ITT: /lawful good/ historical persons. Starting with an obvious one.

>>582674
Caesar.

>>582854
>Caesar.

More like Brutus tbqh

>>582674
Bismarck

>>582914
>Brutus
>lawful good
>conspired against and murdered his friend and leader in cold blood

What is the point of a humanities board on 4chan, if no one who comes here actually knows anything?

>>582998
>implying Brutus wasn't the greatest patriot of the roman republic

>>582674
More like lawful neutral.
Lawful good would be someone like Plato or Aquinas.
Chaotic good is Albert Camus.
Neutral good is Adam Smith.
Pure neutral... Hmmm...Stoics? Maybe Augustine fits here in a way.
Chaotic neutral is Michel Foucault or someone like that.
Lawful evil is Joseph de Maistre, also Hobbes according to certain readings.
Chaotic evil is Marquis de Sade.
Neutral evil is Machiavelli.

>>583048
>Marquis de Sade
>not Chaotic Neutral

Pure Neutral is Derrida.

>>583048
Here's a couple:
>chaotic good: rousseau (across the table from lawful evil hobbes)
>chaotic evil: nietzsche (across the table from lafwul good like plato or, say, kant)
>lawful neutral: locke

>>583098
>>chaotic good: rousseau (across the table from lawful evil hobbes)
Rousseau's Discourses and Confessions are CG, his Social Contract is LG.

Locke has a bit of neutral good in him. Or maybe it's just a facade; which makes him neutral evil I guess?

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>>582944
>realpolitik
>lawful good

>>583118
I thought he was being ironic desu

>>583098
Locke would be Lawful Good along with Kant. Hobbes is Lawful Neutral and Stirner could be Chaotic Evil for kicks.

Now to address the most important question: where would Marx go?

>>583136
neutral good, same as Rousseau and Mill

>>583136
Economic illiterate

>>583123
Kant is not lawful good ffs, he's the very personification of Ordnung.

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Chaotic Neutral popping in

>>583136
Retarded neutral.

burke: lawful neutral
schmitt: neutral evil

>>583162
Burke had chaotic elements too.

> I cannot stand forward and give praise or blame to anything which relates to human actions, and human concerns, on a simple view of the object, as it stands stripped of every relation, in all the nakedness and solitude of metaphysical abstraction. Circumstances (which with some gentlemen pass for nothing) give in reality to every political principle its distinguishing color and discriminating effect. The circumstances are what render every civil and political scheme beneficial or noxious to mankind. Abstractedly speaking, government, as well as liberty, is good; yet could I, in common sense, ten years ago, have felicitated France on her enjoyment of a government (for she then had a government) without inquiry what the nature of that government was, or how it was administered? Can I now congratulate the same nation upon its freedom? Is it because liberty in the abstract may be classed amongst the blessings of mankind, that I am seriously to felicitate a madman, who has escaped from the protecting restraint and wholesome darkness of his cell, on his restoration to the enjoyment of light and liberty? Am I to congratulate a highwayman and murderer who has broke prison upon the recovery of his natural rights? This would be to act over again the scene of the criminals condemned to the galleys, and their heroic deliverer, the metaphysic Knight of the Sorrowful Countenance.

>>582854
The fuck are you talking about? You mean Cato?

>>583035
Name a single beneficial aspect to his violent usurpation of Caesar's rome. Which was the strongest Rome has ever been btw

>>582674
>Good
>Kant

Immanuel Kant caused the Holocaust.

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>>582674

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Norman Borlaug

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Lawful good : The general

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>>583136
Lawful good: Eduard Bernstein
Neutral good: Nikolai Bukharin
Chaotic good: Tito
Lawful neutral: Zhou Enlai
True neutral: Karl Marx
Lawful evil: Antonio Gramsci
Netural evil: Lavrenty Beria
Chaotic evil: Herbert Marcuse

>>583400
>German civilians were all hiding their Jewish neighbors in their basements
>Nazis bang on their doors and demand to know where they are
>bound by the categorical imperative not to lie
>reveal their location
>Immanuel Kant is responsible for the deaths of six million Jews

>>583395
Faggot, u r stupid

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Maybe Chaotic Good or Neutral Good is more fitting.

>>583574
Gramsciposter is back

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Hammurabi

>>583048
>Machiavelli
>evil

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>>583844
my nigga b.frank was definitly lawful good

>wanted to free the slaves before it was cool
>experiments that furtherd our understanding of electricity
>smoked weed everyday

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Chaotic good

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Literally can't think of someone more worthy of the lawful good title.

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DING DING DING DING DING

There's a reason he's remembered as "Good King Henry."

>Henry IV proved to be a man of vision and courage. Instead of waging costly wars to suppress opposing nobles, Henry simply paid them off. As king, he adopted policies and undertook projects to improve the lives of all subjects, which made him one of the country's most popular rulers ever.Henry's forthright manner, physical courage, and military successes also contrasted dramatically with the sickly, effete languor of the last Valois kings, as evinced by his blunt assertion that he ruled with "weapon in hand and arse in the saddle. "He was also a great philanderer, fathering many children by a number of mistresses.

>>583950
The very embodiment of it, I'm certain

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My man Tom here had a locked down on the mob

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> A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal.

> Hey let's invite all those people to a dinner to discuss what we can do to calm people down so we can keep the Kalmar Union. You know what? Fuck that, let's spend a whole week doing nothing else execute everyone important in Sweden because fuck them that's why and let's sure we kill enough people that we crash this Kalmar Union with no survivors so it will be beyond repair for all eternity.

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> A lawful evil villain methodically takes what he wants within the limits of his code of conduct without regard for whom it hurts. He cares about tradition, loyalty, and order but not about freedom, dignity, or life. He plays by the rules but without mercy or compassion. He is comfortable in a hierarchy and would like to rule, but is willing to serve. He condemns others not according to their actions but according to race, religion, homeland, or social rank. He is loath to break laws or promises.

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His handling of the Newburgh Conspiracy is still one of the most remarkable moments in history for me.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Newburgh_address

>>583400
>>583583
The categorical imperative says shit about refusing to tell the truth. And Arendt (? or was it Anscombe?) thought that Nazis gave up their human rights by their actions. I guess they give up their right to be moral agents as well.

>>583395
lawful != beneficial

>>583939
>free the slaves
>lawful

Slavery is control, that is what laws do.

He is Chaotic for fucking sure.

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Always.

>>582914
>>583248
The only objective goods is serving Caesar and serving Rome
Caesar did both.

>>585239
Cesar revolted against Rome and fuked the senate

>>585243
But it served Caesar, which is just as (or more) important than Rome

>>585252
But Ceasar wasn't "Ceasar" back then, he was just a dude with an army.

>>583123
Honestly, I'd say Stirner would be chaotic neutral. He states outright the cooperation, social interaction, and even altruism are ultimately to your benefit, they should just all be pursued to your own benefit rather than in service of some sacred concept.

>>584242
>Crucifying Tyre
>Good

>>585254
No, Caesar has always been the center of the universe. That less people were aware of it is irrelevant.

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>>585277

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More Lawful Neutral

But as their semi-mythological founder I'm sure the Spartans thought he was Good.

Though I don't run rpg games outside of crpgs I always thought Lycurgus would be a great example of a outsider rebel LN or LG character that wanted to transform the world he lives in and is heavy on the law but still interesting and badass, instead of being a bureaucratic joke stereotype obsessed with notarizing everything. Just imagine a group of heroes gathered together on a quest, each with the potential for a great destiny all on their own with extreme personalities to match. And you have the scrappy warrior lawyer who sketches out his perfect laws for the ideal society by campfire. He dreams of a better world, a world where everyone is told what the fuck to do from birth, and likes it.

>>585291
imo no founder type character (especially not a mythic founder) can be lawful, because they preexist established law. See: Romulus and Remus raping women en masse.

>>583048

Machiavelli was probably the most misunderstood lawful good character ever. You could argue that in reinforcing one of the bloodiest popes ever he was a fucking villain, but still a lawful good one.

All his recommendations for the prince had the single objective of unifying Italy, bringing peace to a country torn by war, debt and foreign interest.

>>583098

Nietzche wasn't just about not following the guidelines of morality but questioning it in order to reach a higher level of self.
Would concede chaotic neutral, but not yet chaotic evil.

>>583136

IMO True Neutral with really big anger management issues.

I propose for LG Benito Juarez.
Bracing against /pol/ response tho.

>>583136
Marx was a pretty cool guy, I'd say neutral good
Most communist leaders fall into NE/CE though

>>585118
Lawful means that you have your own personal codex you always stick to with few to no exceptions. Being lawful doesn't necessarily have to do something with laws in the legal sense.

Obligatory Julian mention

>>584013
Is he the best king in history? That's a good debate question. Such a good man.

>>585111
The post said lawful GOOD, feggit

>>583831
Gr8 rebuttal lad, your wealth of knowledge on the subject is astounding

Gracchi bros.

>>584486
>most
So based

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>>582674
Isabella I of Castile

>>586647
Chaotic Neutral, sempai

>>587004
Chaotic good, at worst.

>>582674
Kant's theories were lawful good in that he wanted to universalized morality. Stealing is wrong no matter the context, because you have to imagine a world where everyone stole. His theories were lawful good.

BUT the real life Kant was anti-Semitic.

Kant suggested that to solve the Jewish problem, all Jews should be drowned in a lake.

Plus, the guy was not worldly - he never traveled outside his hometown .

>>582854
Chaotic good.

>>582914
Lawful evil.

>>582944
Neutral good.

>>583950
>good
Razing Thebes and punishing your entire army by sending them through a desert because they wouldn't let you conquer India? Needlessly conquering places just because and not having an actual political goal in mind?

Chaotic definitely though. Chaotic neutral.

>>586647
Definitely agree here. Lawful good all the way.

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>>584486
>tfw Washington fumbling with his glasses
>Gentlemen, you will permit me to put on my spectacles, for I have not only grown gray but almost blind in the service of my country.

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And a great man.

I'd put Napoleon as well, but I think he's more Neutral Good than anything.

>>582944
Bullshit, Lawful Neutral all the way.

>>583939
He's chaotic as heck lad.

>>584013
I honestly can't think of a ruler that was morally purer than him... maybe Napoleon, mais bon.

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Lawful good?

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With a dash of chaotic though

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Spengler

>>584507
Lying goes against the categorical imperative.

>>587707
> New Deal
> Good
Keynes is the cancer in this world. It's like bulding statues for stalin

>>588310
>>>/youtube/
>>>/x/

>>587707
>lawful
>with a dash of chaotic
critical thinking isn't your strong point is it

>>588310
>New Deal
>Keynesian

>>588354
I don't see what your problem is. Dungeons and Dragons has tons of monsters that are listed as "Lawful Evil (Chaotic Evil)" and such. Versatility is a thing.

>>589093
that means that the monsters of that kind can be found in more varieties. Lawful means you are lawful. If you stray often from your codex that makes you lawful and are unpredictable, you are not lawful.

>>582944
He wanted to eliminate people based on their nationality how is that good? Neutral evil.

Reminder that neutral good is the most virtuous, and chaotic and lawful come in second.

>>587712
This desu.

>>582674
>Kant
>good
logic is arbitrary, just because something is logical doesn't mean it's ethical.

logic is the empire and kant is darth vader

>>587666
Satan confirms, Marcus Aurelius is a good Emperor.

I'd put Ashoka up there as well. That motherfucker really just wanted to do the right thing.

>>583574
>Marx
>true neutral

I can quite wrap my head around the idea of Marx as proponent of the status quo.

>>583400
>holocaust
>wooden sheds are gas chambers despite not being airtight
>more Jews enter Israel from Europe than should be possible if 6 million died

>>585118
Lawful good faggot
Good.

>>585545
Any autocrat is by definition lawful or neutral at most

>>589806
just like pol pot, or stalin

>>585559
No, lawful good means that you follow law and act benevolently within the guidelines of society.
Chaotic good means that you operate good outside of social guidelines, often intentionally so.
Neutral good means that you operate benevolently, going lawful when it is the best way and unlawful when that is the best way.

You might find this to be stupid definitions, but these narrow definitions are the original definitions.

>>586647
nother problem for Gaius's aims was that the Roman constitution, specifically the Tribal Assembly, was designed to prevent any one individual governing for a sustained period of time – and there were several other checks and balances to prevent power being concentrated on any one person. Stobart adds that another reason for the efforts' failures was the Gracchi's idealism; they were deaf to the baser notes of human nature and failed to recognize how corrupt and selfish all sections of Roman society had become.[1]
Note America bases itself on Rome so no wonder it's a shithole that never lives up to its potential

>>585559
in the context of dnd/rpg alignments it does - it is society (law) vs. individual (chaos)

>>587210
Antisemitic doesn't mean you're not good
Killing orcs and goblins and others wouldn't make a paladin lose his status
Anyone reading the Babylonian Talmud and medieval rabbis attitudes to nonJews would justifiably want them out of their country - just check out founding fathers of America

>>589305
Except Slaadi are pretty evil objectively whilst modrons are relatively harmless
That's why the abyss is closer to epitome of evil and celestia is closer to epitome of good
Also Paladins - is there a neutral good class? No but there is LG one

>>589822
Yes ethically lawful morally evil

>>589855
Paladins are not rule-breakers, that's why they are lawful. I'm going off the actual descriptions in all the books and games.

>>589866
hese characters have a strong moral character. Truth, honor, and the welfare of others is all-important. They are convinced that order and laws are absolutely necessary to assure that goodness prevails. Lawful good beings will not want to lie or cheat anyone, good or evil. They will not stand for treachery and will not let obviously dishonorable people use their own honor against them, if they can help it. They will obey the laws and customs of the area that they are in, but will attempt to find legal loopholes to disobey a law which is clearly evil or unjust. (3)
However, a lawful good character will not honor a law that runs contrary to his alignment. A government may believe that unregulated gambling provides a harmless diversion, but a lawful good character may determine that the policy has resulted in devastating poverty and despair. In this character's mind, the government is guilty of a lawless act by promoting an exploitative and destructive enterprise. In response, he may encourage citizens to refrain from gambling, or he may work to change the law. Particularly abhorrent practices, such as slavery and torture, may force the lawful good character to take direct action. It doesn't matter if these practices are culturally acceptable or sanctioned by well-meaning officials. The lawful good character's sense of justice compels him to intervene and alleviate as much suffering as he can. Note, though, that time constraints, inadequate resources, and other commitments may limit his involvement. While a lawful good character might wish for a cultural revolution in a society that tolerates cannibalism, he may have to content himself with rescuing a few victims before circumstances force him to leave the area. (5)

>>589866
>>589901
So they put their internal good laws before any external evil laws
That's why they are seen as God before King whereas a samurai puts his ruler before his own morality - a lg samurai has to obey commands of an evil ruler

>>583048
Robespierre is chaotic evil

>>583950
Alexander was fucking awesome but chaotic neutral fits him much much better considering many of his actions.

>>586647
Evil bastards

>>583136

neutral evil

>>590057

Alexander's legacy was overwhelming good. He was a mild and restrained monarchy by any estimation. A few drunken tragedies (which he always regretted) do not detract from that. Hellenization was a leap forward for much of the ancient world. His conquest of the Persian Empire paved the way for Rome to become a supreme power less than a millennium later. His legend inspired countless other leaders and commanders, including Caesar and Napoleon.