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Ideology is a subconcious fantasy that structures...
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

Thread replies: 32
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What did he meme by this?
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Is this a result of all the social constructs that we live in shaping our world?
Or is this more of a case of people saying things and presenting them as fact I;e The jews caused 9/11 and I can't understand the science behind it therefore it must be true.

Or is it something else all together
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>>584803
Fantasies in lacan protect the subject from the other, they're defence mechanisms of an incomplete action. Ideology is what protects the proletariat from having to enact communism.
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>>584858

Could you explain that last part, please?
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>>584858
When Zizek uses ideology does he mean it just as political ideology or does he use the word synonymously with beliefs?
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>>584876
proletariat is kind of like working class, the people whose only value is their labour
Mainly industrial types, like truck drivers and labourers and scho on
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>>584876
The proletariat, the collective subject of history, makes use of ideology (a series of fantasies) to protect themselves from completing the action of desire on the other. The other being here material reality.

Workers make up little stories about "their good boss" or "The Labour Party" or "Christ" to prevent themselves from having to confront the horrifying real: the immanent possibility of them running production in their own interest.

>>584882
Žižek means ideology in the Marxist sense but with a great deal of Lacanian ideas about "the image".
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>>584888

Sorry, I should've been more specific; I was confused about the ideologies part. Thank you for your response though, always nice to hear another's definition.

>>584894

So the first step towards communism is acceptance of reality?
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>>584894
Could this be extended for conspiracy theories?
For example "Lizard people control the world, as a way of dealing with the fact that ordinary people control the world"
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>>584888
>Mainly industrial types, like truck drivers and labourers and scho on
Nope.

The proletariat is the working class coming into a consciousness of its own power. It can be any wage labourer, productive or unproductive, as long as their pay is less than the value they add or costs they save (respectively).

Marx gives the explicit example of teachers as proletarian when producing value.
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>>584927
>It can be any wage labourer, productive or unproductive, as long as their pay is less than the value they add or costs they save (respectively).
Oh right that makes a lot of sense
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>>584922
Yes! Lizard people are those amongst us who seem "unalienated" from knowing and controlling reality.

It is a fantasy of resentment towards trade unionists and bosses.
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>>584927

What if the value is subjective, as in music? Or politics?
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>>584920
>So the first step towards communism is acceptance of reality?

Yes. But the real is terrifying. Imagine, if you and your workmates formed a union, that formed other unions, and if you shot your boss, you would be running EVERYTHING together democratically tomorrow. Because you CURRENTLY RUN EVERYTHING.

Zizek seems to believe that the proletariat can come to a symbolic knowledge of the real through the party. I disagree. I think the proletariat can directly experience reality through collective praxis—ie, to know reality through class struggle. But that's because I prefer Harry Cleaver's Reading Capital Politically to mister sniffy man.
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>>584964
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>>584943
>What if the value is subjective, as in music? Or politics?
Value has a VERY specific meaning to Marxists. It is the flow of money into commodities used to produce further commodities which are converted to money, commodities being a use (a reason to buy) and a value expressed as a price.

New value is only produced by labour (including the labour of capitalists in planning production and bullying workers), and labour transforms old value into new forms (coal into coke for example).
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>>584858
>Ideology is what protects the proletariat from having to enact communism
>Ideology is what other people do whenever they aren't following my preferred ideology
Pure Ideology.
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Ideology isn't fantasy, it manifests.
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>>584947
>>584976

Thanks for the explainations, Anon.
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>>585016
Yes, that's the attempt to possess objet petit a
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>>585040
>objet petit a
What does that mean is that even english?
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>>585007
What if I told you that Communism is a bourgeois ideology too…
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>>585047
http://nosubject.com/index.php?title=Objet_(petit)_a

It is the reason why you fap to traps without knowing why.
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>>585077
I thought degrading fetishes were a way to get pleasure from the thing you feared most

Is that the premise?
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>>584943
All value is subjective.
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>>585089
It is Lacan's premise for all male desire.
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This is one quote from Zizek that has helped me in understanding his discussions of ideology:

>The function of ideology is not to offer us a point of escape from our reality but to offer us the social reality itself as an escape
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So what the the "reality" of the world without ideology?
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>>585077
Is a a way to explain why people develop certain "communist" practices? Like food co-ops, couch surfing and care sharing? Maybe even file-sharing? Cause this is what came to my mind reading this.
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>>585847
Another ideology. There is no way out.
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>>585847
The real is the terrifying and unsymbolisable horror of uncontrollable material reality.
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