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This is America in 1776. How the hell did...
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This is America in 1776. How the hell did they get access to the west coast?
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They were the only european country based on the New World.
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Louisiana Purchase and wars with Mexico, look it up
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>>606988
Westward Expansion
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Manifest Destiny
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conquering empty space is easy
t. temujin
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>>606988
They bought and conquered their way there.
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>>606988

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_evolution_of_the_United_States
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>>606988
The French pawned their share for cash, the Russians were uncomfortable being that close to Crown clay and Mexico dun goof'd when they messed with Texas
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>>607004
>contiguous USA
>empty space
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>>606988
Spain lost Louisiana (not current Louisiana, the one pic related) to France in the War of the Pyrenees, and France sold it to the US.

What stood West from Louisiana was unclaimed so the US expended freely while genociding the few natives living there
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>>607017
It really was, apart from the handful of natives that were outnumbered by an order of magnitude and what Mexican colonists were there. And ~95% of them elected to become American citizens rather than cash out and go back to Mexico.

There were a few coastal cities and missions here and there but by and large it was still wilderness - especially in the north, as that was Commanche country.
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>>607017
after smallpox swept the land something like 96% of indians died.
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>>606988
Short answer: because Spain sucked.
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We beat the shit out injuns, mexicans, and spanish. Then to let them know they are nothing but dirty whores. We left them a twenty on the night stand.
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>>606988
Summary : They buy Louisiana from the Frenchs, kick the Spanishs out of Florida and take the rest from Spics and Indians by wars or negotiations.
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>>607206
It's a very expansionist nation in short. A bit like russia.
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>>607182
It's obvious you're a deeply trouble human being, take a deep breath and control your autistic rage at the fact the dark man fucked your mom.
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there are no crimes in war son.

war itself is a crime you sometimes need to make
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>>607017

read a book nigga
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>>607265
True but all great powers were at one point or another America and Russia just were more perminent
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>>606988
They kept going west until it coast.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfoQBTPY7gk
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>>607291
>the dark man fucked your mom
More like the reverse
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>>607206
as for the "old northwest/southwest" Britain gained them in the French-Indian wars but the Natives were pissed since the French were traders and didn't really HAVE the land so a great clusterfuck happened resulting in Britain not allowing the colonists to settle on them which in turned pissed off the colonist

needless to say it was one of the many reasons America rebelled against Britain, and when they gained independence, well you can guess the rest.
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>>606992
I know this is bait but I still laughed so hard.
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Any territorial entity that big is destined to fall at some point. The only way to stave off the inevitable would be to do what the Roman empire did and split it in two right though Texas running along the plains all the way up north.
The next step would be to dissolve the current states and create new ones out of the MSAs.
The ability of like minded people to govern according to their will should provide all the checks and balances needed to prevent the breakdown of the states.
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>>607457
though history certainly shows that there's a lot of factors that America has that Rome did not

for one, Rome was beset by all sides by enemies even in the Pax Romana they had to deal with the Parthians and minor uprisings like the one in Judea. To the South of America is Mexico that hasn't caused any threat to it to the North is Cananda which shares the largest friendly border in history and to the west and east it's nothing but water, on the homefront, never mind threats there was no enemies

there's also the advanced tech, Rome was the most advanced in transportation and logistics at the time (see all roads go to rome), but it still took months for the army to go from one area all the way to the other side of the empire to suppress a rebellion, Today there's internet that can relay info in seconds, airplanes that can travel to other countries in a day, cars, trains, and other transport that can get to the other side of America in a week. We won't find ourselves disconnected from our own quite like the Romans did

Then there's the whole "unitary vs. Federal" thing. For rome you only had to conquer Rome and bam you're emperor, to any wannabe caesar that wants to do that to America they have to take over all 50 states (or at least all major cities) if they want to take the country down.

like you see Russia that lasted longer than us, has worse conditions, yet is still large as fuck, pretty much because of those reasons
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>>607545
I figure the US over time will sort of be like China where different parts might break off over several centuries and thousands of years but there will be periods of unity and generally the people all consider themselves American.
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>>607060
>Spain lost Louisiana (not current Louisiana, the one pic related) to France in the War of the Pyrenees

Wrong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Treaty_of_San_Ildefonso
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>>607457

>right though Texas

Got to hell. We'd rather secede than get cut in half.
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>>607601
Why do you think Spain was the bitch of France in 1800?
Because it lost the War of the Pyrenees in 1795.
Just because official stuff about colonies took 5 years to happen doesnt mean it didnt result from that war
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>>607457
It needs to be split in a lot more ways than just in half. Also Texas should go back to Mexico, they both deserve each other.
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>>607627
Please do, and take your educational standards with you.
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>>607705
Mow the lawn, Juan.
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>>607390

some of the people in the comments should just be shot
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>>606988

The frontier was largely bought, and we had the guns and the Will of God against the savages who weren't doing anything useful with it. Moreover, the territories were, for Europe, an series of ledger-entry-mapped abstractions, while for use they were a reality, a Meaning, a Frontier to Conquer (admittedly fairly easily).

And now it will all be lost to racial replacement and white ethnomasochism. The solace is that there is no god or anything like that, and that nothing really matters, in the long view.
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>>607715
not too often one hears "manifest destiny" in such a cheery way these days,
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>>607723

I really can't abide revisionists, westward expansion was something that was an inevitable
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>>607759
true, but you can justify any slaughter and conflict with that reason (if it succeeds that is).
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>>607804

that slaughter of all the indians meme
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>>607820
did I say "slaughter of all Indians"?
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>>607835

they surely were not slaughters, the indians were warring always

raiding one another and any hapless settlers was practically their culture
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>>606988
Westward expansion was terrible, I wish we were irrelevant again
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>>607844
depended on tribe really

the Apache were raiders yeah while tribes like the Cherokee were just pissed that they were constantly removed and relocated.
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>>606988
"Lewis and Clark"
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>>606988
Shoot some indians, back some Texans, shoot more indians, shoot some Mexicans, integrete some Texans, shoot more indians, shoot more Mexicans, shoot some more indians.
Done.
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>>607846
just want to know where we stand that's all

we all complain about this and that country chopping off heads, raping women, and gassing people, but when we are called out on doing that it's answered with "we had to it's for the good of our people!"

Even if that was the case if we were to take carving knives and carve up every man, woman, and child that are not us and we become a stronger country as a result does that make that action moral?
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>>607881

everything you said was stupid
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>>607846
Rocky Mountains Best Mountains you flatland pleb
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>>607881
How did that have anything to do with my post?
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>>606988
Because white people can do anything
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>>607900
tl;dr: westward expansion is terrible despite the fact it made us big, rich, and powerful

we should probably avoid such actions in the future despite it's benefits.
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>>607916

why is it terrible?
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>>607935
pretty much the same reason what Israel is doing to Palestine is terrible (relocating, crossfire, domination, etc)

or do you think what Israel is doing to Palestine is a good thing, if so then nevermind
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>>607947

hardly comparable
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>>607457
>Any territorial entity that big is destined to fall at some point.

Nah

here is the thing:

1) America's two party system is what keeps our giant nation woven together. People from opposite ends of the continent can vote for same parties, instead of local or regional third parties, and that's one of the many things which keeps American together


2) Instead of concentrating on our east coast, and thus dooming our central, southern, and western borders, Americans spread across. This strengthens the nation. As a people group, even back to our cavemen days, you never want to concentrate in one location, but spread out and gain more territory

Los Angels, Houston, Chicago, Miami, and New York City are America's most populous cities. Notice their locations on the map: all of them are spread out from each other.

Combine 1 and 2 and you get why America is still together. If either 1 or 2 goes away....then you may be right.
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>>607390

it's a cute way of explaining to children that economic and social pressures prompted America to expand westward. isn't getting elementary aged children interested in history more important than telling them americans are evil expansionist murderers?
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>>607457
Nah
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>>606988
1. Every time the US came across natives they were living in a Mad Max style post apocalyptic state of war due to our European diseases wiping them out as our traders and explorers moved ahead of the main group of settlers. This made them easy to be dismissed as savages and killed.
2. Great Britain screwed up their policies after the French and Indian / Seven Years War causing colonists to say "fuck this shit" and start the westward expansion.
3. Local long term population boom, immigrants, and dirt cheap land.
4. Napoleon, Louisiana Purchase, and more Mad Max natives.
5. Texas and the souring of relations with Mexico. By this point the idea of Manifest Destiny had really set in and the US was GOING to get that land and fuck everything in the way. The Mexican government didn't know wtf they were doing.

BOOM, CURRENT US
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>>607952
in both cases the citizen would declare the land the native living on it there's and if there is any resistance the country would send their army to make it so and relocate them

then use the fact that the natives are attacking to justify it

>>607963
yep, history should first tell the impact of the event first and save the gory details for later

my only gripe is that the full-grown adults of 4chan are trying to outright deny said gory details (they're still kinda important).
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>>607916
>We should probably avoid such actions in the future despite it's benefits.
If pussies like you took 30 % the population of a country, sooner or later it will collapse or be invaded by the neighbor country.
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>>607972
>my only gripe is that the full-grown adults of 4chan are trying to outright deny said gory details (they're still kinda important).

No one is doing this

and no, Palestine/Israel is nothing like the USA...lmao.
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>>607975
Look if we didn't make morality a factor at all I would be ok with this
we fought, we killed, we expanded, DEAL WITH IT

problem is when someone else does it suddenly THEY are the assholes should be brought to justice

just looking for consistency that's all
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>>607963

yes, but your modern offendist has to take every page of our history as some vile intention of evil
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>>607984
>No one is doing this

>why is it terrible?
>implying there was nothing terrible about it

dey dinnin du nuffin
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>>607989
>problem is when someone else does it suddenly THEY are the assholes should be brought to justice

Typically, in modern times, they are. The USA is a different case altogether. I don't consider any one an asshole who wanted to expand to the West. Why should I? It was a land that had been separated from the world, its entire population was seemingly evaporating, and it was basically up for grabs There was little help the Americans could do for the Native Americans, and they certainty tried with schooling and such. It's Game Theory: you take the American land, or some other nation eventually takes it. Better to take it than have someone else take it
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>>607995
Who are you quoting in that second part?
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Screwed the Natives, Spanish , and then just by it. Then sprinkle in manifest destiny.
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>>608001
this guy >>607935
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>>608005

>implying the spanish were not most worthy of the "screwing"
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>>607989
Chinese communists don't give a fuck about moral or reason, if they want to take a land, they come and take it. I bet you would try to say reasons to those guys if they decided to invade your country and make your people their slaves... which is funny and stupid.
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>>607989
>just looking for consistency that's all
It's not consistent enough for you that the indians practiced that level of brutality as well? There was never any question whatsoever of their victory no matter how hard they fought, but guess what - life isn't fair.
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>>608026
and on the logic that life isn't fair and losers are losers than it's all good

problem is we start pitying the losers when it's not us that are the winners
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>>607439
It's true.
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>>608044
what about, you know, our hat?
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>>606999

Pretty much this. Napoleon sold his empire to the US rather than fighting Americans for it. Then the US fought a war with Spain (much like Napoleon tried to do as well). By 1865 the US had the Transcontinental Railroad, and effectively had unified access to both asian and euro markets. By 1900 America had already become imperialist and was taking over the south pacific.

Thus the new world came to be dominated by the USA forever.
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>>607457

It won't happen, the Founders were smart enough to include state's rights and thus decentralize power enough where nobody will want to split off.
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>tfw maine used to be part of MA at some point

Just fuck my clay up
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>>607916
>>607935
>>607947

>westward expansion is terrible despite the fact it made us big, rich, and powerful
We let our wealth and power corrupt us as a nation; I don't give a damn about the bushniggers. Our Republic, our values, and our culture would have been much better off if we hadn't expanded Westward. The bigger they are, the harder they fall
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>>606988
Most Natives were already slaughtered by the Spanish and Germs of Mass destruction and centuries of wars with Frogs and The Eternal Anglo
And The Mexicans mexicaned
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>>607958
Miami is smaller than Philadelphia, Dallas, DC, and maybe Atlanta metros
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>>607291
Lay off the listerine bud.
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France gave it Louisiana.

Truly America was pretty much built by France.
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So why did Manifest Destiny take the form it did? Why current borders and not all of Mexico? Why not try to attack to UK and take Canada?
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>>612227
They pretty much tried those. Taking Canada failed in 1812, and for Latin America they realised it was better to run it as a proxy empire. Don't forget Latin America was essentially ruled by American corporations enforced by American military until a series of communist revolutions put an end to it in the latter half of the 20th century.
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>>612227
>All Mexico
Anglos believed spaniards and mestizos would taint their precious WASP nation.

>2/3 Mexico
Slavery would extent all the way down to central Mexico.

1/2 Mexico (as irl)
Good enough for everyone.
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>>612227

>Why not try to attack to UK and take Canada?
Because we didn't want to get involved with a third land war against Great Britain in the span of 75 years.

I mean, if the Mexican government hadn't been a revolving-door shitshow that was too incompetent to just sell us the fucking land we wanted (almost everything but Alta California was essentially worthless to them - too dry for farming, too western for trading, few natural resources of note and the natives fucking their shit up 24/7) then we might have gone to war over the Oregon Country but if that happened then we might not have gotten Alaska because the main reason that Russia sold it to us was to act as a buffer between them and the Crown. We actually did still pay them a pretty hefty chunk of cash for the clay we annexed as well as paying off their debt to anyone who chose to become a US citizen (fun fact: most of the people affected by the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo were either wealthy landowners or continental yuro pioneers shoved to the frontier) and promising to stop the indian raids.
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>>608251
>Then the US fought a war with Spain
They fought a war with mexico. The war with spain came muuuch later
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>>608255
The current state demarcations are based on antiquated land deeds, this is proving to be problematic as many municipalities feel underrepresented by the central government of their states. Metropolitan statistical areas correlate more closely to the political stances of the populace.
Splitting the country in two would be to ease the burden of responsibility over a such a large landmass on one central government. Instead there could be two autonomous states that start off with the same constitution holding their own elections keeping open borders with military and economic cooperation between both sides.
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>>607265
> It's a very expansionist nation in short. A bit like russia.

I don’t think that’s accurate as it applies to the U.S.

Absolutely nobody was going to leave bazillions of unexplored acres to assbackward stone age Indians, wilderness areas were considered “wastelands” until someone moved in and started farming, building towns, etc.

For the Americans of the time, they didn’t see it as “expansionist” behavior but simply putting the land to good use.

Sucked for the Indians of course, but had the historical moccasin been on the other foot, the Indians would have wiped out stone age Europeans in the same manner, as evidenced by the “expansionist” behavior of the Mayans, Aztec and Incas.
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>>607017
It is mostly empty space to this day.
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>>612855
No one cares how you justify it to yourself.
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>>612855
>Sucked for the Indians of course, but had the historical moccasin been on the other foot, the Indians would have wiped out stone age Europeans in the same manner, as evidenced by the “expansionist” behavior of the Mayans, Aztec and Incas.

There's actually pretty ample evidence for genocide among native populations all the way from south America to the arctic circle. Hell, the lion's share of post-Columbian Native American history is various and sundry tribes trying to enlist the help of Europeans to displace or destroy other tribes. What happened to them was like a middle-school baseball team being randomly selected to play the Yankees; there was really no other way that was ever going to end.
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>>612874

It was perfectly normal _human_ behavior to take over "wasteland" like that, (even if there were a handful off primitives living there) it was not unique to Euro-Americans.
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>>606988
By being made up of the dominant, most advanced species on the planet and being meant to conquer it.
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>>607969
>they were living in a Mad Max style post apocalyptic state of war due to our European diseases wiping them out as our traders and explorers moved ahead of the main group of settlers

huh, never thought of it that way
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>>607457
The main difference between the US and Rome being the infinitely better and faster human and information flux transportation. Charlemagne couldn't expand more because he had reached the maximum level of land his technology allowed him to effectively maintain under control. The US doesn't need to worry about roads being cut off by bandits, stopping the transfer of messengers -- they also have a highly educated population who can communicate anywhere in the world instantly, thus killing the space and time limitations of pre-contemporary world.

I still agree we should partition the US but just because I like drawing borders.
t. /gsg/
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>>612973
>The US doesn't need to worry about roads being cut off by bandits

Speaking strictly hypothetically and with no intent whatsoever to leave that realm in any capacity, destroying a few dozen bridges could effectively cripple the US economy. From the Ohio river to the gulf of Mexico - a stretch of about a thousand miles - there are only 20 or so highway crossings of the Mississippi. And if we're talking about military usage, that's even more tenuous as they'd have to bring heavy equipment over via train if the big bridges were out and derailing a train is a goddamn party trick as far as acts of terror are concerned. Hell, you can even buy a portable, clamp-on derailer - paint it black and they'd never even see it coming, not that they could stop anyway. For extra fun, stick it just after a bridge on a rural section with high speed and/or on a curve.
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>>613033
>destroying 30-50 bridges simultaneously is easy
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>>608051
>Canada
>country
>independent in 1982
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>>613097
First of all, who said anything about "simultaneousy"? And relatively speaking, it is fairly easy. Bridges, especially in more rural areas, aren't very well guarded and it's not hard to set an extended timer for a bomb. If you had three two-man teams each wiring a bridge every day (a generous assessment), they could be done with the motor traffic bridges in a week and the rail bridges in a similar timeframe.
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>>607690
Spain was a bitch of France since 1715
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>>614119

France sucks at managing bitches then:
>The Treaty of The Hague (also known as the Treaty of Den Haag) was signed on 17 February 1720. The treaty ended the War of the Quadruple Alliance, a conflict that arose between King Philip V of Spain and an alliance of Great Britain, France, Austria and the Dutch Republic.
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>>614164
>sucks managing bitches
>wins the war to keep his bitch calm

M8...
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>>607998
>It was a land that had been separated from the world, its entire population was seemingly evaporating, and it was basically up for grabs
It was easy to take so annexing their land doesn't make you an asshole? That only happens if you successfully annexed difficult territory?
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>>612855
>American wasn't expansionistic because it's neighbours were weak
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>>607984
The situation is the same
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>>608017
How so?
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>>607017
It is when the natives have sucky immune systems and your settlers have the sniffles.
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>>614089
Technically they are still a constitutional monarchy. Guess which monarchy.
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>>612855
It was exactly like Russia.
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>>608251
>By 1865
1869
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>>606988
MANIFEST DESTINY, LONG LIVE AMERICA, FROM SEA TO SHINING SEA
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Daily Reminder that the only right to land that anyone has is there ability to defend it.
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Well it did take about 100 years...
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>>606988
First, they defeated the British.

Second, they withstood diplomatic bullshittery against Europe.

Third, they had superior economy, population growth, infrastructure, and trade in comparison to the inhabitants of the land they recieved during the Louisiana purchase.

Fourth, they defeated Mexico and cut off their access to the west.

Fifth, They made it clear they would do so very early on. It was one of the reasons that the British wanted to get control of the colonies, because English Americans were encroaching and plannning to expand into Native lands.

Also, slave labor made it possible to achieve a lot of the economic stuff in a short amount of time or in great profitability.

tl;dr the only people defending, the natives, were objectively inadequately equipped to deal with european expansion
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>>614119
Yeah, but they ceased to be when France behead its king
Then they got defeated in the War of the Pyrenees and came back to France's bitch statut
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>>607627
This is why you have 2 senators when you could have 10. Keep enjoying your memes about being big though.
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>>607060
That's why in 1823 there are still French dudes messing around the country and The Revenant is awesome because it gives them a part.
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>>612855
>Absolutely nobody was going to leave bazillions of unexplored acres to assbackward stone age Indians, wilderness areas were considered “wastelands” until someone moved in and started farming, building towns, etc.

It's like, say... people conceive of an Empire as "everything within the borders".
Truth is, Empires were mostly networks, and only nowadays we have full territorial control.

So, think of the Roman empire. It ceased being an Empire as soon as you left the main road and acres of cultivated land.
Google tells me at its peak Roman Empire had roughly 60 million inhabitants.
Assuming the estimate is correct, you can imagine the Roman Empire as a net stretching all over Europe and the Mediterranean and NOT as a solid country like France, Germany or Italy or Spain are nowadays.

So, basically, let's get rid of the idea of Empires as huge patches of land and think of them as huge networks.
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>>616831
Okay, the map is on paintbrush and looks a bit bogus.
But it clearly shows my point.
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>>606988
God's will
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>>612163
Wrong. City of Miami proper is smaller than those, but Miami-Dade county, which is effectively "Miami" to the world and locals, is massive in population. Miami-Dade and neighboring Broward are highly Balkanized and cut into a million municipalities but call a spade a spade: it's Miami.

Source: Lifelong Miamian.
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>>607291
>the dark man fucked your mom
Nice one, Johnny Firewater.
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>>616559
So the north korean government has a right to their land, and the lord's resistance army has a right to theirs?

And Hitler had a right to the third reich for it's duration up to 1945?
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>>616831
This is an extremely interesting concept, thanks.

So the way we tend to visualise all these maps of old empires is actually very erroneous.
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>>618349
God willed Americans to slaughter countless Native Americans?
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>>619007
yes
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>>612163

I wouldn't call Dallas Metro. I'm in South Dallas right now (Oak Cliff).
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