[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | Home]
4Archive logo
Turkish War of Independence
If images are not shown try to refresh the page. If you like this website, please disable any AdBlock software!

You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

Thread replies: 42
Thread images: 11
File: turkishwar.jpg (115 KB, 324x648) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
turkishwar.jpg
115 KB, 324x648
>Turkey is destroyed by Europeans in the first Balkan War
>Turkey is destroyed by Arabs and Brits in WW1
>By 1919 Turkey is surrounded by Greeks, Armenians, Brits and Frenchmen on all fronts
>Basically reduced to Ankara
>Still managed to come back and murder 500,000 innocent civilians

What went wrong /his/? How did Europe allow this to happen? Why didn't Bulgaria just walk in and take Instanbul?
>>
>>573080
The Anglos might give the Turks a few slaps every now and then, but they will never take care of the problem. Why? Not only would the Arabs have self-rule, but Russia and Persia would put the area under their influence. Think of the fame Russia would have if they took back Constantinople.

Britain is essentially the kid with all the toys who cries when kids get other toys. As such, Britain keeps the Turks in power to insure that Russia and other countries don't disrupt the balance of power. Genocide and tyranny doesn't matter to the Anglos.
>>
>>573080
That's what always happens with wars like these. People rally up, get highly motivated and push back.

A lot of people really underestimate the feeling of "no turning back, nothing to lose" and how excellent of a call to arms it is.
>>
>>573125

The Eternal Anglo is behind everything.
>>
>>573080
Well first off, those Greeks, Amenians, Brits and Frenchmen were weakened by WWI and the aftermath of it too.
>>
>>573080
>How did Europe allow this to happen?

Europe had just fought the worst war in its history
They couldnt be assed to care about a bunch of muslims chimping out in the middle east
>>
File: 1414495479002.jpg (63 KB, 627x760) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1414495479002.jpg
63 KB, 627x760
>Turkey
>Destroyed in the first Balkan War
>Destroyed in WW1
>Against Brits and Frenchmen

Yeah, nah.
>>
>>573155
Look at the battles of the first Balkan War, the Turks got destroyed. They won like 3 battles out of 30 and all of them were very minor victories. Turkish troops (apart from Janissaries) could never in history match European troops not even with "muh WW1 veterans". And in 1919 they were outnumbered 1:4 by Europeans.

>>573193
>in the middle east

Asia minor is the cradle of European civilization, the gateway to the black sea and the gateway to the middle east. It's was always very important geopolitcally.
>>
>>573214
>muh galipoli
wooow
>>
File: 1414494416836.jpg (390 KB, 2928x2928) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1414494416836.jpg
390 KB, 2928x2928
>>573248
There is no >muh galipoli

Turkey clearly lost the first Balkan War, but the territories damaged were the one that the winners got.
They got some of them back in the second Balkan War.

In the WW1 too, they didn't have been destroyed. Their empire ahs been dismantled, the current territory of Turkey didn't suffered harshly. (Compared to Germany in WW2, or nothern France in WW1)

Finally, in their Independance War, Brits and Frenchmen barely did anything, they just defended most of the territories they took. But didn't try (as WW1 just finished) to put a final blow with the Greeks and Armenians. Greeks were greedy, they failed. Too bad for them.

So yeah, saying a "destroyed" Turkey won on all fronts is ridiculous.

Yes, they were in bad shape during this war, yes they suffered, but no, it wasn't a country in ruins that was attacked by Europeans.
>>
>>573080

>What went wrong /his/? How did Europe allow this to happen?

The partitioning of Turkey wasn't tremendously beneficial to anyone but the Greeks and the Armenians. Once their forces were defeated it was always going to be a struggle to uphold the Treaty of Sevres. The nationalists led by Ataturk did a good job of isolating individual members of the Triple Entente to peace out.

>Russia
The Russians were in a state of Civil War and weren't that fussed about ceding territory claimed by the Armenians once their forces had been defeated in Eastern Turkey. Retaking that territory would have required a significant diversion of Russian manpower at that point, which wasn't particularly expedient at the time.

Joseph Stalin is actually recorded as having played an influential role in speeding up negotiations between the Bolsheviks and the Turks during the treaties of Moscow and Kars - and was targeted by the Turkish delegation as an opponent of Armenian interests.

It's also important to note that the Turkish nationalists looked like they might establish a socialist republic at that point. Ataturk addressed Lenin as his comrade, claimed that he was looking to establish state socialism in Turkey, and called on the Turkish youth to be socialists before anything else and understand dialectic materialism. He abandoned this language as soon as the necessary treaties were signed with Bolshevik Russia.

>France
The French attempted to occupy Cilicia and Southern Anatolia but were immediately faced with fierce local resistance in the latter region and struggled to hold onto territory in places like Antep, Urfa and Marash. Using Armenian volunteers didn't help and it was obvious that they weren't going to be able to hold onto the land without deploying hundreds of thousands of troops in difficult terrain.

The French decided it was worth suing for peace with the Turks, ceding areas they couldn't possibly hold onto in exchange for recognition of the French Mandate of Syria.
>>
>>573504

>Britain
The British PM David Lloyd George and Winston Churchill (who was Secretary of State for the Colonies at that point) were strongly in favour of upholding Greek interests and the Treaty of Sevres. However, with the defeat of the Greek Army by the nationalists in Asia Minor, they were left in an impossible position.

Read up on the Chanak Crisis to understand more but the challenges they faced primarily came from:

>Opposition to war from a public fatigued by an exhausting conflict in Western Europe
>A lack of support from members of the Commonwealth like Canada, who made it clear that they would make the call about whether to commit to renewed hostilities rather than automatically falling in line with the wishes of London
>The refusal of France and Italy to join in a war against the nationalist Turks
>The potential for a nationalist uprising in Constantinople, which had been infiltrated by Ataturk's agents and gunrunners for months on end
>Opposition to war from their Conservative coalition partners, who supported the nationalist Turks over the Greeks
>A loss of initiative on the part of their Greek allies, who had been completely routed in Asia Minor

All of this led to the British agreeing to the Armistice of Mudanya, which preceded the Treaty of Lausanne, concluding the Turkish War of Independence.
>>
File: Caucusus front.jpg (65 KB, 300x411) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
Caucusus front.jpg
65 KB, 300x411
>>573080
I don't understand why people always knock on Turks here.. they are pretty top tier military wise when under competent leadership (AKA Mutafa Kemal). I feel like its just fashinable at the moment to hate on them and discredit everything they do with "mehmet" and "kebab" memes . The Turkish war of independence was pretty astouding given Turks bouncing back that hard after WW1.
>>
>>573504

>It's also important to note that the Turkish nationalists looked like they might establish a socialist republic at that point. Ataturk addressed Lenin as his comrade, claimed that he was looking to establish state socialism in Turkey, and called on the Turkish youth to be socialists before anything else and understand dialectic materialism. He abandoned this language as soon as the necessary treaties were signed with Bolshevik Russia.

Why are Turks so sneaky /his/?
>>
>>573520
Butt hurt Greeks with no jobs or muh heritage American Greeks
>>
>>573237
>first Balkan War
That was largely because the government was retarded and didn't delay enough for the troops to mobilize. iirc Turks were actually outnumbered for most of that war.
>>
>>573537
Nope. Turks aren't sneaky. They are too bold and straight. You can see this in their battles and diplomacy. Ataturk is an exception to this. He knew realpolitik and did what he deemed necessary in his regime. Ismet Inonu also has this cunning attitude but it dies with them.
>>
>>573520
because the ottoman army was only superior to western rivals for a very very short period of time, after that they used their numbers rather than quality
their strength was in empire building through administration of a huge variety of people, but not much else

>>573576
>>573537
being ex-steppe niggers turks have always dabbled in realpolitiks, and betrayal in opportune moments against political opponents has always been a common practice. check the earlier years of ottoman-byzantine relations and how turks treated with arabs during the growth into middle-east and north africa
>>
>>573686
>being ex-steppe niggers
>>/pol/
>>
>>573686
>check the earlier years of ottoman-byzantine relations and how turks treated with arabs during the growth into middle-east and north africa

This. On the Battle of Maritsa they agreed to have the battle on the morning, but the Turks broke the agreement and attacked the (drunken) Serbs at night.

I think it's part of the steppe mentality to "outwit" your opponent with lies. I remember reading something similar in regards to the mongols. They didn't have a concept of honour such as Europeans or Arabs did.
>>
>>573686
There biggest problems was policies made as early as the mid 1500's that assumed that the Europeans will never catch up to them

By the time Catherine took Crimea it was too late for them to even compete with European powers
Not to mention that there opponents had Population booms that they never had untill The end of the empire ironicly
>>
File: ottoman union.jpg (368 KB, 500x572) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
ottoman union.jpg
368 KB, 500x572
>>573995
There is a reason people say "never trust a turk" in Europe. Muslims consider breaking their word to non-muslims a common practice, Christians are idiots for ever believing otherwise.
>>
File: atatürk mode.jpg (67 KB, 689x960) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
atatürk mode.jpg
67 KB, 689x960
>>
File: 1452091856344.jpg (144 KB, 736x1045) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1452091856344.jpg
144 KB, 736x1045
>>573995
>Turks broke the agreement and attacked the (drunken) Serbs at night.
there is literally no source for this agreement and even if there is the Serbs are retarded for making such an agreement and getting drunk the night before a battle. sounds like more anti-turk butthurt and damage control for a successful night-attack.
>>
>>573995
>they actually got drunk before a battle
>"abloo bloo, the turks are evil"
dumb serbs deserve the loss
>>
>>573995
Fucking Serbs.

>Be Ottoman Soldier
>Be ready for battle
>Random Serbian approached you, saying he has important message for your general.
>Bring him to him
>"Hey turk, we want to get blackout drunk. You come back tommorow and we fight battle OK?"
>General nods.
>Serb, already drunk, stumbles back to his camp.
>All Ottomans look at each other wondering if this is really fucking happening.
>>
File: maritsa.png (2 MB, 957x1899) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
maritsa.png
2 MB, 957x1899
>>573995

Oh man, that's a beauty.
>>
>>573248
>symbolic eating of sausage
i'm in tears
>>
>>575942
literally google "battle of maritsa drunk"
>>
>>576346
Its weird to think that around a thousand men can scare a force 70 times bigger than themselves so hard that they literally threw themselves into the river.
>>
>>573520
When you kick too much ass over a long timespan, even your most loyal vassals will start bitching about you.
>>
>>576552
Often happened with the turks and their badass music.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Nagykanizsa

Turkish wikipedia and several sources list HRE numbers as great as 150.000 troops but western wikipedia byzantine-anti turk boos will NEVER lat that stand in the english article.

But when thers a low and a high guess for turkish troop numbers in wiki, the big one is always quoted by everybody. Shameful revisionist mentality
>>
>>573287
>So yeah, saying a "destroyed" Turkey won on all fronts is ridiculous.
No its not.

>Yes, they were in bad shape during this war, yes they suffered, but no, it wasn't a country in ruins that was attacked by Europeans.
Top kek. Our forces were irregular volunteers who were already fighting against occupying forces of the alliance. The creation of our "army", what basically was undermanned and underequiped army forcing a stalemate against the advancing Greek forces who outnumbered and outgunned Turkish nationl forces. The bolshevik agreement gave us a great boost in morale, prestige, credibility

Karabekir went on to rape the armenians out of the north east and local volunteers literally beat the French in the south east

Western front battles were all about outnumbered and outgunned Turkish forces facing a greater enemy, but the experience of Turkish officers, fighting with friendly locals, better morale and having higher quality of soldiers who were veterans of WW resulted in Turkish victory after encirclement and complete destruction of Greek forces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dumlup%C4%B1nar

Turish forces who advanced after the Greek forces retreated who destroyed all farmland/villages/small cities in the aegean part (and who they today cry about turks being barbarian, top fucking kek), were finally liberated in Izmir, 9 september 1922. After gaining control of anatolia, caucasus, mesopotamia regions of Turkey, national assambly focuses on straits which met with great resistence from the Brittish government. The war was about to end but out forces already gained legimitacy as a legal government, we could not give up the straits.
>>
>>577411
Brits gambled on Ataturk not daring to wage war, and were hoping that we would negotiate some peace with a middle ground, but they knew the public would never support a war against self determination. Kemal called their bluff by marching all forces to the straits, and organized our residents to attack brittish forces in the city.

After our nationcal assmebly gained the support of Istanbul citizens, it was desperate for the Britts. Britts called for a peace conference, and a cease fire was signed that left east thrace under Turkish control. Straits would be discussed later.

so tl:dr

ALLIED GOT BTFO! we recked there motherz, stay salty bitches
>>
>>577411
>complete destruction of Greek forces.

Turkish losses: 13,000
Greek losses: 10,000 (out of 130,000 troops)
>>
>>577611
It was part of the greco Turkish wars.
>>
>>573080
Didn't Lloyd-George sperg out when this happened and tried to boost his support with the Conservatives, but actually lost support because noone gave a fuck?
>>
File: Iraniankek.jpg (24 KB, 826x552) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
Iraniankek.jpg
24 KB, 826x552
>>575984
>>575949
>>576346
b-but le remuv kebab meme guise ...
Serbs are the the most powerful race in the world
>>
>>573125
This
>>
ITT t. Onurs
>>
>>573125
The UK always wanted to constrain Russian influence but they've pretty much almost always supported Greeks over Turks.
>>
>>577637

Yeah, it pretty much destroyed him as Prime Minister.
Thread replies: 42
Thread images: 11
Thread DB ID: 441854



[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / biz / c / cgl / ck / cm / co / d / diy / e / fa / fit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mu / n / news / o / out / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vip /vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Home]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at [email protected] with the post's information.