>vikings >horned helmets Ughhh Also, historical inaccuracies

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>le cracked contrarian history expert maymay

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>>580057
>the katana is the best sword ever created

> Movies with people eating food they couldn't possibly have ate
Potatoes and tomatoes are the worst offenders.

What pisses me off the most is this idea that in the Persian Wars, greek was a shining beacon of democracy and western civilization, meanwhile Persia was an empire of greedy slaveholders whose objective was only to destroy and subject free people.

>europe has been at the top of the world for all of human history

>>580102
THIS.

>>580079
when did potatoes and and tomatoes become regular in the diet?

>whatever 95 % people thinks of WW1

or any ww1 popular history basically

I don't think there is an event with a worse ratio of being so relatively recent & so awfully twisted and wrong in its common perception

>>580125
Examples?

>Austria-Hungary was Germany's ally in WW1

Austria-Hungary was such a bad ally they could be considered an enemy

>only 300 spartans fought against the persians

>>580124
Europeans thought tomatoes were poisonous till the mid 16th century then it appeared in cookbooks and shit

As for the potato, it has been a part of European diet since the early 17th century, mostly for the poor and animal fodder, only in the late 18th century was when it became more acceptable. Mostly because of a wide range of famines and it was easy to grow so it became popular

>>580178
Blatantly ignoring the 7000 other Greeks

>The American Civil War wasn't about slavery

I live in the south so I have to deal with this opinion a lot

>>580208
BUT MUH STATE RIGHTS!

>>580208
Florida boy here. It wasn't about slavery, it was about preserving the Union. The north didn't care about the slaves. Lincoln himself said that he wouldn't abolish slavery if it meant keeping the union together.

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>>580063
Even worse
>Samurai primarily used the Katana

>>580208
It's a bit blunt to say it was only about slavery. It was officially secession from the Union (even though Lincoln said he wouldn't take their slaves) and that happened because of the cotton trade being threatened and since that was a big part of the souths income the wouldn't have any of that

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This is more of a censorship issue, but it makes my blood boil seeing axis WWII depictions obviously lacking swastikas, yet the Balkenkreuz and Iron cross are just fine

That Samurai only used the Katana as anything other than a ceremonial sidearm and a symbol of status, ignoring everything else in their arsenal.

That medieval european nobles leading armies were incompetent

That the Crusaders were the aggressors.

>>580232
>>580226
Right, but the reason the southern states seceded was out of fear that the growing abolitionist sentiment in the north and west would threaten the south's largely slave driven economy. There were other factors, but the war would have never happened if the south was less dependent on slavery or more open to abolition.

>>580130
Not him, but:
>if franz ferdinand was shot the war would never have happened!
>germany [singlehandedly] started it

>>580256
wasn't shot*

>Leather armor covered in studs with terrible, crude stitching.

Why do movies/video games assume that people back then didn't know how to stitch?

>>580178
Well it would be way less cool if they showed the 900 slaves that carried all their shit

>>580254
>more opon the abolition
>slave driven economy
Tis an unavoidable shame that civil war

>germany, an economical powerhouse of a nation housing many great economists suffered hyperinflation after WW1 because they just started printing more money, as if they couldn't understand the direct resulsts and consequences
It's a gross oversimplification at best, are historians retarded enough to believe that one day Fritz said to Hans: "I've got it, let's just print two trillion fucking reichmarks and pay off all the debts, why has no one thought of this before?"

Why make a thread pandering to retards? This is stupid and probably better suited on reddit.

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>16th century
>Flat Earth Theory is still widely accepted

>>580327
>if the catholic church didn't HATE TECHNOLOGY and spend the entire medieval period repressing it and persecuting scientists we'd be in space by now

>>580057
>muh dark ages

>>580327
>>580332

kek thats what you get with reddit armchair historians

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>>580237
THIS so much. I love building model planes but hate it when companies remove the swatstika. Feelings are more important than historical accuracy now.

Pic: I made this one. Tamiya Models don't include swatstikas on their box art of the product but the decals are still inside for use

>>580246
>That the Crusaders were the aggressors.

But they were, I mean unless you mean because the Byzantines were the ones that invited them

>>580506
Id say they were the aggressors. They kept going to the holy city, which the Byzantines didnt care about if i remember correctly.

>>580246
>That the Crusaders were the aggressors.
They were though

>>580588
Then again, it could be argued the Seljuks were as they were attacking the Byzantines.

>>580057
No helmets in historical films, i know the actors faces are important to many but ffs. No hat means the first stone someone picks off the ground and hits you with could put you out of the fight let alone an actual weapon. Even a wool hat stuffed with leaves is better.

People travelling in full armour in winter- the padding makes you sweat, the metal stays below freezing around it. Recipe for disaster over several hours.

>>580057
I'm pretty sure Vikings with horned helmets is one of those factoids literally everybody already knows is wrong.

>>580136
shitty allies but allies. that's not inaccuracy

>>580246
>the crusaders were the aggressors

lol, yeah. i also love:
hitler hated jews
hotszendorf was a shitty general
belgium didn't caused WWI

>>580102
>What is Atlantis?

>>580728
If Crusades actually listened to Byzantine Emperor instead of moving on the holy land you could argue they were defensive.

But taking Jerusalem is an offensive move, but catholics in this board like their dinduism
>dey dindu nuffin they good bois they go to church

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>>580632

>>580735
Taking Jerusalem was a response to like 100 years of offense. But nice try.

>>580746
It wasn't in self defense of themselves, but it wasn't unjustified from the perspective of "hey, they've tried shittinf on us before, lets fuck em up."

>>580499
Nicely done. 1:72 scale or larger?

All the ridiculous geographical inaccuracies in Vikings.
>No fjords in northern Denmark
>Hedeby was not surrounded by steep hills
>Old Temple of Uppsala was not in any mountains, because there are no fucking mountains there

>>580057
The last samurai where they charge in on horseback in full armor. Unless Tom slipped through a time portal that took him back in time five hundred years. Samurai should not have been fighting like that.

The samurai of the Satsuma rebellion were using modern firearms, they only resorted to swords in close combat or when they ran out of gun power towards the end.

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>the usa is evil imperialist =DDD
>us kill civilians for fun =DDD
>US is hypocrite they dont like 9/11 but kill many iraqis and vietnamese and koreans =DDD
>i dont know whats a causus belli and i'm voting for bernie

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Fat reenactors

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>>580782

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>>580783

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>>580785

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>>580788

>tokugawa dindu nuffin
>imperial crackas be hatin on us

>>580728
>hey Belgium let our army cross your border we promise we're just passing through :^)
>"no"
>wooooooow thanks for causing a world war

>reLIEgion is the root of all evil!!!!!

>>580080
Yeah, especially considering that Persia was the first country with codified human rights, meanwhile the Greek relied on slavery to make their country work and considered it perfectly natural.

...I never thought about it that much before. Wow.

>>580130
lusitania not being a military transport

>>580613
Whats true here?

>>580746
The muslims had control of the holy city for a loooong time before the crusades.

>>580080
Yeah, especially when Greeks are hailed for saving Freedom, Democracy, Culture and Western Civilization from evil barbaric despotic sandniggers, and yet no one cares about Alexander's and the Successors' attempted destruction of Iranian/Aramaic/Jewish/Egyptian/etc cultures and forced hellenization. Hell, no one cares about Rome eventually conquering Greece and destroying fucking Corinth.

>>580079
>>580079

I can't say I've ever seen a medieval movie where they're eating tomatoes and potatoes.

Examples?

>>580130
being an Australian, I have to put up with the almost religious zealotry shown to the ANZAC's at Gallipoli.

One of my more simpler m8's once told me on Anzac Day that: "If it wasnt for dem anzacs defending us at gallipoli, we'd all be bloody sex slaves to the fuckin Japs m8!"

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>Mosley was a man of the right

>>581059
Read Bill Scates book on the ANZACs.

Then read about the ANZAC strikes, mutinies, rape of Cairo, Campbeltown mutiny.

>>581059
Fellow Ausfag here.

I know the feel, the Gallipoli campaign was an absolute fuck up, the only saving grace is that both sides had relatively even casualties, meaning it wasn't a total bloodbath for us.

>>581059
>one of my more simpler m8s
Pot and kettle, dude.

>>580843
Don't forget that half of the Greeks were oligarchic, and all of the Greek states were slave owners

The fucking Puy Du Fou. Catholic shit propaganda. If the true Republicans were still around, we'd make short work of this anti-revolutionary papist Chouan pieces of shit.

Also:
> Germany was totally innocent in WWI you guys!
> WWII was caused by the Treaty of Versailles! I went to high school!
> Hitler was democratically elected!
> Perfidious Albion totally didn't commit a war crime at Mers-El-Kebir.

>vikings
>good fighters

I can understand sailors but fighters are people fucking retarded? How can anyone think village raids involved any heroic battles?

>>580761
Kek reminds me of that animated Beowulf movie a few years back:
>Lejre is surrounded by a huge range of mountains

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>asia is a mystical place of profound ancient wisdom that is too deep and peaceful and beautiful for the western mind to comprehend, and not just a continent of homo sapiens doing the same stupid shit we do but in their own way

>>580228
What was though, my knowledge of that part of the world's history is severely lacking.

>>580057
>Jews weren't evil money grabbing scum
>Christian monks were clever and scholarly

>>580226
Lol for the north it wasn't about slavery but the southern states definitely wanted to keep the law that any black was a slave
The individual statements of secession outright said so

>>580499
1/48

>>580756
thank you. 1/48

>>580718
But some Vikings did
http://www.archaeologyuk.org/news/090401-horns

>>580746
Yeah that's why they then set up their own kingdoms and persecuted local Easter Christians

>>580780
Puerto Rico
Cuba
Phillipines
Plenty of videos of fatty clappers shooting at random civilians out of their helicopters
When you think it's ok to kill others but not your own that is hypocrisy
The fact that various think tanks had already drawn up plans to carve up Iraq and the rest of the area and were just waiting for an excuse

>>581768
>we found da helmet :DD
>no pics doe :D
fuck off

>>581590
Well it's just the same old western mystification of the orient out of ignorance they've been doing forever. Like Europeans honestly thought Chinese emperor was the perfect absolute monarch. The whole new age wankery was just continuing that.

>>580080
Am I alone in thinking Herodotus was actually a Persianboo who was only nominally pro-greek because he valued his head?

>>580208
Northerner here, I legitimately do not believe it had anything to do with slavery. It was a motivating factor, but not the cause.

The southern name "War of Aggression" was and is correct.

>>580780
The USA does have undeniable imperialist moments in their history though. Take the example of the military action in Grenada, which Reagan admitted was to ensure the global capitalist system could continue by making an example of a state which had chosen to opt out.
Take the CIA Coup of Iran.
I'm not saying that USA is always the bad guy, but it's preposterous to pretend that they don't have serious colonial incidents in their history that have had a lasting impact.

>>580791
>instructed to take cover
>no cover around whatsoever
>whole squad behind you
>dfw you are the cover

>>581768
Pics or it didn't happen faggot

>>581846
This.

I'm also a Northerner, and although I don't condone slavery, I absolutely see the argument of the Southern States arguments to choose to succeed if they so choose.

>>580057
Maybe because they were cuckold Vikings?

>>581871
K E K
E
K

>>581878
Jesus my post was awful. I really need to proofread what I type before I post, because this looks like it was written by an autist.

>>580208
You're covering the civil war with such a broad brush it should be criminal.

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>>580057
>colonialism was eeeeviiiil incarnate and the hippy natives were always so much better off with their original super pacifistic way of living
>medieval europe is a shit hole for almost 1000 years, no exceptions
>whereas the Arab world was always and in every aspect technologically and cultural superior and super enlightened, no exceptions
>armor doesn't do shit against swords
>le peasant longbow killing the cumbersome knight, muh predecessor of class struggle, the machine gun of the medieval ages
>guns immediately outclassed heavy armor
>Nazi infantry was absolute crap and always outnumbered its enemy, still lost
>le woman viking fighter dual wielding
>muh noble savage
>medieval armor looks like biker cloth

Sense a theme here? I hate projecting modern sensitivities into historical stuff.

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>>581914

Also this, popped up in a /tg/ discussion. What followed was an endless rant about evil corporations and industrialization and the honest belief that there was no military before industrial revolution and they only used soldiers for parade.

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>>580063
amen brother, here's me laying down the law

>>581914
>nazi infantry was absolute crap and always outnumbered the enemy, still lost

Is this one actually that common? Mostly just see it in American movies about the western front, and mostly in smaller situations and particular battles so the heroic struggle of outnumbered americans seems noteworthy? Really the worst offenders i can think of would be saving private Ryan and fury, but even in saving private Ryan the Americans start losing a ton of guys after their ambush loses steam.

>>580843
and then the subsequent destruction of most of that hellenistic secular society by organized religions such as judaism

>>581936

Yeah, really common imo in Russian and American movies. Also in documentaries with cinematic elements.

I mean the fact that American series and movie authors write the whole piece of work arround these singular struggles even if thematizing the invasion of Germany is a misrepresentation in its own.

>>581093
>NZ casualty rate of 90%
>Not a bloodbath

>>580718
It was a ceremonial thing

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>>580063
>>581931
>the katana is just a meme
For a while samurai were real human beans, professional soldiers who had to fight or watch their families lose everything and be forced to commit suicide. The katana was a functional piece of equipment they placed their lives behind, maybe not the "best ever" but certainly the best for their purposes, it only became a meme during the Tokugawa era after generations of peace.

>>581980
It wasn't a thing at all.

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>>581980
It wasn't.

It was based off 19th Archaeologists digging up Ancient Celtic Helmets all over Western/Central Europe (which were more impressive than Ancient Germanic Ones) and pretty much Romantic Artists garbed the Vikings in this gear. Assuming that "All Our Noble Savage Ancestors wore this thing."

And Ancient Celtic helmets had all sorts of shit on em. Wings, Greek-style crests, HORNS, pointed crests, plumes, and even whole statuettes of birds & boars.

Pic fucking related. A Norseman wearing the famous Celtic "La Tene Culture" breastplate and helmet.

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>>582016
>>581991
That'd make pic related make more sense since Celts dominated the European bronze age

>>580057
>movie ste in ancient Egypt
>main characters are white as fuck

>>582079
*set

>>582079
WE

>>581914
>colonialism was eeeeviiiil incarnate and the hippy natives were always so much better off with their original super pacifistic way of living
Well, colonialism was actually pretty fucked up, and the natives were no angels but forced asimilation was devastating to them

>medieval europe is a shit hole for almost 1000 years, no exceptions
1000 years is very exagerated but during the carolingian era (between VIII-IX centuries) most of western european countries were the shittiest places of the time

>whereas the Arab world was always and in every aspect technologically and cultural superior and super enlightened, no exceptions
Because they actually were better in pretty much every aspect (at least before the seljuks took power)

>>582112
and then there's this cuck

>>582079
>movie set in any time period
>all the powerful people in said time period are white

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When ancient settings are overly patrician

>>580785
General Vlasov really let himself go

>>581268
To be fair Versailles didn't help at all.

>>581590
Add native Americans to the list.

>noble savage yet peaceful people who live in harmony with nature :^)

>vikings
>not flaming bisexuals

>>581093
2bh we should all blame the brits.
>t. Mehmet

>>582112

>forced assimilation was devastating
>de white man take our Juju stick an make us prey in de church instead of sacrificing an eating each other :'(

>>582106

WUZ

>>582112
>forced asimilation was devastating to them
lol no

>>582227
>Colonist: Hai guize :DDD. Yuo are of one country now.
>Native: No. We speak different languages and hold dissimilar values.
>Colonist: Lolno, you're one now. Now get a long with each other or else.

>>582112
>Well, colonialism was actually pretty fucked up, and the natives were no angels but forced asimilation was devastating to them

South Korean's population doubled and went into modenization on its own afterwards. Must have been horrible.

>1000 years is very exagerated but during the carolingian era (between VIII-IX centuries) most of western european countries were the shittiest places of the time

Bullshit.


>Because they actually were better in pretty much every aspect (at least before the seljuks took power)
That's a hollywood meme. Conquered some libraries by pushing out the indigenous culture and translated a lot of shit as a result. Invented much less than we actually give them credit for. Can't even into plate armor.

>Tenochtitlan was the largest city in the world

>>580332
I don't know much about the dark age.

Are you saying that it's 100% false that organized religion stifled scientitic progress? Or are you saying that it did have an effect just not such a profound one?

Anything I can read on the matter?

>>582257
>South Korean's population doubled and went into modenization on its own afterwards. Must have been horrible.
Wtf are you even saying? SK's development came way after decolonization. Prior to it it was some impoverished Junta.

Japan had little to do with it since it only used Korea for resources and focusing much of the development in Japan itself.

>>582273
>100% false

100% false that it did that in the medieval ages. I challenge anybody to show us one example where the church supressed science during that time. Quite the contrary it archieved a lot of shit and clergy was deep into science n shit

>>582288
So what was the dark age? Cultural repression instead of scientific?

>>582283
lol you know SHIT about South Korean's history. Even under SK historians there is not even a debate about the fact that the infrastructure the Japs left behind was a MAJOR factor in their modernizzation under Park Chung Hee and Rhee Syngman.

one Source of many:
Development of democratization movement in South Korea
Jung Hae Gu

>>581846
>>581878
>Southern writers only talk about preserving slavery
>IT WASN'T ABOUT SLAVERY
idiots

>>582310

A vacuum to be filled out after the collapse of the western roman empire

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>>581846
>War of Aggression
>When the Confederates attacked first
???

>>582079
>Anything set in North Africa
>They're either White or Black
Those are not the only two skin colors.

>>582141
Sounds historically correct

>>582336
I think Ridley Scott explained it well, it's not racism, it's just usual Hollywood horseshit. It's better to hire well recognized white and black actors because they make you money while nobody knows any Arab / North African / Middle Eastern actors. The one exception was Omar Sharif and he's dead now.

>>582314
SK and NK started with the same shitty nip infrastructure.

NK got pumped with Sovietbucks and industrialized faster than SK did. For a time it was richer than Sorks.

SK still remained a shitholed for much of the 50's and 60's until they got their shit together.

You know, by building their own shit.

Besides, Korea isn't plagued by assimilation issues as other decolonization efforts with hundreds of minority issues. It was the converse: it was one nation split into 2. So it's not a "Colonization Brings People Together Successfully" argument.

My 9th grade history teacher informed us that South Africa was a British colony when it was under apartheid and I about lost my mind

>>582357

Doesn't change anything about the fact their population doubled and they profitted immensely from Japanese technology, infrastructture and reforms.
Before the Japanese land reforms Korea was basically a feudal state. It owns large parts of its modernizational process to Japanese colonialization. South Korean historians admit this, South Korean politicians admitted this...the only one who disagrees is you, because you don't want to be wrong.

>>582387
Doesnt change the fact that Korea needed assimilation. It was already one country.

And the Anon was railing against forced assimilation you weeab.

>>582395
>And the Anon was railing against forced assimilation you weeab

Great, then the point that forced assimilation is what made colonialism bad is mute, because obviously it wasn't even always part of colonialism.

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>Vikings are portrayed only as raiders
>Ancient Greece is spoken of as a unified country
>Native South-Americans all lived near a temple and ripped out the hearts of children for fun daily
>Native North-Americans all lived in rawhide tents, never formed civilizations and didn't fight among each other
>Medieval knights' armor was so heavy they couldn't mount a horse, and could only walk very slowly

Also generally any implication of one faction or the other being the good / evil one, in a historical conflict. That probably triggers me the most because i know the author is trying to eschew history in favor of his political opinion.

>Assimilation is not harmful, you native savages.
>WAAAAAH FUCK EU!!!! :((((((
Europe, everyone.

>>582288
IIRC, monks were largely responsible for the proliferation of proper mills throughout Europe.

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>>580057
>Islamic rule was totally peaceful and tolerant

>>582431
>people calling mesoamericans "south americans"

>>582343
i bet you believe Jesus was GERMANIC ayy

>>582349
its still racism lol
>also implying that most actors in movies set in ancient egypt are mayo white rather than black

>>582485
>All states ruled by any kind of Muslims at some point in history had the same agenda, principles and policies and represent Islam as a whole

>>580728

>hitler hated jews
>wrong

Irving please go

>>582496
He was half Germanic. Aramean on the mother's side and Germanic on the Father's :^)

>>580057
(Assuming you believe the holocaust in the first place)
When people make jokes about jews being killed in ovens during the holocaust
They weren't, the ovens were there to dispose of their corpses after they'd been gassed in the gas chambers, not to kill anyone.

>>580080
Did you know that, while the Greeks came up with democracy, it was only prominent in a small handful of city states - but after Darius conquered the Ionian greeks (i.e. the richer and more important part of greece at the time) in west anatolia, (and after he quashed their revolts against the tyrants he initially put in charge) he actually forced all the greek regions in the empire to become democracies? The majority of independent greek city states to the west only became democracies themselves after this.

It was a diplomatic move to ally with the few fledgling greek democracies in the west, against the majority of western greek city states, which were tyrannies. None of the other regions of persia were made democratic.

So the Persian Empire played a big part in creating the phenomenon of Greek Democracy.

>>581779
>The fact that various think tanks had already drawn up plans to carve up Iraq and the rest of the area and were just waiting for an excuse
Sounds interesting, got sauce?

>>582136
>Disagrees with a post about non-white people
c-cuck

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>>581923
This has to be trolling, right? No one could possibly be that stupid...

>inb4 4chan

Yeah I know, people can be that stupid.

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>>580782
As a re-enactor, i can say this annoys me too,
>Pic related
You just have to look at yourself and say
"Do i look like a serving soldier?"
If not, get the uniform off.

>>582693

He was a dead serious SJW and discussed for arround an hour.

>>582431
The knights armor was 10 tons and immobilized you meme triggers my autism every time.

>>581923
Did he got btfo? My autism wont let me rest untill i know.

>>581748
Bows and polearms

>>580610

Ever hear about the Muslim conquest of Spain, the ghazis in the Mediterranean, the Battle of Tours, and Muslims extorting Christians in the Levant? The Crusades happened for a reason.

>>581779
I'll give you the Phillipines. But the US has been the exact antithesis of an imperial power as it pays foreign nations money to keep troops stationed there.

Also, the US military has plans to invade every single country in the world in case they need to. The fact that there was a plan waiting to go to resume hostilities with Iraq when Saddam refused to allow weapons inspectors in proves no conspiracy.

>>582912

Not to mention the fact that the Levant had been territory of the Eastern Roman Empire before the Muslim conquest of the area.

>>582697

I'm more concerned with reenactors passing on the same bullshit they learned from another reenactor than a hobby populated by autistic geeks having a few fat people involved.

If I hear 12 arrows a minute or severed fingers again it will be 865457 years too soon.

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>>582912
>I'll give you the Phillipines. But the US has been the exact antithesis of an imperial power as it pays foreign nations money to keep troops stationed there.

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>>582112
>shittiest places of the time

Uhh no. Stop posting retard

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>>580191

>7000 other greeks

I think you mean 7000 other Hoplites. Many Hoplites also had a squire. The numbers could be upwards 10000-14000.

>historical movie
>it's not in the language spoken during the time period the film is set in.
REEEEEEEEEEEEE
OLD PROTO PRE BIBLICAL HEBREW IS NOT THAT HARD A LANGUAGE!

>>580780
>causus belli

Someone's been playing with his Paradox map-painting program too long.

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>movie battle
>draw up battle lines in disciplined formation
>CHAAARGE

>>582953

Also, reenactors who forget that they are there for the public, either as education or as entertainment. If you want a total immersion thing where EVERYONE is in costume and noone asks questions like "is that fire real" or "did they have babies in those days", then you're a historical LARPer.

>>582112
>carolingian era
You mean the last time period of cultural development before the actual Dark Ages?

>>583057
whats that cat doin?

>>582912
>Ever hear about the Muslim conquest of Spain, the ghazis in the Mediterranean, the Battle of Tours,
None of those are in the Levant

>and Muslims extorting Christians in the Levant?
Which explains why Christians were also butchered when Jersualem fell

>The Crusades happened for a reason.
Duh, every war did, it was simply a greedy reason with religion used as an excuse, like the initial Muslim expansion, or Charlemagne invading the Saxons, or the crusades against Pomeranians, Prussians, and Lithuanians.

>>582916
Which was property of various kingdoms before that. By the time of the Crusades the Levant had been ruled by Muslims for centuries. Using that logic Armenia and Greece should be considered rightful Turkish and Muslim clay.

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>/his/ is a leftist haven on the 4chan
>mfw

>>582912
If Mexico declared war on the USA tomorrow to reconquer the southwest who would be the aggressor?

>>580735
>>580797
I guess you guys didn't understand. >>580246
said that "the crusaders were the aggressors" is an historical inaccuracy

>>583009
What's his name, /his/?

>>583333
>/pol/fags complain about /his/ being too left
>/lit/fags complain about /his/ being too right

>>582332
Lincoln was specifically told that attempting to resupply Ft. Sumter would be treated as an act of war. Ignoring this, he sent a supply ship in anyway knowing that the attempt would fail. All he wanted was to get the South to fire upon ol' glory and have a reason to wage war. No one was even killed when Ft. Sumter was fired upon.

Robert Anderson, who was commander of Ft. Sumter, told Pierre Beauregard that he would surrender as soon as he ran out of supplies. But the north attempted to resupply and everything went to hell from their

>>580057
>bows are a fatal casualty producer

>>582310
The Dark Age wasn't the Medieval Era. It was the immediate post-Western Roman Empire fall world where a vacuum formed. But by the time of the Carolingian Renaissance, I'd say it was over.

>>580102
Isn't this true from 1400 to the present?

>>582143
what is this meant to be

>>581829
Are there any common "Asian" misunderstandings of Western countries that people can cite?
I know that Japanese people often confuse France and Spain.

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>less advanced societies only ever fought with mindless rushing at the enemy and never, ever won

>>581914
>colonialism was eeeeviiiil incarnate and the hippy natives were always so much better off with their original super pacifistic way of living

Autonomy is generally worth more to people than peace. I think every revolution in history proves that. Let's say it's the year 2100 and China has overshot the West in almost every way. Would you be happy with them occupying your country, along with all the slavery and rape and fucked up Chinese diseases it would bring, with the knowledge that in the year 2300 your country would be more technologically advanced because of it? I know I wouldn't.

Yes, things like smallpox deaths are conflated with deliberate killings. That doesn't mean Europeans just sailed across the sea hoping to find new friends they could grace with their benevolence and build equitable relationships with.

>>582560
My dad will read bogus stories made up by holocaust deniers to make the holocaust look ridiculous and take them completely seriously.
And then he blows a gasket if I tell him that they are fake.

>>581268
Stay mad republicocu.

>>580246
The Crusades are equivalent to the modern government of Morocco invading Andalusia on the basis that it was once Muslim.

>>581882
I'm sad that the cuckold meme never took on any Elizabethan trappings. You never see jokes about horns or even the cuckoo bird itself.

A recent meme on /r9k/ is to post the "cuck duck" whenever an anon is accused of cuckoldry. But this is maddening! If you want to represent such an act with an avian mascot, why not used the obvious cuckoo?

>>581914
All of your arguments are counter-contrarian

>>582992
Carolingian Germany was pretty awful for the vast majority of the population, although so was most of the world. Its government was more rudimentary than ISIS', which is ironic given the bureaucratic sophistication of the Abbasid and Umayyad Caliphates.

The Caliphates, most Indian states, and China were more livable due to the presence of actual government institutions, but elsewhere was as bad or worse than Central Europe.

>>583333
/his/ is pretty right-wing compared to the legitimate study of history.

I like this board, but preconceived notions run rampant and the rigor of analysis is obviously laughable

>>580208
Usually you can't explain something complex with something extremely simple.

>>580254
I think were the dispute comes in is the Unions motives in the war. People today like to whitewash it as some moral crusade to end slavery, when the reality was it was nothing of the sort, they just didn't want the idea of states being able to secede if they disagree with the federal government (ie them) becoming accepted so they had to invade. They were perfectly willing to tolerate slavery within states that had remained loyal, but that just gets glossed over in the pursuit of a good story.

>>586100
>/his/ is pretty right-wing compared to the legitimate study of history.
Here are my favourite recent examples:
>Primary sources aren't primary sources and they're always directly correct
>Of course I don't trust peer reviewed modern scholarship, it doesn't fit my nationalist narrative and is therefore wrong

>>580266

>medieval ages
>everything covered in poo
>everything crudely made and worn

Such a stupid meme

>>584313
Obviously /his/ is too centrist.

>celts colonized Ireland and the British Isles

Celto-Iberians from Spain colonized Ireland who then evolved into another group known as the gaels who invaded scotland.

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>>580057
>Joan d'Arc le glorified cheerleader meme

Knights that fought alongside her testified at her trials that she was skilled with a lance and an expert at artillery placement. She personally led two important cavalry charges and was often the first up the walls when attacking fortifications. She also disarmed a Burgundian knight in single combat outside of Paris. She said she preferred her banner to her sword, but never denied using her sword. The quote at her trial, "I never killed anyone." was in response to being accused of murder for handing a brigand over to some townspeople to be hung.

>Hitler dindu nuffin wrong

I see lot of this here in 4chan and what pisses me off is that these guys see themselves as specialists.

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>WE WERE KHANS N EGYPTIANS N SHIET.

>peasants ate nothing all day
The average peasant man ate like 3k calories a day. Fuck apparently monks ate as much as 6k a day. Gotta eat big to get big.

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>be mehmet
>conquer Constantinopole
>IMMEDIATELY RENAME IT ISTANBUL EVEN THOUGH YOU WANT TO BE THE EMPEROR OF ROMANS AND RESPECT THE CITY

Yeah no. The Ottomans did not call Constantinople "Istanbul", and literally every movie/book/vidya assumes that it was renamed the moment it was conquered.

This might sound like a small thing in comparison with some of the things brought up here but one thing that really grinds my gears in historical movies is when soldiers on the march have nothing on them but their armor and weapons. The only movie I can recall seeing with it is the 9th legion where legionnaires actually carried their shit when on the move. That movie lacked in many other departments though.

Also a sidenote about those fat reenactors from a person that had been in the scene, the worst part is that many of them are super knowledgable and into it, so every piece of kit is often meticulously sourced and paid out the ass for. Doesn't matter wince it falls flat when worn by ham planets. It's like seeing milsim reenactors doing a SEAL team impression. Doesn't matter if all your gear is the real deal and every piece of kit is 100% kosher when youre 30 lbs overweight and you have ear gauges and a goatee.

>>583065
Reenactors hate questions like those because they're fucking stupid, not because they "ruin the experience."

>>580783
>>580788
>>580791
Hogan's Heroes auditions?

>>587432
Wasn't renamed until after Kemalism

>>584785
>1400 onwards is all of human history

>>587432
It was a miss transliteration
Constantinople
Stantinopl
Stanbul

>>584837
>Their kings are not permanent. They select and appoint the most worthy man. If there are unexpected calamities in the kingdom, such as frequent extraordinary winds or rains, he is unceremoniously rejected and replaced. The one who has been dismissed quietly accepts his demotion, and is not angry. The people of this country are honest. They resemble the Chinese, and that is why the country is called Da Qin (大秦, The "Great" Qin) ... The soil produced lots of gold, silver, and rare jewels, including the jewel which shines at night ... they sew embroidered tissues with gold threads to form tapestries and damask of many colours, and make a gold-painted cloth, and a "cloth washed-in-the-fire" (asbestos).
This is what a chinese ambassador sent to Rome reported back to Beijing, but he only got as far as the Persian Gulf

>>587432
what's the actual history behind the renaming?

>>582250
based colonists trying to usher in world peace, shame the savages were too primitive for such things :^(

>>586076

Because dank maymays are dank m8.

>>587988
some mouth-breathers either misheard or mispronounced it as stantinopl and then stambul.
Soon enough people began calling it that way even though the official name was Constantinople until Ataturk came to power and used the popularized name

>>587971
>>588003
Where the fuck did you hear this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Istanbul#.C4.B0stanbul

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>>588006
>Turkish city
JUST

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>>584619
Weren't they though? The battle of Towton saw the use of longbows used to devastating effect. That and Agincourt.

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>>580057
>le two-spirits were trans meme

>>582912
If the visigoths hadn't nigged, they wouldn't have invaded

>>581846
Motivating factor is literally a euphemism for cause.
You're in fucking denial.

>>586090
have you uh, ever heard of the caste system, it was ugh brahmins eating lower caste people

>>588099
Not trans, gay

Fuck off Trumpfag

>>582953
What are these 12 arrows a minute and severed fingers things? never heard of them.

>>582431
Technically, vikings were only raiders, since only the people who went raiding could be called vikings.

It triggers my autism when people use the word viking to refer to all people who lived in Scandinavia at that time.

>fulled armored knights fighting other knights with nothing but swords
>double bitted fucking axes in combat

>>582310
It was a backwards projection by "Renaissance" and "Enlightenment" polemicists

>>588388
The idea that medieval longbowmen were required to shoot 12 arrows per minute and that if they were captured the French would cut off their index and middle finger so they couldn't shoot anymore. They're memes.

>>581931
to bad he couldn't cut carbs

>>584555
Lincoln wasn't even president yet. And how is the federal government resupplying a federal fort an act of war when southern states had already declared secession?

Jesus fuck. I blame the public school system.

>>587988
Greek peasants called it that and they kept calling it that after they became Turkified

>the Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya was the bad guys

>>580057
"Democracy vs Communism"

I've always hated this representation of the cold war which is near universal.

Democracy has nothing to do with Capitalism and Dictatorships have nothing to do with Communism, There were Democratic Communists and there are Dictatorial Capitalists the same there are democratic Capitalists and Dictatorial Communists.

Attaching "Democracy" as a value intrinsic to Capitalism and Dictatorship as intrinsic to Communism is completely ahistorical and only has propaganda in mind.

>>581059
Oh man, War history in Australia is so fucking cringeworthy
>Blow out of preportion notable Australian battles to make them seem like the most important moments in major wars.

Long Tan, the most important battle of Vietnam, Gallipoli, the single most important battle of WW1, Kakoda, the single most important battle of WW2.

The sad thing is, because of this massive circlejerking of Gallipoli, it completely ignores the Battle of Hamel, which is actually one of the single most important events of WW1 which Australians were front and center for, came up with new tactics which are considered the "birth of modern warfare" which basically allowed the steamrolling of Germans towards the end of WW1.

The entire focus on Gallipoli is because Australia has no unifying national identity or moment, so Gallipoli was basically chosen at random to nation build around.

>>588895
Oh and I also love how they blame the British for the loss of Gallipoli, instead of Australian soldiers refusal to advance through fucking undefended territories and capture strategic points.

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>peasant is a synonym for commoner

>>588593
>Lincoln wasn't even president yet

Lincoln wasn't president when the South first declared secession, but he was when Ft. Sumter was fired upon.

>And how is the federal government resupplying a federal fort an act of war when southern states had already declared secession?

Buchanan told Anderson to take no action when secession first started to avoid any provocation. Things could have gone bad when he relocated from Ft. Moultrie to Sumter. However, when Lincoln got in power, he ordered the fort to be resupplied and that was considered an aggressive act.

The South just wanted the forts to be turned over to them, but the union wouldn't give them up.

>>580057
The average person often struggles to comprehend the differences in casualties between the Western and Eastern front in WWII.

>>582257
> Can't even into plate armor.

Have you ever touched a car that's been sitting in a parking lot for half an hour on a hot summer day?

Now imagine having that metal on your skin in the fucking desert for hours in the middle of a battle.

>colonization was good for the natives
>germany was completely innocent in both ww1 and ww2 and the entente/allies were the aggressors
>the crusades were a defensive war because christians (who weren't even catholic) lived in those areas 400 years ago
>there was absolutely no civilization in sub-saharan africa and they didn't even have agriculture
>ethiopia, mali, and songhai were only prosperous because of middle eastern influence (but when europe is only prosperous because of middle eastern influence that's completely different)
>might makes right but only when germans/christians/whatever other group I circlejerk over benefits from it

Mostly just shit I see spouted on this board from time to time.

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>>589492
>Plate Armor
>Crusades

Bah gawd.

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>>582079
>>582081
>Movie has Set in ancient Egypt
>Set is White as fuck

>>589525
When did I say anything about the crusades? I'm responding to the other anon who said the middle east was shit because they didn't have plate armour.

>>582542
>Implying God doesn't look like an African guy.

>>589531
Oh god. The skub in this thread is getting to me. I thought you were responding to an entirely different anon.

Sorry.

>>582504
Not really, there's just less of them in the film and television business for a variety of reasons.

As more of them become well off second generation immigrants you'll see a lot more actors coming out of non-white non-black circles.

>>589148
>The South just wanted the forts to be turned over to them, but the union wouldn't give them up.
Who cares what they wanted? They weren't a real country. If resupplying a fort against the South's wishes can be considered an act of aggression, then seceding and demanding that all forts be turned over to them definitely was.

>>584555

>trying to feed your own troops who are dwelling in your own fort that you funded is an act of war

but conducting a siege against a federal military installation to starve it out isn't. Got it.

If the Confederates had had any sense at all they would have waited too see if they had the border states on their side before trying to start shit.

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>>580208
You'd make Shelby Foote weep with your generalizations

>>584823
i guess he is trying to say that the average peasant medieval lifestyles aren't portrayed properly in media and they mostly show how the rich lived?

>>580178
the 400 thebans there probably did more work than the spartans desu

>>584313
/His/ is just uneducated, let's not pretend it's opinions matter

>>580057
The bullshit people say about Nazis
>skin lamps
>death camps
Etc.

>>590200
/pol/ pls leave this board

>>580228
That's honestly common perception of any type of knight, be it katana or broadsword. It's more of an iconic image than meant to teach about history.

>>584844
>entire force bar 20 men
goddamn

>Knight in full plate armor
>slow and clumsy

>>588557
underrated post

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>>589548
>Who cares what they wanted? They weren't a real country.

>>582166
>yfw uninformed 'liberals' try to paint precolumbians as superior by ignoring and whitewashing over the actual politics and empires and shit in precolombian americas
>yfw pre colombian americans are literally reduced to noble savages in the name of inclusiveness
if i was an injun id be so fucking mad

>>583333
>some people here believe the holocaust happened
>leftist haven
maybe its you who are retarded

>>590642
kek but we won that war

>>580178
It's not as romantic otherwise.

>>588398
They weren't just raiders, they were also explorers and traders.

>>582225
KANGS

>>580761
This
And the complete omission of trade-tier Vikings,
"Hey lets go to the place and kill erryone!"
"Why not sell them amber and trade for stuff we don't have for a better long term future"
"No, Fuck off back to Schleswig"

I hate the kids from back home learning about Vikings as mighty warriors etc,
"Nils you're descended from Viking Fishermen and traders like the fucking rest of us du Dummkopp!"

>>583047
Leave him alone, maps are cool.

>>583057
This

And enemy lines that just melt away after someone hits the first few niggas with his sword.

>>584619

>Be shitty peasant levied into army
>whoevenisthisking.stainedglass
>Battle happens
>See arrows being fired by enemy peasants
>Leave wooden board that i've been using as shield for arrows and run because am retarded
>Others do the same
>Get hit in the back with arrow.
>Not killed, die from infection two days later

Hhaha But the arrow didn't kill me!

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>>582273

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>>580506

>>584903
>Autonomy is generally worth more to people than peace
I think the difference is that the non-westerner will have usually prefered autonotmy to peace, but the western guiltmonger will project pacifism onto calls for autonomy.

i'm not western and im not pacifist.

>>591092
> It took them 200+ years to realize they were attacked and start defening themselves
I guess if Turkey will try to reconquer Balkans, if France will try to restore the First Empire, if Germany will try to build Forth Reich, if England will invade the USA or if Russia will try to reestablish USSR, it won't be an aggression, it will be self-defense.

>>590241
Yes tell me more about how Jews were made into soap.

>>591140
That's... I don't even know how you came to that conclusion. All of those states you mentioned were built via force. The Christian states weren't; they were being attacked simply because they were Christian.

>>591158
Tell us more about how the jews fabricated millions of deaths of their own people to control the world.

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>Christians weren't responsible for fall of Western Roman Empire

>>591174
>they were being attacked simply because they were Christian.
[Citation needed]

>>580208
THIS. FUCKING TRIGGERED

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>>591231
Christianity saved the Roman Empire.

>>591244
Odoacer was Christian to be honest familia

>>591140

> It took them 200+ years to realize they were attacked and start defening themselves

Not centralized or powerful enough to launch major offensive wars towards the muslims.

Note: i don't really agree with either of you

>>588124
The caste system was only implemented in small areas before British colonization actually.

>>591092
So Europe decides to retaliate by invading an area which had no relation with Moorish aggression?

If he mentioned even a 1/8 of these incidents during his speech which ultimately sparked the crusades, he might have redeemed his legacy for historians. But no, he made up all kinds of bullshit about muslims abusing Christians in Syria.

>>591244

please remove this offensive image

>>591351
>made up all kinds of bullshit
>made up
Pilgrims being mistreated by Seljuks was a real thing that happened though, as much as you would like to disagree

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Jesus was white

>>580178
Point being only 300 of the greek army(2400 men) were soldiers.The others werent considered elite soldiers.

>>588557
fukken savage

>>591425
> That
> Not white
Hello /int/

>>591404
Mistreated as far as what? Higher taxes? Not being allowed into a city which they didn't own in the first place? Mistreated seems an awfully deflationary term when Urban II spoke of the "vile race" eating babies and whatever bigoted incendiary speech suited his purposes. He lied to entice conflict, which makes him a war criminal whether you agree or not.

>>591467

Christians were not allowed to repair their churches, and failing to pay Jizya (which was often unreasonably harsh) resulted in slavery.

While Urban II most likely lied about a lot, you really are blind if you deny how cruel muslims could be

>>591467
>seljuks dindu nothing
t. urk

>>591433
No. No no no.
There were 300 Spartans present. While Spartans were of high quality, that in no respect cancels out the other 7000 who were present.
In reality the Spartans probably didn't make much of a difference at all.
In fact, iirc the Spartans were barely present due to religious reasons (don't take my word for this though)

>>591505
I don't deny the cruelty of the entire era.
Where I find annoyance is defenders of the Crusades pretending there was something so outrageous about what was going on in Syria which justified an European horde sacking Jerusalem.

While we're at it, were Muslims in Europe treated any better?

>>583333
Checked

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>>591174
>The Christian states weren't

>they were being attacked simply because they were Christian.

>>591549
I don't really think there were significant populations of Muslims in any Christian polities until after the First Crusade. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

>>589492
Plate isn't worn on bare skin but wearing plate in the heat is still retarded

>>584785
> Implying that a tenth of recorded history = All of human history.

Western dominance is insignificant in comparison to regions such as MENA.

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>>581944
> Hellenic society being secular

Muh Sides

>>588870
>, There were Democratic Communists and there are Dictatorial Capitalists
In theory. In practice, all communists were dictators and slaves, most capitalists, democratic socialists, social democrats, are democrats. The only "capitalist dictators" are like people like Pinochet, but they didn't codify their platform as capitalist dictatorship.

>>592006
Black men can do it. Whites are just weak and feeble, black were wearing plate armor for thousands of years in the desert.

>>591425
Considering that Jesus was not of Earthly origin why would he look like a typical Levantine Peasant of the time?

>>592127
Are you actually retarded?

>>592188
Nope. Black skin is better suited to plate armor and black men have more melanin in their muscles.

>>582560
Yeah, reducing the Holocaust to memes about ovens, soap and lampshades bothers me. People seem to think that's all that happened in Nazi Germany, ignoring that the extermination camps only came to be a thing in the 40s, and ignoring how many Jews/Gypsies/etc. were just shot in roadside executions.

Also the lack of distinction between concentration camps and extermination camps. That sort of distinction is important.

>>592209
You actually believe the holocaust? Have you earnestly reviewed the arguments of the Holocaust skeptics? Because if you face EARNESTLY reviewed those arguments, then there is no excuse for believing in the holocaust.

>>586064
Yeah maybe if
>The Spanish were forcing a large muslim minority to pay extra taxes
>The Spanish were raiding north africa for slaves
>The French invaded Spain, captured Madrid and massacred the muslims there

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>>582034
They're more related to Nuragic than anything Western.

Also Nuragic and Scandinavians shared metals.

>>592214
/pol/ needs to fucking leave

>>591746
Oh, no. There were Muslims in Europe. Spain was full of them.

They had to convert, escape, or die. Apparently adopting the Jiyza, which was very well-known to Christian Spaniards, would have been too radical for the kings of Castille and Portugal.

>>582310
The dark age is a mostly discredited term now. Historians call it the early middle ages, and it was only ever called the dark ages because it was after the fall of Western Rome and we didn't yet know much about it at the time. It's worth noting that Eastern Rome, Byzantium, stayed active for a long time and was even Orthodox Christian for a good part of its life.

Now that we DO know more about it we know that medieval Europe wasn't actually quite as oppressive and dirty as we imagine, and that for a long time monks and scientists were interchangeable, as science was just a study of god's creation. For example, Occam's Razor's biggest popularising force was an Occitan monk, and since monks were some of the only people who could still translate greek and latin they were responsible for restoring and translating/preserving a lot of philosophy and science in the west.

Ironically, it wasn't until the Renaissance that a lot of the terrible divide and inquisition shit started happening, and even then there's a lot of misinformation.

>>588088
Nope. Longbows flat-out could not penetrate plate/COP armor except at point blank range, and even then it may fail. Their main use is suppressing the fuck out of the enemy and destroying enemy morale. Their effectiveness against the Knights at Crecy and Agincourt was due to the muddy terrain and archers shooting the horses out from under knights.

Arrows and bolts from bows and crossbows are terrible at killing people- it's why guns won out over them along with ease of use. The main thing you had to worry about when injured by a bow or crossbow was the potential infection of the wound a couple days later thanks to a disease ridden battlefield. But unless it hit a critical organ or artery, you'd survive.

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>>586164

>>587127
Why is John Wayne dressed like a Mongol?

Only kind of related. The pleb vs patrician meme grinds my gears. It often ruins discussion about Roman social classes.

>>592753
>Nope. Longbows flat-out could not penetrate plate/COP armor except at point blank range, and even then it may fail.

Yes, because every soldier on the battlefied is outfitted in full plate.

>>591538
>the Spartans were barely present due to religious reason
Absolutely,the holiday of the Carnea was the main reason why only 300 spartans showed up. Internal politics also made the state hesitant to commit full force.

I guess in the grand scheme of things, 300 didn't add much weight against the sheer numbers of Persians, but it was Leonidas' leadership which helped them hold the line, and they bitterly fought to the last man. Some resorted to biting to defend the body of their slain king.

>>592206
Oh wow you clarified that you are

>>591425
What else is that guy?

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>>580332

>>594261
What that graph really ignores is what as Greece/Rome transitioned into Christianity, you saw this Byzantine/Christian to Islamic-Persian growth of technology, economy, culture, etc.

By focusing on the "pseudo-Western narrative" (Athens lead directly to the United States) and ignoring the east, or wat the east became, an East Mediterranean/Arabian center of gravity of civilization during this era, the graph completely misses this.

Also, Greece continued to develop tecnology, but for cultural reasons did not employ it (Hero of Alexandria..)