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African Theatre WWII
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

Thread replies: 62
Thread images: 11
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Why is the North African Campaign of WWII completely ignored? It seems nobody talks about it at all.
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>>580218
New here, eh? Welcome to /his/.
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Too many different nations were involved instead of just US/UK vs. Nazis. Too much too ignore.
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because ultimately it was a sideshow
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I don't even understand the strategic significance of Northern Africa. Why did anyone want to occupy a gigantic, barely traversable desert with absolutely no infrastructure? Is it just
>muh colonies?
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>>580250
>What is oil
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>>580262
Something that exists in far greater quantities in America and the Middle East.
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>>580218
Because it was the least relevant.
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>>580218

Not grimdark enough to make into a gritty movie or tv show
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>>580218

The Afrika Korps honestly had the most aesthetic German uniforms of the whole war.
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Because it was a bunch of fucking sand and that's it.

What are you going to tell me, that Rabat or Cairo were the dramatic settings for the fights that would determine global civilization for decades to come?
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>>580282
No argument here
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>>580262
>>580250
What is the Suez Canal.
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>>580294
hot damn
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>>580218
>completely ignored

By WHO?

Your 7th grade history teacher?
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>>580295
And Gibraltar. That's it. That's all the region has to offer beyond petroleum extraction.
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>>580277
I saw a trailer for a war miniseries that takes place in North Africa but I don't know nothing else about it and haven't heard anything else about it.
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>>580250

The goal was Egypt and the Suez canal. Capturing that greatly curtails British communication with India, isolates their forces in the Middle East, opens up a route to invade the Levant, Iraq and Persia (one of the biggest producers of oil at the time, outside of Murrica) and ultimately greatly reduces Allied capabilities to operate in the Med. It also places pressure on Turkey to choose a side.

>>580262

Oil wasn't discovered in N.Africa until the late 50s
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>>580218

It's enormously overdiscussed. All this Rommel wanking is North Africa basically.


Although, to be honest, I do think people like this are >>580233 overstating it. North Africa led to Italy, and the mere allied presence in Italy forced about 50 divisions off the main front in Eastern Europe for a far lesser Allied presence in the same theater.

>>580250

It's mostly to be able to project airpower into the central Mediterranean. The Germans had certain pie in the sky ideas about taking Suez, but even the idea of keeping the British and later Americans out of Tripoli and Tunis had a lot of merit. Precisely because the place is desert with no infrastructure, it's hard to put large armies in the theater and actually do anything with them. That means you can defend the region with a far less commitment of force than you can closer to your heartlands, in Italy.
>>580262

The amount of oil existent in the middle east at the time was tiny. Venezuela was drilling more in 1941 than Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia combined.
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>>580233
It was a very decisive factor in the war and while it wasn't as large as the other theaters it had a huge impact in how the war happened the way it did. The axis winning it would give them naval dominance in the Mediterranean and make Italy a more useful ally on other fronts while also blocking off allied shopping from Asia into Europe and vice versa. The allies winning, as they did historically, gave them naval and air superiority across almost all of Europe and opened the ground for the first offensives into Europe itself, first into Sicily and then creating a whole new front across Italy, which diverted valuable Italian and German troops from other fronts and ultimately lead to the fall to the only major German ally on European soil
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>>580292
Yes, battles like them did, as this theater basically decided who would own the Suez Canal, something that could possibly decide the outcome of the war as axis control over it would cripple shipping routes from Europe and Asia, leaving the fronts there much more isolated for the allies and more liked for the axis than they ever were. While it might have decided the outcome of the whole war it was an important theatre in its own right
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>>580377

There was no realistic way the Germans were getting all the way to Suez. They had enough trouble projecting force all the way to Tobruk, let alone virtually double that distance.

From the German perspective, the importance of the North African campaign was strategically defensive, not offensive: You can hold off the Anglo-Allies with 2-8 divisions, instead of 50 or so that you'll need once they start Husky. That's a big difference if you think you can make some kind of meaningful attack on the Russian front, which is where you're really hoping to win the war.
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It's considered part of the western front.

>tfw the western front was the last glorious war.
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>>580218
I wouldn't say it's ignored, just overshadowed.

The Fifteenth air force (Mediterranean) had a song about being overlooked in comparison to the Eighth (England)

>It’s still the same old story,
>The Eighth gets all the glory,
>While we go out to die.
>The fundamental things apply,
>As flak goes by.
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>>580377
Shipping did not go through the Suez canal. It went around Africa.
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>>580250
>What is oil
>What is Suez Canal
>What is backdoor to Italy/The Balkans
>What is the Levant
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>>580233

The war was decided in North Africa.
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Because America was hardly involved, and when they were in Tunisia they got btfo by the Germans
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It's unreally overrepresented in videogames for one.

>Commandos
>Medal of Honor
>CoD
>Battlefield 42
>Blitzkrieg
>Sniper Elite 3

etc
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>>581900
>what is Operation Torch
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>>580218
While they had a lot of long term consequences, they had little to no impact on the overall outcome of the war, and only happened because Churchill wanted to give the Russians and the Nazis more time to pound on each other.

If he had ignored this theater, and instead dedicated his forces to an advanced, as early as he had promised Stalin he was going to, the war would have ended two years earlier.
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What a loaded question. If anything it's overrated as fuck, I learned about El Alamein in high school classes and I grew up in fucking Eastern Europe.
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>>581943
could it perhaps be because some of your countrymen fought there? some EE folks did you know
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>>581950
They did in Tobruk actually, which was hardly even mentioned.
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>>581943
It's mentioned because it falls in roughly the the same time as Stalingrad or even Guadalcanal so it can fit into a larger narrative of the "turning point" of WWII.
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>>581939

Husky and Avalanche prompted the dissolution of Mussolini's regime and the re-dedication of about 50 extra Heer divisions and Luftwaffe assets to both Italy and garrison duty that had been vacated by Italian troops in places like Greece and Yugoslavia.

Meanwhile, Sledgehammer or Roundup carry enormous risks when the German air presence in North Europe isn't broken, and the terrain is much more suited to the sort of counterattack that you saw in Kasserine. If that happens in Normandy or Brittany, you're rolled into the water, and it's real bad.
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>>582057

Never heard Guadalcanal mentioned as a turning point before but I guess it makes sense. First succesful land based operation against the japanese, I guess.

The turning point in the Pacific was Pearl Harbor when the Japanese missed sinking the carriers.

Every action that the Japanese planned prior to the outbreak of the war as a success. Every action they planned or were involved with after their initial surprise successes were failures.
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>>582156

>The turning point in the Pacific was Pearl Harbor when the Japanese missed sinking the carriers.

Even if Pearl Harbor sank the two carriers, that still leaves the U.S. with 5, and when those Essex class vessels come out, it doesn't matter.

Japan had no way of winning a total war against the U.S. no matter what she did; her only hope is to do some kind of Vietnamesque or American Revolutionesque war of attrition, and hoping to sign a peace with honor. Pearl Harbor itself, the outrage the sneak attack generated in the American public, made this impossible.

The only chance the Japanese had would have been to call FDR's bluff, invade the NEI, proclaim loudly that they're liberating those poor Indonesians from colonial oppression, and hope to spin the propaganda war well enough that the American public tires of the fighting after a few years.
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>>580218
North Africa
the mainland East-Asian campaign
the battle at sea in the Atlantic

lots of things are overlooked
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>>580424
What is this from? I cant even find it reverse image searching.

Also, I don't think North Africa is ignored. It was what first interested me when I began reading about WWII, I always assumed it was one of the most popular and read about parts of the war.
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>>580361

Retard.
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>>581896
This. If it weren't for Indiana Jones stopping the Nazis from getting the Ark of the Covenant they would have been unstoppable.
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No infrastructures in north africa? whaddaaaafuccccc
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>>583173
Well, there were no railroads in Libya, which was about 90% of the North Africa campaign.
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It was not very successful for the United States. Though we pushed the Germans out, the United States had many casualties. Since it was the first location of deployment of the US, many of our troops were in-experienced.
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>>580722
What movie is that?
Looks operator as fuck
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>>581921
Deserts are easy to do in vidya and there was a lot of good action.
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>>582746

For the sake of history, Indiana Jones did absolutely nothing, Nazis would be molt and killed by the light anyway.
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>>583255
made for TV remake of Sahara staring Jim Belushi
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no strategic significance whatsoever, it was literally just the meme front
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>>583293

Springboard to Sicily and Italy, able to defend with a far lesser commitment of force while concentrating on other fronts. Totally worthless.
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>>581926
A small part of the north African campaign with 1/3 of the ground forces, all the navy and most of the airforce coming from the uk. It was planned to be marketed as a us invasion as churchill thought it would be more palatable to the french.
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It gets covered here in Aus during high school. Most likely only because of the Siege of Tobruk tho.
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>>585686

Yeah, and even that was kinda skipped over. Straight to Kokoda. And twice the time on both spent on various other WW2 esque stuff. Homefront, facism, etc.
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>>581900
>being this retarded
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>>580233
you're thinking of WW1's middle eastern theater
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>>580218
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>>582196
You can definitely find more info on those things. If you want I could find some sources
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>>580250
Because it was strategic in the sense that whoever controlled it controlled half the Mediterranean. Which the allies would want to do to invade Italy, and which Germany would want to do to stop or limit Italian expansion in the case of the them winning the war.
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>>580367
>Italy
>useful ally
Thread replies: 62
Thread images: 11
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