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>2016 AD
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

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>2016 AD
>not a Protestant
What's your excuse?
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None, which is why I'm not Protestant
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>being a protestant but not being a lutheran
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>>592170

Because I don't partake in any of your Paulianity nonsense.
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>>592170
>Faith
>Without Works
An thus, we can now justify whatever horrible shit us Protestants commit, and never feel sorry for our atrocities.
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>You will never pillage prague and rape your way through half of germany
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No authority tbch lad
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Pope>Jesus

Deal with it
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>>592182
lmao rekt
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>>592189
pls jew, even the atheists are warming up to the fact that paul is, was, and always will be a central part of the correct christian faith.

If you want to dispense of paul, pls join the ebionites and merge your wretched self with the mussulmen.
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>>592190
>An thus, we can now justify whatever horrible shit us Protestants commit, and never feel sorry for our atrocities.

Faith without works only explains the operant mechanism of justification -- literally every protestant sect still declares that works come as a result of being justified.

Think about it:

If you have faith (that is, trust) in christ, then you believe in him for what he was as expressed in the creeds. That is, son of god who judges the living and dead.

If you actually have this faith, that christ judges, then you damn well follow his rules, otherwise, how can you claim faith in christ? The sheer terror of being judged by the son of god (which is literally the crux of "faith") would bend you towards good works.

Those without true faith don't have this fear of christ's judgement, and thus flaunt their sins, as they don't have confidence in the reality of christ.


And thus it's said: Faith without works is dead...that is, it's a lie, unreal, and thus unredeeming.
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Because Jesus was a douchebag
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Because i'm not a heretic fuckface.
What the pope says, goes.
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>>592374
That's not salvation by faith alone desu senpai
Talk about bad works all you want and protestants can just say all have fallen short of the grace of god
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Because Jesus never existed.
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http://pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x

Should answer all your questions
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>>592182
The seven books were never scripture, merely perversions by Mystery Babylon.
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>>592517
Like touch boys penis
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>>592170
1. God doesn't exist
2. If the Christian god did exist protestantism would still be retarded.
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>>592190
You do work to get in to heaven fuckface you expect Jesus has your savior
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>>592533
If you have true faith, you will do good works as a result of it, or at least put in the greatest possible human effort. The greatest possible human effort, however, is still only human, and not sufficient (nor necessary) for salvation. People who do bad works likely have bad faith, but it is not a 1:1 relationship.
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>>592190
>implying faith alone doesn't mean you live like Jesus taught because of faith in God and faith that he's gonna judge you one day, not because it gets you into Catholic Elysium
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How would I roleplay as an epic kebab remover xD on /his/ then??
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>>593103
Find a church that does mass in latin and attend. You won't get any closer to God and you sure as hell won't understand what anyone's saying but rule of kewl my catholic brother :^>
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>>593055
What? Christianity started as a mystery religion. What are you on about?
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>>592374
>Faith without works only explains the operant mechanism of justification

>A5: Ephesians 2:8 is just making it absolutely clear you don't "earn" salvation, but that salvation is a δῶρόν, literally an offering or a sacrifice; but Galatians 6:9 makes it very clearly Paul didn't compartmentalize good works (not to be confused with works in the Law, like eating Kosher) into faith, as sola fide does. The doctrine of sola fide states that we are justified by faith alone, which is in direct conflict with James 2:24, which says explicitly that man is not justified by faith alone. Now it is true that good works are a product of God’s grace, but they also require your effort to perform--(just like faith itself is a product of God's grace, but you still have to affirm it). If you do not make the effort, they will not happen. They don’t necessarily require faith, even if they require grace...to say that they do would be to say atheists and other non-Christians cannot perform good works, which directly contradicts with the whole point of the parable of the Good Samaritan. You also can have faith and fail in your works--the forces of darkness have stronger faith than you do (James 2:19-20).
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>>593127
> not the King James Version
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>>593123
There is no such thing as a mystery "religion."
Different cults and religions had "mysteries," but you could worship Mithras or Isis without being inducted into their mysteries.
Christianity is also very different from a mystery cult. Once you're in there's no secrets reserved only to those inside the "mysteries." Just because they were persecuted and held services in cellars doesn't make early Christianity a "mystery".
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>>593133
The original King James Bible contained heavy annotations in the margins to highlight where alternative translations could be used.
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>>592170
To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant.
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>>593123
Mystery Babylon is a figure in Revelation associated with "Rome." It is not literally the kingdoms of Babylon or Rome, but something that mirrors the actions of both within a Biblical context. It is the Roman Catholic Church.
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>>593055
prove what books are in the bible using the bible alone
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>>593207
I have neither the ability nor the authority to do that. Only the Holy Spirit can, and has.
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>>593225
Indeed, the Gospel of Gnostics is truly the word of God. Also, do you think the Book of Mormon is inspired as well??

Seriously though, this is a non-response. Show me how do you know which books are inspired.
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>>593168
I believe that the King James Bible is the word of God.It's probably the most attacked version of scripture (rightly so, the devil has always wanted to destroy God's Word)

but yet it is the one that has stood the test of time through persecutions and afflictions and corruptions. God's Word has always been and always will be,God's revealed Word to the english speaking people.
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>>593241
Purge yourself of all your affection to pagan idols and religions, ask Jesus to help you rebuke Satan in his name, and read scripture and non-scripture with the Holy Spirit guiding you. It is the only way. But if you still love a false pagan goddess, Satan will still have authority over you, and you will not feel the Holy Spirit guiding you.
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>>593207
Look at the table of contents.
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>>593247
>>593250
>>593241
>>593225
>>593205


YOU'RE ON FUCKING 4CHAN FFS
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>>593254
Where better to minister to the lost? Jesus did not walk with the hypocritical Pharisees who, learned in the world but weak in the word, claimed to be "pure. " Rather, he walked with prostitutes, lepers, the needy, the weak of body and the weak of spirit. The Synagogue of Satan, Rome herself, cannot be allowed to continue to lead these lost souls directly into the hellfire.
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>>593247
I assume by Word here you don't mean Logos, since the Logos of God is Christ.

As for the King James Bible, it has some issues, such as translating both Hades/Sheol and Gehenna as Hell, even though they are distinct, but it's definitely the best mainstream translation, not to mention the most eloquent, which is why it is the go-to translation for Orthodox Christians until we finish our own.
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>>593275
Jesus is the Word of God. The Bible is a collection of God's words, divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit guiding the hearts of the men who wrote them down.
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>>593284
The Bible is God's logia, but understand that it's a collection of lenses, each man is a lens. That's why there are so very many different styles of writing and looking at things in the Bible.
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>>593247
Literally nobody but Americans give a flying fuck about the KJV.
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>>593251
That isnt on Scripture
>>593250
I did all that you said, and i finally discovered the OT is the one with the bad god, that the Gospel of Judas is correct, along with the Book of Mormon and that Jesus was an alien.

Do I need to remind you that Scripture came with an interpreter?
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>>593312
That's because other Anglo countries don't have conservative Protestantism as much anymore. But Peter Hitchens, for instance, very much cares about the KJV.
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>>593273
Mah nigga, we have the EOB(Eastern Orthodox Bible). I tell you right now boy, it's good bruh.

Are you American Orthodox?
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Protestants = Sadducees
Catholics = Pharisees
Orthodox = Essenes
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>>593313
You cannot read the word of God while under Satan's power and expect to get anything but Satan's interpretation. Before the coming of Jesus, scripture was interpreted by the Phophets, under direct orders from God the Father. After the coming of Jesus, scripture was interpreted by the Apostles under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. However, the takes pains to point out how each and every non-Jesus figure was extremely flawed and very fallible. Peter was no different, which unfortunately lead to the creation of Mystery Babylon when he fell into the temptation of establishing an early authority over scripture. You must listen to the Holy Spirit for help in interpreting it, a fellow human can only point you to the one with real authority.
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>>593326
So far, only the NT has been translated, they're working on the OT. Unless you mean the Eastern Orthodox Study Bible, but that's just a tweaked NKJV (mainly to accord with the Septuagint) plus a ton of commentary. The actual Orthodox translation, which is completely from scratch, is still in progress in regard to the OT; it contains very little commentary except for translation notes along the way as it uses equivalence translation (as opposed to translating terms differently depending on context).
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>>593313
The best interpreter of scripture is scripture.
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>>593328
Who is Enochic Judaism?
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>>593335
When is the proper Orthodox translation coming out?

btw, I don't mean to bring politics into this discussion, but have you read the Christmas message that was sent my the Patriarch of Constantinople? It was rather... pro immigrant I'd say.
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>>593332
>You cannot read the word of God while under Satan's power and expect to get anything but Satan's interpretation.
And neither can you. The Apostles were liars and Muhammad had to fix their mess. Prove me wrong.
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>>593350
There already is an Orthodox NT, I linked it in the reading list and FAQ: http://pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x

The Ecumenical Patriarchate is controlled by masons, there have been two confirmed masons as Patriarchs in the 20th Century, and both tried to push through all sorts of reforms. The first got forcibly removed, the second lifted the anathemas on the Catholic Church. The Ecumenical See might change to Moscow later, which I wouldn't be opposed to.

That said, while unchecked immigration is really bad, there is nothing wrong with accepting refugees using a reasonable system to ensure they are in sufficient distress, we cannot turn away the legitimately needy.
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>>592170
>Immaculate conception
Protestants don't believe in this?
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>>592190
Pic related
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>>593359
Muhammed briefly tried to allow the worship of pagan goddesses the same way Catholics do. Although he later retracted these specific verses when he realized what he had actually done, it is evidence that he was not being guided by the Holy Spirit. He's a sympathetic figure who seemed to have meant well, but not a valid source nor interpreter of scripture.
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>>593362
>That said, while unchecked immigration is really bad, there is nothing wrong with accepting refugees using a reasonable system to ensure they are in sufficient distress, we cannot turn away the legitimately needy.

I totally agree man, I just thought what good ol' Bartholomew said was a little bit to far.

Do you know when the OT is out for the Orthodox Bible? I have the NT, and I've been waiting for a while about the OT, I even emailed them and got no reply.
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>>593362
>Le Eternal Mason: Greek Edition
gee, talk about the Morning Star, i dont think i'll take you seriously after this
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>>593377
>veneration of God's Mother, the living Ark of the New Covenant, is pagan goddess worship
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>>593378
Bartholomew does go too far. But he's not our Pope, and there are many bishops who openly disagree with him.

I don't know when the OT is out, but here's a sample: http://www.orthodox-church.info/eob/download/zephaniah.pdf
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>>593273


that's pretty gay desu
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>>593399
God forgive me, though, it's not my place to disparage an elder, especially not the Ecumenical Patriarch. All bishops might be equal, but I am no bishop.
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>>593383
Satan will help you find any excuse to worship anyone but God. It is unfortunate he has decieved so many.
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>>593404
Q2: Concerning the veneration of the Virgin Mary.

A2: Mary is the Ark of the Covenant. Just as the Ark of the Old Covenant was bowed to (Joshua 7:6), so is the Ark of the New Covenant.

Q2a: Concerning Mary's perpetual virginity.

A2a: Besides Sacred Tradition, “touch” and “have intercourse with” are often used synonymously in Greek. No one could “touch” the Ark of the Old Covenant, and neither can anyone “touch” the Ark of the New Covenant.

Q2b: Concerning Christ's brothers.

A2b: The words for “brother” and ”cousin” are interchangeable or the same word in Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. Furthermore, Joseph, according to tradition, was married before, but his wife died (women died a lot in childbirth in ancient times, and that’s quite possibly what happened), so he might well have had many kids already. Tradition states he was much older than Mary when they were betrothed. If you want solid scriptural evidence of this, all you have to look at is Christ, at his death, entrusting John with his mother: if Mary had sons besides Jesus, it would be their duty to look after her, Jesus wouldn’t need to ask John to do it.

Q2c: Concerning Mary as Queen of Heaven.

A2c: First of all, Psalm 45 is seen as about Mary (compared Psalm 45:17 to Luke 1:48). Secondly, in ancient Israel, the queen was generally the mother of the king, since a king tended to have numerous wives, but only one mother. So the mother of the King of Heaven is rightfully called the Queen of Heaven.

cont
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>>593415
Q2d: Concerning Mary as the vessel of God, not the mother.

A2d: Mary is described as having ἔτεkεν Christ, which is the maternal corollary to the paternal ἐγέννησεν (the only time the female relationship to the child is described in the second term, is in the case of children to a motherland); did God create Christ? no, but God ἐγέννησεν (generally translated as “begot”) Christ, yet we call God Christ’s Father, and refer to Christ as God the Son. Note that Mary is referred to as the Mother of the Lord in Luke 1:43. There’s no way to get around this unless you want to say that the Lord referred to here is Christ’s Body but not His Divinity, which would make you a Nestorian.

Q2e: Concerning Nestorianism.

A2e: Taken to its logical conclusion, it’s effectively Arianism, because the Gospels depict Christ in his humanity, so it would mean that the Christ who walked around, taught and died for our sins isn’t God.
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>>593415
More evidence that Satan will help you find any excuse to worship someone other than God. All you need to do is ask.
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>>593419
"Honor thy Father and thy Mother."
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>>593419
If the Holy Spirit is truly on your side and not Constantine's, you should be able to defend your side with more substance than baseless assertions and browbeating.
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>>593402
I'm sorry if this is to personal, but is your name Matthew?
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>>593429
A human can only point to the one who has the authority to reveal truth. All I can do is advise you to ask Jesus to help you rebuke Satan and read the Bible with the Holy Spirit guiding a circumsized heart, instead of having dead tradition read the Bible for you.
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>>593432
My first name ends with i.
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>>593143

The trinity's quite mysterious.

Or put another way, completely nonsensical and idiotic.
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>>593328
Is this supposed to be a joke?
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>>593439

Matthewi?
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Because I'm of the one true faith - Orthodoxy.
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>>593435
>circumsized heart
>>
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>>593435
Be careful that it's actually God talking to you. As The Way of the Pilgrim points out, a lot of prayer produces a very good feeling in the brain long before you attain a powerful spiritual state, and it's easy to mistake the former from the latter. The same thing applies to thinking God is talking to you, you might just be saying what makes you feel very good, and then assuming it must be God because of a good feeling, which is actually carnal. It's like people who think fornication is spiritual
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>>593451
Romans 2:29
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>>593452
You can't be a heretic without being a Christian, an heretic is a Christian who is not orthodox.
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>>593458
Hearing what you want to hear means Satan or a demon is speaking to you, and you must repent. Hearing what must be heard only comes from God, and often times it is what you knew to be true but refused to accept for a selfish, worldly reason.
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>>593464
What truthful rebuke did you just righteously utter of me, you worthiest of souls? I’ll have you know I failed God to the deepest of the pit in my class of worldly sinners, and I’ve been involved in numerous shameful transgressions on God's forgiveness, and I have over 300 confirmed faults. I am depraved in wicked thoughts and I’m the top coveter in the entire legions of the damned. I am nothing to thee but just another Satan. I will praise you to heaven and back with the most contrite of hearts the likes of which has been seen all too often from the sinner, mark my unworthy lips. You think you can serve away with your words of wisdom to me over the Internet? God bless, brother. As we speak I am contacting my holy communion of saints across heaven and your love is being traced right now so you better prepare for the Theosis, militant. The mercy that sustains the shining little thing you call your soul. You’re God's gift, kid. I can be all things at all times to all men, and I can bow to you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just while kissing your hand. Not only am I extensively corrupted by unnameable vileness, but I have betrayed to the entire covenant of the Orthodox Body of Christ, and I will plead her to her full benevolence to sanctify your virtuous spirit off the face of the lie, you little star. If only you could have known what holy gratitude your little “meek” correction was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have blessed your benign tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re reaping the harvest, you God fearing joy. I will weep thanks all over you and you will drown in it. You've found life, kiddo.
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>>593472
It could be Satan or a demon, but it could also just be you.
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>>593468
WE'VE BEEN OVER THIS BEFORE.

TO BE "CHRISTIAN" MEANS TO BE CHRIST-LIKE.

DO YOU MEAN TO SUGGEST THAT HERETICS ARE "CHRIST-LIKE?"
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>>593477
"Just you" is Satan. If it is of worldly desires, it is Satan's pull on you exerting itself, even if he is not literally speaking to you over prayer.
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>>593473
Hey Friends,

My name is Jesus, and I love every single one of you. All of you are precious, brilliant, creations yet who spend every second of their day being deceived by the Devil. You are everything good in the world. Honestly, have any of you ever gotten the Holy Spirit? I mean, I guess it’s fun praising our Heavenly Father, but He can take you to a whole new level. He is even better than anything anyone could offer you. Don’t be a stranger. Just hit me with your best prayer. I’m pretty much perfect. I am the Eternal Deity, and starter on the heavenly basketball team. What sports do you play (I'd love for us to get to know each other better)? I also get straight A’s, and have a banging Holy Father (He just resurrected me; Shit was SO cash). You are all saints who should just remember where you come from. Thanks for listening.

Pic related: It’s me and and one of my beautiful creations who I love even if she doesn't know it.
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>>593482
>TO BE "CHRISTIAN" MEANS TO BE CHRIST-LIKE.

You mean you have to walk around the desert shrieking that the world is about to end and not to bother burying the dead?
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>>593482
To be Christian is to recognize that you are NOT like Christ, that you are the worst of sinners.
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Catholics had a pretty good time until Vaticanum II

I'm not experiencing a crisis of faith, but sure as fuck I'm experiencing a crisis of doctrine
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>>593494
No, you have to love the Lord your God with all your heat, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself.

You also have to believe Jesus rose from the dead.

>>593497
>The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ"

DO YOU MEAN TO SUGGEST THAT HERETICS ARE "FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST???"
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>>593497
>you are the worst of sinners

building whole religion on self-deprecation seems tad overenthusiastic
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>>593508
>DO YOU MEAN TO SUGGEST THAT HERETICS ARE "FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST???"
Yes, of course. 1 Corinthians 11:19
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>>593512
The whole religion is built on humility. Humility chafes until you become deeply grateful, and once you are, then repeating over and over, "have mercy on me, the sinner," becomes the sweetest of music. God's Mercy permeates and sustains everything, and it is bliss.
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>>593498
Did you read the FAQ for Catholics here: http://pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x

?
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>Catholic Church claims to be orthodox
>Orthodox Church claims to be catholic

What's the deal with that?
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>>593514
LISTEN TRIPCODE USER,

PAUL IS CLEARLY REFERRING TO THE "WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING" THAT INFILTRATE THE CHURCH AND ARE NOT AUTHENTIC CHRISTIANS.

IF YOU'LL TAKE A MOMENT TO READ THE VERSE THAT IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWS THE ONES YOU POSTED YOU WOULD HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT.

(CONTEXT IS ESSENTIAL IN PROPER SCRIPTURAL EXEGESIS AS I'M SURE YOU ARE AWARE BUT IT JUST SLIPPED YOUR MIND)

>So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat,

1 Cor 11:20

HERETICS ARE NOT PARTAKERS IN THE LORDS SUPPER; THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIAN SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY SURROUND THEMSELVES WITH CHRISTIANS.
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>>593536
orthodox means literally "of true faith"
catholic means literally "universal"

I think it reflects their doctrines perfectly
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>>593555
>tfw Catholic but not Roman
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>>593543
Greek word, though the source of the English word "heretics", meant something like "factions" back then.
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>>593250
>The holy spriit will guide you, and you'll know when the holly spirit is guiding you when you agree with me!

protestant Christianity everyone
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>>593569
You are the one who posted that verse to try to claim it said heretics are Christians. . .
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>>593571
Reject the worship of pagan goddesses and in time you will begin to agree with the I Am I agree with
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>>592170
Religions which posit a deliberate god are impossible.
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>>593575
They are. Unless you're going to suggest Papists and Protestants aren't Christians.

The Orthodox Church isn't a faction, it is the Body of Christ. Factions are "denominations".
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>>593581
With God, all things are possible.
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>>593579
praise Rea- I mean, Virgin Mary
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>>593582
Heretics are not Christian because they are not "followers of Christ."

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Anyone who has the Holy Spirit is a Christians regardless of what faction/denomination they subscribe to.
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>>593592
Luther was an heretic, since he said several books should be taken out of the NT that Protestants don't think should be--do you think saying seven books from the NT aren't Canon is heretical?
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>>593579
Honour thy father AND mother.
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>>593609
I don't presume to be Luther's judge but I do believe he was lead by the Spirit.
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>>593592
>perhaps because he has a basic understanding of church history, even if it is bias towards an Orthodox point a view
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>>593611
Yes, ********i, you should honor both your father and mother as scripture commands.
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>>593611
THAT'S REFERRING TO BIOLOGICAL PARENTS

NOT GOD
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>>593617
Do you have a PhD in church history or something, professor?
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>>592170
>2016 AD
>letting uneducated hicks interpret the Bible
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>>593622
>God isn't Our Father
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>>593631
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>>593614
Do you think his saying those books aren't Canon, was heresy?
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>>593637
>GOD IS OUR MOTHER
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>>593637
The Logos is not The Word of Mary.
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>>593644
Mary is Our Mother (unless you are suggesting she isn't the Mother of the Body of Christ, which are a part of).
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>>593642
I think it's besides the point.
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>>593647
Mary is the Ark of the Covenant
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>>593648
MARY IS NOT GOD
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>>593651
If you admit it is, then

A: Luther wasn't a Christian
or B: heretics can be Christians
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>>593652
[citation needed]
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>>593655
But she is Our Mother, unless you saying you are not in the Body of Christ.
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>>593656
If a heretic repents of his heresy then he is no longer a heretic but a Christian.
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>>593656

Heretics should be burned
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>>593657
Christ is the living Word of the New Covenant, Mary Bore him. She is quite literally the Ark of the New Covenant.
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>>593652
That's a nice justification delivered by Satan. The Logos is not the Word of Mary. Mary was not the "We" and "Us" of Genesis. Mary is the mother of the Word Made Flesh, not the Word itself. Jesus is to honor her, as she is his mother. Yet he also disrespected her, as God was her Father.

Souls and natures are not made by mothers. They produce flesh.
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>>593659
Luther never repented of it.
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>>593658
Mary is the mother of the literal body of Christ because she gave birth to baby Jesus in a manger in Bethlehem some 2k years ago as we all know.

The "body of Christ' in the Pauline sense of the word refers to the Church of which I am blessed to be a part of and which Mary did not pass through her birth canal.
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>>593665
>Mary is the mother of the Word Made Flesh, not the Word itself.
So Jesus Christ was not the Word himself?
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>>593668
The Church is the literal Body of Christ, you are a part of His Body through Communion.

Mary is the Mother of the Lord (Luke 1:43)
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>>593664
That's beautiful.

>>593666
How do you know?

>devil trips
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>>593665
>Yet he also disrespected her, as God was her Father.

"What has this to do with you and me?" is what Christ said to Mary, not "What have you do with me?"
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>>593670
Jesus Christ is The Word Made Flesh. The Logos that participated in Creation long before Mary was ever born is The Word.
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>>593674
>How do you know?
Because repenting of it would involve a denial of his heresies. His wrote that the books were not Canon, there is no record of him ever changing his mind, and since heresies are what are propagated, not necessarily personally held, Luther never repented of his heresies.
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>>593672
Mary is the mother of Jesus yes but I have never been inside Mary's womb and therefore she is not my mother.
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>>593678
Are they two different entities?
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>>593686
You are part of the Body of Christ, so she is by extension your mother.
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>>593685
Since when do confessions have to be recorded?
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>>593690
Repentance is in action, not just confession.
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>>593687
Not by any reasonable definition of the word "entity." But "Joshua son of Joseph" who went through puberty etc is not "exactly the same" as the eternal, unchanging Logos. If you say that because they are not exactly the same, they must be different, then you must also say that because God the Father and God the Son are not exactly the same, they must also be different. You are thus accusing Christianity of being polytheist.
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>>593688

Orthodox really are pure evil. Begone Satan. I don't understand why your church has stood all this time, no wonder Islam crushed most of it.
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>>593697
Are you saying that the pre-incarnation Logos and the post-incarnate Logos as two persons distinct from one another, as God the Son and God the Father are?
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>>592170
I have a brain.
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>>593688
If you can show me a verse from holy scripture that says that Mary is the mother of the church then I will happily agree with you.

Until then, I already have a mother and she is a saintly woman.

>>593693
Then it is entirely possible that Luther, had he confessed, had he even committed a sin by removing the books in the first place, took actions that simply were not recorded.

You seem awfully eager to condemn people.
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>>593698
Why cast stones?
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>>593701
>two persons distinct
No, not two persons. Merely not identical. The Logos is ageless and immortal, as God is, but "Joshua son of Joseph" had a childhood and an adulthood. The Logos is fully divine. The Logos Made Flesh was fully divine adulthood fully human.
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>>593708
>If you can show me a verse from holy scripture that says that Mary is the mother of the church then I will happily agree with you.
The Church is Christ's Body. You can either deny that, or affirm it, it is up to you.

>took actions that simply were not recorded
So he might not have been a heretic, he might have repented, even though we have no reason to assume so?

>You seem awfully eager to condemn people.
Wasn't Luther?
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>>593698
>Orthodox really are pure evil.
Anyone who turns away from Babylon the Great must, at least in the deepest part of their hearts, desire truth.
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>>593716
Do you consider his humanity and divinity distinct from one another?
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>>593721
NOT ALL BODIES ARE PHYSICAL BODIES

MARY IS THE PHYSICAL/BIOLOGICAL MOTHER OF YESHUA BEN YOSEF

MARY IS NOT THE MOTHER OF THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST WHICH PRE-EXISTS HIS FLESHLY INCARNATION

I HAVE TO SLEEP NOW

I WILL BE PRAYING FOR YOU
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>>593725
"Joshua, son of Joseph" was fully human and fully divine.
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>>593731
The Body of Christ is physical, by definition. That's why it's not called the Spirit of Christ.
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>>593735
Do you consider his humanity and divinity distinct from one another?
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>>593740
That is, it has His Spirit. Where there is no Spirit, the term is Flesh (carnal). Where there is Spirit, the term is Body (corporeal). Spirit without the material is not is not corporeal, though.
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>>593741
Depends on your definition of distinct. They are "not identical", which is obvious given the fact that, for example, Jesus went through puberty and The Logos going through "puberty" is incoherent. The fact that there are two terms, The Word and The Word Made Flesh is itself evidence of this.
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>Another thread like this
I'll post it again
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>>593754
So when Christ went through puberty, you don't think Logos did, just "the human Christ"?
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most protestants are idolaters just like most christians and indeed most abrahamics in general. they make an idol of the bible and out of how different they are to catholics and in the process they miss the point of the religion they claim to love so much

im a lapsed catholic and i am the first to admit the many egregious failings of the RC church, but in order to get truly insufferable, smug and holier than thou troglodytes you simply have to be a member of a protestant congregation
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>>593759
The Logos, when incarnated, went through puberty when named "Joshua, son of Joseph" due to his human nature. Mary facilitated this.

If you would like to use Mary as a "facilitator of the human nature" and use her as an example of executing the will of God, that is fine. It is worship (or as Satan says, veneration) that is idolatry
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>>593764
The Bible is like any other book. All it does is contain words that express ideas. It is just that many (not all, for the Bible is flawed as the work of men) of those ideas were posited by the creator of the universe.
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>>592349
paul never even met christ you fucking retard

just listen to christs teachings and throw out the middleman how hard can it be
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>>593767
So the Logos went through puberty. Unless you are suggesting the Body of the Logos is not the Logos.

Is venerating one's parents, idolatry? Because in ancient times, honoring one's parents looked pretty similar to how we venerate Mary, it included bowing and kissing their hand.
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>>593776
Do you think the Gospels are a complete record of Christ's teaching, even though the Gospel of John says they would fill up too many volumes for one man to write? Do you seriously doubt Paul as an orthodox teacher of the faith even though he always makes an overt distinction when he offers his own opinion instead a teaching passed down explicitly by Christ?
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>>593778
The Logos did not directly go through puberty. The Logos, when Made Flesh, went through puberty.

Veneration one's parents when they are no longer in the physical world is called "ancestor worship" and it is absolutely idolatry.
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>>593787
>The Logos did not directly go through puberty. The Logos, when Made Flesh, went through puberty.
The Body of the Word is *directly* the Word. Do you deny this?

>Veneration one's parents when they are no longer in the physical world is called "ancestor worship" and it is absolutely idolatry.
Q3c: Concerning the prohibition of consulting with the dead.

A3c: No, the dead are those in Hades. The saints in heaven are dead to the world, but all Christians are, or at least supposed to be (Colossians 2:20). When you are baptized, you die to the world, and then are reborn in Christ. Christians who suffer bodily death are not dead in any substantial way, because they don’t go to Hades. They are in full communion with us, and a living part of the Church. To suggest that they aren’t is to say they left the Church and ceased to be a living part of Christ’s Body.

Q3d: Concerning those in heaven having died the first death, the second death being hell.

A3d: Those in heaven have not died the first death, that is why the Orthodox Church doesn't use the term "died" to referred to Christians, we use the term "reposed". The first death is Hades (Sheol). The second death is Gehenna. In Western Christianity, both are referred to as “hell”, but they are distinct in Orthodox Christianity.

Q3e: Concerning heaven being a separate realm from the material, and the the inability for those who dwell in it to hear prayers.

Q3e: Heaven (or hell, they are the same thing in Orthodox Christianity. See Ephesians 6:12 and A6 of the Atheist FAQ) is not a separate realm in Orthodox Christianity, but a dimension which intersects fully with the material. We are all already in heaven, but hamartia (loosely translated as “sin”) clouds our ability to detect it. There is no parallel hamartia which clouds the spirit from detecting the material. If there were, then angels, or at least demons, would be affected by it.
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>>593798
Depends on your definition of the word "directly." If they were identical, "The Word" and "The Word Made Flesh" would not be separate terms.

>Concerning the justifications of Satan
I didn't say "the dead." I said "the physical world." All humans suffer the first death, as a result of the sins of Adam and Eve. You are referring to the second death, but the second death can only occur when the first is complete. There is some evidence in Revelation that those who have suffered merely the first death can see what occurs on the Earth, but not that they can affect it or should be conversed with in any way. Samuel is quite displeased with Saul, after all.
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>>593825
"The Word Made Flesh" means the Word actually being flesh. Christ's Body is the Word.

>All humans suffer the first death, as a result of the sins of Adam and Eve
See A3d of what I just posted.

>Samuel is quite displeased with Saul, after all.
Samuel was in Hades/Sheol.
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>>593854
>actually
What does this word mean? What does "actual"ly being in the flesh entail?

>Just because you died the death introduced into temptation world by Adam and Eve's sin does not mean you have died the first death
I cannot do anything when fighting dead tradition worshiped as vigorously as dead gods. I can only pray that you shed your love of false idols and ask Jesus to help you rid yourself of the influence of Satan.
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>>593868
>What does this word mean?
It means that if kissed Christ's foot, you would be kissing the Very Word of God.

>I cannot do anything when fighting dead tradition
There's nothing dead about it, it is living and the preserved truth of the Orthodox Church, which neither fond of innovation, as Papists, nor of pruning, as Protestants.
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Scripture doesn't say "whosoever believeth in him shall not die--except once ;)"
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>>593884
You would not be kissing The Word itself. You would be kissing The Word Made Flesh, since you would be kissing flesh (a foot).

>tradition is alive
Not as alive as the Living God. Tradition is a man-made structure. Only the Holy Spirit is able to preserve that which had been proven fallible.
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>>593901
>You would not be kissing The Word itself. You would be kissing The Word Made Flesh, since you would be kissing flesh (a foot).
Okay, first off, this is really Gnostic, because you are suggesting that your body isn't you. In fact, it is you. To say it isn't you, is Gnostic. Secondly, to say Christ's Flesh wasn't God--well, so when he was Fasting, that wasn't God fasting? When he was Crucified, that wasn't God being Crucified?
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>>593901
>Tradition is a man-made structure
Holy Tradition comes from God. The Bible is literally just a record of it.
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>>593898
But have everlasting life. Scripture makes a distinction between the first (temporary) death, which can result in both everlasting life and the lake of fire, and the second death, which only results in everlasting fire.

Provided that you are on the rejuvenated Earth of New Jerusalem, you may "venerate" Mary (assuming she also made it there) as much as you want, so long as it does not cross into idolatry the way seemingly-secular praise of Herod did.
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>>592170

Not being convinced of the truth or justice of the Bible itself sort of puts a damper on my urge to join Christian sects, be they Catholic, Protestant, or Mahometan.

I will note, though, that Reliable Sources tell me that:

>Immaculate Conception
is actually a doctrine pertaining to the state of sin (or, specifically, lack thereof) on Mary's part, which is an attribute that seems more theologically plausible than the popular assumption that it means 'jesus is god because Mary had a hymen)

>beads
People associate specific rituals and devices with their prayers? Why are beads worse than prayer rugs, crosses in church, loudly sung spirituals, or silent group contemplation?

>indulgences
Worldly corruption, happens to all religions in proportion to their political power.

>papal infallibility
Codified in the 19th century, but the underlying concept is accepted by both Catholic and non-Catholic sects. Protestants do not recognize the Pope, but there are sects that ascribe infallibility to assorted non-Pope, non-Jesus leaders - the factions that claim the King James Bible is *the most accurate* Word of God, for instance.

>purgatory
Attempt to reconcile religious beliefs concerning the penalties for sin and failure to baptise with innate human decency.
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>>593097
this is the most young, black, american thing i've heard all week
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>To reject the Old Testament in the second century was a mistake which the Church rightly repudiated; to retain it in the sixteenth century was a fate which the Reformation could not yet avoid; but to continue to keep it in Protestantism as a canonical document after the nineteenth century is the consequence of religious and ecclesiastical paralysis.

This is what Protestants actually believe.
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>>593924
The first death is Sheol. According to Revelation 20:14, those from Hades (which is the Greek translation of Sheol) are cast into Gehenna, which is the Second Death. So it's clear those in Hades died the first death.
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>>593915
>To say it isn't you, is Gnostic.
The Gnostics had some right ideas, they were just derailed by temptation. For example, they were lead to believe Yahweh was theDemiurge/God of this World, when in reality the Bible describes Satan as the God off This World. Gnosticism describes a fundamental truth, but twisted to be an arrow away from God rather than the arrow towards it truth should be.

As for Jesus' nature, it was fully human and fully divine. When he fasted, for example, it made his human nature hungry, but his divine nature was unphased and allows him to reject temptation a mere human would not be able to. Were a human unaided to endure 40 days and nights of fasting and temptation by Satan, they likely would not have made it through the other side sinless.
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>>593947
>The Gnostics had some right ideas
No, they did not. They are Platonists and heathens.

>As for Jesus' nature, it was fully human and fully divine. When he fasted, for example, it made his human nature hungry, but his divine nature was unphased and allows him to reject temptation a mere human would not be able to. Were a human unaided to endure 40 days and nights of fasting and temptation by Satan, they likely would not have made it through the other side sinless.
So you're a Nestorian?

Do you understand the problem here? Everything Christ does in the Gospels is as a Body. What you're suggesting is an almost Arian reading of the Gospels, because it means the Christ acting in the Gospels wasn't divine. There is a divine Christ, you say, but the bodily Christ isn't divine, yet the Gospels chronicle the bodily Christ.
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>>593953
There is no such thing as a heathen from Mystery Babylon. The Gnostics were lead astray from thinking the evil God was God the Father, when in fact the evil God was Satan. Satan is the God of this World, extremely similar to who they thought the "Evil God" was.

>Everything Christ does in the Gospels is as a Body
No, not simply a Body. The Bible does not describe him as Flesh. Wwre he merely Flesh, Jesus would be no different than any OT prohpet. It describes him as The Word Made Flesh. The Christ acting in the Bible was fully human and fully divine, which is different (but not "distinct") from the fully divine figure who was resent at creation.
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>>593937
>The first death is Sheol
So Adam simply introduced the ability to enter Sheol into the world? Adam was to "not die" and enter Heaven before the Fall?
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>>593969
>The Gnostics were lead astray
No, they started astray because they came from Platonism (they were founded by Simon Magus) and tried to incorporate Christ into it. They saw the material world as Platonist do (and incorporate Platonic forms into Christianity, which is improper). The "world" in Christianity is not synonymous with "the material".
>A6h: Saint Nikitas Stithatos said, in On the Practice of the Virtues (it’s in the Philokalia): “If you refer the activities of the outer senses back to their inner counterparts - exposing your sight to the intellect, the beholder of the light of life, your hearing to the judgment of the soul, your taste to the discrimination of the intelligence, your sense of smell to the understanding of the intellect, and relating your sense of touch to the watchfulness of the heart - you will lead an angelic life on earth; while being and appearing as a man among men, you will also be an angel coexisting with angels and spiritually conscious in the same way as they are.” We worship with all five senses at Divine Liturgy, doctrine is expressed not just in writing, but pictorially, and to the other senses as well The material and the spiritual are complementary, they are not separate places, but different dimensions which properly intersect (“Five senses characterize the ascetic life: vigilance, meditation, prayer, self-control and stillness.
cont
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>>594013
>Once you have linked your five outward senses to them, joining sight to vigilance, hearing to meditation, smell to prayer, taste to self-control and touch to stillness. you will swiftly purify your soul's intellect: refining it by means of them, you will make it dispassionate and visionary.” ibid.); hell and heaven are actually different terms for the same dimension (see Ephesians 6:12, which says overtly that our struggle is not against the material, but against the dark spirits who inhabit heaven, also see A6 of this FAQ for the Orthodox conception of hell and how it is the same as heaven); the fall impaired the harmony of these two dimensions, but it will be restored after the restoration of all thing--in fact, the only issue is that we can’t see that we are in heaven, because hamartia clouds our ability to detect it; to quote Dostoevsky, “We don't understand that life is heaven, for we have only to understand that and it will at once be fulfilled in all its beauty, we shall embrace each other and weep.”.Hamartia is a lie (the Devil is the “Father of all lies”). Christianity is not Gnosticism. “World” in Christianity is a translation of kόσμος (kosmos), which means order...as in, the order of being enslaved to carnal good and evil (see A5 of this FAQ, and: http://deathtotheworld.com/about/ ), which means the material rules us rather than vice versa. The material realm is γῆ (gé), generally translated as “earth”, it’s never used negatively. See the significance of the word here: http://biblehub.com/greek/1093.htm
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>>593969
>No, not simply a Body. The Bible does not describe him as Flesh.
Body is flesh with spirit.

>>594009
Adam died and went to Sheol.

Heaven and the material were not distinct before the fall.
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>>594020
I'll add that trying to glorify the spirit to exclusion of the body is just as Satanic as trying to glorify the flesh in to the exclusion of the spirit.
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I am not a Christian, so it makes sense.
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>>594013
The scriptures are incredibly clear about who controls this world. You, and everything, are under the control of Satan unless you reject him for Jesus. Gnostic theology is simply a corrupted version of this reality.

>>594020
>Body is Flesh with Spirit
So Flesh and Spirit are not identical? Otherwise you wild say Body is Flesh with Flesh or Body is Spirit with Spirit?
>Adam died and went to Sheol.
Before Adam sinned, would he have gone to Sheol or lived in Eden forever?
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>>594047
Aside from pre-fall Adam and Eve and New Jerusalem there is no such thing as a Body from heaven. All of them are gifts from God, but corrupted by Satan. A true Body will be given to true believers after the Last Day.
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>>594055
>The scriptures are incredibly clear about who controls this world.
The "world" in Scripture doesn't mean "the material" though.

>So Flesh and Spirit are not identical?
They are both you, and properly there should be no distinction. There only is one (and it is a deception) because of the fall.

>Before Adam sinned, would he have gone to Sheol or lived in Eden forever?
He would have lived in Eden forever, which fully intersected with heaven.
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>>594062
Spirits can also be corrupted, see demons. You might get a "new body" in some sort of sense, but it could be made out of the same molecules as your old body, or however you want to look at it. You get a body like Christ had post Resurrection.
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>>594066
>the world
Is Satan's domain, which is the entire physical realm that is not claimed by God and all of the spritual realm that the physical realm stems from. Anything touched by sin belongs to Satan.

>no distinction
Again, if there were no distinction Genesis would have a description of what stage in his life cycle the Logos was as it participated in Creation.

>Eden was heaven
God creates Heaven and Earth in the Beginning. Why would he need to create Eden separately, If you don't seem to find a distinction?
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>>594081
>which is the entire physical realm
No
>gḗ – properly, the physical earth; (figuratively) the "arena" we live in which operates in space and time which God uses to prepare us for eternity.
http://biblehub.com/greek/1093.htm

>Again, if there were no distinction Genesis would have a description of what stage in his life cycle the Logos was as it participated in Creation.
It describes God walking around in Eden.

>Why would he need to create Eden separately, If you don't seem to find a distinction?
Okay, maybe a distinction, but not a dichotomy. The material and the spiritual are like distinct dimensions, is what I mean, like right-left, up-down. But within a space you don't say, "this is the right-left of the space, as distinct from its up-down",
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>>594093
btw, the world isn't just in the physical, it is in the spiritual realm as well. The world is a particular ordering of things. You can be in the physical but not of the world, and in the spiritual and not of the world.
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>>592170
Islam is better and not as controlled by the Jews
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>>594102
>being controlled by the House of Saud is better
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>>594093
The world is the entire arena that we prove ourselves. If you are being really pendantic, you can say The World includes "the earth plus the moon" for any sins that occurred on Luna.

>It describes God walking around in Eden.
If the Logos were subject to human concerns such as puberty, it would mention that.

>But within a space you don't say, "this is the right-left of the space, as distinct from its up-down",
You do in any context requiring precision.
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>>594128
>The world is the entire arena that we prove ourselves. If you are being really pendantic, you can say The World includes "the earth plus the moon" for any sins that occurred on Luna.
"World" is a translation of the Greek word for "order". "Earth" is the term used to describe the material dimension, just as "heaven" is used to describe the spiritual dimension.. The world is Satan's order of things, the post-fall order. There is a post-fall order in heaven as well. "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places."
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>>594128
>You do in any context requiring precision.
But I think you understand what I'm saying. A box is not just its "up-down".
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>>594107
M8 not even most Saudis follow Wahhabis anymore and an increasing number of mosques are kicking them off their committees
The term wobbler is brilliant for pricking their self esteem
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>>594169
By "Saudi" do you mean the family, or Arabians?
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>>594151
Then the darkness is able to infiltrate most secular events. I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore.
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>>594199
But the darkness doesn't *permeate* the material (as God's love does), it only cloaks it in lie.
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>>594206
That cloak is strong enough that someone who believes the physical world is inherently evil isn't incorrect, they just accidentally got caught up in the surface darkness rather than the underlying light.
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>>594210
They didn't get caught up, they got it from Plato, who was pretty contemptuous of the material.
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>>594225
So they were tempted by a worldly institution that wished to lead them away from a truth they were dangerously close to discovering?
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>>594229
No, they started from a worldly institution, and then encountered Christianity, and tried to incorporate into their institution by distorting it until it would fit.
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>>594234
You cannot start from a worldly institution and come so close to criticizing Satan's plan. They simply started from Godly wisdom corrupted by Satan as tradition (which Mystery Babylon and Orthodox hold as sacred) and it became a false religion over time.
>>
>>594248
Idea that the creator of the material is evil, is not remotely Godly.
>>
>>594252
The creator of the material is Godly. The shaper of out material world is Satanic. Every single thing that had occurred after the Fall has been the will of Satan, unless the person involved has been in a state sinlessness to God the Father (either by animal sacrifice or by Jesus). Satan is the God of this world.
>>
>>594262
> Every single thing that had occurred after the Fall has been the will of Satan,
You can't be serious.

No, Gnosticism is crypto-Satanism. It even says the fall was precipitated by Sophia (which is synonymous with the Word in Christianity).
>>
>>594272
>You can't be serious.
Yes I can. Satan only has authority over sin. The earth and every human soul is in a state of sin as a result of Adam. Satan therefore has authority over the entire physical realm and all non-saved souls. This is why Catholics and Orthodox are so protective of their pagan goddesses.

By the way, I never said Gnosticism was correct. Only that they had correct ideas hijacked by Satan. Similar to how veneration of Mary is a good idea (an example of a person who submitted to the will of God) turned evil (worshipping said person.) The idea of a false god lbs iron a real God is true, it's just that Satan obscured the identity of the real and false god. Simular to how your idolatry is obscured.
>>
>>594272
Gnostic texts aren't referring to the Christian Fall when they talk about Sophia falling.
>>
>>594301
So everything done physically is done according to Satan's will?

Veneration of Mary is just how elders and mothers were venerated before modernism, it was part of honoring them,
>>
>>594317
They are referring to their equivalent of it.
>>
>>593740
Don't Orthodox think Jesus existed before Mary gave birth to his carnal form?

Also

>mother of church
>bride of church

Getting kinfaa incestuous aren't we
>>
>>594325
I'll point out again, that the Ark of the Old Covenant was venerated (Joshua 7:6), so it would be bizarre not to venerate the Ark of the New Covenant just as highly, in fact a higher veneration would be proper.
>>
>>594325
Everything done not in a state of Frace is the will of Satan, the God of this World.

Honoring your physical father and mother is fine. Honoring a statue or icon of them is not.
>>
>>594336
>>593415
>>593417

The term "Bride of the Church" is not used afaik.
>>
>>594340
Q3a: Concerning the distinction between icons and idols being merely semantic.

A3a: The word “idol” comes from the Greek word εἶδος (eidos) (this is the word Plato uses, commonly translated as “form”). The word “icon” comes from the Greek word εἰkών (eikón). The Septuagint says God created man in his own icon, not his own idol. An icon is a reflection of something, like in a mirror or on a skype screen. Theologically, an icon can also be seen as a window. There is nothing wrong with kissing or bowing to these things, since they are not idols. This is why Orthodox icons are never statues, because a window or a reflection are flat, and kissing an icon is like that, it’s not like kissing the actual person.
>>
>>594350
>God created
>not Man created
Feel free to venerste any idol in Genesis.
>>
>>594353
The Ark of the Covenant is a good example of a religious icon from the OT.

Q3: Concerning the prohibition of graven images in worship.

A3: The word in the commandments is פֶּ֫סֶל (pesel), whereas צֶ֫לֶם (tselem) is what man himself is (God did not create man in his own pesel, but in his own tselem). This distinction is translated as εἶδος and εἰkών, which are the sources of English words “idol” and “icon”. Before God came down in human form, pictorial representation of him would be impossible, so instead the icon of him was the tablets with the Ten Commandments on them (later on, the Torah).
>>
>>594356
That's nice. If you ever find a ritually purified Jew able to approach a purified Ark, they are able to "venerate" it. Until that time, you cannot.
>>
>>594369
We are purified by Confession and Christ's Blood.
>>
>>594174
Really both - the family don't follow the whabbi clerics beyond lip service and ordinary Saudis def don't
>>
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>>593133
>using the King James version
>>
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>>592170
History is my excuse mother fucker
>>
>>594340
May I remind you that armies worldwide hold memorial services for dead soldiers. They salute them and even put flowers on their memorials.

Is that idolatry asshole?
>>
>>594301
Protestants and Gnostics have so much in common

>Rejection of the significance and Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

>Conflicting views and interpretations

>No basis in the Apostles and inability to even trace a lineage or show a consistent body that shared their beliefs that existed prior

>Rejection of free will

>Sola Fide
>>
>>593931
I'm an Ausfalian m80
>>
>>592170
Reminder that Prosestards base their faith on bible and bible only. Except most of their bibles are not translated from the source material but from King's James Bible, which contained around 400 errors and were printed to hell and beyond by unknown printers who messed shit up whole the time.
>>
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>>592170
"To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."
>>
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>>595393
That is sick burn.

(good thing being deep in history isn't necessary for salvation)
>>
>>595471
Good thing that would show how false Protestantism is as well.
>>
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>>595493
We prefer the term "Reformed."
>>
>>595502
Which of course simply shows how false it is.

We know that because the very beliefs of the first Christians are in opposition to that of the disgusting Reformed heretics
>>
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>>595502
>>
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>>595534
The very beliefs of the first Christians are recorded in holy scripture which is precisely why Reformed Christianity is the closest in spirit to the early church.

Do you really think Jesus had the flipping Vatican in mind when he was preaching about the Kingdom of Heaven? Give me a break.
>>
>>595540
>Ignatius of Antioch
I swear his forged donation of constantine was what pushed the german princes to luther
>>
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>>595540
>>
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>>595555
>>
>>595551
Nope as ANS Lane had pointed out>>594944, this is already bullshit.

We have no Sola Scriptura in Early Christianity. And we also know for sure that Paul is no Reformed dindu as the so called 'new' Perspective shows which lines up with what the Church Fathers soon after have to say about Salvation and shit, making this here a shit statement.

>>595555
Ignatius of Antioch is a late first and early 2nd century Bishop who had been a student of John. He has no connection with the Donation of Constantine.
>>
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>>595586
Are you Hebrew?
>>
>>595592
What am I is irrelevant.

Here, more of Protestantism being BTFOed by history,


>After all, in their exegesis the early Church theologians neither received the Bible as a 'Bible without notes' nor interpreted it in a vacuum. They received along with the Bible a tradition of interpreting it for a worshipping community and they proceeded to interpret it for a worshipping community. The study of the Bible as a scientific discipline to be carried on for its own sake was very far from their thought, and at all times has been, one suspects, a mere will-o'-the-wisp. This does not mean that the Fathers sacrificed everything for the sake of the edification of the faithful or for the consistent articulation of a doctrinal system. They sacrificed too much for these ends, but they were not unconscious of limits and controls on this process imposed by the Bible itself. Their purpose in exegesis was nevertheless purely practical, and we do not understand their exegesis until we understand this. They began the story of the Church's relations with the Bible, in which the Bible and the life of the Church were to interact for all the centuries to come, each correcting, deepening, fertilising the other. They inaugurated the Church's dance with the Bible, fancifully perhaps, but not irresponsibly, perhaps erratically, but at least gaily.-Cambridge History of the Bible, pg 453
>>
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>>595608
That's a yes.

Nice scribe quote btw.
>>
>>595622
Protestants are super merchant, though. They were the first Christians to embrace usury.
>>
>>593250
muh feels
>>
>>595622
I don't care because I just shown how much of a bull Protestantism is and that's good enough for me goy.
>>
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>>595633
>forgetting the Knights Templar
>shiggy
>>
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>>595640
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
- Matthew 12:34
>>
>>592170
Why this topic of religion is into /his/ ?
>>
>>595650
The vipers are the Protestants.
>>
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>>595658
No they are quite literally the Jews:

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
- Matthew 3:7
>>
>>595669
And their modern version, the Protestants who preach false doctrine/
>>
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>>595679
The modern descendants of the Pharisees and Sadducees are Rabbinical Jews.

Oy gevalt this is not even debatable. . .
>>
>>595688
But that doesn't make Protestantism any more true so I don't care.
>>
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>>595697
Jesus Christ is the Truth.
>>
>>595688
Karaite are the modern descendants of the Sadducees.

And if Catholics are the Pharisees of Christianity, Protestants are definitely the Sadducees, the Sadducee position is literally sola scriptura.
>>
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>>595730
>if
>>
>>593004
Hey, I'm just starting the process of converting to Orthodoxy, and I just want to say that this is a good resource for people in that position, thank you.
>>
>>595980
No problem, brother. Best of love to you, the Lord be with you.
>>
>>592170
I don't want to piss on the graves of my ancestors
>>
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>>595991
Bowing to the Papacy is what ruined our country.

They wholeheartedly supported British rule in Éire.

Laudabiliter was the start of it. The Maynooth Grant intensified it.
>>
The thing about Protestantism is that it assumes "faith" is some tangible feeling that you need to have in order to have salvation, when it's scientifically proven that the tendency to feel what is called "religious faith" depends on a lot of factors and a lot of people can probably never feel it.

Traditional Christianity doesn't rely on muh feelings and is about sanctification. Just because you can't get rid of rational doubt in the truth of the Gospel, doesn't mean you're forever damned, you can still do your very best and avoid sin.
Some of the most venerated saints in Christian tradition had serious doubts about the truth of Christianity. Faith is like love, it comes and goes, at first it feels like you can do anything and have infinite motivation, but eventually you need to pull your own effort too.
>>
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Because i've studied the history of Christianity, and even with the descendants of the ancient bishops not being in communion with one another for a lot of centuries, they still look a lot like each other and what the ancient texts describe the ancient churches functioned than anything protestantism has come up with.
>>
>>592170
I know this question isn't on topic. Why did Jesus call himself the Son of Man? He literally wasn't a son of a physical man.
>>
>>596672
>The thing about Protestantism is that it assumes "faith" is some tangible feeling that you need to have in order to have salvation,

No it doesn't, stop shitposting and go speak about how atheists get into heaven you chatolicuck.
>>
>>596817
>Why did Jesus call himself the Son of Man?
No one knows exactly.
Most common interpretation is that it's related to the Hypostatic Union, that He's fully divine(Son of God) and fully human(Son of Man).
Others interpretation say it's a title derived from the Old Testament(Daviel), because Christians are big on foreshadowing Christ there, or a general or parental idiom.
>>
>>592170
>269 replies.
We really do need a separate humanities board.
>>
>>596860
Why? This board seems pretty dead, I think there is enough space for both history and humanities
>>
>>596875
Because it's a weird mix of 2 unrelated terms and (anti)religious shitposting is filling the whole thing and getting annoying.
History in one place, and philo+religion in another would be much better.
>>
>>596823
It does, though. You are saved if you literally feel some intense emotion about Christ. The system inherently lies on emotions, instead of behavior.
>>
>>596823
You are right because Sola Fide means God mind controlling you to have the feeling to begin with. To the Reformers, even the 'faith' itself is from God.
>>
>>596883
>You are saved if you literally feel some intense emotion about Christ. The system inherently lies on emotions, instead of behavior.
Calvin called, he wants you to stop talking shit about Christ. Literary everyone and their mother can have an interpretation of Christianity and it's not Catholicism, orthodox or another cult already existing, it's protestantism.

Protestantism is the "primal" Christianity, it's where you start, before you join a cult. Everyone who picks up a bible and think "hey this is interesting" is a protestant before they decide that a guy in Rome or the like should tell you how to think.
>>
>>596916
>Everyone who picks up a bible and think "hey this is interesting" is a protestant
Actually non-denominatonal. Protestantism implies willfully accepting a number of theological concepts by definition.
>>
>>596916
Calvin also believed that all human beings are mere puppets without free will. Nothing a human being does matters as that human being is never in control of anything in the first place. It's all God pulling the strings.

No Church Father and even the fucking Bible ever state this, otherwise all the punishments and warnings given would be fucking pointless.

In fact, Protestantism becomes bullshit the moment one decides to pick up any scholarly publication on Early Christianity.

>After all, in their exegesis the early Church theologians neither received the Bible as a 'Bible without notes' nor interpreted it in a vacuum. They received along with the Bible a tradition of interpreting it for a worshipping community and they proceeded to interpret it for a worshipping community. The study of the Bible as a scientific discipline to be carried on for its own sake was very far from their thought, and at all times has been, one suspects, a mere will-o'-the-wisp. This does not mean that the Fathers sacrificed everything for the sake of the edification of the faithful or for the consistent articulation of a doctrinal system. They sacrificed too much for these ends, but they were not unconscious of limits and controls on this process imposed by the Bible itself. Their purpose in exegesis was nevertheless purely practical, and we do not understand their exegesis until we understand this. They began the story of the Church's relations with the Bible, in which the Bible and the life of the Church were to interact for all the centuries to come, each correcting, deepening, fertilising the other. They inaugurated the Church's dance with the Bible, fancifully perhaps, but not irresponsibly, perhaps erratically, but at least gaily.-Cambridge History of the Bible, pg 453
>>
>>596921
If you believe in Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura you are by definition a Protestant like it or not.

Protestants are heretics.
>>
>>596931
>If you believe in Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura you are by definition a Protestant like it or not.
Except he is talking about some random guy that decided to read the Bible and he is thinking to himself that it has some truth to it. He probably hasn't accepted 95% of the Nicene Creed, rejection of the authority of the Roman See and the 2 solas on top of that from the get go.
>Protestants are heretics.
Agreed.
>>
>>596945
I haven't made any definite statements about that anon's beliefs only that if he believe in Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura, he is a Protestant.

And Protcucks are heretics.
>>
>>596955
>only that if he believe in Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura, he is a Protestant.
Thank you, captain obvious.
Your contribution is very appreciated.
>>
>>596817
He was of Adam as we all are.
>>
>>596968
Good now time to spread open your legs and let me into your pucci
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