Post some Alt-History stuff. I like the idea of a modernized Roman Army.
I like the idea that pic related was in charge of North Africa instead of Rommel. Don't get me wrong, it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the war, but I do think that the Axis would have lasted longer.
Because the different mode of operations that Kesseleing would likely employ interests me as a casual military theoretician.
Rommel, despite his popular accolades, was enormously wasteful as a theater commander. I'm interested in how much the Axis could eke out limited resources.
Rather unlikely, given his conduct in Italy, he didn't just hunker down and wait to be hit, he was constantly mounting local counterattacks, and performing rather adroit maneuvers, which you wouldn't think would be possible in the kind of folds in Italy.
He's unlikely to pursue to Tobruk though, and that means you're not wasting half of your fuel for 2 years; and you have a smaller perimeter. Suddenly, sending something to help out at the Torch landings isn't so farfetched.
And don't forget, as soon as the Allies landing in Sicily, you had motions that would bring Mussolini down and Italy withdrawing from active participation in the war. That forced the commitment of about 50 German divisions down into Southern Europe.
Again, it probably wouldn't be enough because the Soviets are winning the war in any case, but the longer you can put that off, the better.
I also have a hard-on for the idea of a modern Roman Empire, but unlike most for me the change shouldn't be in 476. I prefer to have it that the Renovatio Imperii of Justinian and his generals was more succesful in the long term and that the Mediterranean roman empire, like China, always ends up re-unified again and bigger every time despite periods of fragmentation and external invasions. I would like something similar for the persians, I think they could've ended up getting along well again.
I like alt-history more the further back in time you go; totally changes everything from then on out.
>Jesus never begins Christianity
>Mohammed never is inspired by Jesus to become a prophet
>Any big religions in the area come much later
>Too late, in fact
>Europe and the Middle East are balkanized
>Turks bulldoze everything except Britain, Switzerland, and Scandanavia
>Glorious Kebab Empire for a Thousand Years
>I would like something similar for the persians
They kinda sorta already have a history like that. Persia proper has (almost) always been united, or mostly united, under one empire or dynasty or another.
Hello my fellow Iroquois citizens! Is everyone ready to celebrate Five Nations Day?
>Post some Alt-History stuff.
4chan won't let me post a link for some reason, so look up; "The Drowned Baby Timeline".
An excellent alt-history first posted to the Usenet newsgroup soc.history.what-if back in 2001.
20 April 1889
Klara Pölzl Hitler is shocked and dismayed to learn that her newborn child Adolf has accidentally drowned while being washed by the midwife. Klara has now lost a total of four children in infancy. She suffers a mental breakdown, becomes terminally depressed, and dies a month after baby Adolf.
30 June 1937
Marshal Jósef Piłsudski walks through the burned-out shell of the Reichstag building. He is not looking forward to the upcoming meeting with his French and British counterparts at Potsdam. They would be urging lenience in dealing with the defeated Germans, and he is in no mood to listen. His troops, many of them Jewish, have brought back photographs from the concentration camps. Despite all he has seen in the course of an eventful life, Piłsudski has been sickened. Perhaps he could arrange tours of the camps for the British and French delegations. That might make them see reason.
Anyone know some good Native American alt-history? It can be Peruvian, Mesoamerican, Inuit, whatever.
>Europe and the Middle East are balkanized
The geography of those regions predisposes Europe to always end up with regional powers (all the peninsulas, the british isles, and all the mountain ranges) and the geography of the Middle East predisposes it to go through periods of being unified by large empires.
This would still be the case without christianity or islam.
Well it would obviously expand, assuming the Aztecs didn't get fucked with sanctions for centuries / assuming that tenochtitlan isn't just an archaeological conservatory in your scenario
> an alliance of Britain, France, Germany and the United States against the Soviet Union
But that did happen, we just didn't call it a world war.
Pic very unrelated.
Manifest destiny wasn't a thing.
Native South and Central Americans retain their culture.
All colonies are settling colonies rather than resource grinding monsters.
Russia is fucked up and balkanized by a number of different factors and nations including Sweden, Prussia, Poland, and they are also never able to establish a foothold in Siberia.
Since Russia gets fucked, Königsberg and presumably that culture survives to this day without being demonized.
All Red revolutions fail.
The Arab world is quickly secularized.
Carthage wins the Punic Wars, continuing its' existence through the migration period.
Also the Ottoman empire never gains much of a foothold, and falls back into irrelevant anatolians. That'd also be the last caliphate.
>NOPE'd the fuck out, and ended up being followed to his house by it.
>The American patriots were successful in holding Montreal, the rest of New France and eventually all British claims. (They did have some support; maybe it could've happened.)
>All the other North American acquisitions still happen. Jefferson buys Louisana from Napoleon, later Alaska purchased from the Russians.
>Americans not only annex Texas to California, but feeling oddly less racist, keep the Mexican capitol after they capture it and annex all of Mexico.
>Americans eventually force their way down to the border of Panama, collecting most of New Spain. (And why not, collect Cuba in the Spanish–American War.)
>Something better than the American Civil War happens. (Because that was an especially awful war. Reconstruction messed up the south for a hundred years. Blacks were still effectively enslaved by the prision labor system until the 1950s, so like what was the point?)
>With their hegmony of North America complete, and the only land border blocked by the jungles of Columbia and the panama canal, the US takes the Monroe Doctrine completely to heart.
>With South America as a strong protectorate for colonizing, this significantly grows the natural isolationism of the people.
>WWI happens. The Spainish influence balances supply shipments, preventing reinstatment of unrestricted submarine warfare. Keeping the US out of the war.
>WWI armistice with Germany somewhat reduced from 1917 borders.
>The Ottoman empire still collapses. (Sorry, nothing I can do for you. But hey, Ataturk was pretty cool, right?)
>The treaty at the end of WWI is more equitable, so the Weimar Republic isn't a disaster and Germany has plenty of room to grow.
>World War II never happens.
>Europe doesn't destroy itself.
>The US remains a bunch of hicks, nobody really gives a damn about.
They have a moonbase by the 70's.
>mfw it says here you are a heretic.jpg
Thanks for that sauce.
There’s probably 100+ posts in the story, read it yourself, it’s the 1st link in a search for “The Drowned Baby Timeline”;
“As an aid to those who may be unfamiliar with the Drowned Baby Timeline, I present a brief synopsis and a list of blog posts.
The Point-of-Departure, which is what alternate history buffs call the event that changes the alternate timeline from our own history, occurs on 20 April 1889, when a newly-born Adolf Hitler is accidentally drowned. With no Hitler to unite Germany's radical right during the Great Depression, it remains fragmented. Instead of being converted into a legal dictatorship, the Weimar Republic falls to a right-wing coup led by Ernst Röhm in October 1932. With his popularity dropping, Röhm launches an invasion of Poland in May 1936. The Poles are able to halt Röhm's poorly-equipped Brown Army, and by November 1936 the two armies are stalemated.
The stalemate ends on Christmas Day 1936 with a Polish offensive. The Brown Army is driven back, and in June 1937 Germany is defeated by the Poles and their British and French allies.
Poland annexes eastern Germany, and by 1940 Poland has been transformed into a federal republic, with half a dozen Devolved Areas, or devos, established among the country's various ethnic minorities.
“A Soviet-backed coup attempt in Lithuania in October 1944 leads to war between the USSR and Poland. Poland is joined by several other Eastern European states, and eventually by Japan, and for six months the Red Army retreats across the Byelorussian and Ukrainian SSRs. Both sides agree to an armistice in March 1945, with the USSR ultimately ceding the Byelorussian and Ukrainian SSRs to the Poles, and the Karelian ASSR and the Kola Peninsula to the Finns. The Japanese, having lost Manchuria to the Soviets, do not take part in the armistice, and war between the USSR and the Japanese Empire continues.
As the newly-established Ukrainian Devo is integrated into the Polish Commonwealth, and the damage of war is repaired, the multi-ethnic country begins to experience a cultural renaissance, exemplified by the rise of a fast-paced mix of Jewish klezmer music and American jazz known as klezmerol. Meanwhile, an attempt by Benito Mussolini to use his newly-acquired atomic bomb to gain control over Yugoslavia is thwarted by the equally-new atomic arsenals of Great Britain, France, and Poland, leading to the creation of the League of Nations Atomic Control Commission .”
I challenge anyone here to write a better alt-history.
Thanks for wasting time on me.
I'll try reading that crap in the upcoming week.
Anyway, all things considered, Poland must've been on a sick arming marathon to take on Germany in 36 and the Reds in 44. Especially the latter.
>I challenge anyone here to write a better alt-history.
Let's say, for starters, that Polish diplomats are not total cretins and they secure Big Poland (federal or whatever) after the 1920 war with the Reds. Let's say that they keep with that attitude and get on nazis' side in 37 or the like.
Krauts get with their conquest of West Europe all while Poland (with Hungary and Romania, because why not) gets ready for the Moscow tour of 1942 or something.
That would require, apart of Poland being reasonable, Hitler not chimping out and Stalin, again, not realising his ass was on the menu.
Also, anyone else think the red menace could survive in the deep Siberia? Can't picture a large scale expedition to clear every single gulag out there.
Oh and also also, Nips could Russia too, instead of letting USA lure them out. Or whatever.
I got hundreds of pages of autistic fluff to explain how this world came about
Oh damn... So you're telling me the Ottoman Empire would have looked exactly like this...?
If it were any race but the Turks I wouldn't believe it... But damn...
It wouldn't be called as Ottoman Empire since Ottoman (Osman) is given because of islamic culture. I think they would have more lands than ottomans. But i don't know if invading lands would let invader do their shit. Like invading countries that made discoveries would let invaders do the discoveries
Also Turks had like balls of steel (which made them try to kidnap emperor with only 40 people). But Chinese strategists were more cunning
>washington becomes king
republicanism never quite catches on, developed world is still a system of monarchies, constitutional to some degree but with monarchs nonetheless far more active in politics
Poor anon, what are locked doors going to do? A simple push will allow her to enter. Locks haven't stopped her for years. A few brief moments, and she's in. The lights are off. You're in bed, fitfully turning in your sleep. She makes no sound as she approaches your restless form in the dark. A wheezing, rustling sound, like a breeze over dry paper, wakes you. You stare into dark, sunken eyes. Before the scream ever leaves your mouth, the bag envelops you. The front door is left open and creaking as she shuffles through the woods, dragging a large sack behind her....
As a Flip, I imagine that a Austronesian leader would unite modern day Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines as a Malay Empire before the arrival of ISLAM and the European Colonizers. Due to its archipelagic nature, it develops a strong naval tradition with its control of trade and a powerful military navy
It undergoes a similar modernization like the Japanese Meiji Period and becomes a huge power in the South East Asia. A world war would be very different with a power like this
>Röhm launches an invasion of Poland in May 1936.
>Jósef Piłsudski - Died May 12 1935
Tell me again what Space Magic the poles used to reanimate Piłsudski, or did die of an aneurysm caused by Hitler?
>Turtledove has a whole series of alternate history/semi science-fiction novels that focus on a what if scenario of the Byzantine and Sassanid Empires surviving to modern times.
Are you talking about this:
>Agent of Byzantium (1987) — Imperial Byzantine special agent Basil Argyros is sent on various missions in an alternate universe where Muhammad became a Christian saint and consequently Islam never existed and the Byzantine Empire never fell.
I didn't realize there were any other books in the timeline, this just deals with some early modern stuff.
>don't instantly recognize it
Are you well?
Do you have brain damage?
I always found the idea of a technologically developed, warmongering aztec civilization to be bretty scary. It would be ruled by high priests and would raid neighboring nations for people to sacrifice en mass, depopulating large areas.
I guess that timeline was written by a polish person ? In truth it is highly unrealistic apart from reanimated piludski. Röhm could have never pulled through with his visions. He never was the person to gain leadership in the first place and the Reichswehr would have simply putsched if he did. The officers, generals and nationalist elites would have never accepted his idea of a Volksheer. The night of the long knives was the event that secured the nazi rule, all the crackpot rightwing revolutionary and actual (national)socialist stuff was quickly purged.
Also poland stronk. There is no way even with germany defeated that the poles would be able to stop the soviets. I might accept an unrealistic victory over an much stronger foe for the sake of an interesting alt-history but twice is too much. Seems like a polish wankfest tbqh. It has a reason that the soviets became a superpower and germany dominates the EU. Poland was a weak and ill developed state in the 30s and 40s they were in no way able to pull of the crap they do here.
>I guess that timeline was written by a polish person ?
I don’t believe so, but what you don’t get by just reading the (very well written and thought out) timeline, are the hundreds of posts made at the time to the newsgroup for each installment, discussing and debating every element in detail. It was very much a collaborative process.
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy /his/ but this board is like kindergarten compared to the heydays of Usenet.
Well in my oppinion it isn't thought out well. Sure it is an intresting thought and a nice alt history but for my taste there are to many unrealistic elements. If there aren't major things that happened different in poland in TTL the timeline is plain unrealistic. Also may i suggest you visit the several different alt history Forums floating around? There are several with very well thoughtout and discussed timeline there.
>Rome annexes Carthage rather than burning it to the ground
>Rome later balkanizes into east, west, and African Rome, but neither of them fall proper, just fade into relative obscurity
>But Byzantium keeps all of Anatolia, boxing in Islam between Egypt, Syria, and Afghanistan
>>650057 happens, i love it
>Moden Latin America is never latinized except for the parts of the Gulf of Mexico, which becomes a superpower of culture and economy.
>North American tribes intermarry with settlers and share their culture in peace and prosperity
>Both Napoleon and Great Britan exhaust themselves against eachother, Britain especially slipping out of the global point of view, forced to give up their colonies almost everywhere.
>Russia falls to Napoleon completely however, allowing all the Russias to be their own states.
>Sweden never loses Finland and claims bits of Russia, like Karelia,
>Russia loses everything east of the urals.
>Sweden and Denmark join together
>Prussia continues as planned, uniting German speaking duchys n shit
>Fast forward, most african colonies are for settling rather than cruel resource extracting.
>The Boers are easily Africas largest nation, and spreads like the plague in South Africa in the power vaccuum left because of how weakened Great Britain is.
>In general, most colonies do not genocide the natives, rather intermarry, and leave a massive imprint in culture
muh germanic militarism and workforce in Africa
>Eastern states relatively dwarf moscows russia, and a red revolution fails in most nations where it usually would succeed. China however becomes communist, and so does Siberia. Both of them are then pounded into the dirt.
>Yugoslavia still gets Tito, but Titos version of communism is never quite challenged, except for a cold war with Byzantium, ending peacefully without military action.
This. Rohm was a homosexual bully. Hitler could've just told him to fuck off and he would've ran away with his tail between his legs. But muh prussian blood and honour and all that jazz.
>defeated southrons join victorian gold rush
>eureka stockade a lot larger and more radical
>support is found in queensland and new south wale's farming communities, especially rovers, sheerers, other traveling agricultural workers
>eastern australia becomes independent of the UK in 1890s
>WA, SA and NT still part of commonwealth
>Eastralia goes on to become southern hemisphere's socialist switzerland
>WANZCs fight in WWI, soon after Westralia federates with NT as a state
>present day no GST
What could've been m80s
They were pretty damn developed, they just had a ridiculously different way of fighting. They let the Spaniards recover and rearm before the next battles, and- rather naively- didn't expect any attacks to happen in the meantime.
If they'd worked on the sacrifice thing, and burnt the smallpox-infested Spaniards from a safe distance, it would have been a great place to live.
They did the whole raiding thing too, but land was no use to the empire if there was fuck all coming from it, so they didn't quite fit your vision.
Well then what are you so sad about ? The people are still out there, Also stop calling people son on 4chan thats pretty weird.
You somehow had to weaken germany in this story i guess but röhm gaining power is simply bonkers. Against a 1936 germany france, great britain and poland would have probably won anyway. What bugs me is the part where poland builds another successfull commonwealth out of thin air and is in any way ready to beat the soviets in the 40s when they have recovered from the purge and continued their huge armament programm.
>>Russia loses everything east of the urals.
Where would it even go?
>Mosley never resigned from the Labour party
>Becomes Labours head; ends up winning the 1931 general election
>slowly introduces fascist ideas due to his relationship with Mussolini
>better relations between Italy, Falangist Spain, Nazi Germany and Great Britain as a result
>1934 riots in France end up as a far right victory
>Germany never occupies France/Creates Vichy Puppet state as France goes Right Wing by its own accord
>WW2 is between the Fascist North Western Europe and the Soviet Union, 'Murica not involved
One can dream.