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Why isn't the Ottoman Empire considered...
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

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Why isn't the Ottoman Empire considered the Third Rome?
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>>606014
Because they have literally nothing to do with Rome other than saying "We Roman nao".
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>>606014

Because the Byzantines themselves were barely even Roman anymore by 1453. The senate (the S in SPQR) had ceased to exist even in name for over a century by the time the Turks knocked down the door.
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Because they weren't Romans.
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>>606045
The Byzantines were Romans culturally, and referred to themselves as Romans as an ethnicity.
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They took the capital of the Roman Empire and took the title of Roman Emperor by right of conquest, what more do you need?
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>>606055
They were not remotely Roman culturally lol wtf. Not by language, not by religion, not by art...
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>>606067
They were Greek Romans, just as there were Latin, Gaulish, Punic, Celtic, etc. Romans. The fact they spoke Greek has no contradiction with being Roman at all, especially when most upper-class Romans throughout the empire spoke Greek.
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>>606055

Well they didn't do a very good job at maintaining the Roman state or its defining features.

"Second Rome" "Third Rome" etc refer to states, not cultures
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>the first Rome was Trojan
>the third Rome was Turkish
it's like poetry
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>>606057

IIRC none of Mehmed II's successors used the Imperial title for themselves. It died with him.
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>>606014
Just cause Mehmed says, WE ROMANS NOW doesn't mean shit, the Germans have been calling themselves romans since Charlemagne.
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Turks don't even have an identity

They are Turkic speaking Anatolians, Iranics, Greeks and Armenians, who can't claim a legitimate ethnic identity because they were so cucked in the past.
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>>606067
The hell are you talking about? Romans emulated the heck out of the Greeks, and the Byzantines got their state religion from the Roman Empire
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>>606014

Rome died when Russia fell to the reds.
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>>606231
>tfw The Eternal Altaic destroyed all Three Romes
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>>606231
Ottoman empire outlived the Russian empire by a few years.
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>>606280
Holy shit
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>>606014
They not don't had ceramic pipeline, and especially ceramic pipeline with wine.
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I'm of the opinion that *genuine* Roman civilization slowly died out sometime in the early Byzantine era. It was long in decline, the the fall of the WRE in 476 was a huge blow. Yeah I'm aware the that Eastern Rome/Byzantines were a direct continuation of the Roman empire but I think they evolved into their own separate sort of *thing* as the centuries since the fall of the West passed by.
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>>606336
Define "genuine", because Augustus Caesar's generation would have been unrecognizable as Roman to the original founders of the city 700 years earlier, likewise would medieval ERE to Augustus. Every nation and every culture is constantly changing and evolving.
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>>606366

It became centered around the Greeks rather than the Latin speaking Italians. I think the abandonment of Latin in the Byzantine government is a pretty good transition to exemplify that. Again though, this is just my shitty opinion, I'm not really too well read on the subject.
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>>606366
You literally took the words out of my mouth, thanks now i dont have to bother
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>>606373
>It became centered around the Greeks rather than the Latin speaking Italians.
The eastern portions of the empire were always the wealthiest and most important compared to western areas like Britannia, Gaul, and Hispania. Romans were also huge Hellaboos (though it waxed and waned in different periods) and tried to legitimize themselves by saying they were descended from Trojan colonists. The upper class of the empire also almost always spoke Greek as well as Latin, and usually spoke Greek amongst themselves.
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>>606390

I'm aware of the Romans being huge hellaboos, but I think it's because I associate Rome more with the West than East
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>>606373
Justinian is normally considered a Byzantine emperor by those who use this term, and he was a latin-speaking emperor ruling over an empire that had not adopted greek as it's state language yet.
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>>606398
Which is probably because you either live in Western Europe or are descended from people from Western Europe. The West forgets that for most of Rome's existence, most of Western Europe was backwards, significantly poorer, and much less densely populated than the east or even the south in North Africa.
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>>606014
Because they aren't and neither is russia, in fact no one has a "claim" to the roman empire
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This shit is like /pol/'s "Why Hitler was so based". You're turning this board into a meme.
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DAILY REMINDER, AMERICA IS THE CURRENT ROME
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>>606014
Because they are turkroaches.
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>>606014

>Why isn't the Ottoman Empire considered the Third Rome?

Because none of its rulers claimed that it was after Mehmed II, who was an absolutely massive Romaboo.
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It doesn't matter since the title of Roman emperor fell into disuse during the 16th century. Now, the title of caliph of Islam, on the other hand...
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>>606014
Because assblasted Christians.
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>>606014
Because "X Rome" isn't an empire or state, it's a city.

Constantinople was the Second Rome because it was founded by a Roman Emperor to be the second capital of the Roman Empire.

The Byzantine Empire wasn't the "Second Rome," it was just Rome. The Roman Empire lost territory in the 5th century, and even more in the 7th century, and even more in the 11th century, and so on, but it was a continuously existing state until 1453, when it was conquered and dissolved.

>b-but the empire by the 15th century wasn't recognizably "Roman"

Gosh it's almost like things change in a millennium and a half
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>>607452
>Constantinople was the Second Rome because it was founded by a Roman Emperor to be the second capital of the Roman Empire.
Byzantium was a Greek city long before Romans came around there.
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>>606968
It sure is degenerate enough to be.
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>>608074
>implying pierced freaks like that are anywhere near normal
>implying MDMA isn't awesome
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>>608074
>m-m-muh degeneracy!
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>>606014
Subhuman islamic trash are not Rome
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>>606014
Pretty sure Moscow was considered the third Rome.
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>>606014
Because they were muslims and muslims abhor everything Rome is and loves such as music, poetry, pictures of people, delicious pork, sex, good fashion, wine, women having a public life, women having rights, women enjoying themselves and their lives.
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>>606014
Because they themselves never legitimately considered themselves Romans. It was just a claim thrown in by Mehmed the Conquerer. because he was a bit of a Roman-boo and considered himself a Trojan. After that it was occasionally used as a meme by Ottoman sultans who never took it seriously- even less so than the "Holy"""Roman""" empire.. wo, are easily, even less Roman than the Turks.
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>>608074
Thanks for your opinion, /pol/. :)
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>>606188
They did though even in the letter suleyman sent to francis in the 1500's one of his titles are Kayser-i Rum.
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>>606974
Back to /int/ with you faggot

>>606014
Well OP I think they were third rome through right of conquest also turkish culture was heavily influenced by byzantine culture , the ottoman people were more or less the same populations just with a different religion and they ruled the same territory.
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>>612837
t. mehmet
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>>612840
Just fuck off already go spout your memes somewhere else.
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>>612844
t. ali
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>>612844
t. köksal
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>>606014
Turks are the Third Rome in the same way that cockroaches living in an abandoned house are the legal inhabitants.
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>>606014
>The senate (the S in SPQR) had ceased to exist
Let me guess, you're american.
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>>606280
>huns destroyed first rome
>turks destroyed second rome
>khazars destroyed third rome
fucking eternal altaic
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WE
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>>606097
>"Second Rome" "Third Rome" etc refer to states, not cultures
Not really. It's more general than that. They called themselves Roman.
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It is ethnically, culturally, and religiously completely unrelated to Rome, and their state had already existed before they conquered Constantinople. I don't know how they could ever be considered Roman.
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>>606336
How exactly was the fall of WRE in 476 a huge blow to the ERE?
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>>606407
What if I'm from Italy
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>>606219
turk here, you're kind of right.
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>>606014
If right of conquest is legit then the Ostrogoths were the second Rome all along.
Thread replies: 61
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