[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | Home]
4Archive logo
How influential has Anarchism been as a political...
If images are not shown try to refresh the page. If you like this website, please disable any AdBlock software!

You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

Thread replies: 64
Thread images: 6
How influential has Anarchism been as a political movement?
Has there ever been an Anarchist state?
>>
>>596692
Anarchist state is an oxymoron. This oxymoron isn't used except by people who don't know the first thing about anarchism. Do yourself a favor (if you really care to learn about it) and abandon this thread, and go read some anarchist writers: bakunin, kropotkin, etc. You won't get anything of value out of watching a bunch of arguing anonymous retards who also don't know shit about anarchism.
>>
File: 1362299566601.jpg (21 KB, 466x470) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1362299566601.jpg
21 KB, 466x470
>>596692
>Has there ever been an Anarchist state?
>>
Correction: anarchist society*
>>
>>596692
No it is impossible
>Someone says Somalia

That's a minarcy. There's a plurality of states in Somalia
>>
>>596834
>>596835
>Dees niggas don't know about Batushka Makhno and the tachankas of freedom.

Shamefur.
>>
Aboriginal Australia.

England after Henry I died.
>>
>>596835
Anarchist on the inside, statist on the outside
>>
>>596692
There were some anarchist societies in Republican Spain but that was about it.
>>
Catalonia during the Civil War was anarchist.
>>
>>596692
Quite influential. Look of Revolutionary Catalonia, Rojava, Zapatista Army of National Liberation, the Paris Commune, just to name some the largest and most successful societies influenced by anarchism.

One could also make an argument that some hunter-gatherer tribes that exist are anarchist in structure.
>>
>>597056
>Revolutionary Catalonia, Rojava, Zapatista Army of National Liberation, the Paris Commune
but all of those were failures
>>
anarchism is based on the assumption that people are born generally good.
That is why there has never been an anarchist state.

>>596834
what do you think of Emma Goldman?
>>
>>597236
False statement is false, but whatever. Emma Goldman is pretty dope.
>>
>>596879
Anarcho-statism tbf
>>
>>597591
Evil kikette
>>
>Anarchist state
>>
>>597073
The fact that they ended in mob rule and mass terror shortly before being swallowed up by a nearby state is irrelevant. They formed a society with no government. The efficiency and stupidity of the system isn't up for debate, just their existence.
>>
>>596692
Anonymous is an anarchists movement. Also Somalia doesn't really have a de facto government.
>>
>>596692
No one's tried an anarchist state because no one believes in it enough to risk it.
>>
>>598292
>>596692
Free Territory
Revolutionary Catalonia
Paris Commune
Medieval Iceland
>>
>>596839
Somalia is anarcho-capitalist if anything. and it's doing surprisingly well economically.
>>
>>598575
>and it's doing surprisingly well economically.
citation needed
>>
>>598280
It has *official* government, Somaliland regional government closely cooperating with the actual government, several religious islamic "republics"(defined as country without monarch, not in any other way) and roaming warbands based on tribal relations(so pretty much tribal states).
>>
>>598389
> Medieval Iceland
Tell me more
>>
>>598575
That's just Somaliland, not entire Somalia. Most of Somalia is an anocracy.
>>
>You won't get anything of value out of watching a bunch of arguing anonymous retards who also don't know shit about anarchism.

Word.

Go read some shit, the people on 4chan are utter morons.
>>
>>596692
>thread about Anarchism
>posts Socialist flag

Fuck off Noam Chomsky
>>
>>599918
Still buttmad I see :^)

t. Chompsky
>>
Is there an "anarchism has never been tried!" image?
>>
>>599918
Anarcho-Syndicalism is, and historically has been, the dominant branch of anarchist philosophy and practice.

The closest approximations to true anarchist societies; Revolutionary Catalonia and the Free Territories, were both of the an-syn variety.
>>
File: never been tried.png (112 KB, 793x3748) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
never been tried.png
112 KB, 793x3748
>>600067
>>
>>596692
>How influential has Anarchism been as a political movement?
Very much. Before Marx, it was Proudhon the one that defined the outlines of the socialist critique of capitalism from an economic rather than merely ethical point of view. Indeed, one could say that Marx simply picked the ideas of anarchist authors and gave them an scholarly treatment into Das Kapital. After the Internationale fell out thanks to marxists and anarchists going at each other throats, the differences began to widen. You must also remember that back in the day, the term used for all these worker's movements was simply "socialism", since there was no clear schism between ideologies, which is why you have such ease for people to be loose in their doctrinal positions (Proudhon was a member of parliament, after all, something that would be heavily rejected by anarchists today).
Long after that, during the XX century, you have the ukranian makhnovists and the CNT/FAI being the biggest referents for later anarchists.
So yeah, anarchism is very much influential outside arts, punk trash and edgy teenagers.
>>
>>600078
The anti-communist position I would predict will be either that socialism has a higher body count than capitalism. Which is absurd, because you are mixing a variety of often contradicting ideologies into a single soup just to have a point. Stalin, Mao and the Khmer Rouge, the heavy hitters of socialism, were all authoritarians that have little in common with people like Allende, who defended the constitution and the rule of the law until the end, even going as far as persecuting anti-goverment anarchist militias. If you compare bodycounts that way, I could also go and mix together colonial congo, rhodesia, colonial vietnam and other imperialist catastrophes with modern day germany and the United States just for the sake of making an spectacular, emotionally driven argument.
>>
File: cambodia.jpg (117 KB, 553x369) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
cambodia.jpg
117 KB, 553x369
>>600125
>have little in common with people like Allende, who defended the constitution and the rule of the law until the end, even going as far as persecuting anti-goverment anarchist militias

Except that Allende openly admired Stalin and openly armed left-wing paramilitaries.

>I could also go and mix together colonial congo, rhodesia, colonial vietnam and other imperialist catastrophes with modern day germany and the United States

And there would still be less deaths than communism. With another difference, absolutely no one defended the Congo Free State, tens of thousands of intellectuals have defended dekulakization, the Cultural Revolution, etc
>>
>>600138
To be fair to Allende, this was before destalinization so stalin's crimes weren't that well known. A lot of people spoke well of him after ww2.
>>
File: antifragile.jpg (17 KB, 313x475) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
antifragile.jpg
17 KB, 313x475
There is "Anarchy" and "Anarchism" as a political movement. These are different things.

The Icelandic Commonwealth and Frisia during the Middle Ages were "anarchist" communities, for example, but most modern anarchists wouldn't like them for being too "patriarchal" and "racist".

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisian_freedom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Commonwealth

Which leads to the problem of anarchism as a political movement, and why it will always fail. Anarchists have several cultural positions that can only be enforced by a centralized state, such as feminism, anti-racism and pro-LGBT rights. The only kind of anarchy that is possible is anarcho-patriarchy, a society where political, cultural, social and economical power is in the hands of voluntary associations and civil institutions commanded by patriarchs, such as in the examples I posted above.

Such societies were decentralized, "feudal" by nature, and therefore also unequal. That's a feature, not a bug, and that's what made them great. Anarchism as a political movement is shit because it's basically useful idiots serving the expansion of the same central Power they claim to hate so much.
>>
>>600138
I count everything that the Brits caused in India as capitalist atrocities.
>>
>>600138
>And there would still be less deaths than communism.
The parody pic of communism's death count that has "capitalist" crimes has a higher death count if i'm not mistaken. Of course, both are retarded.
>>
>>600149
Destalinization was in the 50s, Allende was President of Chile in the 70s, he knew Stalin crimes and admired him nonetheless.

Even today, a lot of people when they speak against Stalin, they only speak of the "Great Purge" and "Moscow Trials", absolute not a single left-wing writer or intellectual since the 1930s has ever condemned his greatest political and moral crime: dekulakization. That means the left do not regret it and would do it again if they had the chance.
>>
>>600156
Fair enough, better than counting WWI.

Still less deaths in 200 years than in the 5 years of the "Great Leap Forward".
>>
>>600160
>Destalinization was in the 50s, Allende was President of Chile in the 70s, he knew Stalin crimes and admired him nonetheless.
Allende praised stalin in the early 50s.

>That means the left do not regret it and would do it again if they had the chance.
That does not follow.
>>
>>600160
By the way, it's ironic how so many anarchists came to hate "kulaks", "mennonites" and other Russian peasant castes, since these people actually live in anarchist communities.

But of course, as I said, anarchism is less about "anarchy" and more about instrumentalizing useful idiots to the service of Power.
>>
>>600160
>>600167
To add to this:
>El 7 de diciembre de 1956 tomó la palabra en el Senado para condenar la invasión soviética de Hungría y resaltar el histórico XX Congreso del PCUS, celebrado en febrero de aquel año, en el que Nikita Kruschev presentó su demoledor informe sobre los crímenes de Stalin. Entonces, como a lo largo de su vida con su acción política y su cuidada oratoria, Allende defendió “los conceptos humanistas y libertarios” del socialismo y el derecho a la autodeterminación de los pueblos.
Translation:
>On December 7, 1956 he [Allende] spoke in the senate to condemn the soviet invasion of hungary and highlight the historical XX Congress of the CPSU in February of that year, in which Nikita Khrushchev presented his damning report on Stalin's crimes. Then, as throughout his life with his political action and careful speech , Allende defended " humanist and libertarian concepts " of socialism and the right to self-determination of peoples.
>>
>>600156
>capitalist atrocities in the British Raj
Capitalism is an economic system. It has nothing to do with state wars, massacres, rebellions...
>>
>>599197
All land was privately possessed. No centralized military. Politics and law were practiced locally. People left Norway for Iceland in order to escape monarchy and the possibility serfdom.
>>
>>596692
Doesn't the word "state" kind of defeat the point of anarchism? You can't have an anarchic state, otherwise it wouldn't be anarchic.
>>
>>600195
This. Allende had a lot of trouble within his own government trying to balance power between authoritarians and constitutionalists.
>>
>>600160
>Even today, a lot of people when they speak against Stalin, they only speak of the "Great Purge" and "Moscow Trials", absolute not a single left-wing writer or intellectual since the 1930s has ever condemned his greatest political and moral crime: dekulakization. That means the left do not regret it and would do it again if they had the chance.

Do you actually read the shit that you write?
>>
>>600227
Hahahahah
>>
>>600243
Oh neat.
Ireland under the Brehon system was similar
>>
>>600227
>Communism is an economic system. It has nothing to do with state wars, massacres, rebellions...
That's how dumb that sounds.
>>
>>600538
Communism is not only an economic system.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
>>
>>596692
Anarchist and state are mutually exclusive
>>
Well anarchism is not very effective seeing as it's not really a true political entity because it opposes the "machinations" of the pilitics of a true state.
>>
>>600243
> Politics and law were practiced locally
Except the Althing, which was practiced at the Doom Chasm

It was an interesting, anarchy-ish variant, but it still had aspects of bondage. Bondi could choose which godi to follow every year, but they still had to pick one.
>>
>>596692

Rojava is probably the closest thing we have in a contemporary setting.

They're implementing something that's pretty close to the Communalism envisioned by Murray Bookchin, although there are understandably constraints on what they can do as a result of the war they're mired in.
>>
>>600789
I wonder how Rojava will play out once a solution is found to the Syria situation. My guess is they will be granted a profound amount of autonomy under whatever compromise government emerges in Syria.
>>
>>597056
>Zapatista Army of National Liberation
Speaking as a Mexifag, you have no idea what you're talking about. Those guys are closer to some kind of maoist...thing.
>>
>>596854
The entirety of Europe once Rome lost control over the western empire.

Modern day Iraq and Lybia, and Syria really.

Anarchy's almost always quickly descend into infighting between different tribal leaders (if you count the ariscotracy of early dark ages europe as tribal leaders, which, essentially they were) who gain power through wars.
>>
>>600728
it was just common meeting where people gathered to talk about things and doings and solve their conflicts, not really a forced court of law or centralized parliament system.
>>
>>604180
They did hear cases and make laws at the Althing, for example deciding that Iceland would become a Christian nation in 1000. It was also where the lawspeaker recited the law for others to memorize.
>>
>>600970
I wonder how long until Kurds start massacring the Assyrians on power struggles and western commies come up with "it wasn't real communism" excuse.
>>
>>596692
>muh armed body of men to protect the status quo totally isn't a state
Lenin BTFO'd these nerds in State & Revolution decades ago, why do they feel the need to shit up the left to this day
Thread replies: 64
Thread images: 6
Thread DB ID: 465376



[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at [email protected] with the post's information.