Which historical leader is the ultimate "chaotic good"?

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>>588743
Not that one, that's for fucking sure.
>pic related

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America, leader of the world

>>588746
Pinochet did nothing wrong. Lawful Good all the way

"Sometimes, democracy must be bathed in blood"

>>588743
Lenin, Trotsky, Makhno, Tito.

>>588746
Nice meme.
Nothing Pinochet did he did for good intentions, he was a dictatorial puppet of the west holding power for his own glory and he knew it.

Lenin for example on the other hand actually thought he was building a better world for the people and actually despised any idea of cults of personality, despite being fucking frozen in time today, his death wishes were to be basically thrown into the trash because the Revolution is not one man and he doesn't really matter if hes dead.

>>588774
>Lenin for example on the other hand actually thought he was building a better world for the people
And yet had anyone remotely suspected of being a reactionary killed, setting a good example for Uncle Joe :^)

>>588776
He was in the middle of an all out global invasion where the entire world was trying to massacre the Socialists.

In that time, extreme measures had to be taken. Not that the Red Terror isn't an atrocity, but it completely makes sense in the context of the time when you had almost every global power have armies marching on St Petersberg and Moscow.

>>588774
Ahhh... the little tanky thinks he's actually people and that his opinions mean anything. That's so sweet.

Now run home to mommy back in Marin County and tell her ALL about how you stuck it to the imperialist oppressors on 4chan!

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>>588780
>In that time, extreme measures had to be taken.

That's the weak justification of every tyrant in history.

Lenin is dancing in the fires of hell right now, writhing in agony as worms crawl out his eyesockets, as he pleads in vain for Saint Nicholas II to bring water down to him on his fingers.

>>588785
>Tankie

I don't think you know what that means.

What Tankie would list Tito or Makhno as good?

>>588802
The one who would list Lenin and Trotsky...
>GAIZ! HEY GAIZ! I Posted these brutal, repressive dictators but I put up a less repressive dictator and a meme anarchist so It's all good.

Holy fuck you are pathetic. Somedays, I wonder if you guys can even be called sentient.

>>588743
Alcibiades
Nero according to some newer studies

>>588800
>That's the weak justification of every tyrant in history.

>Literally every notable country on earth is invading you while idiots are refusing to produce anything because of "muh council communism democracy" and peasants are like "Lol wheres our bread and land already? it's been like two weeks!" while armies are massacring tens of thousands of innocent people, razing entire towns and cities and engaging in mass rape.

Factionalism and petty internal politics loses wars like that, imagine if British workers staged a mass strike during the Battle of Britain.

The idea that Lenin is pure evil ignores that "War Communism" was rescinded after the "civil war" ended, social rights were largely restored (including going further than most western countries as things like gay marraige and polyamoury were legalized) and Lenin began planning and enacting the NEP which allowed more freedom in commerce and civilian markets.

Calling the Russian Civil War a Civil War is a complete misnomer, it was a global invasion of Russia, extreme measures had to be taken to protect the Revolution.

>>588815
Definitely Nero.

>>588815
>Nero according to some newer studies
>Burning alive and crucifying members of a religious minority is good

No

>>588809
Why would Tankies even list Trotsky? Tankies are fucking Stalinists you moron.

Why would I support the crushing of the working class cooperative councils of Hungary fighting against the corruption of Socialism by Stalin and his successors?

Again, you don't know what Tankie even means.

>>588817
>extreme measures had to be taken to protect the Revolution.

And all those innocents killed were just the casualties of the revolution!

I'm not going to defend what the white faction did. But equally, I'll condemn what the Reds did to people. I don't care about the revolution, and I'm willing to bet their victims staring down at the mass grave they were about to be a part of didn't care that much either. If your political movement requires you to defend the murder of children because their parents are a threat to your power, then please reconsider your morals. They're inverted.

I'm only sorry that Lenin, Stalin, and many of their cronies had to wait until the next life to face justice.

>>588819
>>Burning alive and crucifying members of a religious minority is good
>implying it isn't

>>588743
Someone like Thomas Jefferson, who favoured a decentralized government focusing on individuals' pursuits based on believing it was beneficial?

>>588827
Anyone other than a Christian in much of the western world is a religious minority. If I were to start crucifying atheists, many would start objecting. For good reasons.

>>588800
> Saint Nicholas II
Yeah, that guy who gave order to shoot peacfull demonstration, didn't give a fuck about bloody mess that his coronation turned in, refused to perform real constitutional reforms, involved his country into several wars for which they were not ready and tried to ran from responsibility to clean the mess Russia turned in during WW1 by abdicate. Some call him saint, some call him villian, but in fact he was just useless pathetic prick.

>>588822
Yeah, but it can be applied more broadly. And again... Tito and Lenin.

I think we need more DnD alignment threads on this board today. Well done OP!

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Saved the republic by going against convention.
>muh marius hate
He SAVED the republic, it doesn't matter that there were long term repercussions that MIGHT have made the empire appear faster, if he didn't make the choices he made, there would be no Rome left.

>>588817

well then maybe Lenin shouldn't have overthrown the first democratic government to appear in Russia since the 15th century before it could even hold an election, and maybe he shouldn't have defaulted on an 8,000,000,000 ruble debt to Russia's allies.

>>588774
Lenin wasn't that idealist he is depicted as. He was much more of a scheming and ruthless politician than an ideologue; his doctrine is basically a strategy of how to adapt Marxism in order to make it a methodology for seizing power.
Lenin is lawful evil as it gets. Even Stalin wasn't as purely malicious as him.

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muh stability

>>588743
Che Guevara

>>589331
>I'm a stale ass loser the post

You have the most provincial mind in history ever.

>>588847
As his cousin Wilhelm II said of him, "He was a man fit to live in a country house and grow turnips."

>>588746
12 years old post

>>588746
Pinochet literally never did anything good

>>588776
His death count was trivial compared to Pinochet's

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Mosley is the only correct answer

>>591585
Lawful evil

>>591585
Chaotic Neutral

>>592549
>>592557
We need a /his/ morality chart now

>>588774
Epic lol @ you if you think any politicians genuinely believe in their cause and have good intentions

>>591585

Do you really have to jerk it to this irrelevant failure in every single thread?

>>591060

Communists were the biggest losers of the 20th century.

>>592628
Nah, fascism was beaten out of any existence

>>592628
>>592710
Gotta agree, Hitler and Mussolini got beaten so badly fascism became a naughty word

Jesus

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>"chaotic good" thread
>entirely /his/ arguing over their 20th century dictatorfus

Come on

>>592710

touche

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>>592564

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>>588743
"My people must lead the Arab World in health, technology, and living standards....

...at the expense of Persian lives."

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>>588743

I'm not even really left wing, but I want to at least Castro for invading Angola out of nowhere and ultimately helping end apartheid

>>592884

meant to say "at least mention Castro"

>>592822
>Posts a statue checking dubs
>Gets dubs
The absolute madman

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>>592884
>helping end apartheid
>good

>>588774
>Nothing Pinochet did he did for good intentions, he was a dictatorial puppet of the west holding power for his own glory and he knew it.

What did you actually know about the history of Chile to say that? You probably just read some Noam Chomsky or Howard Zinn acount on the "evil CIA" and how it single-handedly installed Pinochet as dictator of Chile against the will of 100% of the Chilean people.

We need our own axis

>good/evil

Fun stuff for shitposting but these dont exist

>>588817
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Expeditionary_Force_Siberia

>Unlike his Allied counterparts, General Graves believed their mission in Siberia was to provide protection for American-supplied property and to help the Czechoslovak Legions evacuate Russia, and that it did not include fighting against the Bolsheviks. Repeatedly calling for restraint, Graves often clashed with commanders of British, French and Japanese forces, who also had troops in the region and who wanted him to take a more active part in the military intervention in Siberia.

Worst invasion ever.

>>592884
He also invaded Ethiopia and contributed to the Red Terror there that killed 500.000 people, besides the famine in the 80s.

But hey, let's not remember that, Castro is one of the good guys.

>>588819
That shit propaganda. He probably lynched christians in the arena t show pagan favoritsm, but i bet most of his criticism is exxageration.

Macarthur chaotic neutral

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>>592916

o darn, actually didn't know that one :(

>>592846
Kek, who's laughing now.

>>592916
Not only that, but the regime he propped up in Ethiopia fucked the country up so bad, it's still trying to recover 20 years later.

>>588774
>Makhno
tbqh that's the only good example given in this thread. In general, only anarchists, and even then only a small minority of them would qualify.
Another, from the right wing, might be Gabriele D'Annunzio, even though he broke so many hearts. Regardless, Regency of Carnaro must have been an epic place to visit, with constant parades and parties.

How it is:

Lawful Good = Hitler - Peter the Great
Lawful Neutral = Pinochet - Trump
Lawful Evil = Stalin - Napoleon
Neutral Good = Ronald Reagan - Tito
True Neutral = Putin - Patton
Neutral Evil = Lenin - MLK
Chaotic Good = Huey Long
Chaotic Neutral = Obama - McArthur
Chaotic Evil = Trotsky

>>595967
Gandhi in Chaotic Good and Pope Francis in Chaotic Evil.

Also Jesus (although he wasn't a ruler in the Earth he's a ruler in heaven) is between Lawful Good and Neutral Good.

Hitler

>>595976
Gandhi was Lawful Neutral, at best. He was a religious fanatic.

>>595967
>mlk neutral evil
?

>>596028
Commie.

>>595967
The Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot on Chaotic Evil too.

>>588802
That's irrelevant.

For example, no hardline Stalinist actually supported sending tanks - initially, that was Khruschev's idea, who was infamously anti-Stalinist.

>>596032
>not being a /pol/tard makes you a commie.

Oh you.

>>588743
>Lenin
>Chaotic Good
>Creator of one of the largest totalitarian states in history
lol

>>596201
No, I think he's saying MLK was evil because he had some contact with members of the Communist Party.

In my opinion, the greatest leader to ever grace the face of this planet was Otto Von Bismark of the former nation state of Prussia and German Empire of 1848-1893 of course though, he wasn't the emperor. But as chancellor he was an amazing architect for real politik. I believe that if it weren't for him, then neither Germany nor Italy for that matter, would have been unified in the mid to late 19th century. If I spelled anything wrong please correct me, thanks for your time everyone :)

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It wasn't a sincere good but the intention was there and it was a fucking mess.

>>591585

Lawful Good = George Washington
Neutral Good = Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
Chaotic Good = Frederick the Great

Lawful Neutral = Thomas Jefferson
True Neutral = Winston Churchill
Chaotic Neutral = Vladimir Lenin

Lawful Evil = Oswald Mosley
Neutral Evil = Francisco Franco
Chaotic Evil = Pol Pot

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>>588743

ma boy Luther here

>>596286
> Churchill
> not Evil
Google a bit about his innovative politics in India.

>>596286
>ataturkroach
>good
pick none

>>588856
no it can't you idiot. Tankie specifically refers to stalinists who supported the supression of the revolts in czechoslovakia and hungary, more broadly it refers to every stalinist.
Fucking hell I have yet to see a tankie who likes Tito

>>596416
Stalinists were no longer in power, after Khruschev came to power.

Google 20th Congress of CPSU.

>>596390
He is dedicated himself to remove kebab

>>596286
>oswald mosley
not lawful good

>>596201
>implying I visit /pol/

Tbh all communists are faggots and I didn't learn that through /pol/

[spoiler] I learned about hitler in a bar at the uni [/spoiler]

>>596483
>Stalinists were no longer in power, after Khruschev came to power.
>Google 20th Congress of CPSU.
Google the anti-party bloc

>>596483
>Khruschev
He was Ukrainian patriot, he cut off pieces of lands of Soviet Union for Ukraine (UkSSR). But modern Ukrainians hate them.

>>595967
>Napoleon
>Lawful Evil

Nigga you what?

>>591567
He did plenty of good things.

Everytime a communist was tossed from a helicopter, the world became a slightly better place.

>>596811
>I learned about hitler in a bar at the uni
Soooo... what you're saying is that you belong on /pol/?

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>>588743
George Walker Bush

>>588817
>including going further than most western countries as things like gay marraige and polyamoury were legalized

SO TOLERANT :')

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>>588817

>gay marriage was legalized

how fucking high are you?

>>596223

He had a lot more Republican and Democratic contacts. Get this, he fucking had secret meetings with Johnson - the Supreme Allied Commander of Democrats.

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>>596811
>I learned about hitler in a bar at the uni

George W Bush

>>589313
Sulla as well