of being called a knowledge ?
Let's take the word ''causation'' to illustrate the quest: can causation be otherwise than a choice to tack the word ''causation'' onto to events ? why the perpetual quest of the necessity ?

Let's begin with the formalization of the various reasonings : the formal languages are just a superior level of abstraction of the abstractions of the natural languages, with some implicit fantasy of being more communicable than the natural ones.

we have dozens of and dozens of formal languages and the particular goals of the people formalizing languages is really the formalization of ''reasonings'' which means the inferences [=going from one sentence to another one].

we have plenty of method of reasonings, the most famous is the deductive reasoning, a bit less formalized is the inductive reasoning. the other reasoning are not trendy enough to be stated here. Since the deduction is trendy, the deduction has been formalized by various people, each people formalizing what they think is ''deduction''.
Today, we have dozens of deductive formalized languages, and so far nobody on earth knows what causation is, what necessity is, what sufficiency/contingency is, outside of the notion of the various formalized logical deductions.
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>>645141


the question that the rationalists fail to see is not ''what is causation'', but ''why do you talk about causation ? why do you get up in the morning , invent the word ''causation'', take it so seriously, having faith so much in it, that you try day after day to know what it is and you miserably fail to have result beyond some fantasized formalizations ?


**Let's look at the side of sciences.**

The physicists do not know what causation is. The physicist talks about causality, which is the causation in time. The causality is saying ''the cause precedes in time the effect'', whereas causation is ''the cause causes the effect''. The problem is that the physicist have no idea what time is (beyond its formalization as the real line, or some other abstractions generating the real line) and even less causation.
It is choice to tack the word ''causation'' onto to events. ''causation'' is a perspective: a choice to call an event ''cause'' of some other event called ''effect''; the people who choose to have faith in causation have the task to say what causes lead to what effects. and they demand to be paid for this; and they say that if we do not share the faith in their ''causation'', we are misguided.


**why the failure of rationalism ?**

Because physicists have no idea what they are doing, at least since the day when the moderns said ''hey I no longer need God as an hypothesis, math explains the world, epic win''. Then the classical liberals fantasized a social progress [=acceptation of their doctrine (the human rights) to other nations] caused by the ''progress of science''. Of course, nobody on earth knows what social progress is, and even less what is a progress in science.
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>>645144

So the physicists take the causation to be the logical entailment of ''well formed formulas'', because they do not know better. It means that causation is ''the various rules of inferences'' in whatever deductive logic the physicists choose to work. And there remains, for the physicists, the faith that, indeed, ''mathematics describe the world'', like our formula of a black hole exists because black holes totally exist somewhere in space, and black holes totally exist somewhere, because we derived a formula that we, good rationalists, call 'the mathematical definition of a black hole''.[In fact, the experimental physicist observes, at best, the effects of a black hole on its environment].
Since physicists and other rationalists have no justification of their claims, they choose the path of the (intellectual) terrorism in claiming that ''only the religious sheep and the degenerate empiricists, skeptics, relativists, solipsists do not agree with us; plus science give us rockets and cars and computers... see how science is good ! less pains and better pleasures for everyone, thanks to us, the good rationalists ! Science totally works guys, we are spot on defiling empiricism with our rationalism, trust us !''.


The physicists fail to see this situation, because they do not learn math (and they admit that they do not care about the situation, leaving these question to the ''philosophers''). mathematicians fail to see this situation because they do not learn logics (and they do not care). Being the most decent of the three, the logicians do not care much about ''connecting back their formalizations onto the world''...
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>>645145

**what happens in the side of the philosophy of science ?**


The philosophers of science say that ''okay guys, our various reasonings and logics are kind of rubbish, totally manufactured by us, but we have no idea on how to spend our day [nor on how to justify our demand of our monthly salary... thanks to the moderns who managed to get paid, by the people, in order to spout models after models, speculations after speculations] so we might has well take logic seriously and say that logic describes the world.
And, for many, it is the classical logic which is the best logic to talk about ''truth'' [classical logic is the typical formalization of what a few people think how truth behaves].

Then what ? all of this started because a few people got up in the morning on wanted ''to know''. they have faith in gaining knowledge ''in doing things in the world'' : ''if I do that, these things happen and it matters so much that it is worthy of being called *knowledge*''. then you have the various formalizations of their perspectives on how the world behaves and everybody fights in defending his formalizations.


**Agitation versus stillness**

What these people fail to grasp is that knowledge is not gotten from exiting things in the world, from doing things, but in doing the exact opposite: knowledge is gained in ''doing nothing'', to speak casually.
Existing things leads to sterility because any choice of calling its output a ''result'' depends on space and time.
the physicists know this limitation of induction, and the first thing that they say is that ''any physical equation must be, in casual language, ''independent of time and space [which means, behave well under the symmetry group of whatever formalization of spacetime they choose to work in]''.
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>>645148
Of course, this situation reveals the total lack of reflection of the physics to escape space and time. he admits thus that he cannot think without space and time.
And since he despises his sterility, he falls back to the oldest trick, which is *the objectification of the claim*, turning the claim into a **necessity** (to make it less personal, to try to avoid people understand that this claim remains a personal choice).
He claims thus ''it is necessary to think in terms of space and time, even if I have no idea what time and space are ! if you refuse what I say, you are doing things wrong !''.

This excitation ''to gain knowledge'' is the best illustrated by the [linear] perturbation of the mathematical entity called the ''action'' by the physicists: if you have an action and perturbs it, you gain the ''laws of motions'' of your system.
This is what the physicist believes, since he is a good rationalist: they choose to take the induction seriously, which leads to further abstractions, tack on those a few deductive claims from the inductive claims, then their task is to order those deductive abstractions, in terms of utility [=to describe things whic means to predict things, they say].
Of course, the essence of any inductive claim is the choice, by their proponents, to claim that ''this results hold (trust us!)'' until... the same proponents chooses to claim ''this same results no longer hold''. In one word, the Induction works until it no longer works. Is this situation worthy of being called knowledge ?
The rationalists and their wishes to ''predict events'' live in the future, or, rather, in the past in order to hope for a better future.
Only those rationalists fail to see their stance as pure nihilism.
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>>645149


Now, how to gain knowledge and not a lamentable result like the rationalists have been attaining ? by contemplation like good empiricists, instead of manipulation like good rationalists.
The strange thing is that, from the point of view of these nihilisits, the contemplation begins not by an epistemological wish, but by the ''good life''.

We gain knowledge as soon as we leave induction, which means as soon as we leave any rationalism, we leave some faith in speculations, fantasies; which means that we remain empiricist, but not a polluted version of empiricism like the rationalists have been doing for centuries, if not more.


So we accept that there is no reason to excite things in order to gain knowledge. we are far more interested in the question ''why do bother going into the world and why do I seek knowledge ?'', rather than ''what happens if I excite things and I pray very hard for some other unknown people being able to repeat the experiment ?''.
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>>645150

**Happiness**

The process is thus : we want to be happy, we notice that we are not, we wonder why, we notice that it is because mundane hedonism [=taking seriously our desires/ideas/self/what we feel] is poorly effective to be happy [we must work hard to get riches, then we must keep our riches, then we get a bit of pleasures from them, then they disappears (since we spend them), so we work hard anew to get new riches. Even worse, there is, sooner or later, a lassitude towards the fruits of our hard work (everybody in relationship knows this). Why do we get bored from all the entertainment we buy thanks to we hard work ??], we notice that everybody around us does the same and are not really happy. this mundane life is full of woes....
Plus we have faith that we will die, because we look around and see hundreds of people being miserable perishable pricks like us. people are us and we are people.
=> we abdicate before the lack of results from hedonism, we want to leave this lack of relevance forever (and we know how to).
we know thus that it is not worth it to go into the same hedonistic quest day after day, week after week, up to year after year; that we are not different, nor better than others in our misery.

It clicks. we understand that there is no point to continue to envy; once we understand this, we want to do the contrary of what we have done so far in our pathetic existence : do the contrary of being agitated.
we want to be still, even though we are not so still (otherwise we would be happy), yet we have no doubt about this new perspective on life [we clearly see that other hedonists are sad just as we were before, and we know why].
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>>644951
You should do and believe whatever you feel is right and just. The only thing I would stress is that you should never presume an afterlife. There will be no second chance at life, so don't ever think you'll get one.
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>>645151
**Stillness**

What happens when you do not move, when there is nothing to do, when boredom happens ?
First we try to do not move, physically, but we notice that we fail. as soon as we try to stop moving, we dwell in the fantasies of our mind, we move physically, as if we despise being still. This hate of being still is interesting...
Why do we hate being still, to the point of doing the opposite most of the day, that is to say, exciting things all day long and when facing the sterility of excitations, we try to justify our behavior thanks to the manufacture of a faith in rationalization-objectification, so that ''we gain knowledge when things are excited '' ?

We try anew to be still. We try to keep our consciousness [=the thing which knows] [not mind!] on the object whereof we are conscious, as still as possible : we no longer dwell in the speculations of our mind, we try to be still towards our 5 other senses.
We stop moving physically: we sit and do not move, we lay down and do not move, we stand-up and do not move. Our body does not move.
when our body no longer moves, the sense of touch disappears, just like when we ''smell nothing'', when there is a neutral odor, just like when ''we hear nothing'', when there is less noise than regularly. Our body disappears, to better leave our consciousness (and the object whereof we are conscious).
[as an aside, consciousness alone does not exists, feelings does not exists, reality alone does not exist: you have these three things always tied with one another, and if you suppress one, you suppress the other two]
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>>645154

**breath**

Then we notice that the breath keeps moving. but at least the movement repeats itself: the breath moves in cycles; the small cycles in which we can decompose the breath is in-breath, out-breath.
The new question becomes: how can we be still towards the breath, since the breath moves in cycles? Well, to be still towards an do object which moves, we must move with the object. we will thus be still with respect to this object, no matter what movement of this object.

to be still towards the breath means that :
-when we breath out, we know that we breath out, WHEN we breath out [not an instant before, not an instant after]
-when we breath in, we know that we breath in, WHEN we breath in [not an instant before, not an instant after]

[there can be other things moving in cycle, typically the heart beat, but it is faint and far to speedy for most people to be conscious when heart beats happen. the breath is what is in the foreground, therefore, the breath is what matters]

there it is: we are still towards the breath, we are still towards the other senses which disappears, since THINGS DISAPPEARS when we keep being conscious of them and nothing happens.
Once your senses disappear, we are conscious of ''our consciousness'', and things happen: the jahnas arrive !
The method to study the consciousness, by the consciousness itself, is to get rid of as many displeasure as possible. this is what the buddhists do in their meditation. **the point is that there is no longer a distinction between epistemology, ontology, ethics and happiness.**
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>>645141
>>645144
>>645145
>>645148
>>645149
>>645150

If you can't rationalise your point succinctly don't bother.
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>>644951
All educated men should worship the Sun.

Think about it: the Sun:
-is actually real
-gives you life
-provides all of your food (photosynthesis), i.e. it gives you your daily bread
-is the source of all beauty (photons from the sun reflect from objects into your eyes, thus allowing you to perceive beauty)
-is the source of your body itself (all of the atoms in your body were forged in the Sun)
-you need the sun, it it's absence you will quickly grow sick and die
-it punishes those who disrespect it (skin cancer) and rewards those who praise it correctly (sun tan)
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>>645155

The jhanas are hedonism of the consciousness, while ordinary hedonism is materialistic, of the body; but even the jhanas are hard to get and their effects disappear, once we are no longer in them, sooner or later ! just like with mundane hedonism ! another deception... which leads you to know that, sooner or later, you will get rid of those jhanic fruits...

Thanks to the jhanas you study the consciousness itself and see before your eyes what you knew since the day it clicked: that your consciousness is not as permanent, nor as personal as you expected before leaving your pathetic hedonism, just as you understand that the body, the mind, the emotions, the tastes, the ideas are not you and and that the attachment to them prevent you from being happy.

Why this method leads to result worthy of being called ''knowledge'' ? because the results:
-transform us
-transform us without reversibility [you cannot go back to a previous state, the good news is that these states make us happier than before] (and this is the whole point of the endeavor : to escape the impermanence which is the weakness of induction)


Happiness is thus the destruction of the avidity towards pleasures, the destruction of the aversion towards pains, the destruction of the ignorance of the sterility of hedonism of the body and hedonism of the consciousness.

What replaces the things destroyed ? equanimity, benevolence, charity, certainty that you are no longer an hedonist, certainty that you are happy and that nothing remains to be done in this life.
The results which are the certainty in this perspective of being still, is called ''stream-entry'' by the buddhists.
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>>645158
PRAISE
R
A
I
S
E
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>>645158
Absolutely right.
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>>645140
An in depth observation of the Earth and Nature, of the beauty and complexity of life, and what gets most people, the galaxies and universe leads most people to conclude there has to be a creator. The basic argument is none of this could have come about simply by chance. Everything is too vast and complex. Furthermore, there is the first cause argument. Basically, what caused the big bang/the universe to manifest.
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>>645167
The existence of God is completely irrelevant. It doesn't tell us anything about morality, meaning, life or death. You have to inject your own ideology to create a religion.
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>>645167
I still don't get it sorry. It just doesn't make sense. I can perfectly envision the universe propogating by so-called chance. I don't understand why some divine intent has to enter the equation at all. And even taking the first cause argument into consideration, I don't understand the logic that something intentionally did it.
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>>645158
Huh.
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>>645183
I guess it's simply a different viewpoint? The universe as we know it may have arisen from chance. I can see that, but it seems very unlikely to me. The first cause argument is what intrigues me the most. Assuming the big bang happened (I don't believe so), what caused the big bang? How did the universe come into existence?
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>>645167
I feel like your "could not have been created by chance" is more of an "I don't want to believe it was created by chance." That's fine too, you just have to accept that it's an entirely fee-fees-dependent argument, which doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.
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>>644951

Just pick the one with the best stories.
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>>645197
>(I don't believe so)
U wot
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>>645167
>The basic argument is none of this could have come about simply by chance. Everything is too vast and complex.
This argument is retarded beyond belief (hah).
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>>645213
There is no proof of the big bang. It's a theory.

>>645219
How so?
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>>644951
doesn't work like that.
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>>645249
>How so?
It has literally no logical or rational basis.
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>>645249
It's a theory formed from the evidence that we have. Do you think it came from thin air?
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>>645249
>I don't know what theory actually means but I still use that as an argument
Good job.
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>>645249
1. Look up what a scientific theory is. It is significantly different from the common usage of the word "Theory".

2.1. Complex structures can derive from simple interactions.
2.2. If I were to flip a coin a large number of times then that particular result would be very unlikely (0.5^n where n is the number of coin tosses), however remarking on this after the fact is stupid since any result of this coin would be equally likely, assuming both sides have a 50% chance and previous results do not influence later results.
2.3. Law of large numbers. The universe is a very large sample size so unlikely events have a decent chance of happening somewhere.


>Autism formating provided by my inability to care
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>>644951
My belief is that any individual has the duty to protect and assist those close to him, to work towards gaining strength in order to better be able to do so, to help others work in this same way, and that the ultimate reward for this is an altogether stronger, healthier community, family and/or society, and a happy individual.

Add details of tradition, culture, personality and/or practicality to taste.

Personally I highly appreciate what my ancestor did for me, how their hard work made my life easier, safer and happier, and I see it as my duty to do the same for those who come after me.

Needless to say, this isn't exactly an organised religion...
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>>644951
Jesuit-fag here. We believe in Jesus, AND provide facts and research towards scientific studies. Join now, and get a sick ass robe
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>>645417
I was an archivist for the Jesuits for a little bit.
They were pretty based.
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Done.

You're saved.
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Dear OP, would you like an everlasting reward or an everlasting punishment ? it all depends on how you worship god, will you make partners with him or will he be the only entity worshipped by you ? will you sacrifice your ego and submit to this entity and worship it with all your senses ? inside and outside ? will you remember him in times of need and in times of no need ? will you thank him for all the situations whether you're sick and about to die, poor and malnourished like job ? and rich and strong like solomon ? do you promise to do your best in doing all five prayers everyday and fast from dawn till dusk in the holy month and help the poor as much as you can ? or will you cheat members of your society and overprice your goods for profit ? will you charge interest and usury ? will you alter the word of god to serve your needs ? will you speak ill of people behind their backs and slander them ? will you break your promises ? will you stick your knows in places it doesn't belong ?

Make peace with god and submit yourself/Make war with god.
protip:god's enemies always loose.
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>>645496
Stories?
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>>644951
It is impossible to know for sure whether or not there is an all-powerful deity in the deist sense of a deity, however there is no evidence for such a deity therefore there is no cause to believe in it. The same can be said of various major religions that propose a theistic god, each one with it's own internal inconsistencies. These theistic claims are much grander (defying common sense in many circumstances and some claims are made that are directly contradicted by science) but still have no evidence to support them so it doesn't really make much sense to believe in something like that either. The same logic applies to after-life, reincarnation and similar elements of spirituality; there is no evidence for it, so there is no reason to believe it. They are superstitions.
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>>645817
it is possible if you stop being a skeptic and adopt others ideas because you think they're cool.
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One word: Dragons. The veneration of dragons is the veneration of strength, will, and freedom; not just political or existential freedom, but freedom from doubt, self-hatred, and misery. Freedom from gods. We all face oblivion eventually, but while we live should we not at least yearn for what is good?
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>>644951
my religion is that you have to rape children for moral principles and dat u must kick a woman 2 times per weekz
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>>645895

Can it be 1 time a week if she's pregnant?
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>>644951
That pic lacks Zoroastrism.
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>>644951
>try to change my metaphysical worldview
>in a single thread on 4chan
>>
I'm a kabbalist Jew. I have lots of money and I waste time learning about occult shit. Nearly all my holidays are dedicated to getting drunk and gift giving with the exception of Yom Kippur which is still pretty much just about eating.
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>>645158
also much like god in abrahamic religions, you can't actually perceive it in its full form or else you would be blinded and possibly melt
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>>644951
Don't let people tell you that spirituality requires you to believe in magic or be anything than perfectly rational.
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>>646025
I'm just glad you found a way to feel superior to everyone in this thread.
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i'm agnostic
every religious group provides arguments, some of them seem to be valid, some don't
and at the same time universe etc seems to be too complex to be created on its own
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>>647101
Nah it really is retarded to expect getting converted to whole different way of experiencing life through formal argumentation or a couple buzzwords. Spirituality isn't a fucking political view you dip, it's a way of being
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>>647101
Nah, man, I just think the idea of the thread is stupid. People do LOTS OF WORK to argue for their complete worldview and yet people want to have it both explained and convinced to them here?
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>>644951

I would, but this is a SFW board.
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>>646182
I'd completely agree with your post but your image filename gets me.

Spirituality without religion makes little to no sense. Does this mean to say "Spirituality without organized religion"? All you're doing is establishing your own worldview and a way of life based on it. That is to say, you make your own religion, even if you aren't consistent about it. Spirituality without religion is oxymoronic.

>>647186
Best post.
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>>647148
Well, why not? You might as well get people's input from here too. I don't see why it matters.
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>>647203
I'm sure something can get done but the goal of the OP is ridiculously high and leads to having to discern several major systems at once.
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>>646086
What are your favourite Kabbalistic texts?
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>>645167
>Basically, what caused the big bang/the universe to manifest.
We don't know.

2000 years ago we didn't know a lot of things we know today. Today we don't know a lot of things we will know 2000 years from now. "We don't know" is the only correct answer you can give to these kind of things. Religious people and the people from thousands of years ago chose to give the answer "God did it"/"God wills it" to things they didn't know or didn't understand. Doing that today is simply stupid.
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>>644951
>Try to convert me to believe whatever your religious beliefs are
Catholic here

Why should I try, if you chose to believe you will chose what ever God guides you to believe, so feel free to take your time and when you feel ready don't be afraid to make the jump.
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Philosophy won't make God real.
>>
you can't be convinced to believe. it's a choice.
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>2016
>not being agnostic
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>>648433
>2016
>Not being a Scientologist
>>
Good overviews of the more recent history of analytic philosophy are Burge's Philosophy of Language and Mind: 1950-2000 and Philosophy of Mind: 1950-1990 (ch.20), the philosophy of science side in a very lively and polemical form is described in Zammito's Nice Derangement of Epistemes, "the best history of post-positivist philosophy and sociology of science we are likely ever to get", according to Giere's review.

That the linguistic turn has exhausted itself is generally shared. Burge writes: "The philosophy of language became a vibrant, semi-autonomous discipline in the 1960s and early 1970s. In fact, it was considered by many to be the new "first philosophy... But by the late 1970s or early 1980s philosophy of language no longer seemed the obvious propaedeutic for dealing with central philosophical problems. As I have intimated, one ground for this shift was that many philosophers felt that philosophy of language had done its job that the natural development of philosophical reasoning led into the philosophy of mind, or other adjacent areas". From publisher's abstract:"Zammito shows how problems that Quine and Kuhn saw in the philosophy of the natural sciences inspired a turn to the philosophy of language for resolution. This linguistic turn led to claims that science needs to be situated in both historical and social contexts, but the claims of recent "science studies" only deepened the philosophical quandary".

Philosophies of mind and science however remain vibrant. Sure, we do not live in the time of Kant and Hegel, but Unger's charge of "emptiness" targets Lewis, Putnam and Kripke. What about Quine, Kuhn, Davidson and Dummett?
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>>645898
NO, IT HAVE TO BE 5 PER WEEK DEN, CUZ THE CHILD COULD BE A WOMAN!
>>
I think the agnosticism is the only proper thing right now. Of course religions were created by men in order to control the masses, which is totally understandable for times like those then.
But, believing in one or another form of God is just a believe. Believe is not a fact, it is pure faith and nothing more. So is the thing with the atheists. Yes, we now understand much better the world and the universe but this is not enough though. You can't be sure wheter there is something big or not.. something big that kinda brings balance to the universe, i mean. Religion and God are separete things. I used to be a hardcore believer, then i was an atheist. Now i don't give a shit. I don't care if there is a God or something else, much bigger than we can ever imagine. I just see the result that there is a lot of sadness and misery on this planet, that i can't respect a possible God that could have create such a cruelty.
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>>644951
Follow Judaism, we're pretty chill. Probably some of the most humanistic beliefs out of any monotheistic religion, we believe in evolution, and after you die you're in the ground.
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Hail Eris! All glory to the undivided eight-pointed chaos!
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>>649993
The chillest thing about Judaism is even if you accept it as true actually being an observant Jew is totally optional.
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>>644951
Join the glorious brotherhood of Timbo.

The core principle of Timboism is that the only thing we can posit as a first cause of the universe, is the universe itself as to conclude anything else exists is making an blank assumption. Thus we must conclude that were the universe to have a cause it must be the universe.

The way this works is the universe has given rise to intelligent life, therefore the destiny of this life is to progress to a point where technology is so advanced that time travel, the creation of something from nothing, and extremely sophisticated AI are all possible. At this point humanity, or perhaps some alien species, are basically godlike cyborgs. And so they send one of their own or perhaps even a machine back in time to a point where the universe didn't exist to invent the universe using this other-worldly technology.

This artifical manipulation of space and time is the reason why things that seem almost miraculous like abiogenesis and the very existence of the universe are possible.

The very fact that the universe exists is almost paradoxical, as if it came out of no where. This is true, it is paradoxical. But because the universe hasn't undone itself from the sheer madness of this it must be concluded that this contradiction is retroactivally rectified through the universe creating itself. Thus the only way the universe can make sense is if it is its own reason for existence.

The universe can be sumed up into two key periods on this basis. The period after the creation of the universe (which is now in the past), and the period after the universe creates itself (which is now in the future). From this it can be said the only time that doesn't exist "before" so to speak the universe is created is the time after both of these events. As illustrated in this picture.

Red being the period after the universe is created, blue being the period after the creator is created, and purple being the link between both periods
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You may want to look at the Invisible Pink Unicorn for your spiritual salvation. May Her Holy Hooves Never Be Shod!

Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of great spiritual power. We know this because they are capable of being invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
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>>644951
Objectively speaking, Buddhism (Theravada) is the most intelligent, rational, humane, and enlightened of all world spiritualities.

It doesn't mention God once, but rather it makes you appreciate the divine in Man.

Theravada Buddhism is a patrician tier religion. All others like Islam and Christianity are popcorn.
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>>650374
>divinity
>human form
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>>650368
All Hail the IPU!
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>>650368
>>650392
Invisible, Pink & Horny, like me!
What's not to like?
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http://pinkunicorn.net
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>>650368
>>650392
>>650437
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Trika Rahasya
Kashmir Shaivism
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>>650506
http://realitysandwich.com/170364/secrets_kashmir_shaivism/
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Vietnamese Mahayana Buddhist here. Basically, the core of Buddhism in it's simplest form is just try not to be a fucking cunt to everyone. I used to be a giant edgy cunt, but now I don't give a fuck about a lot of things that piss me off.

In Buddism, you don't have to worship a god or superior deity. Just live you life as you do and used the 8 Fold Path to make your life less stressful and make better decisions. I'll tell you some stuff that really stuck out to me while reading Buddhist books.

>Nothing last forever
It's t rue nothing last forever. Rome didn't last forever, neither did Hitler's empire or the Mongols, or that jar of yogurt in your fridge. However, don't be so depressed. Just because nothing good last forever, nothing bad lasts forever too. You'll be out of any a hardship you're in right now someday. I don't know when, but you'll be out

>Cause and effect
Do you know why WWI happened? Things don't just happen for no reason. Everything happens because of an event before it. For example, you're eating an apple. The apple came from a tree, which grew from the seed of an apple, and that apple came from another tree, etc.

>It's all up to you
There's no higher being controlling our will.Whatever happens in your life is partly because of you. Why are you so sleepy today? Because you spent last night jerking off till 3 AM. Any success or failure is determined by your efforts. Any hardship you feel in your life right now is only temporary, and you will get through it faster if you work on getting yourself out of it.

>People suffer from greed, anger, and ignorance
People can suffer from one 3, 2 or all. Most people are very ignorant however, which lead to anger and greed. If someone angers you, they dirty themselves first because they think of it first, hear it first, and say it first. These people are simply ignorant. If someone calls you a retarded niggershit, it doesn't mean you are one. You're you, not a retarded niggershit.
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Shri Vidya
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Kali
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>>644951
>Why does religeon exist?
A rational human has a need to have a "purpose" in life.
If you believe that there is no purpose, you would want to die.
>What is that purpose?
It's subjective
>My belief:
You shouldn't let anyone else tell you what your purpose is.
You'll find what your life philosophy is eventually.
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JAI KALI MAA !
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>>650488
We're BAACK !
See how SHE Shuts everyone else down?
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>>650368
>>650392
>>650437
>>650446
>>650488
>>651048
>>650542
>>650576
>>650562

HER HEReness IS The ONLY WAY!
HERe & NOW, Everywhere Everywhen!
SHE IS!
IS IS !
Recognize The SELF In the Mirror.
The Reflection Space..
Shout out to my Trika brothers also!
There IS No Difference between Shiva / Shakti !
Much Love, my friends!
Ooh Yum! Vanishing Cream!
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That's not the point, you must realize yourself otherwise there is no growth.
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>>651143

Oh PLEASE Tell 'Me' the Point!
Is it at the tip of my horn?
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>>651143
Growth? Like my tentacles?
I am, after all, the Flying Spaghetti Monster!
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>not connecting yourself to the immaterial so that you can perceive the Invisible Pink Unicorn
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>>651143
And what, exactly, do you mean by 'real'ize?
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>>644951
lel who made this

i hate larpers as much but wiccan isn't fucking paganism, it's some shitty amalgam of various unrelated things made on dumb pseudohistoric beliefs and muh witchraft
>>
This is all you need to know

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_induction

Now, say after me: ignoramus et ignorabimus

You now have the wisdom to take on the world. You're welcome
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>>651187
So...
Let me get this straight.
'YOU' can "perceive" More than MahaMaya?
How do you know that your 'perceptions' do not deceive you?
Is it 'your' 'senses' 'you' are relying on?
Is it 'your' interpretations of the signals to 'your' brain you are relying on? Just 'who' do 'you' think 'you' are? Do 'you' KNOW? 'Who' Knows? The SELF? 'Who' IS THE SELF?
'What' IS The Mind?
'Where' IS Conciousness?
Do 'You' KNOW?
Do 'You' Want to Know?
Is 'That' "growth"?
'I' ain't 'here' to make fun!
'I' AM HERE to Have Fun!
To PLAY!
Is PLAY (Lila) All 'there' IS?
What part in the Play do 'You' PLAY?
Do 'You' Wanna KNOW?
Is that "growth"?
The question is ALWAYS the Answer, my friend!
ENJOY the Quest; but, above all, ENJOY!
The Sun will Always Shine Through!
Illumination Is HERE for 'you' NOW!
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>>648353
What are you implying by posting a picture of Hegel? Wasn't he a theist? I don't understand.
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>>651253
Probably the final word.
None can compete with HER HEReness!
BHAIRAVI Be Praised!
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OM NAMAH SHIVAAY
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>>645141
>>645144
>>645145
>>645148
>>645149
>>and so on...

>spaces before question marks, colons, and exclamation marks

Are you a frog, m8? honest question btw
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>>644951
Every form of advancement stems from the desire to destroy our fellow man, through deception, betrayal, war and strife do we grow. It is with the notion of strife itself in which we as a race live for to struggle with ourselves, with nature and everything around us. Do not be misguided by false idealizations of 'consistent peace' in it's many forms for as each grain of peace taken in, suffering of an unprecedented amount will follow, but this does not mean that you must lay in the bed you make.. For all you must do is look no further than the difference between the rich and the poor, redirect your pain to another and grow from their suffering.

Pleasure at a price is not one that you must always pay.

To which I implore you to embrace the so-called evil we push to reject, wrack your mind with desires and appetites and see your brothers as the cost to achieve it, for nothing in this world truly matters that your own satisfaction, no matter the cost.
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>>645058
I fully agree with you. Agnosticism is the only logical belief system.
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>>645197
Given that the entire Environment on Earth might have almost screwed itself over several times, I don't feel that its particularly elegant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medea_hypothesis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_Earth
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>>645003
>which branch of Catholicism
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>>644951
I'm agnostic, but as I grow older I feel that if there is no next world or things like transcendent forms, divine love etc. then everything is utterly pointless. That bullshit about everyone creating their our meaning of life is absurd, it only holds up till you realize fabricated objectives are as real as ethic rules - they are just a paperthin barrier holding nihilism.

If we are meat machines and the one true valid moral system is secular; if feelings are just products of chemical reactions and there is nothing transcendent about them, if we are just animals and there is only instincts and brain reactions instead of pure consciousness or soul, we could all explode the world and kill the entire human race and it would make zero difference at all.

So, this probably won't convince you of anything (it wasn't even an argument), but I was willing to share this with someone now.
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>>651420
no, but you already pointed this before, whereas, in casual writings, even the british and the americans put spaces before punctuations (due to ignorance of the rules). Sometimes people (the nytimes) also put a space around the em-dash.
You really have never noticed this before ?
http://english.stackexchange.com/a/14015
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>>645886

are you otherkin?
>>
if you don't believe in my god I'll kill you and then my god will send you to hell.

So, you better start believing.
>>
Shintoist here. I don't understand the question.
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>>654446
He's asking you why he should believe your views on religion and why not someone else's.
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>>654446
本当に日本人ですか?
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>>654478
>本当に日本人ですか
いいえ
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>>653424
I agree that the lack of inherent meaning is a sad thing, but what are you going to do about it? I for one can't just start to believe in a religion, it simply doesn't work.
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>>653657

No, I'm schizotypal and psychotic under stress
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>>653424
>if we are just animals and there is only instincts and brain reactions instead of pure consciousness or soul, we could all explode the world and kill the entire human race and it would make zero difference at all.
We most likely are but does it really matter? To me it doesn't. It's just the way of the universe.
The biggest problem seems that peopl want easy answers for problems that have no answers. (yet)
>>654484
>I for one can't just start to believe in a religion
Same problem for me. I can't just accept something as truth just for the sake of it.
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>>654481
そうかあ。日本に住んでいる外人ですか?どう神道のことを覚えました?今年の8月に日本に引っ越すつもりだって、神道に興味があるんだ。仏教が西洋で盛んでいるが、あまりしんしられない。神道のpaganような気分が好きです。
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>>654511
*信じられない
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believe in the old gods pls
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>>654511
I found Shinto incredibly fascinating and it's a great insight into folk religions without.
If you would ask a japanese if he would believe in Shinto he wouldn't understand the question or just answer no.
You don't believe in wind or rain either.
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>>654529
Very wise. That's what I like about it, it's the ancient pagan religion of the farthest ancient times only it never got wiped out like in most other places. I'm totally down with the "spirits in everything" aspect, very pantheistic, I like it. Can't wait to delve into it when I move there.
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>>644951
My "beliefs" are less of a set of ideas than a feeling that propagates ideas. It's the feeling of being connected to the infinite series of causes and effects that occur in my lightcone and being in a harmonious spirit with my world. It's sort of an appreciation of the ineffable and also it's the ability to find meaning and "interestingness" in the world around me. That's god to me. Cause and effect exists and therefore consciousness does not, consciousness exists and therefore everything is one; you are the universe feeling itself.

I think I'm in sympathy with the buddhists and jainists, but as far as dogma and certainty about life after death that seems insupportable. I never really found it useful to follow a teacher either, and I think a lot of people use a teacher as a spiritual crutch. "If my priest/rabbi/guru contacts the divine I don't have to" seems like another way to go to sleep.
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>>654588
Well Said!
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>>650045
Exactly, it says nowhere in the Jewish Bible (Tanakh) to wear a yarmulke, or a full suit and Amish hat.
Old testament is best testament.
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>>653448

It just threw me off, and I noticed it because I'm learning French... I'm American, and I have never seen someone do this casually (not saying it doesn't happen, just haven't witnessed it). I have seen the em-dash thing though, and sometimes I get confused when as to when a space is supposed to appear next to them. Why do you do it, then? Out of habit?
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>>654857
Seriously?
You, of all people, should be a Christfag!
They are really into their rules and regulations! Don't you know that language and grammar 'rules' are fluid? No, they don't change as often as they do when war and calamities befall 'civil'izations; however, I think the whole point of writing, and communication in general, is just getting your point across! Isn't that what this thread is, after all, about? Or would you rather knit pick! Most would -- especially those with established belief systems! There are, however, those who would just enjoy conversational dilly dallying; and, in fact, many of us would rather just ENJOY! ENJOY Period . (Purposely offset that one with a space, just to make a fucking point!) ENJOY ! That IS The Point !
Right HERe & NOW IS The Point .
>>
I mean, Taoism isn't on that list, but that's fine.

It's not really exactly something for "conversion" or anything of the like. I simply follow Taoism because I've no real mind to try to understand something so grand.
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>>655166
Hmmm.
Not sure "the mind" is is all that 'real' anyway!
But, having been raised an American Christfag missionary's kid in South East Asia, I can assure you, Taoism is top-tier! It was the first 'belief system' I espoused to my parents at the age of 5, and many of its precepts I still hold dear. Probably why I practice daily sadhana in the Tantric Shiva / Shakti way now. Taoism and non-dual Tantra are very similar. No need for outside 'entities', or 'entities' of Any kind; including ego! Union of the opposites.
Unity.
The Null Set.
Bliss. Utter Bliss ...
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I've noticed that most people concern themselves with trying to get other people to think the same way they do about certain things; mostly so they can feel better about themselves and stroke their egos, while pretending to maintain a sense of sanity about the paradoxical nature of their own inadequate explanations and belief systems. Common as fuck, and twice as idiotic.
But me, I'm just realizing, am on a whole 'nother level of stupidity! I have spent my entire life (49 years now!) attacking other people's belief systems (because I never had one); yet studying EVERY belief system (in hopes of gleaning some valuable meaning therefrom), and wasting inordinate amounts of time just fucking with people (and their weak pathetic minds -- or so my weak pathetic mind tells me their minds are!)... Nonetheless, some progress has been made! I have seen the error of my ways! I just got into a rut in my thinking, and in my ways of dealing with 'others' (learned from an early age -- missionary's kid, remember?) I thought I was smarter, better somehow; because I wasn't some kind of idiotic Christfag like my parents, or because I had (and have) spent an entire lifetime studying this, that, or the other belief system in the desperate hope that someday.. maybe someday, I would find something that 'clicked', and I wouldn't be stuck having nothing to 'cling' onto! But now, after all this time, and all these studies, all the rituals and other pantomimes of behavior only appropriate to propitiate 'outside' forces -- I find my'self' alone, like all of us truly are; but I am in bliss -- the bliss of knowing who I truly am. I AM The Very SELF ! There IS No 'other'. I do not mean that in a narcissistic way; as YOU Also ARE The Very SELF! I know that now.. HERe & NOW.. Everywhere Everywhen.
I don't need to attack your belief systems, or get you to see 'things' 'my' way! U R who you are & it's beautiful! I LOVE You! As the Beatles said, LOVE IS All There IS! IS IS. Acceptance IS the Answer.
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>>644951
>No bacon
>No shrimp
>Cut off part of your dick
>When you try to convert, you will be rejected 3 times
>No real idea of an afterlife
>Women all covered up
>Really long list of arbitrary rules

No wonder we suck at being liked.
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>>654998

I just like thinking about the reason shit is so than calling someone out for their deficiencies (or mine in understanding). I am Christian in upbringing, though I have been looking at other approaches lately. Didn't know this thread would let so long desu, so I am in fact dallying in my own way at this point... and you in fact did not answer my question on why you exactly did that btw :) lol
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>>645024
i admire your posting style m8
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>>645070
>It's a highly corrupt and misunderstood religion.
>Catholicism being the most corrupt of them all.
Amazing how hypocritical this is. Did you ever think maybe you're "misunderstanding" Catholicism?
>>
>>654547
It survived because it had nothing to clash about with Buddhism.
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>>655761
Catholicism is pretty far beyond bothering to defend, desu senpai.
Even if you argued your way back out of the moral chasm of history, you still end up just being a irrational cult like every other religion.
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>>655681
That wasn't me who you were calling out on their punctuation style.
I was just calling you out on calling them out, and could do so again, considering the many grammatical errors in your last post!
I will not, however, and say I did!
Just because my posts are "Anonymous" does not mean that every 'Anonymous' post is me! Or 'YOU'! Or pee, or poo!
I am the one who said I liked calling people out on calling people out though!
I AM the one who said "I AM The Very SELF"; and So Are You! So, I guess, in a way, I AM the one calling myself out for calling you out for calling others out! So, even though I am, quite obviously, NOT a Christian; I can, through you, vicariously live as one, and poke fun! Hope you didn't get butt hurt that your question was never answered, especially since it was not me to whom you directed it! Every one of 'my' posts has a picture attached, if that is any clue; and yes, I was the one poking fun with the hornyness of the Invisible Pink Unicorn yesterday too! Know Thyself, and thou shalt know All! There IS No 'Other' .
Get the point?
Just Bee.
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>>655933

I see. I want to get to know you now.

You're not underage b&, are you? Don't want that mucking anything up.
>>
>>655917
Not religious btw, but what makes that guy thinks he understands Catholicism better than someone else? Especially as someone who was raised Baptist and not Catholic?

It's just hypocritical to talk about a religion being corrupt and misunderstood when someone can easily state the same thing of his view on that religion.
>>
>>644951
Believe in what you can prove that is real. These ideology mysticism will make you do dumb things.
>>
Shalom u'berachah,

Well proselytizing is forbidden in Judaism, and converting *is not* recommended. People will never fully accept you, and your only chance of getting a decent wife relies on you being both very charismatic and also having tons of cash. But gentiles are required to believe in Judaism (Rabbi Rabbs disagrees but I believe he is wrong) and to observe the shevah mitzvot bnei Noach.

I recommend you start with these videos:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgZtJk39nqY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4OzkVQte6g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlvmcSbiJh4

"There is more. Check this out:

The Gemora in Rosh Hashanah 25a says that Raban Gamliel had it on the authority handed down generation to generation, that the new moon appears not less than every 29 1/2 days, 2/3 of an hour, and 73 parts (in Halachah the hour is divided into 1,080 parts) of an hour.

In other words, the time between two conjunctions of the moon and the sun (according to their mean motion) is 29 days, 12 hours, and 793 parts of the 13th hours. In other words, 29.53059 days. This is the length of the lunar month.

This tradition, thousands of years old, obviously did not have the benefit of science to provide such an exact figure. Yet after years of research based on calculations using satellites, hairline telescopes, laser beams and super computers, scientists at NASA have determined that the length of the "synodic month", i.e. the time between one new moon and the next is 29.530588 days!

There is tons of stuff like this. The Torah had access to information that nobody in the world could have had at the time. How?

I could go on forever, with example after example."


For more proofs and if you have any questions, email Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro at [email protected]


You should have success in your search for the truth, and you should have a gut Shabbos!
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>>656178
But according to Rabbi Rabbs, gentiles are required to follow the shevah mitzvos. He understands Maimonides to say one thing, but I wont go into heavy detail, but I believe he is misinterpreting the Mishnah Torah (The magnum opus of Maimonides).
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Proof for Christianity:

>>>/pol/62872341

>>>/pol/62873136
>>>/pol/62873247

>>>/pol/62874146
>>>/pol/62874391
>>>/pol/62874554

Proof for Genesis account of creation to be true(no, it isn't about the world being literally made in 6 earthly days):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsbj7EN1Uzs
>>
>>644951

I cant. You have to be born into it. (Am not a jew btw)
>>
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The coptic church literally elects their pope via lottery and is super rad, it has adherents all over the world and unlike other christian sects has remained without much relative contraversy and the copts have a rad history too
>>
>>656074
But you can only believe something is proof. You don't know that the method of science reflects reality at all, you believe it does.

If you remove all dogma and start from absolute scratch you'll realize that absolutely every position you can have is rooted in faith.
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>>656565
I know Eritrean copts, been to their weddings and all. Ok people, nice food
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>>656565
I know Eritrean copts, been to their weddings and all. Ok people, nice food, shame about that flat weird bread tho
>>
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>>656575
Well said m8!
Drop ALL beliefs. See what remains.
That is the Only way to reach the Truth. All else is illusion, mere veils on the Naked Truth.
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>>655983
Underage?
That's a good one!
Just a pussy who smokes a pipe, that's me! You got my number!
You know, BOB smokes a pipe too!
You know BOB don't you?

http://www.subgenius.com/
>>
>>644951
>Try to convert me to believe whatever your religious beliefs are
I could just baptize you and you would belong to Catholicism
>>
>>644951
Look, we don't think there's a God, but we try to be nice guys anyways.
>>
I came to know Christ when I was 14. In the midst of hatred for life, and in the throws of abuse and neglect, I met Jesus at a church one night. A preacher mentioned how to be saved not only from an afterlife I didn't believe in at the time, but how to have an abundant life and have it to the full.

I struggled with drugs. I struggled with pornography - not just fapping, but sick, sick stuff and the control of it in my life. I struggled with depression to the point that I wanted to kill myself. I tried to. I sat in the garage with the car on, fully ready to fall asleep and die.

But then the words of the preacher came to my mind. He taught from the bible - I book I knew about, but didn't know how to apply in my life. I remember he said this: "The thief’s purpose is to steal and kill and destroy. My purpose is to give them a rich and satisfying life."

I realized that Satan, my enemy - the thief - wanted me dead. Jesus, however, wanted me to have life. Not just a pathetic, emo life I had, but a rich and satisfying life. I got out of that car, and kept it secret for years.

Now I use my testimony to share Christ.

I'm not saying "BECOME A CHRISTIAN AND ESCAPE HELL BRO" but I am saying that this life itself can feel like Hell sometimes. Jesus has been the ONLY thing that has pulled me from the fires and given me meaningful, lasting purpose and blessings I can't even begin to describe on 4chan.

He has the same in store for you, too. The God of the universe has promised this.

Up to you though to answer that call.

And FYI, I'm just a simple Christian with no ties to a denomination. Catholic, Protestant, Ortho - I love them all.
>>
>>656178
>>656229
>tfw part Jewish
>tfw recently fell in love with Judaism
>tfw want to serve in the military and IDF is realistically the only one that'd accept me
>tfw going to convert

Chaim my friend, I know is shabbat right now, but I'd love for you to answer my questions when you get back. Thank you.
>>
>>644951
There is no God or Gods except the one God.

His laws are found in the quran, and Mohammed is the role model.

Every nation has their messenger.

God is all merciful, he wants to forgive all your sins.

The only unforgivable sin is polytheism.
>>
>>657893
Why would polytheism be so unforgivable, compared to say, mass murder?
>>
>>657905
Sins that only affect you are completely forgiven.

Sins that affect others (i.e murder) must be forgiven and by God and the person who was murdered. In the world, to be forgiven for murder you must be killed, and if you killed more than one person, its up to them in the after life to forgive you. If they don't, you get an equal punishment. If they do, they get a reward or reduce their torment if they are destined for hell.
>>
>>657905
to answer your question, polytheism is a direct insult to God and up to him alone to forgive it, which he promised he wont. Because its a direct rejection of his own existence and/or competence.
>>
>>657932
and insults are the biggest thing you can do to God, because you can't hurt him

so you did the worst thing to the best thing

what does that make you? the worst thing
>>
>>657947
Damn, that's a pretty hard sell.
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>>657957
yes, well thats just the truth

people dont know the weight of calling upon other than God, if only they knew the torment awaiting them, they would turn back on their ignorance and worship our creator alone
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>>657966
And [warn of] the Day when We will remove the mountains and you will see the earth prominent, and We will gather them and not leave behind from them anyone.

And they will be presented before your Lord in rows, [and He will say], "You have certainly come to Us just as We created you the first time. But you claimed that We would never make for you an appointment."

And the record [of deeds] will be placed [open], and you will see the criminals fearful of that within it, and they will say, "Oh, woe to us! What is this book that leaves nothing small or great except that it has enumerated it?" And they will find what they did present [before them]. And your Lord does injustice to no one.

18:47-49
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>>657966
If only there was some effective way to convert them by force and save them from this terrible sounding fate.
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>>645158
/thread
However, alll heavenly bodies in our solar system should be venerated.
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>>657921
Even the very term "after life" automatically means there is no life there! It is 'after' life! So, threatening folks with some imagined hellish bullshit 'after' life is not only laughable, but entirely illogical: let alone unbelievable! Why is it that Patriarchical religionists always use that threat of some future spanking by some big Daddy in the sky in the 'after life'? Perhaps to control your dumb ass while you are still alive? Ya think? Or do you? Mayhaps you're waiting to use your fucking brain in some imagined 'after life'!
>>
>>645158
Best of all, the Sun doesn't actually give a shit what you do in life, granting you the freedom to seek your own path and live with the consequences.
>>
>>645141
>>645144
>>645145
>>645148
>>645149
>>645150
>>645151
>i just read hume's writings
man, do you think this will make me believe in god
>>
>>658057
it is not hume. it is not about god.
>>
>>645158
the sun prevents you to sleep good. you die if you do not sleep good => the sun permits you to live.


yeah okay, thanks for being a 20 yo.
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I think it is high time that somebody in this thread mentioned that NO monotheists actually worship One God! None are Monists. They ALL, without exception worship an imaginary God AND an imaginary Devil! Before I get to the 'imaginary' part (even though it should be obvious that all beliefs are mental constructs), let's tackle the dualism inherent in monotheistic dogma. 'God' is automatically assumed to be an 'entity' outside oneself; therefore 'you' are SEPARATE FROM GOD (born into sin, in need of 'salvation', all the regular bullshit that goes along with separation in general). Furthermore, an imagined Counterpart to 'God' MUST be causing all the problems, cuz 'God is Good, emkay?' You don't see true Monists (Trika) believing in the Devil or Satan! It's only you Patriarchical religionists who create Devils and demons to give your 'God' some'thing' to be at odds with! Only Monotheists are naïve enough to not recognize the Truth of the Unity of All 'things', cuz they are so busy 'thing'ing, instead of thinking! And they say that 'God Is LOVE'! Love Is Verb -- the very Act of Union! Non-Separation. Non-Duality.
What is wrong with you monotheists is that you think there is something wrong! Something that needs 'fixing'. Some'thing' you need to be 'saved' from!
A little Acceptance would go a long way toward remedying all your supposed 'problems' in life! But Accepting the TRUTH does not seem to be your forte. You'd rather celebrate Separation, Duality and Strife. Good luck to you. You're gonna need it! Thanks a lot for all you've done for all of us! What a part you are playing in this Play! Who else but you could play such a far out game! We appreciate your service in the reflection space, else how could we see our own image so clearly -- the very image of GOD!
Don't look so graven. Methinks there might be a commandment about making graven images too! Or should I say 'two'? White or Black, - or +, Good or Bad, God or Devil. I suppose it's all how you look at 'things'!
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>>644951
If I tried to that wouldn't give you the absolute choice in the matter. So I wont.
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>>658262
It's called dualism. Not every philosophy has to be based in monism.
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>>645158
This.

Literally the only logical worship.
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>>645158
>he thinks that all your atoms besides the first four come from the sun

Oh I am laughing but you are correct about everything else
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I believe that only conception of god that can have sense is God as an author of fiction. We all are imaginary characters in his work. It really explains everything. God is omnipotent or omnipresent like writer of fiction. All religions based on holy books, scripts or at least some kind of tales. Why? God at his core is just a fiction writer and all religions reflect this nature of him. In the beginning was the Word even says Holy Bible. You can understand all New Genesis under assumption that Jesus is just self-insert of the God without much problems with trinity. Also like God created all of us with his imagination you can create imaginary characters too and became a God of your our world. Even all so called atheists ironically understand how deep God and imagination are connected and Fictitious nature of him. All religion system believe in some kind of real god. But the harsh truth here is that if omnipotent God would real then nothing else can even hope to be somewhat real compared to him.
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>>645158
ATEN
T
E
N
>>
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>>656735

Noice. What's it like to be stuck in Ohio? Lol

Looking more for a Muṭahharah than a pussy though, sorry bud (unless your "devivals" provide...)
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>>660007
I've never actually been to Ohio, or a Church of the Subgenious devival (although I have met some members, and they were pretty heavy with Slack!); but I can say that my Muladhara Chakra was definitely opened by Discordianism, and their devivals are well worth attending! All Hail Eris!
http://www.principiadiscordia.com
I am unacquainted with the Islamic term you are using. Maybe it has something to do with pederasty; but I know I'd rather be pokin' around in the Muladhara myself! And I like to do me some pokin' around in da pussy also! That's why I'm attracted to Goddesses like Eris, the Invisible Pink Unicorn & BHAIRAVI (if you really want your Muladhara opened!)
HSRAIM HSKALARIM HSRSOUH
SHE will Really ride your ass though!
Maybe even your Muṭahharah!
>>
>>660258

It means "a purified one (a spouse cleansed of bodily imperfections)". It's found in 2:25 of the Quran; they are found in the gardens the believers dwell in forever.
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>>660300
Thank you for your edification.
A woman with a perfect body?
I could hang around in some gardens with a bunch of 'em; but I'd have to be a true believer first?
Sounds pretty body-oriented, and not really worth the price to me, considering that attaching that much importance to the body is attachment to a rotting corpse, and attachment to beliefs of any kind is no different than pulling the death shrouds more tightly about oneself, ashamed of the Naked Truth.
>>
>>660474

Not a perfect body corporeal-wise, but most interpret as companions to your soul who are pure in essence, sometimes as without genitals. According to the Quran, you submit to God, yes.
>>
>>644951
I cannot convert you, only God can.

But I can challenge your worldview.

Are you certain about everything you know?
>>
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>>660575
Without Genitals?
What's the point
You are seriously fucked up?
There IS No 'afterlife', duh!
Goddess! You are dumb!
And 'dumb' means you better shut the fuck up! What an idiot!
Still, I Love You, bro..
I AM You!
>>
Just don't be a cunt to people.
Not to say there is any rewards for it, or punishment if you act like a cunt, not saying there isn't either.
>>
Pantheistic/atheistic mysticism.

I am using the alchemical Magnum Opus as a path to achieving a oneness with reality, or an evolution of self to be a reflection of the greater universe.

God is everything. "He" does not "exist", the concept of God is just that - a concept. It's the fact that everything in the universe is linked.
>>
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>>644951
Where is Tengrism?!
>>
>>644951
Punp
>>
>>653424

Objectively speaking, the probability of non-existence being eternal is exceedingly slim given the lack of evidence of eternity existing beyond a metaphorical concept. That means that even if the universe goes out in a big crunch, something will eventually take its place, and given enough cycles certain objects from last cycles will eventually be recalled, meaning that in the end what might not be true in one iteration will eventually become true in another.

So, it's not really a matter of whether or not any particular belief is true or false, but /when/ it is true or false.
>>
>>645140

>This concerns me because I think this is supposed to be intuitive to me.
>concerned

Why?
>>
>>645158

>All educated men should worship the Sun.

Are you serious? There are more grandiose and majestic stars within the Universe that you could "worship", rather than the Yellow-Dwarf within our Solar System. Also, the definition of worship is a sign of reverence/service toward the God or Gods (i.e in question) for the prospect of their faith being rewarded; which a star cannot return or even recieve, since it doesn't have the capability to (i.e Sentience/Awareness).
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>>651803

b-but the bible warned us about this
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>>668972
>>668972
Yeah that person is evil baka
>>
I think people are selfish, rotten in the inside, opportunistic as fuck and just want to cause violence to each other just for fun

I also believe that i'm like that and sometimes I don't know if I really want to change or be good

I do believe in god, but i think he will not make any miracles and he should just purge us all

What religion is closer to my views?
>>
"All men are the same though they appear different.
The bright and the dark, the ugly and the beautiful,
The Hindus and the Muslims have developed in accordance with their different surroundings;
All human beings have the same eyes, the same ears,
The same body build composed of earth, air, fire and water.
The names Allah and Abhekh are for the same God;
The same is referred to in the Puranas and the Quran.
All human beings are the reflection of one and the same Lord.
Recognise ye the whole human race as one."

Guru Gobind Singh
10th master of Sikhism
>>
>>669112
If you were a Muslim, you would be using the surroundings to continually prove God's existence. So please stick to a stupid religion.
>>
>>644951
be an atheist like me.

it's the easiest religion ever. you don't need to perform any rituals, of follow any rules.
>>
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>>658262

>They ALL, without exception worship an imaginary God AND an imaginary Devil
>Montheistic Abrahamic Religions worship the Devil

That's a Satanist and you just went past retarded. The reason why the term MONOTHEISM exists is because it refers to ONE entity being a God (i.e a Creator). Something that opposes that Divinity (like the Devil) is not a God.

>(even though it should be obvious that all beliefs are mental constructs)

In relation to material objects. You have to remember that all religious beliefs (whether mono/polytheistic) are tied and relate to nature, with the understanding that a divine entitiy/consciousness is behind the creation and formation of a particular elemental aspect (e.g like Zeus or Thor with electricity) or all of them (e.g Yahweh or Ahura Mazda).

>'God' is automatically assumed to be an 'entity' outside oneself

Humanity is not Divine by Nature/Behaviour (i.e Corruption and Death) and therefore, God, cannot be contained within a wide range of individuals, since he would be divided and therefore not ONE. The only logical conclusion is that God IS a distinct, singular entity which is completely seperate from other lifeforms.

>What is wrong with you monotheists is that you think there is something wrong

Are you saying there's nothing wrong with the World? And if there is "nothing wrong" there's no need for self-improvement or discipline since everything is fine the way it is?

>A little acceptance would go a long way toward remedying all your supposed 'problems' in life
>But Accepting the TRUTH does not seem to be your forte

Really? Acceptence means that you're ONLY aware (i.e a recipient) of the problem, not actually resolving it. Producing a remedy actually requires action on the part of individual or community to remove the issues that surround them.

>You'd rather celebrate Separation, Duality and Strife

In reality objects (including people) are seperate, dualistic (opposing) and that leads to strife/conflict.
>>
>>644951
I'm not religious but from a philosophical perspective I can see why religion could play a deeply integral role. You see, the basic assumption made by all men is that they exist. They have, at least empirically, no way of ever proving their own existence and they have no way of trusting any of what is taught to them. Religion shines a somewhat understandable light on these concepts of sentience we hold as human beings by TELLING us we were made, TELLING us all other men around us were also created and TELLING us that objective fact exists and the world around you isn't just an apparition tailored around your sole mind.
>>
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>>669172
Easiest doesn't mean best you pathetic materialist.
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