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Aquinas and Islam
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

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What was Thomas Aquinas' true view of Islam? I am considering reading Summa contra Gentiles for it.

Also is Islam truly a religion of peace why or why not?
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Their prophet was a warlord.

Enough said.
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He writes from the position that he knows the truth. If only he understood Islam what for it rendered, not those who lived different lives than he did.
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>>620375

"Islam" means "submission". If you submit, you live. That's a kind of "peace" I guess.

>>620380

Also a cold-blooded killer, rapist, thief and liar. Why anyone converts to Pisslam in this day and age is beyond me, granted kids born into it have no choice but actual adults who come along and say "Hmm, this murderous child rapist thief sounds like just the kind of spiritual leader I've been looking for!"! confuse me no end.
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>>620380

Moses was also a warlord, yet he's still hailed as a major prophet in Christainity.
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>>620380
Islam is the master morality, while Christianity is the slave morality. Muhammad emboided the change he wished to see in the world, He made all the Arab tribes listen to him, and defeated every threat to a United Arabia.

>In the times of ignorance we buried our daughters and lived on lizards and drunk ourselves into feebleness, but now we do that no more.

Meanwhile St.Paul was a resentful piece of shit who ruined the perfect gospel and made everyone into cucks

>If Muslims hold the resentful faith in contempt, they have every right to do so.
ISLAM at least assumes that it is dealing with men
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>>620375
Islam is the only religion that submits to God because it doesn't need any of the following:
- Apostolic figures.
- Saints.
- Acts of intercession (from important religious figures or people who are not alive).
- Veneration of people not important to the spread of Abrahamic religions.
- Symbols of worship (the crescent moon is not the symbol of Islam, please don't try and use this).
- Symbols *for worship (before you say the Kaaba is worshiped, it's the land that it's on. The house of God ha sbeen rebuilt many times over the last few centuries; also no, we don't worship the black stone that sits with it either. That's just a centerpiece).
- Shrines.
- Authoritative texts outside of the Abrahamic religions.

It's sad seeing people fall short of what Islam teaches. Placing dogmatic beliefs of conquerors on Islam, as if Christians were not free of this label (in reality all religious ideas can be expressed in many different ways by many different people, which is why this argument is moot to begin with). Also you'll notice of the things I mentioned above, other "Muslims" will recognize them as legitimate but they have in fact fallen into the heretical trap that God forewarned many generations earlier with Judaism and Christianity.

If you're going base your opinion on an entire faith from the perspective of one man (which is conveniently what Aquinas did on Muhammad) you're not going to get anywhere.
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>>620375

>is Islam truly a religion of peace

Islam is not a pacifist religion. It does not preach non-violence. It teaches that the use of violence is obligatory in the face of oppression, for reasons of self-defence, or in response to treaty violations (defensive jihad).

A lot of Muslim scholars are of the opinion that jihad can be fought for offensive reasons too, although not for reasons of forced conversion as some critics of Islam like to claim.

Islam also prescribes death as a punishment for various sins such as apostasy, which we would deem a violation of freedom of conscience in a contemporary setting.

None of this is a major departure from the Abrahamic tradition. The Old Testament is littered with calls to war and even genocide from the God of Israel. The Old Testament very clearly sets out that the punishment for apostasy is death. This is true for various other sins as well.
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>>620444
>Meanwhile St.Paul was a resentful piece of shit who ruined the perfect gospel and made everyone into cucks

As a Catholic, God, St Paul gets my goat. You fucker Paul, you just had to present your own shitty personal views as what the Church should believe.
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>>620493

I'm just curious, from a non-Christian perspective, why are you critical of St. Paul? I thought he was pretty universally revered among all major groups of Christians? Isn't he the leading theologian of the Pre-Nicene movement?
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>>620507
He introduced a lot of silly ideas into Christianity like that Jesus is the son of God, which Jesus himself never mentions not does he explicitly state being God in the NT. If you assume the OT is fulfilled the idea is even less credible, not that it was ever to begin with. It makes more sense that Jesus was God's messenger and nothing more.
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>>620469
Based Mohammed, knew that religion was all about subjugating others unto your yoke.
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>>620444
>Muslim
>Literally means one who submits
>Master morality

Ebin
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>>620543
If you have to submit to anyone but the highest, you're masterfully deceived.
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>>620536

But if Jesus was simply God's messenger, than surely he doesn't have the authority to abrogate the laws of Moses. (Deuteronomy 13 that I keep seeing getting thrown around on the religion threads). In that case, aren't you guys all just Jews who aren't playing by the rules? What's left for Catholicism?
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>>620507

His core message that Jesus' death and resurrection lead to the Salvation of mankind, that's fine. That message of trusting in Christ, I've nothing against that obviously.

My problem with Paul is that a lot of the anti-female and anti-gay stuff in the bible comes from him. That's politics rather than theology. He just had to get that in there and in doing so inserted divisive side issues rather distract from theology.

>>620536
>He introduced a lot of silly ideas into Christianity like that Jesus is the son of God

I'm not going to even get into this because in one sentence you've just brushed aside the core belief of Christianity as if no one would think Jesus was the son of God unless Paul said it, when he wasn't even one of the 12 Apostles.
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MIDF: the thread
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>>620558
God forbid someone disagrees with you. My word!
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>>620554


Ahh, coolness. Sorry for the response immediately before yours, I thought that anon was you.
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>>620558
>X Internet Defense Force
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>>620554

>I'm not going to even get into this because in one sentence you've just brushed aside the core belief of Christianity

Not that guy but do you think it's possible to be a Christian and a nontrinitarian?
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>>620554
If Christianity is monotheistic, why would it need a trinity to begin with? It makes more sense that Christ as a messenger was divinely inspired by God rather than him being sent down in God's image. The focus is ultimately worship of God, you shouldn't have to intercede through anyone or anything to be in connection with Him. I've personally never understood this.
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>>620562
Go make a dua for your pedo prophet, Abdul.
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>>620572

You pray to God not Muhammad brother.
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>>620574
Did I imply otherwise?
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>>620549
>What's left for Catholicism?

What do you mean? It's just about monotheism. Why would you want it to be unique if the message is ultimately the same?
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>>620572
>[Insert Year]
>Not knowing people pray to God and not Muhammad

>>>/pol/
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>>620580

I'm saying that implicit in your position is a notion that Catholicism (and really, all of Christianity) is fundamentally Judaism, except where you apparently have to execute Jesus because he advocated permanent alteration of the Mosiatic Law.

That seems a little inconsistent.
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>>620581
Retard, where did I even say that? Ask God not to burn Mo's hairy ass as hard in Hell.
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>>620583
It's an innovation in the religion and nothing more. Jews weren't ready to accept a Jew that knew their faith better than they did. That's what happens when you stray away from monotheistic values.

I look at it this way: Judaism was about self-preservation, Christianity was about salvation and Islam was about submission. They all work in an operable series. Except each schism has different interpretations of the same idea: which is worshiping the one and only God, which is ultimately their message. You can take out all important figures of any of the three faiths and the principle still applies.
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>>620452
What is your ethnicity?
Not being a dick, genuinely curious.
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>>620593

Uh, have you ever read the Gospels? I'm a fedora tipper, and even I know things like divorce and the dietary laws, he (or at least the Jesus figure of the Gospels, which might or might not be the Jesus of reality, should a historical Jesus exist), he's pretty explicitly going "Yeah, I know that this is the law that Moses handed down, but STAHP DOIN IT GUISE!"

Plus, I mean, Jesus makes several scriptural errors. That bit about the showbread consumption by David, for instance.
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>>620598
White, but not a convert. My grandparents converted to Islam as did my father and my mother followed. What does that have to do with anything, though?
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>>620570
>Not that guy but do you think it's possible to be a Christian and a nontrinitarian?

Y-yes, but only when we're using the broadest definition of "Christianity". Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are I guess what you'd call "fringe" Christians. Every other major Christian church accepts the Trinity.

>>620571

Praying to Christ isn't interceding through him to get to God. Christ is God, The Father is God and the Holy Spirit are all God simultaneously. When you pray to Christ, you are praying to God.

>It makes more sense that Christ as a messenger was divinely inspired by God rather than him being sent down in God's image

You have to throw every about the Messiah and salvation and redemption in order for that to line up, and to me Christian compassion and believe if forgiveness is absolutely key to the faith.

You seem to have a very Muslim-centric view/view aligned with the Muslim concept of Jesus, are you Muslim?
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>>620469
Based Thomas
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>>620612
Agnostic. Parents were lapsed Catholics. I don't personally agree with a lot of Islamic beliefs, but their idea of Jesus being a prophet is the most palatable. From what I've read they see him as Messiah for the end times who will reappear to fight Dajjal who's basically a faux messenger or messiah, or something of that like. But Jesus still a prophet. and if anything still holds the hefty burden of signaling the end times and saving Muslims. Don't see why he can't be both.
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>>620587

If he believes that Muhammad is a messenger of God and a man of righteousness, why would he pray that he doesn't burn in hell?

I wouldn't go around calling people retarded with logic like that.
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>>620625
Because it's true?
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>>620622

Not that guy, but since you brought up Islamic eschatology, what do you think about the claim being put out by various Evangelical groups that the Mahdi and the Christian Antichrist are the same person?
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>>620606
You dont usually see too many white muslims is all. It doesn't have to do with anything or your points.

If anything I agree with you.
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>>620642
They're very similar, if not the same figure. Jesus appears, defeats the anti-messianic figure and officiates the end times. The only difference is that Muslims don't believe Jesus was crucified but ascended by God and will mark the Second Coming in the same way Christians believe the Second Coming will mark the end times but Jesus died on the cross.

I would say the only major difference is how the Antichrist will look like and when it will appear.
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>>620642
>Evangelicals

Who isn't the anti-Christ according to them?
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>>620666
There are a lot more than you think, I can tell you this surely.
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>>620672
Where can I meet some? I'm a revert myself and am frustrated by the cultural diffusion in Islam. There are so many uneducated "ethnic" Muslims who treat it like a label.
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>>620622
Quran calls him God's Word in one of the verses though.That would mean that he's God's manifestation, wouldn't it?
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>>620696
Source?

God doesn't manifest, though "His" Word manifests in people (Prophets).
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>>620666
Wait, you actually believed him? LOL
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>>620687
Depends on where you're location. I know a lot of converts have meetings together to discuss their stories and interfaith relations and what not. I'm in the Midwest and I grew up with mostly ethnic Muslims. But there are a lot of white Muslims who you wouldn't suspect but see at the mosque sometimes.

I still prefer to attend mosques with different backgrounds
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>>620705
Forgot to add I live near St. Louis and there are a of Bosnian, Albanian and ethnic Russian Muslims here (converts, not Chechnyan).
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>>620698
4:171
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>>620432
this is satire, surely?
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>>620712
>O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a *messenger* of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from *Him*. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.

Fairly straightforward.
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>>620722
Why is he called God's Word? That's something more than a prophet.
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>>620452

>(before you say the Kaaba is worshiped, it's the land that it's on. The house of God ha sbeen rebuilt many times over the last few centuries; also no, we don't worship the black stone that sits with it either. That's just a centerpiece)

I always felt that the whole deal with the Kaaba and Hajj was that Muhammad felt the need to keep Mecca as a centre for pilgrimage in a post-pagan Arab context.

I can see how important this was for him from a political and economic perspective at the time, but I've never been convinced that this was something that God would actually care about.
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>>620705
Of course I have nothing against them, but there are barely any open reverts where I'm from. I dress the same as I always did, act the same in public, and researched practically entirely on the internet (with help from one person), so I'm sure there are plenty of Crypto-Muslim reverts.

The only mosque near me is also Qadiani, and literally everyone but the Imam is Pakistani.

>>620712
Well the word which translates to "His Word" is wakalimatuhu, which means "word, speech, command, agreement, common term" depending on the nuance.
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>>620725
God gave Jesus His word. Jesus isn't literally God's Word. The "excess" in that verse is the belief that Jesus was sent down as God. This is not true. He was sent down by God, as a messenger of God, and given God's word to speak of. The important part is "do not say the Three" or the Trinity, because Jesus is not God. He is simply God's messenger, and all His messenger's are given His word.
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>>620729
The verse says "His word". Muhammad fucked up with this one.

>>620728
What's the nuance here?
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>>620725
It's not a meme, either. When you literally go word-by-word through the Qu'ran in Arabic with a dictionary on hand, things that you never thought of when reading it in translation start clicking every word.
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>>620725
Maybe a fault in translation? Arabic is incredibly archaic. I'm just guessing here, I'm not the person you're replying to. I'm a 'lapsed muslim', I come from a Moroccan background. The general consensus in islamic eschatology is that no prophets were divine. In many hadith Muhammed specifically bitches at people for worshiping him or 'idol worshiping' anything.

The claim that Muhammed never did any miracles is false too by the way. It's a major argument that Christians use against Islam, that their prophet did not perform any. In the Quran nothing is stated but in Hadith he does. Keep in mind Hadith is highly questionable and was written at least a hundred years after his death, most are stories of the prophet and his companions and some obviously serve a political purpose at the time.

Make no mistake, Muhammed was a warlord. I do think he was benevolent by warlordish standards for sure, whether out of practicality or because he was a pious person. I think he is one of the most amazing figures in history, and one of the most influential.
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>>620736

That's not exactly surprising. You have no idea how annoying Christians who try to say something about the OT when they don't know a lick of Hebrew are.
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>>620726
The principle is in the command that God ordered Muhammad for it to be worshiped towards; which is a key point because it isn't "to" but in the direction of. The political background certain adds some historical insight as to why it was chosen, but it is reminded to us that Abraham build the structure as a House of God and an angel provided him the black stone (aka the meteorite) which he would place near the Kaaba as remembrance of God. He builds another rock, which Muslims believe, along with the black stone, are the only two remaining authentic parts of the Kaaba, which is why they are placed there.
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>>620735
Moot point. His with a capital always refers to Allah within the Quran.
>His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers.
God's word which God directs to Mary to create a soul (AKA Jesus) from God (AKA the Virgin Birth). So believe in God and God's messengers.

Not that hard to understand.
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>>620744
>His with a capital always refers to Allah within the Quran
? That's exacty what I was talking about.
Jesus still is Allah's Word. Muhammad fucked up with this verse. He could've worded this much better.
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>>620740
Oh believe me I do, bro. That's practically every modern Christian apologist in a nutshell, except for the few that have conversational Ivrit Hadasha if you get me.
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>>620748
Prophets are literally God's mouthpieces. This is a core belief of Islam.

That's when they're speaking for God and not personally, of course.
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I know a lot of Christians and Jews just care about tradition and muh last blood sacrifice but I don't understand how anyone can still seriously be a Muslim this day in age with all we know about Judaism's origin and the origin of Ramadan and the Kaaba and all that.

Worship of the Jewish god was a home grown Canaanite pagan movement and gradually shifted to sole worship of Yahweh. All these Islamic traditions that unsurprisingly have pagan Arab roots are just kinda swept under the rug. If you're a cultural Muslim then whatever but iirc believing everything about the Quran is necessary for being a Muslim and that jazz about everyone being born a Muslim for most. Just interesting.
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>>620748

He doesn't just say he's a word from God. He also says he's a spirit from God (ruhun minhu).
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>>620751
Why aren't other propets called "His word"? That verse is the only instance of such a title
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>>620748
Jesus brought the message. He isn't the message himself. The same applies for all prophets before and after him.
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>>620758
The verse says he's (a?) word OF God
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>>620763
That's why it's shocking that he's called "His word". Like I said, Muhammad fucked up with this verse.
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>>620764
Nowhere in the 4:171 does it mention Jesus being "a" word of God. He was given God's word. I'm not really sure what you're arguing about at this point, since the rest of the verse explicitly states that God is above having a son and he has no equal.
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>>620769
It says that Jesus is "His Word". And it's literally the only time someone is called like that in the whole Quran.
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>>620765
"His" refers to God AKA Allah. Not Jesus. Jesus' name is only mentioned once in the verse and that's being the Messiah and son of Mary. Muhammad didn't fuck up because he didn't author the Quran. He was divinely inspired and given God's message exactly as it was sent to him. So these are Allah's words and not Muhammad's.
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>>620780
>"His" refers to God AKA Allah. Not Jesus.
I've never claimed "His" referred to Jesus.
The verse calls him God's Word ("His word"). It's the only time someone is called like that in the Quran. Which makes one think that Jesus is more than a prophet. Muhammad clearly could've worded the verse much better.
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>>620777
No, it says "His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at command] from Him..." which is in regards to God giving Mary a virginal birth through his own command. I mean, anon, it's not that hard. You also seem to be ignoring the rest of the verse.
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>>620787
>It's the only time someone is called like that in the Quran. Which makes one think that Jesus is more than a prophet.
Not at all.
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>>620788
That would mean that Adam is also God's Word, no? Yet he's never called that.
I'm saying that Muhammad fucked up.

>make up a verse about Jesus being just a prophet
>call him God's Word
The guy prolly was having a bad day or something.
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>>620777

Take it in its full context. Jesus is described as "His word that was conveyed to Mary."

His word, in this context, means his commanding of Jesus into existence (he said, "Be!" and Jesus was created as an embryo). That the word was conveyed onto Mary is meant to symbolise the immaculate conception.

Mohsin Khan's translation will probably help you understand what is meant by this verse the most:

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=171
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>>620793
Which sentence is that supposed to answer? If the first one I demand proofs.
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>>620796
See
>>620794
Adam would be "God's Word" too then. Yet he's never called like that.
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>>620759
Because Islam is Christian fanfiction and he had to find a way to get Christians to convert, and making Jesus just another prophet wasn't the best way to go about so he gives him a cool title and calls it a day.
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>>620798

Presumably the second. The sentence you're debating literally starts with "The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah..."
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>>620796
>immaculate conception.
Side note, this term refers to MARY'S conception, not Jesus'. Jesus' is called the Incarnation.
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>>620809
That's exactly why Muhammad fucked up. Jesus.
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>>620812

Thank you for point this out - I was completely ignorant of this.
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>>620815
>don't understand the context of a verse
>wew lads, Muhammad fucked up big time, right guys
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>>620822
I understand the context. Muhammad fucked up.
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>>620737
Well yeah he also said that we should drink camel piss in hadith. So I wouldn't say that the claim is *false*.
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>>620435
but Christianity doesn't say its a "religion of peace" merely that Christ is the "Prince of Peace"
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>>620728
Sounds like you're in the UK. Could be completely wrong, though. Best you continue staying away from the Qadiani mosque. I'll pray that you find a community near you steadfast. Have patience and faith, brother. It took me years to find people just like me. I thought I never would.
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>>620737
As a Muslim, I wish a lot of people, especially Muslims, studied Hadith sciences and understood their inherent value to the Sunnah.
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>>620803

>Adam would be "God's Word" too then. Yet he's never called like that.

See Quran 3:59. Jesus' creation is likened to Adam's creation from God's word there.
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>>620845
>but Christianity doesn't say its a "religion of peace"
neither does Islam IIRC
it's a fairly recent thing, started by Bush
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>>620845

>but Christianity doesn't say its a "religion of peace" merely that Christ is the "Prince of Peace"

Does Islam itself claim to be a religion of peace? That always struck me as a meme from the modern era.
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>>620856
Exactly. That's why it's interesting that Muhammad never calls Adam "God's Word" in the Quran.
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>>620859
Islam just comes from the root word of s-l-m (Salam, Shalom, etc) which roughly has its roots in peace and safety (i.e. may peace be upon you or Asalaamulalaikum). But the word Islam means to submit. It just has a root word from the peace. It doesn't actually explicitly state to be a religion *of* peace.
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>>620861

I disagree. Moses is uniquely referred to as "Kalimullah" (the one who talks to God) in the Quran. This doesn't mean that Muhammad thought Moses was the only prophet who talked to God. The fact that a certain title might be uniquely used for one prophet doesn't mean that it represents something completely unique about them.
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Its not a religion of peace.
Neither in the texts, nor in practice.
The text is what ISIS would write. They are right, and gods peaceful heroes. But they have to defend themselves against the ungodly masses with gods blessing.
Any moderation it has is due to outside influence, never from within.
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>>620884
Do me a favor and find the sample size of that study so you can dismiss yourself from this discussion. It also doesn't help that people took those numbers and conflated them proportionately. People like you are making stats into the new clickbait.
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>>620881
Can we really call this a title though? The verse says "His word" and not "God's Word" and it's the only instance of this "title".
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>>620896
You sound upset

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/
>The survey involved a total of more than 38,000 face-to-face interviews in 80-plus languages. It covered Muslims in 39 countries, which are divided into six regions in this report – Southern and Eastern Europe (Russia and the Balkans), Central Asia, Southeast Asia, South Asia, the Middle East and North Africa, and sub-Saharan Africa.
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>>620817
Hey, even Christians screw it up sometimes.
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>>620896
>>620912
Thanks for asking and thanks for answering.

Also can someone explain to me why the muslims have their own nato, the OIC? And how does noone know that the 57 islamic member states of the OIC signed a document redefining human rights to exclusively mean Sharia Law. And Saudi Arabia, as the leader of the UN human rights council sees its expressed purpouse as implementers of Sharia?

"all rights and freedoms mentioned are subject to the Islamic sharia, which is the declaration's sole source"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Rights_in_Islam#Religious_features
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>>620622
>
you are not fooling anyone Ahmed
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>>620936
Why does the UN continue to exist?
It's become a complete parody of itself
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>>620936

The OIC is nothing close to being a Muslim NATO.

That Cairo Declaration looks pretty shitty tho. I wonder whether it actually holds any sway in countries that have ratified it.
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>>620936
>38,000 Muslims
>global population estimate of 1.6 billion
>because 36% of 38,000 believe in death for apostasy, I'm allowed to conflate that 36% of all Muslims believe this in apostasy
>because Sharia should rule (implying that's a bad thing since it only applies for Muslims) and 67% of 38,000 people say so, clearly 67% of all Muslims want this
>implying wives shouldn't obey their husbands

Can't believe you genuinely believe in proportional adjustment. Thanks for reaffirming my belief in stats becoming a meme.

>implying 3/4 things above are bad
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>>620978
Meant for >>620912
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>>620978
>implying wives shouldn't obey their husbands

Why? Why shouldn't it be the other way around, or why shouldn't they be equals?
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>>620978
Three out of four of those things are fucking bad (actually, four out of four). Anybody with an ounce of self interest and basic human empathy should be against them.
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>>620976
The actual heads of state attend those conventions and sign those documents. Not some representatives.
And >>620884
looks quite consistent with what their documents say.
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>>620375
>Also is Islam truly a religion of peace why or why not?

Absolutely not.

Islam is probably the most violent of the three Abrahamic religions in terms of literary content.

There's nothing like the Synoptic Gospels in Islam; it's all pillaging, conquering, assassinating, murdering, and war.
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>>620978
Thats the best you got? Just straight up deny evidence and question all statistics?
"Science&math are not real because i know i'm right"
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>>620380
>warlord

What Warlord? Every nation has a Commander in Chief. Muhammad was the head of the Muslim Army. Just as Obama is the head of the US Army. Or literally anyone that has ever led an army in history.

get out /pol/
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>>621089
>be cowardly goat fucker
>preach peace, acceptance, and love
>get faced with a decision
>trust in God and what you believe in and maybe die for what you preach, or resort to violence

Jesus died for what he believed in.
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>>621066
Since when did 38,000 people represent 1.62 billion? Or are you just playing the "muh facts" meme on me because the statistic clearly isn't objective enough?

If I interview 38,000 smokers if they liked color purple first before others, and 34% said yes, are you really telling me that 340 million smokers of the estimated just under one billion prefer the color purple to all colors? Congrats, you played yourself.
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>>621089
Just that he was a Chief in medieval times and did exactly what you'd expect. And if you immitate that today, you get isis. Slaves, murder, rape, torture, theocracy at its finest.
Praising him as anything but a medieval warlord makes you a moral imbecile.
>>
>>621097
Jesus didn't die. He's a Muslim.
>>
>>621110
>isis

Perhaps you should read some history. Muhammad is glorified for the treatment of captured soldiers. Rape/Torture are forbidden in Islam. srsly /pol/ get out
>>
>>620549
Why not? Muhammad did the same thing, and he was simply told to write some shit down.
>>
>>621105
-> http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm
input:
1600000000 population
1% error margin in result
99% certainty
result:
sample size needed:
16641

They asked twice that number of people. I'm curious to see how you respond to being proven completely wrong.
>>
>>621120

Muhammad claimed that the stuff Moses preached was really Islam and people corrupted the message over time. Whether you believe it or not, the "official" Islamic stance doesn't endorse what's in the Pentateuch.

Christianity and Jesus, on the other hand, acknowledge both the authority of eralier prophets like Moses and assert that what we have now is the same as what they taught. To simultaneously claim that and that Jesus is simply another prophet (and by definition a lesser prophet since Moses is the greatest prophet to arise in Israel, courtesy of Deuteronomy 34:10), he has no authority to be running around changing things.
>>
>>621117
Other muslims are protected, everyone else is fucked. Just like isis does it today. They don't make that shit up, its straight from the book:
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Muhammad_and_Torture
" and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died" Sahih Bukhari 4:52:261

Welcome to medieval barbarism.
Bring on your denials of "out of context, wrong translation, it was only in defense, it was for other times"
That won't change the text, or history.
>>
An arab explains why islam is shit and the west is clearly better:

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2414.htm

Former Saudi Shura Council Member Ibrahim Al-Buleihi
>>
>>621105
> first before others

You knowledge of statistics is fucking awful if you believe this since if you did this the experiment wouldn't be randomly selected or blind; it violates one of the primary assumptions of doing stats that observations have to be independent of each other.
>>
>>621136
That was for murder and theft.
>>
>>621132
I've heard this said a few times before, that he was indeed a prophet but (like Jesus too) the scriptures that wrote about him as being a prophet are unreliable because they had been corrupted. This made me think, isn't that just useless knowledge then? It's like saying, by the way, this guy Joe from Athens in the 3rd century was a good prophet, but we don't know anything about him other than he was called Joe. Unless Muhammad also reported the claimed authentic version of events of his life.
>>
Aquinas is indestructible, Jesus Christ.
He's the only philosopher that I actually trust in almost everything.
>>
>>621189
You just changed from "its totally peace and nonviolent" to "yeah but muhammed was justified in being a cunt and brutal barbarism and gratuitious violence against prisoners is ok since the other people were cunts too"
If you argue for introducing brutal mutilation into society again, that proves my point. You get medieval barbarism.
A sane even halfway ethical person would not burn peoples eyes out with heated nails. Thats a psychopathic sadist.
>>
>>621365
>brutal barbarism and gratuitious violence against prisoners is ok since the other people were cunts too

The Prophet sent Khalid bin Al-Walid to the tribe of Jadhima and Khalid invited them to Islam but they could not express themselves by saying, "Aslamna (i.e. we have embraced Islam)," but they started saying "Saba'na! Saba'na (i.e. we have come out of one religion to another)." Khalid kept on killing (some of) them and taking (some of) them as captives and gave every one of us his Captive. When there came the day then Khalid ordered that each man (i.e. Muslim soldier) should kill his captive, I said, "By Allah, I will not kill my captive, and none of my companions will kill his captive." When we reached the Prophet, we mentioned to him the whole story. On that, the Prophet raised both his hands and said twice, "O Allah! I am free from what Khalid has done."Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:628

Interesting how WikiIslam highlights the punishment of your hadith, but not the fact that people professing to be Muslims were executed for savagely murdering a simple man. Cry more, Islamophobe. May you come to your senses.
>>
>actually thinking that Christianity functions without Christ being God

How do you even make it work? I think everyone who says things like this is probably some cultural Christian. If Jesus was only a man he had zero aauthority to demand everything he did. Why would you submit your will and place your trust in salvation a human being? How can a human speak as if he was God? It's untenable. You can follow Christian values but don't call yourself religious, it just confuses the meaning of terms.

Not a christian btw., just educated about what they actually believed through history
>>
>actually thinking that Christianity functions without Christ being God

How do you even make it work? I think everyone who says things like this is probably some cultural Christian. If Jesus was only a man he had zero aauthority to demand everything he did. Why would you submit your will and place your trust in salvation a human being? How can a human speak as if he was God? It's untenable. You can follow Christian values but don't call yourself religious, it just confuses the meaning of terms.

Not a christian btw., just educated about what they actually believed through history
>>
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lel.webm
510 KB, 362x272
>>621153
>MemeriTV
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>>620571
Moreover, they call us Hetaeriasts, or Associators, because, they say, we introduce an associate with God by declaring Christ to the Son of God and God. We say to them in rejoinder: ‘The Prophets and the Scriptures have delivered this to us, and you, as you persistently maintain, accept the Prophets. So, if we wrongly declare Christ to be the Son of God, it is they who taught this and handed it on to us.’ But some of them say that it is by misinterpretation that we have represented the Prophets as saying such things, while others say that the Hebrews hated us and deceived us by writing in the name of the Prophets so that we might be lost. And again we say to them: ‘As long as you say that Christ is the Word of God and Spirit, why do you accuse us of being Hetaeriasts? For the word, and the spirit, is inseparable from that in which it naturally has existence. Therefore, if the Word of God is in God, then it is obvious that He is God. If, however, He is outside of God, then, according to you, God is without word and without spirit. Consequently, by avoiding the introduction of an associate with God you have mutilated Him. It would be far better for you to say that He has an associate than to mutilate Him, as if you were dealing with a stone or a piece of wood or some other inanimate object. Thus, you speak untruly when you call us Hetaeriasts; we retort by calling you Mutilators of God.’
John of Damascus, Fount of Knowledge, part two entitled Heresies in Epitome: How They Began and Whence They Drew Their Origin
>>
>>620558
Well /his/ is usually CIDF so this is refreshing at least.
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