>>601995 >why do anything if i cam einto existence without higher purpose?
Lol you might as well just be fucking saying "why go to a soup kitchen or donate to charity? It's not like I'm the one getting fed". Learn to make your own purpose and believe in it. After all, reality is an illusion and our beliefs are subjective.
Oh, my mistake. I didn't realize that believing in talking fucking snakes, boats that can fit the entire animal kingdom,and a god that smites you for picking up a stick on a sunday was completely rational.
1. It goes to nothing in the end because you choose nothing to devote to: see next point. 2. You always fail because you're a fucking failure, you have no motivation or work ethic to get the shit done at least committing to it. 3. You're not lying to yourself, there's no truth in believing a god or higher purpose, that in itself is a delusion.
>>602145 Everyone will eventually die, and the universe will eventually reach cool homeostasis. Without some permanent goal to aspire to, why even bother? When it comes to making my own "meaning," it's not the fact that I made it that's bad. It's the fact that it, like absolutely everything else, is impermanent.
Somewhat related, but I don't understand when atheists say certain religions are inherently evil if they punish non-believers. If you don't believe in the religion, why would the punishment concern you to begin with? The concept of Hell should be as benign to you as the concept of a God. Yet people tend to use this argument to show how religions oppose those who don't believe. The whole idea is to believe; that's the point.
>>602368 A lot of people say they are athiests, but they spend so much time disproving god and explaining why religion is worthless that I question their indifference. If they ignored religion, it would go away.
Don't worry, senpai. In a few billion years I'm going to use the combined energy of several galaxies to reach back in time and transfer the consciousness of every human into a virtual world milliseconds before their death. Then, I'll tunnel through to other universes with everyone on tow so that we can all know the horrifying embrace of eternity together.
We live in an increasingly secular age. These days it is so easy to just believe in absolutely nothing. There is so much 'proof'. You know where proof comes from, however? The world around you. Use your spiritual energies to find God. Use the material world to find God. Everything exists as a result of God, and many proofs do as well.
Yeah, thinking about the ultimate fate of everything is a bummer. I choose to focus on my own life though, because whatever happens after I am dead is totally irrelevant. You can choose to either make the best of the short life that you have, or you can kill yourself. I'm not saying that to be a dick. That's really what your options boil down to.
>>602560 >in a way, it gives more sanctity and meaning than any religion could dream.
No it fucking doesn't, it makes life a giant pointless joke. It makes existence utterly and completely meaningless and the fools that think like you will always, ALWAYS, be in the minority. It will lead to depression, apathy, and destruction.
>>602590 >No it fucking doesn't, it makes life a giant pointless joke. It makes existence utterly and completely meaningless and the fools that think like you will always, ALWAYS, be in the minority. It will lead to depression, apathy, and destruction.
>>602598 That we're here and have to live with that. I don't want existence to be meaningless, I don't want there to be a giant nothing, I don't want to exist in that world and I don't want you too either
You should die, we should all just die because nothing matters.
>>602615 Because it just ends in death anyway, all our experience, all our efforts they're for naught, they're just one more flag in an endless sea of banners, an utterly redundant pointless, meaningless waste of time, waste of resources, waste of everything, all the happiness, misery, pain, joy everything a pointless waste, nothing but death as the reward, nothing but black endless nothingness we're a god damn mistake we might as well just dies now it's the same fucking difference
Why are atheists such utter cunts when confronted with an opposing viewpoint? Why to them is the only acceptable response to being presented with a pointless existence ending in a black void utter glee and appreciation?
Why isn't anger at the cosmic joke that is the accident of life equally acceptable? Are they just close minded unempathetic individuals that can't into understanding people?
>>602747 He's just a close minded asshole that can't stand opposing viewpoints and goes online to find people to feel superior to on whatever stupid topic. There's no real difference and anger at being a mistake is perfectly justifiable as is the whole 'lets make the best out of it' approach. By the same reasoning that engendered both views it's all completely pointless and thus equally valid in their pointlessness.
>>602768 >the I'm actually a giant winner and am super smart and have a super hot grilfriend and go to a super great college and will get everything I want in life meme >I'm not on a malaysian wood carving site at the wee hours of the morning because I'm a loser like the rest of you guys >h-honest
The psychedelic experience is a doorway which leads to a hallway which leads to only what you want to find within yourself.
In other terms, a drug is nothing but a high-yield (fast but not perfect) technique to reach partly what your reason and heart cannot achieve fully in your opinion. If anything, it is a total lack of confidence in your reason and in your abilities to philosophy to be at ease with life; ease which remains unlikely, given that the choice of doing these drugs with the goal of opening your awareness and opening your mind is already a sign of close-mindedness and poor ability to reflect.
>>602815 It might. I am not an expert on international laws, but if you live in Europe your drug situation is good. If you live in South America you can probably get mescaline. If you live in Australia you are fucked.
>>602842 >isn't meaningful, Subjective, why is only the meaning you attach to it important? Why are other views and interpretations, the meaning discenred through other ears not equally as important as your own?
>isn't daunting Same as above, why is only what you find daunting important? >and is a mistake in language?
>>602857 >Subjective, why is only the meaning you attach to it important? Why are other views and interpretations, the meaning discenred through other ears not equally as important as your own? Because that's tautological. You only find meaning through others via the transitive property. You decide others are important so you regard their opinions. Entirely subjective still.
>Same as above, why is only what you find daunting important? Because I've been to higher peaks and can see further than you. I won't chase this rabbit hole with you so take it or leave it.
>Explain. The way retards, Christians and stupid atheists speak always presupposes their own conclusions.
It's more important to ask whether the teleological question makes sense and in what contexts it makes sense, rather than to flip out about questions that might not have a consistent basis for them.
>>602868 Being a flagrant asshole won't convince me that what he's saying is acceptable. And what I said was a very obviously stupid point on his argument. Materialism and no intelligence behind the universe are not equivalent stances.
>>602868 This picture doesn't disprove the notion that Stalin and other such cunts did not kill because of atheism. The reason commies push atheism is because they want their people to see the state as the highest possible authority. I suppose you could argue that they killed/subjugated members of the clergy in order to promote atheism, which is true. It's still just the means to an end though.
>>602308 Its not benign because people who believe that try to impose hell on earth to people who dishonor their moral code because they legitimately believe their source of goodness is filled with spiteful vengeance and the world needs authoritarian laws and draconian punishment to impose god's order.
>>603012 Evolution is a random and mindless mess that has created beings capable of experiencing incomprehensible levels of agony for the purpose of keeping an increasingly mutated strand of molecules in existence. At least with religion there's a promise of eternal bliss. With evolution it's just pointless agony with no reward.
>>603203 >Evolution is a random and mindless No, random mutation is. Natural selection has reasonable justification.
>has created beings capable of experiencing incomprehensible levels of agony What about the incomprehensible levels of euphoria and pleasure through enlightenment? Why have people helped to collectively make average suffering decrease while pleasure has increased over time if struggle has no blissful reflection points that makes dopamine its own reward?
>>603249 >than how modest women's clothing is. Beautiful strawman. You knew I was talking about the alleged anthropocene caused by humanity's collective disrespect for their station as vice-regents of the earth.
>>603252 >I know everything You'll grow out of it. Hopefully.
>>603210 Or just end the world to make sure no one has to endure agony ever again. >>603224 The levels of euphoria do not come close to the levels of agony that exists or the levels of drudgery that exists between them. >Why have people helped to collectively make average suffering decrease while pleasure has increased over time if struggle has no blissful reflection points that makes dopamine its own reward? Most people who have struggled still believed in an afterlife of one sort or another, and the reward was not a mere dopamine rush, but either achieving eternal bliss or avoiding eternal damnation
>>603262 >Beautiful strawman. Not a strawman at all, actually. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/19/women-blame-earthquakes-iran-cleric . I didn't get your exact flavor of mystical mumbo-jumbo correct, but it was definitely the right ballpark.
Human activity contributes to weather, not earthquakes. Earthquakes can be more destructive to humans than they were in the distant past because of construction techniques and locations, but we do not cause earthquakes.
>>601977 Then think about Theology. Think about what you actually believe by Atheism, that is, that the entire universe came from nothing. It's a literal impossibiility, something can't come from nothing.
That said I'm not religious, but I'm researching the early history of the Abrahamic to see how much evidence (i.e not the Bible, etc) I can find for the possibility of any of them being true
>>603273 >I didn't get your exact flavor of mystical mumbo-jumbo correct, but it was definitely the right ballpark. Not at all. My faith can be entirely supported by reason.
>Human activity contributes to weather, not earthquakes. Earthquakes can be more destructive to humans than they were in the distant past because of construction techniques and locations, but we do not cause earthquakes. You've never heard of the Three Gorges Dam?
I guess they're just conspiracy theories and we should not take responsibility for our actions at all.
>>602842 >We have no idea what happens when we die. See you know this, but too many other atheists take on a full materialist worldview and objectively state that when you die, that's it. The fact that we literally don't know what happens after death doesn't occur to them.
>>603308 >Three Gorges Dam Accelerated existing seismic activity. If you'd like, you can say it "triggered" earthquakes that were already in development, but the dam is not the cause of earthquakes any more than the assassination of Franz Ferdinand "caused" WWI.
>>603263 >The levels of euphoria do not come close to the levels of agony that exists Yes, most people spend much more time eating good food, getting laid, or having a nice poop than they spend having a heart attack or stroke and drudgery is the result of your own lack of imagination, ambition, and self control.
The only reason they still believe and indulge in extra sensory supernatural speculation is because of the dopamine rush weak minds get just trying to conceptualize something as vague and complex as eternal bliss or eternal punishment for people you don't like.
>>603330 >Yes, most people spend much more time eating good food, getting laid, or having a nice poop than they spend having a heart attack or stroke and drudgery is the result of your own lack of imagination, ambition, and self control. In the Western world maybe. God seems to have abandoned Africa, much of Asia, the Middle East and a good deal of South America a long time ago
>>603347 It's not "cute," it's reality. If you want to revive your 90s Save The Dolphins treehugger thing, that's your business, but if you spread misinformation all you are going to do is put people off once they do more research. Human activity absolutely has an effect on the environment, but it isn't magic. Talk about burning down rain-forests for barely-fertile farmland, talk about the massive rate of habitat loss causing unprecedented rates of extinction, talk about population growth curves and carrying capacities, whatever you'd like. But the whole "science is bad, maaan~ the LHC is gonna make a big black hole and swallow us all up!" hippie bullshit poisons the whole conversation.
>>603358 >People have abandoned God. No they haven't those are some of the most devout areas in the world. Why are the peasants in these areas starving to death, shtting their guts out from diarrhea, dying of malaria, aids and ebola, is it because their human leaders are corrupt?
>>603387 Several Asian, South American, and Middle Eastern countries appear in the top 30, though, and even the lowest countries have something of a happiness level, so their lives aren't incomprehensible levels of pure agony that have been completely abandoned by goodness.
>>606445 Everyone seems to be so caught up in this idea that the answer is absolutely that their is a god or their isn't. Pantheism makes this question meaningless by placing the god status on what is reality itself. Prayer to a pantheist would be unrelated to any authority, but a deep personal connections pulled from observations distinct to an individuals life.
>>606442 How would Pantheism work? Since both the Bible and the Qu'ran insist that there is only one god, and it is theirs and the rules of theirs should therefore prevail, it could not possibly work unless you strip back and cut out some fundamental parts of both religions. Once this is done you therefore need to apply it to every religion in existence, but good luck getting a Christian to accept Scientology or the insistence that Zeus is the god king.
>>606556 I'm no expert in the fundamental rules of Christianity and Islam, and have no idea how all would turn from their dogmatic beliefs. But I can say that a pantheist wouldn't be worried about rules to follow. They would just be aware through their senses of what is going around them, and of the connections that affect both them and others.
>>606707 Usually believing in a god entails security from the thought of death. Many people crave those types of thoughts for comfort. But instead of looking at your belief as the absolute pinnacle of what is right, recognize that it is only an extension of what goes on in the entirety of your life. You only go to church for so many hours in a week, you learn some moral lessons, and you head home with some ideas to contemplate. Those ideas, if they are heartfelt can influence your life greatly, but be aware that they are only influences from the context of the church and not the whole entirety of this complex world.
>>603203 Do not divide pain and agony form pleasure. It's a false dichotomy since both are mere leanings of feeling in general towards different directions. People can sense, that is the correct statement. No matter how much better we make the world there will always be agony since it is relative. There will always be happiness as well since it is relative as well. Life is both pain and joy at the same time since the human experience includes sensing.
>>602677 I suffered exactly what you went through. I try every single day to get better and to move on with my life. I want to live and then i will die. But that is ok if i die. I realized living eternally is just horrible. More life would not make me happy. Focus on whats really bothering you anon. Get yourself out of the hole it's destructive.
>>603330 >Yes, most people spend much more time eating good food, getting laid, or having a nice poop than they spend having a heart attack or stroke and drudgery is the result of your own lack of imagination, ambition, and self control. >says the macro-level ruling class whiteboi in an industrialized nation within the incredibly short pocket of time in which a "comfortable life" is even conceivable
Almost all of history for almost all people was almost all suffering, and it's likely it will be that way again soon as civil society fails to keep pace with exponentially rising technology and institutional development
>>612077 Why would that make someone feel better? Why wouldn't it scare you? If you want to die so badly why haven't you killed yourself? Who said anything about fighting, you can't, it happens to everything, your perspective does not matter, you were made just to be consumed and you have no idea when it will happen, but everything around you could cause it and some things are too big or small for you to even observe not to mention all the little monsters inside of you right now from all the living things you have consumed that are constantly working to end your days, how it that not dreadful?
Existence is too interesting to amount to nothing.
You can not shrug away the glory of the universe as meaningless and without beauty. I don't care if you can explain aspects of the universe, or attempt to explain its origin. You cannot deny the beauty of it all. I am without doubt that the universe was created by intelligent design. It's all too important to be declared meaningless.
It's why it astounds me that in today's time so many intellectuals are atheist.
>>612272 You were born with a terminal condition that will most definitely kill you and your only hope is to impose that condition onto someone new like life is The Ring, but everyone dies. It is not absurd to fear that at all except that you can't dread something that has already happened, you can only distress over it and dread giving birth to someone new just to prolong part of yourself.
>>601977 Op, from a scientific and evolutionary standpoint humans as a species must adapt, reproduce, and overcome. If anything strive to help your species last longer in a meaningful way. If you are somehow unable or unwilling, consider a family and instill philanthropy in your children.
>>612320 I don't see how imposing that condition on anyone provides any sort of hope, but I still see no point in finding the concept of death dreadful. It's something inescapable, and dreading it is just wasting my limited time.
>>612375 >dreading it is just wasting my limited time Define waste, time is by definition simply entropy wasting away matter, so you can't participate in the movement of time without wasting away something that is limited and pointless. In fact, the less limited your time is, the more artificial waste you personally impose on rest of the universe which might be the universe's goal anyway since the universe is actively destroying itself with incomprehensible explosions, implosions, and overall destructive wasteful power.
You sound like you're about 14 or 15. You sound like you don't have many friends or people around you can talk to. You sound like you've retreated into an artificial shell where you're the star, and you've begun to fetishize your ego.
You're not alone in this way of thinking, but I promise you that you'll grow out of it.
Please just don't end up like Ray Kurzweil, and pursue a manic, desperate attempt to escape death when really, death has nothing to do with it outside of being the inevitable dissolution of your precious ego, which is an imaginary friend to begin with.
>>612418 m8 go outside and get laid. You won't regret it. Don't become like my room mate or sits in his room all day with the blinds closed and feels the need to tell me how he's superior to all these plebs with jobs and friends.
>You sound like you're about 14 or 15. I'm currently halfway through my bachelor's
>You sound like you don't have many friends or people around you can talk to. I'm definitely not the most social person, but I have a small group of friends that I hold dear, and a few years ago I enforced a minimum of two out-of-the-house social activities per week on myself, and held to it. A smaller subset of that group knows about my goals and we've discussed them at length.
>You sound like you've retreated into an artificial shell where you're the star, and you've begun to fetishize your ego. I'm under no illusion that I'm a star. I know full well that I'm a frightened, scrambling bacterium.
>the inevitable dissolution of your precious ego I don't separate my ego from my self.
>>603330 >than they spend having a heart attack or stroke There are countless other unpleasantries than that and they are far more prevalent than any pleasure. Also, most people just don't have such vibrant imaginations that they can amuse themselves at will.
>>612504 There are far more pleasures to every sensation than just orgasms and eating, those are just the most extreme pleasures and they are fully repeatable, whereas the worst unpleasantness has the added benefit of ending abruptly or causing you to go into shock.
>>602918 >omnipotent >omniscient >incorporeal >immutable >eternal >only one
So, our own plane of existence? This thing that has to be defined as "God" does not have to be defined as a "being"; it must only fit the criteria above. And everything that has ever been, ever happened, or ever known exists within our universe.
>>601977 I'd honestly compare atheism to the horror of Lovecraft. Those with a strong sense of self motivation can survive the pulling of the curtain to reveal utter irrelevance, but those who need an anchor besides the self simply spiral down into depression and nihilism.
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