Is it true that many 4channers have taken up religion, Orthodox and Catholic Christianity particularly, from original positions of non-belief, not from agenuine belief but for reasons of a stronger moral code, taking a position against Islam and/or degeneracy, pure aesthetics, etc; or is this just a dank meme used to discredit the many tippers for Christ on 4chan these days?
It's true in my case too. I mean, I'm not a Christian (yet?), but I'm reading a lot about Christianity and theology in general and I changed drastically from a naturalist/materialist view of life to a non-naturalist/non-materialist.
All the atheists' arguments I see here where my arguments at some point in life, I was a fervorous tipper.
As a atheist you reject God because it is not what you expected.
And since you're not desiring to be open to what God actually is you do not see Him, nor undertand that He gave you infinite freedom - even to reject Him and to reject his free - totally out of any form of charge - salvation where you become what he is by being, by his grace.
The history of humanity can just be resumed like this.
Creation > fall > Jesus > continue from the point of Creation - it was and still is until second coming just a phase, just a consequence of the freedom the Creation had.
From the moment Eve took the bite - Jesus coming was already prepared, it was optimized so that it would be reveled trough longer time frames so that all that exist will have the opportunity of salvation.
The Jews were not special or magical in any way they were just the optimum medium trough which the message of Christ could be spread:
22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
Okay I totally respect that - but understand the nature of the board you're in and try to just ignore religious discussions if you're not interested.
Anyway I appreciate that you blamed my opinion over atheism and not the dogmatic analysis - for that I tell you that I'm not interested to explain or understand atheism I'll just pursue my faith with any explanations or justifications.
So your reason to get involved in dogmatic dialogues is your assumption that all Christians are a monolith?
With that you also just communicated that all Christians are a monolith - which is not true.
Pic related, 4chan has always been about memes and contrarianism
I started to genuinely believe.
If you're just in it for the aesthetics or politics or whatever, don't insult the faith by joining just to be a special snowflake.
This goes for every faith.
>As a atheist you reject God because it is not what you expected.
I love the "you atheists think X" posts. Being an atheist, they are trivial to disprove. They're still a bit insulting though. In any case,
*tips for Christ*
Why else would you reject God if not because He is not what you expected.
You may say - I expected Him to be here but I don't see Him.
I excepted Him to be measurable but He's not.
Therefore because it does not fit my model - I reject Him.
Then God won't reject you.
Just love life and desire life and listen to remorse, qualms of conscience.
God will judge everyone that is not in Faith by that, that judgement will be easier than the one applied to Christians that received everything by grace and done nothing with it.
A true Orthodox Christian would not consider himself spiritual nor believe in a spiritual field - force.
There's only God, we are bones and veins with the capacity of acknowledging God and that's it.
I was going to convert to Orthodoxy. It would have been more comfortable, but I disagree with a lot of their theology and sincerely believe in the Qu'ran. I still love you as my brothers, though.
There are no sects in the Qu'ran.
I will tell you that I am politically and geopolitically Shi'at 'Ali. If you want to know my theological perspective, look at Imam Al-Ghazali. Reason played a large part in my decision.
Nah. reddit/9fag/occupy wallstreet happened and as it turned out -surprise surprise- atheism was (and always was) mainstream. 4chan was convinced atheism wasnt the edgy thing anymore and promptly changed sides.
Anyway not history nor humanities. Reported
Wa Alaikum Salaam.
I was personally raised Catholic, and my family thought I was going to be a priest until I was turned - by the internet - into a militant anti-theist at the age of 14. I never believed that Jesus was God, in the ritual practices, that the Pope was infallible, or that confession to priests was necessary, etc.
Was it the same for you as regards muh hadith, speculation, and the general folk-religious nonsense that turned you off religion?
Neither, and I don't plan on either. It's a cultural thing that the uneducated believe is obligatory due to the fact that that its a sunnah.
Same to you, brother. Muhammad prophesied our alliance with "Rum" in the "end times", which in its essence means the Eastern Orthodox Church that you belong to. I recommend reading Surah-Ar-Rum (30) if you haven't already.
I wish i was religious. Ive had nothing but positive experiences with religious people and it seems like a great way to stop worrying about life (as douchy as it sounds i feel 'lost') but every time i try and read any religious texts i cant help but laughing at how ridiculously unbelievable it is.
Real Muslims un-blinded by the romantic portrayal of much of the Ottomans' deeds denounce the crimes they committed rather than excusing them. One need simply look at their personal habits to see whether they were truly Muslim at heart.
You will reconquer Constantinople with our help, and Hagia Sophia will be returned to its intended purpose. If I didn't have a family to look after, I would help in flesh rather than in spirit.
Yeah, but a lot of Buddhists here don't actually go to religious services or read many Buddhists texts, they just subscribe to negative hedonism and slap the label "Buddhist" on it.
And it's disbelief because you're not convinced by anything else.
The scientific method is the reason why you do not accept god without an adequate hypothesis.
The arguments for Atheism are then simply arguments against those hypotheses.
For that, 4chan is not a viable medium. /sci/ isn't going to ever be academic either. If the mods moderated that heavily, 99% of the posts would disappear. Academic rigor is just not feasible to have as a standard. Something to strive for maybe, but 4chan is way too casual to demand it as a standard, hardly anyone comes to this board wanting to type up something as if their professor were reviewing it. A lot of people here are going through school and come here to relax and shoot the shit.
There's a false implication in this worldview that atheism is the default position of humans, a perverted idea that has no basis in reality. "Magical thinking" is something we're born with.
Neo-Atheism is a cult. Scientific Positivism is a cancer that the Scientific Method wasn't devised for.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: -2 John 1:10
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. -2 John 1:11
That is the default position. Whether it "should" be is another story, but if you look up Theory of Mind, you'd see we naturally attribute events like tidal waves to agency. That's part of why we have become so advances as a species, our social intelligence is incredibly developed.
I dont know about you but when I was younger I browsed /n/ (news) and they where religious they had church threads every Wednesday and Sunday
There was even a tripfag named magic sky wizard that would try to rile up the religious
When /n/ was deleted I left for awhile before checking back in 2010
Religious dogma eventually spews out from its houses of worship and into public society, where we all have to deal with it. It's something you cannot keep to yourselves, since your team won't win if your numbers don't grow.
Belief in the supernatural is the default position that children are indoctrinated out of.
I think it shows that at the very least Materialism is false. Whether "God" is "The Force", or a conscious entity is not answered by this, however.
I personally believe it's both, but "He" is not conscious in the way we are.
Just because it's the default mode of thinking doesn't mean it is correct.
The scientific method exists to circumvent "common sense" approaches.
My post does not carry the implication that magical thinking is not somewhat default for humans nor that it is automatically bad.
Just that is not a solid framework for deeper inquiry.
A skeptical approach using falsifiable hypothesis is the best method we currently have.
I'm sure that must be very hard for you to deal with. In many parts of the world people still get killed for blasphemy, but I'm sure secular people telling you to fuck off out of the public square is worse.
I like how you assume every religion kills people for blasphemy and you do it without naming islam.
Most secular people could care less about people preaching in the public square.
You see most people aren't hard core atheist anti-theist so they just ignore it
too bad the world is getting more religious though
Just gonna forget about the communist suppression of the religious huh?
>inb4 communism isn't atheism
>not from agenuine belief but for reasons of a stronger moral code, taking a position against Islam and/or degeneracy, pure aesthetics, etc
This one and the fact that they're afraid of a world that is largely unpredictable and unknowable
Millions of people have been killed for being religious in the recent past.
>The League of Militant Atheists aided the Soviet government in killing clergy and committed believers. The League also made it a priority to remove religious icons from the homes of believers. Under the slogan, "the Storming of Heaven," the League of Militant Atheists pressed for "resolute action against religious peasants" leading to the mass arrest and exile of many believers, especially village priests. By 1940, "over 100 bishops, tens of thousands of Orthodox clergy, and thousands of monks and lay believers had been killed or had died in Soviet prisons and the Gulag."
>The LMG had reduced the number of religious communities of all faiths from 50,000 in 1930 to 30,000 by 1938 and 8,000 by 1941. The last figure includes, however, 7,000 communities in the annexed western territories (so that only 1,000 actually remained in the rest of the country).
It happened as early as the French Revolution, too.
I was always a Christian, but I only started taking it seriously in the last 5 or so months
Those statistics are disappointingly deceptive. That growth in religiosity is simply the result of the middle east and Africa having greater population growth rather than a revival of religious thought as a whole. I get the feeling they will fall victim to the same issues that hit the west.
Honestly its kind of suprising that its not so much people outright rejecting God and rebelling but just forgetting and moving on with their lives.
Athiests dont have to destroy churches and belivers anymore because the latter are both fading away like a draining sink.
this. Was raised catholic. left the faith in high school-early twenties, in part because my parents were rather apathetic towards religion in spite being in the church, came back after going to school and taking various theology and world religion courses.
I used to be very weak in my Catholic faith, but it has been greatly strengthened by realizing that the Church is meant to stabilize society and protect western civilization. I'm actually considering conversion to Greek Orthodoxy, since their track record in this regard is even better than the Latin Church.
And these ideas are from 4chan.
I'm pretty much a top tier false flagging shitposter. In the same thread I'll pretend to be a fedora tipping redditor atheist in one post, and then pretend to be an ignorant dogmatic turbo christian replying to him, all to stir up some banter.
>Athiests dont have to destroy churches and belivers anymore because the latter are both fading away like a draining sink.
And in 100 years, the Bible will be a oddity collecting dust in the hands of an archaeologist, right Volty?
If you don't think Byzantine actions to guard Europe's eastern front from Islamic conquest weren't the most important in human history, you're basically a fucking fedora.
No Byzantine Empire to guard Europe, no Renaissance, no modern conception of human liberty and freedom.
>no Renaissance, no modern conception of human liberty and freedom
Wow. Islamic scholars had a renaissance when they translated and adapted Hellenic texts to Islam. This was almost 1000 years before the European renaissance.
>no modern conception of human liberty and freedom
You haven't read the Quran past a Wahhabi, Hollywood interpretation.
I went through an identity crisis after graduating college and wanted to find a community that liked me. I was pretty passionate about wanting to join the local Orthodox church (because I fetishize history and Rome) but after reading all the stuff required of a Catechumen I still couldn't bring myself to believe in God, saints, angels, etc so I said fuck it and just decided to be an admirer of religion.
I was raised Catholic then went to a Methodist church for a few years. Then I didn't believe for a while. I came to realize that the atheistic community was terrible and that it promoted degeneracy. I determined the Orthodox to be the true church and I am in the process of converting. It's odd that Catholics and Protestants tend to ignore 1,000 years of Christian history.
He's yet another Protestant that can't fucking handle the Catholic Church.
I have yet to meet a single Channer Orthodox that ISN'T just a Protestant tired of their denomination but still possessing a lingering hatred of Catholicism. Maybe that Constantine tripfag, but that's it. I'll bet none of them even know about the filioque or caeseropapism.
I took it up because I realized that atheism is actually false.
God exists, just drop your atheism for two seconds and look at the arguments of Thomas Aquinas (not a summary of his arguments on some shitty site like patheos.com or r/atheism, but his actual arguments) and genuinely look at them without going "hurr dumb sky fairy lol" after every point is made.
Yes, 4channian "Christians" are just reactionaries looking for a "Western" ideology to attach to, like the parasites they are. They know nothing of Christianity, nor Islam, nor the "degeneracy" they pretend to decry. Luckily they are nobodies and will dissolve into history without anyone knowing of their feeble rebellion.
All of those things that you mentioned don't necessarily negate or necessitate a lack of belief.
If I come to Christianity desiring a moral code, and then find that God is the guarantor of that moral code, then my perspective on things may begin to change.
Do you really think no atheist has looked at the 5 ways (original, directly translated) seriously? Also you make fun of atheists for saying "sky daddy" but no one denies that God is personal. Get your head out of your ass. The God debate still continues.
this thread scares the fuck out of me. All this religion, so unfounded.
oh, wait, I got it! muh feels! muh feels guys! Aquinas is the atheist BTFOer! Find god, duh! He's right there! Materialism is so dumb lol!
It's funny the things your brain can do when scared of death lol. I appreciate evolution's "gift" (if you can call it that, more like randomness - but oh wait, randomness isn't an answer for the devout! must be god!) of consciousness.
i'm tip tip tippin' away but I don't really understand what calling me a fedora will do so whatever.
>i'm tip tip tippin' away but I don't really understand what calling me a fedora will do so whatever.
hopefully it will remind you what a humongous faggot you are
>this thread scares the fuck out of me. All this religion, so unfounded.
4chan has always been contrarian above all
10 years ago it was counter culture to be atheist, so the undecided 4channers became atheist
Now it is the reverse, atheism is mainstream, so the undecided 4channers are religious
They are fools, a large number of them were heavily influenced by the ''tips fedora'' meme, believe it or not. For reasons ranging from being helpless degenerates to ''reactionary traditionalists'' a lot of them chose to convert to Orthodox Christianity, but they do not realize that if you aren't born into it, its pointless, even more so as an identity. Most of the orthodox Christians are this by identity only with a non existent or loose belief in God, it is tied with their cultures and sense of nationhood. These fools also ''convert to it'' because they see it as legit Christianity because it looks archaic.
TLDR: kill urself my mane
Is math God?
Some scientists believe this
Interesting how we can't tell if math is a real thing or some abstraction conjured up by humans to define reality(maybe I'm wrong in this, feel free to disprove this)
>Is it true that many 4channers have taken up religion, Orthodox and Catholic Christianity particularly, from original positions of non-belief, not from agenuine belief but for reasons of a stronger moral code, taking a position against Islam and/or degeneracy, pure aesthetics, etc
>literally telling a Muslim to keep faith in Islam
Orthodox "people" aren't Christians
Orthodox planning to convert to Sunni Islam.
For any Muslims on here, is there any way of reconciliation between Sufism and Salafism? I for one am sympathetic to the Hanbali madhhab, but at the same time feel that it denies Islam its esoteric component(as understood from a traditionalist perspective), while at the same time the other schools are more or less compromising the faith in no small part thanks to their occidental sympathies.
>Also respecting the ten commandments regardless of your religion is also what God wants.
What about that commandment about having no other gods but jehovah? What about the one about not making craven idols? I can't see how that works.
>Can you guys prove god exists?
>Can you prove he DOESN'T exist?
>Oh my god that guy got so btfo atheism is over.
There just copy and paste that about 4 million times and you've get /rel/.
>You find Christ's Resurrection impossible to believe?
I've always found it kind of funny how he just sort of disappeared not long after his "resurrection", almost as if he never actually came back to life at all. It'd be a lot more impressive if he'd died and come back to life like halfway through his career, not right at the end.
>>inb4 communism isn't atheism
No it isn't, communism and atheism are completely separate things why in the hell do you try and conflate them? Just because communism is an explicitly atheistic political ideology does not automatically equal that all atheists have to be communists, how in the hell did you come up with that idea?
Well, there are two reasons for my current research of Islam and the desire to convert.
Firstly, Islam is the most rational of the three Abrahamic faiths and values a lot more the oneness of God than the other Abrahamic traditions; without the absurd doctrine('mystery') of the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus. And also, compared to modern Christianity, Islam puts a lot more effort in the maintaining of its theological purity, while the Orthodox Church has a mason with papist tendencies for the Ecumenical Patriarch, a former KGB agent for the Patriarch of Moscow, power games and infightings within the Church and only one or two somewhat important synods every century, while Islamic scholars constantly debate issues of theology, Islamic communities being safeguarded by their pastors and thriving in the faith, while for most Christians Christianity is superficial, with a mechanic following of the traditions at best, with no heed for theology.
And secondly, Orthodoxy without theonomy(as was the case in the Byzantine Empire and Russia between Tsar Ivan the 'Terrible' and the demonic Tsar Peter) is worthless. And theonomy is a subject that even then wasn't deeply studied and was not applied on a greater societal scale other than through a nod in court politics.
La 'ilaha 'illallah, muhammadur-rasulullah.
so you're ok with contributing to the decline of the West.
Cool, they constantly discuss their theology, big whoop, doesn't change the fact that it's an autistic, anti-western sand ideology.
I assume you grew up in an at least mostly western country, so what went wrong? How can you be so blind to the objective greatness of Western culture/religions/society. Why do you have to be so edgy?
I kinda understand the appeal of oriental mythology and the like, but why not just go full zoroastrianism/neopaganism/praying to greek or roman gods? At least then you aren't part of something that is inherently anti-progress, anti-greatness and anti-western.
Long live the Western World with America, the greatest country of all time, at its center.
To the rebirth of the West, actually. Christianity is a dying tradition and if you identify with the Faustian character of the heterodox West, then you are as much of a spiritual degenerate as a new age-ist.
But I see there is no reason to debate with you, as you adhere to materialist progressivism, when the only societal progress that can exist for a theist is through prophets and other forms of divine revelation. Greatness is not in wealth, but in spirit and the modern West is clearly lacking in that department.
And just so you know, a tradition cannot be followed if it is broken in its continuity. Without proper dogma and ritual & a legitimate initiation for the priestly caste, the tradition becomes void.
If you ask me, Atheism came about from Gramsci and his crew when they tried to dismantle the West. All babies are born Christian, and if you look at history, most smart people see the truth in orthodoxy.
Atheism came from scholasticism and its destruction of the balance between the exoteric and esoteric. Modern Christianity, with the exception of some monks and ascetics, is completely profanized
Really? when I was an atheist I would sometimes ramble to myself like a madman being angry as fuck as god for making the world the way it is. In the end I decided to forgive god for it and realized that I actually never stopped believing and being an atheist was my way of getting back at him
Yeah, but culture is far more important to a society than "spirit", if spirit can even be conflated with religion like that.
If you get joy out of kissing the floor five times a day, hey, you do you. Just don't blow anything up.
Meanwhile I'll enjoy my booze, Western music, television, movies, fashion, fitness and science.
Studies have been done on this. I believe that it was found that religious tendencies are a natural behavior rather than just taught. For example, attributing something to an intelligence when we don't know how something works. It's just like pareidolia, a holdover from our nature as a social species.
pretty sure the stoics knew what having that much sex eventually leads to. too bad you'll know once it's too late, but it's more than likely that you're a fat hopeless neet, baiting.
Life in accordance with the cosmic, divine order which is mirrored on all planes of existence and on all levels of them. And in the case of life in the conventional sense, the freeing of the spirit from the shackles of the flesh.
>what is the divine order?
That is for you to find out if you have the time and patience to study metaphysics. You can't explain the likes of Heidegger to a 6 year old, anon.
I'm not that guy spouting that new age gibberish, and I'll tell you what I sincerely think. If you can find happiness and peace in materialism or getting laid every weekend, or doing drugs or whatever then more power to you. And if this is the secret towards happiness then I myself would become its own propagant. But the fact is that one can point to these people, or rather, us westerners and see a spiritually dead husk of a man, toiling for the sake of short-lived pleasures in booze and sex, hurrying themselves into depression. There's a reason why a movie such as fight club became popular, and that's because it reached deep down to its audience (western men) in that they truly are in a spiritual war. You also have radicalized individuals such as the Unabomber who can see this problem and want to implement their solutions.
Again, the stoics knew what trying to seek happiness in such types of short-lived pleasure ultimately leads to, which is why even if you don't have a religion to point towards to at the very least you could try to correct yourself if you don't wanna end up a disease ridden sad cunt with debt.
How new are you to not have noticed it? A prime example is /v/, where decent game will endorsed as long as they don't get too popular. Once it's too popular it will retroactively be declared to been shit the whole time.
'Belief', 'know'. You are taking what I am saying from the wrong perspective. The exoteric is about faith and belief, the esoteric is about reception of that which is beyond matter. The individual in his infancy is a clean slate if you will(and even that is debatable since one is already of the matter and subject to the impulses of the flesh), it is at first by society and then by his own hand severs his connection to the transcendent.
I once imagined the lie to be the ultimate enemy; an enemy of life and of everything worthwhile in life; a pestilence that would sooner or later corrupt all that is grand and noble in life; debasing truth and beauty in equal measures; casting it's ugly shadow over everything. Now I realize that truth and beauty and nobility are eternal; they cannot be debased by the lie. They cannot be destroyed by the lie. They live forever. Only mankind can be debased by the lie. Only mankind can be left by the light far far afield; from truth, from beauty, from purity. And when man becomes sufficiently debased, every eternal value shall pronounce judgment upon them and shall act as their judge, and their jury, and their executioner. Now I've learned to love the lie. I love the poison it spreads. I love the weakness it engenders. I love the seeds of destruction it sows, and I love the judgment it brings. The lie is not an enemy of truth; it is an ally of truth. It prepares the way, it balances the books, and it makes clean the slate. :^ )
Not that guy. Let me ask about this transcendence, purely from a cirious perspective, not an argumentative one. From what you've read, who or what in totality has "access" to this transcendence? Is it only humans? And how do you confirm that perception of transcendence is taking place?
The evil that has overtaken them has its source
in self-will, inthe entry into the sphere of process, and in the primal differentiationwith the desire for self ownership. They conceived a pleasure in this freedomand largely indulged their own motion; thus they were hurried down thewrong path, and in the end, drifting further and further, they came tolose even the thought of their origin in the Divine. A child wrenched youngfrom home and brought up during many years at a distance will fail in knowledgeof its father and of itself: the souls, in the same way, no longer discerneither the divinity or their own nature; ignorance of their rank bringsself-depreciation; they misplace their respect, honouring everything morethan themselves; all their awe and admiration is for the alien, and, clingingto this, they have broken apart, as far as a soul may, and they make lightof what they have deserted; their regard for the mundane and their disregardof themselves bring about their utter ignoring of thedivine.
This will be quite lackluster without a specialized language, but to answer your question(s). When I speak of transcendence, I speak from an anthropocentric perspective. One has to be able of deep introspection and kenosis, which is what I was talking about earlier in regards to 'receiving'. It is a prerequisite to acting.
Since I assume you are most familiar with the Christian tradition, I'll have to refer you to (Orthodox) Christian ascetism. The Christian distinguishes between the world of matter(of the 'passions') and the world beyond(the world transcending the world of those living in the flesh). Now, you've probably heard of the concept of being made in the ''image and likeness of God''. Without going in too many theological details, the image is based primarily on one side on our free will(and implicitly of 'becoming') and our inherent capability of kenosis. The likeness, which is linked to achieving transcendence and the Godhead. Man is made on three layers - the flesh and its demands, the mind and the spirit. Normally, one's spirit is subjugated through life to a degree or another by the psyche(think of negative thoughts which one denies as being representative of the true self) and the flesh(bodily cravings natural or otherwise and primary emotions), those are the passions that theologians speak about. Christian ascetics seek not to overcome as to control them, but to deny the all together and the more they deny these passions and implicitly the more dead they are to this world, the more alive they are to the world beyond, transcending the matter as to receive God through the spirit and attain a deeper communion(of which the Christian absolute is sainthood). This is not a step-by-step guide one can simply follow with the objective in mind. One has to go on the path of becoming not with the desire of attaining sainthood(which is in itself a matter of passion), but to reestablish the link between himself and divinity.
“The world” is the general name for all the passions. When we wish to call the passions by a common name, we call them the world. But when we wish to distinguish them by their special names, we call them passions. The passions are the following: love of riches, desire for possessions, bodily pleasure from which comes sexual passion, love of honor which gives rise to envy, lust for power, arrogance and pride of position, the craving to adorn oneself with luxurious clothes and vain ornaments, the itch for human glory which is a source of rancor and resentment, and physical fear. Where these passions cease to be active, there the world is dead…. Someone has said of the Saints that while alive they were dead; for though living in the flesh, they did not live for the flesh. See for which of these passions you are alive. Then you will know how far you are alive to the world, and how far you are dead to it.”
-St Isaac the Syrian
And on the subject of the image and likeness:
I'll repeat it back to make sure I understand. You deny your passions to make them more alive in the transcendent realm, and once you've done that, you can confirm you've gotten access to the infinite and receive the absolute, which is what sainthood signifies.
Didn't you include bodily functions and emotions with the passions? Also apparently I misunderstood you. Could you explain what you meant by
>implicitly the more dead they are to this world, the more alive they are to the world beyond
By "them" you meant the passions?
>I have a Hollywood-level understanding of Christian spirituality and when someone elaborates on what it actually is I think they're just spouting new age woohoo XD
/reddit/ is that way, friend
Sunni Muslim here. Just wanted to say congratulations to the Muslim brother on this thread for embracing Islam. Hopefully one day the rest of these people can dig their way out of kufr and degeneracy and find their way to Allah swt.
I see it this way: my family (or my familial line, I guess) has been catholic for at least 1000 years or whenever Christianity took hold in Italy.
Who the fuck am I to decide otherwise?
It's my culture. I believe in God, but even if I didn't I'd still partake in the rituals of Catholicism because it is my cultural heritage. I think everyone should stay in touch with their roots.
>It'd be a lot more impressive if he'd died and come back to life like halfway through his career, not right at the end.
Jesus coulda shoulda walk to India, to China, walk all the way to America, then Africa, to Europe. Visit every human on earth to demo the resurrection thing.
>Islam is the most rational
Islam was a cool religion to follow for men in the Middle Ages. It really is basically a warrior religion meant to heap the most amount of award to men who fight for their cause. For example, in Christianity, you're not supposed to fuck any women other than your wife. Period. In Islam, you can marry up to four wives and fuck any women you acquire as slaves from war. So like you and your Muslim brothers can go attack some Jew city, slaughter the men then take their wives, daughters and sisters as sex slaves. And all of it is sanctioned by the god you believe in! It says in the Qu'ran you're allowed to fuck the women you (literally) own. Oh and if you die in battle, you'll be greatly rewarded in heaven with women who are way better than the ones on Earth.
Think about how that must have sounded to your typical horny desert-dwelling rat with a lot of testosterone and little intelligence. Now how do you think ISIS lures in young boys?
It's an awful religion for a modern, civilized society though.
Baby are racist, so it make sense they are theist too.
google "doll test"
Sorry, should clarify: a baby can recognize a difference in skin tone, leading to fear, leading to what's perceived as racism.
Essentially, people don't don't like what they fear and fear what they don't know.
Babies just don't have the ability to rationalize their thoughts.
>Sorry, should clarify: a baby can recognize a difference in skin tone, leading to fear,
dark skin = fear??
>jumping from orthodoxy to Islam
I don't understand how you genuinely believe in and had a relationship with Christ yet you are so quick to reject Him.
There has to be something else behind this. Otherwise you are trilling.
I wouldn't even call what most /pol/acks are practicing "Christianity". It's just identity politics for white people combined with resentment of women. /pol/ is mostly concerned with the social-conservative aspects of Christianity. It's not as if they practice Christian doctrine in a coherent way, in general.
We are both atheists.
>Was moderate catholic
>Went atheist although never was obsessed with "bashing" religion
>Went back to test the waters in Orthodoxy and Sedevacantism
>Found out these along with the other Abrahamic religions still are the catalysts for modern decay and that everything i ever valued about European values of blood and strength lies within the religion that existed before Christianity.
>Am now a Hellenistic Pagan.
Materialism leads to hedonism which leads to an atrophying of the human spirit which only focuses on comfort and is sheltered from the pain of existence.
When such a creature realizes that its sheltering cannot last forever or that it cannot encompass the rest of humanity, it seeks to destroy life so that no more pain and suffering will be had, this is the basis for anti-natalism.
Materialism is contrary to our survival, so no its not just a "feeling" even though "feelings" have a rational basis for survival or else they would not exist.
It is those who support materialism who are the most governed by their emotions always wanting the positive aspects of it but doing away with the negative.
You are confusing the two different definitions of materialism.
One definition is a philosophical position about the best way to describe the process of being. The other is the drive for capitalism.
Fucking christ-fag shit poster.
AKA the guy who hated horses so much he buried a golden horse with cabbalistic writing on it so they would all leave him the FUCK alone and somehow it is reported to have worked.
>implying they aren't connected
materialism attempts to reduce all to the knowable and undermines metaphor and mythology, despite its own lack of ability to explain reality at the lowest level.
It has been used to establish similarity and as a tool for marketing and globalization instead of a means of discriminating reality objectively.
This is just a vague attack by association.
It would be a pity if someone undermined metaphors. Then I would not be able to describe your post as being like a cake where someone just chucked a random bunch of ingredients together and threw it in the oven in a sieve and expected a perfect wedding cake to come out.
Materialists don't think their shit doesn't stink because its justified by science which even itself is subject to the same flaws as mythology if you look hard enough.
Materialism doesn't exist because all matter always is in flux so there is no such thing as a completely static material object.
>materialism attempts to reduce all to the knowable
Materialistic philosophers have been associated with skepticism which does the opposite of what you claim. Hume said the only real knowledge is what we observe emperically and than concludes that since we can't observe everything we can't even know basic things like causality. His successor Kant evolves this saying there is an unknown 'thing in itself'.
Globalization has long been explained as a natural evolution of ideology within Hegelian framework. Hegel is THE anti-materialist and he does everything you accuse the materialistis of doing. As for consumerism, well the other big name of idealism is Schoupenhaurer who advocated a buddihist like escape from the attachment and desires of reality.
>because its justified by science which even itself is subject to the same flaws as mythology if you look hard enough.
Yes, because all of those nuclear power stations are running on tales of Icarus and people saying prayers to the scientific method.
I guess the computer you are using is powered by bibles.
Science is the greatest trick known to man.
You guys... if we.... if we know more about the observable universe this disproves the existence of spirituality! WE DID IT WE PROVED GOD ISN'T REAL.
Wait, was the benefit to society again, and why do we so fervently want to disprove the existence of God? Sounds like we are killing the virtue of faith in general guys... guys?
At least I have Neil Degrasse Tyson and Bill Nye to back me up, I sure am glad those people are VIRTUOUS
And how have those power stations improved the quality of life?
Note i say quality and not quantity, depression rates have increased and this is not just due to a larger population.
Also stop with the christian crap, im a pagan.
You should thank Christianity for establishing the basis upon which your metaphysics derive their absolutism from.
You are straw manning his post. What he said about everything being in flux is exactly why pure materialism is not a working position.
Science and math describe things in abstractions. There is no such thing as a straight line because anything you measure is going to have tiny irregularities of pulsing energy at the smallest level.
Yet we construct entire gemoetric models based around the idea of this thing which only exists as an idea.
Perfect circles and perfectly straight lines simply do not exist in a materialistic model, they only exist in idealistic models.
Things get even crazy if you want to talk about platonic numbers vs numbers being a social construct. Either way numbers are things that don't exist materialistically.
Also arguments for the utility of materialism are not valid towards describing whether strict materialism is real or not.
It can be a useful tool as >>652272
mentioned but the problem is when it pretends to be THE truth and eventually becomes politically subverted for this reason.
We can see how "science" has been politicized towards egalitarian ends in regards to humans.
I'm not strawmanning his post, or yours, to point out that no amount of extreme epistemological attacks on science are going to justify hocus pocus.
The disgnosis of mental health is still in its infancy, claiming depression rates have objectively increased is, in itself, a pretty bold claim. Let alone trying to link it to a claim that nuclear pwer stations are not useful.
Eastern Euro here.
I was born into Orthodoxy and was never much of a believer, my parents thought me basic traditions and stuff but neither me or them are really religious. That's probably how it usually goes when you grow up in a post-commie society. Also religion here is mostly mixed with patriotism and nationalism so you can technically still be "religious" if you spam nationalist memes even if you never went to church or prayed.
I still love the Orthodox tradition and have utmost respect for it, especially for people who are truly sincere believers and follow their path without question. But such people are rare. Unfortunately the church here is tremendously corrupt, like any part of a post-commie system.
Im not linking it to nuclear power stations, im linking it to your argument that it should be followed due to its utility when i argue that humans in general have become less fulfilled overall due to its influences on creating modernity. Depression and suicide is only one aspect among others that illustrates how life has become worse as the world has been "illuminated" majorly due to materialism.
Man has brought so much order to the world that he has destroyed the chaos that made him strong and noble in the first place. But the chaos is never completely gone and will ultimately undo his order since he has grown weak due to his comfortable and sheltered existence.
Then the cycle will begin anew once more, i just regret that probably wont see the rebuilding of the new.
It's not a choice between materialism and sorcery.
You can't be a pure materialist, you need some idealism in order to make sense of anything.
I already gave you a classic one: numbers. They do not exist materially, so where they fuck are they? They only exist as ideas.
Even the concept of 'self' and indivualisism is impossible to explain without some idealism. I'm sitting on a chair right now, but after you read this the chair's entire atomic structure will have changed. From a purely materilistic view it's not the same chair it was before. The only reason we can even have the concept of 'chair' is because it exists as an idea.
Yeah but instead of saying everything is knowable, they go the opposite extreme and say nothing is knowable.
So we get an person who is unwilling to stand for anything, even themselves, which would explain the suicidal behavior Europe and the U.S. are engaging in.
>poor and vague
You seriously think modern life is healthy?
> to undermine the entire basis of making quantitative arguments at all
No, just to undermine YOUR argument.
Even with material comforts, people still are unsatisfied with their existences, unsatisfaction that did not exist to the same degree in the past.
Now if you are satisfied, then i have nothing else to say to you, enjoy it, while it lasts.
>You seriously think modern life is healthy?
This is a utilitarian claim. I thought you rejected utilitarianism.
>Now if you are satisfied,
I kind of like it to be honest, bruh.
This seems like a very angry and unreasonable post to interject into an honest and friendly discussion.
Maybe "making stuff up" could be interpreted as a bit mean but it is the best way I could think of to phrase it.
Did you have something you disagreed with rather than just making epistemological arguments against science? What exactly are your epistomological foundations for your specific system for understanding the Universe that you can justify?
Ok you have potatoes but where are the numbers? Did you grab the 'one' and throw out it out the window? Or did it walk away.
If the number 1 exists and it is not material than you've officially stepped outside the realm of materialism.
The numbers represent the number of potatoes you have.
Your argument is approaching Jaden territory.
The realm of mathematical understanding, especially reasoning of the world around us using mathematical terms, is extremely divine. The existence of a unit or monad being defined by Euclid and his predecessors as something which composes itself in all numbers and which cannot be reduced into anything smaller.
If you want to dig, I mean dig really hard into the epistomology of anything, you can find flaws.
Mankind has taken mathematics to increbible levels of complexity, based on brilliant logic from a simple basis, but you can still find its basis in counting sheep or toes, something you learned to do while a child.
The number one or the number ten is not some sort of piece of magic.
Well I gave you two explanations for how numbers operate outside materialism. Platonic numbers and them just being a construct.
Leaving materialism doesn't automaticallly mean you go into magic. For fuck sakes you have actual mathematicians that subscribe to the idea of platonic numbers.
I've given you multiple attempts and you have no fucking way of explaining numbers materialistically. So if you want to stick with pure materialism just come out and say it. Numbers don't exist, they are no more authentic than magic, after all they don't have a material form so they are all horse shit eh?
I gave you a readily understandable explanation and I called nothing horsehit.
What exactly do you mean by having a non-material form?
i have always felt very traditional towards heritage and localism, that is why i have believed in a sort of paganism. I come from a non believer religion (although i have roots down to martin luther, had to add that)
But lately I have felt a connection to christianity, i feel a little bit confused honestly
I have always believed in the existence of the Hebrew's God, but I've always had an issue with him as well. If man was made in the likeness of Him, then He is imperfect too, but because I Am that I Am(אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה), IS perfection, and IS Just, I always find myself at a fault.
Mostly because IF we are made in His image, and we have fallen because of the Original Sin which gave us the Knowledge of Good and Evil, it means that so too can God err from his promises. However because he is a good Savior, and a Just Lord, it just boggles me.
tl;dr God confuses me and I have no inclination to try and destroy my mind for eternal peace.
I probably sound stupid.
>the Hebrew God
Cringe that you call him that.
Anyway, we are imperfect because we are separate from God. If we were perfect we would be indistinguishable from him. He created something separate from him, and it being separate it is therefore imperfect.
What a life-denying religion.
I remember I heard a Hindu theologian talking about the difference in world view between his religion and Christians.
The Christian comes with you to the "good news" that even though you are a miserable sinner God has died on the cross and it's forgiven.
The Hindu comes with "better news" that there is no sin at all and God and the individual are one.
I'm not shilling for Hindusim but out of all religions Christianity is by far the most negative.
/pol/'s rise of religion happened at the same time as it started getting into conspiracy theories which really shows the two are related.
If you look on youtube all the people that are into conspiracies are deeply religious and like to blame their problems on satan. In /pol/'s case they went with the types of Christianity that let them blame their problems on Jews who are 'God's enemy'.
If you really want to make these people squirm, tell them that as of Vatican 2 the Jews are officially God's chosen people in Catholicism.
Explain this then you pagan.
Oh and let me tell you something, the whole unknown x meaning multiples of things not known is a modern concept. Like the Grave of the Uknown Soldier, which is dedicated to the soldiers that are dead.
Hellenic Paganism is the forefather to Christianity, and Olympic Gods are angels sent by God to create us and the earth, that's why they have passions, and faults, they are not perfect.
The good thing about Orthodoxy though is that the belief can be based without any hierarchy, and you don't need to follow their words, just the traditions. Most religious heads are masons, the Pope, Patriarchs, people from Islamic Brotherhoods, Dalai Lama etc etc, any religion with a hierarchy, has a mason hierarch. But instead of choking on the Pope's dick like most Catholics do, we instead follow our belief.
Now this is regarded to all the skeptics that are straying away from Orthodoxy.
If you want to regain your faith to Orthodoxy, simple.
Become a monk in Mount Athos, stray from all passions, and your faith will be rejuvenated.
Masons are there, but there are definitely some very, very, very not Masons in our leadership, and they are not complacent with the Masons. They aren't disrespectful, but they know what the Masons are trying to do and are not letting it happen. There might be Satan's minions in the Church, and will be until the restoration of all things (see the Parable of the Weeds), but they will never get to chance the Church fundamentally the way they want to. Even know, with the approaching council, they want to change fasting rules, but they will not be able to.
Due to our stubborness in the tradition, but unfortunately when the second coming finally arrives, the Schism will be mended and all will become heretics, because it will unify all the peoples and bring about utter destruction.
No, not all will become heretics. Just a lot. The Orthodox Church will stay alive throughout, it will just shrink drastically. The Orthodox Church is not whatever organization uses that name, it is the Church Christ founded, and it will prevail until the very end. I forget who said it, but some saint said that if only a dozen believers held to the Orthodox faith, then they'd be the Church and all others would be heretics. The Church probably won't get that small, but you understand what I'm saying, I'm sure.
The only way you will be saved in the end, is not accepting the mark and dying in society (the mark being the RFID), or going to the mountains. Either way, I wish that you don't bend under the satanic pressure, and choose one of the first options instead.