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Why didn't anyone help fight in Rwanda?...
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

Thread replies: 53
Thread images: 5
Why didn't anyone help fight in Rwanda? Why did the world allow a genocide to happen?
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>>567046
The Americans fucked up in Somalia a year earlier and no one had to stomach to lose men over petty African bullshit because really who gives a fuck about Africa
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There was Roméo dallaire a french canadian who was in charge of the UN or ONU peace keeper . he wrote a book named "j'ai serré la main du diable " wich mean i shook the hand of the devil. Deep shit nigga
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>>567066
Is he the guy in the movie who was telling the main character that they think they're dirt? What was the book about?
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Becuase they used word art for their documentaries
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>>567070
Litteraly its a ethical essayer on why did western civilisation let that happen in front office there on eye and is own point of view / moral conflict in the operation
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>>567046
Geopolitics within the Great Lakes area and outside of it.
UN being constantly neutered of hindered

France doing some pretty disgusting things.
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>>567086
What is the moral conflict?

>>567092
>>France doing some pretty disgusting things.
what did they do?
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no oil
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>>567092
don't ignore the horrible things the dutch did either
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>>567098
He is a french Canadian (like me) military officer and he did not had thé right equipement , not enough man , not trained for that kind of conflict / war theater and he receive questionable ordre like doing nothing to help a village who was completly killed by tutis and then hé got there and saw all the kid killed with matchet or bricks , violents shit man, then there like 75 pages of guilt trip
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>>567119
what did they do?

>>567127
That sounds pretty heavy man. fuck. Why wouldn't they give them the man power
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>>567062
Except he has a point (that he may not realize). Why would whites give a shit about blacks? There's genociding going on in northern Nigeria as we speak (amongst other places) and nobody gives a shit about that either.
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>>567064
The Chinese
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>>567119
I mean what the French were doing the escalation of the genocide.
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>>567062
He was paraphrasing a line from Hotel Rwanda I think.
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>>567046
The biggest thing to remember is it happened devastatingly fast.

It lasted 100 days. For comparison, the U.S. in holy terror mode took 27 days to launch an invasion of Afghanistan after the September 11th attacks.

So even if we had uniform political consensus, and responded the moment it started, it would be a slow response.

Second, it wasn't a clear situation on the ground. The Rwandan Genocide didn't happen out of the blue. There WAS fighting in Rwanda, and foreign actors WERE helping. This was a huge cause of the genocide.

The RPF had invaded Rwanda in 1990, and there had been fighting up until shortly before Habyarimana was killed. Habyarimana was killed for trying to broker peace, by parties unknown. And then the fighting started up again.

Which also raises the question of who exactly is going to run Rwanda afterwards. Not always a good plan.

Historically, the aftermath of the Rwandan civil war was and still IS messy. More people died in the aftermath. Rwanda killed more people after the genocide by repeated campaigns into the Congo to secure their borders from Hutu militias then died in the genocide.

Not to mention the effects on Burundi that are STILL happening.

>>567098
France refused to abandon the Hutu government even after the Genocide came out. It took them the better part of a decade to stop shielding them and stop trying to engage in /pol/ tier denial and moral equivalency.
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The problem was that we didn't allow the war to finish. There is a current push in global politics to end wars before they can start. Instead of letting the weaker side be crushed, we arm and defend the initial weaker side who then becomes the stronger side and fucks shit up. This is EXACTLY what happened in the Rwandan Civil War. The Hutus were prevented from finishing their business, we armed the Tutsis who then did the exact same thing to the Hutus and then more.

Their involvement in the Second Congo War ended up killing nearly 5,000,000 in the early 2000s.
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>>567142
>>I mean what the French were doing the escalation of the genocide.
???
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>>567137
At this point, China's stake in Africa was an inherited relic from the Mao era, related to keeping their relevance to the worldwide communist movement against the Soviets.
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>>567133
International shit hole i guesse people where more concern about other things around the globe at that time and its only rwadan ,i mean there prime exportation around the world must be AIDS , like nothing that attract country attention , if they had oli pit it would have been à differents question
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>>567159
The RPF didn't wasn't armed because they were losing the war, they were armed because of regional interests. The genocide happened because the Hutus were losing the war.
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>>567136
It's a global world now.
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>>567159
Casting it as Hutu vs. Tutsi is a tired old oversimplification.
The outgoing government was Hutu. The plan was for there to be a consensus government of Hutus and Tutsis. The UN backed the consensus government. The French backed the outgoing Hutu government.
The outgoing Hutu government stirred up racist Hutu militias to kill anyone who wanted the consensus government to come in. This is why you sometimes hear people say that the people murdered were "Tutsis and moderate Hutus".
But yeah, as noted by
>>567158
the French continued to shield the outgoing Hutu government, even as they moved into DRC and started causing all kinds of shit there. So as usual, colonial powers continue to fuck shit up.
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>>567171
IF they had oil it would've been worse because other countries would back the side ofthe conflict that would give them concessions and favour them more.
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>The two ethnic groups are actually very similar - they speak the same language, inhabit the same areas and follow the same traditions.However, Tutsis are often taller and thinner than Hutus, with some saying their origins lie in Ethiopia.
>When the Belgian colonists arrived in 1916, they produced identity cards classifying people according to their ethnicity.
>The Belgians considered the Tutsis to be superior to the Hutus. Not surprisingly, the Tutsis welcomed this idea, and for the next 20 years they enjoyed better jobs and educational opportunities than their neighbours.

So we can blame Belgium?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-13431486
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>>567174
>>567217

Ah thanks guys. I love learning that stuff. Got any more info?
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>>567217
Excellent post, friend.

I realized I fell into the "RPF versus Hutus" narrative myself.

>>567228
Partially, but not entirely. Obviously the agency of African actors takes absolute primacy.

Also, the Tutsi were not exactly great to the Hutus before the arrival of the Belgians. We talk about "ethnic groups" but it can also be useful to talk about the Tutsi and Hutu as "castes". It was possible at least in some points in Great Lakes history, to shift from being a Hutu to a Tutsi just by owning cattle.

So on the one hand, the Belgian's likely racialized a situation, on the otherhand, it was a shitty situation to begin with. And again, it was commited by the Africans themselves, for African reasons.

The British tried to racialize India's internal conflicts, and it didn't take.
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>>567245
>The British tried to racialize India's internal conflicts, and it didn't take.

They kinda cemented the caste system to stay longer it and made certain groups the red headed stepchildren on India that still last to his day
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>>567235
Sure. The RPF were armed initially by Tanzania to fight against Uganda. Once they were on the 'winning side' in Uganda, the new Ugandan government decided a bunch of well armed Tutsis hanging around was a bad idea, so they pointed them at Rwanda.

From Uganda and Tanzania's perspective, it was a win win.

If the RPF is successful, they have a buddy in charge (As Kagame would prove to be). If the RPF is unsuccessful, they can raise and lower aid to them as a way to put pressure on Rwanda. It's a common tactic throughout Africa to apply pressure and interest on other states.
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>>567179
Thanks for that redundant tautology
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>>567250
Oh yeah. I'm not saying the British were swell, or that India's relations are a model in any way, but India AFAIK, never took to the model of Aryans versus Negroids, and entered into rigid, racialized extremism over it.
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>>567046
Dunno much about this conflict. Where can I find some good info?
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>>567253
Thanks, I forgot about the Uganda factor in all this.
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>Land locked country in the centre of africa surrended by jungle and nothingness
How would the world help them again?
ISIS is a few km away from the mediterranean sea and sourrounded by military bases and we cannot do anything.
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>>567320
The other factor to consider is the anti-colonial angle.

On Tanzania this support is coming from Nyerere, from Uganda, Obote. These were first generation African socialists. Support of the RPF and later their 'duty' against Mobuto was also seen in terms of a longstanding conflict against semi-colonial regimes.
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western cruelty
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>>567046
>>567422

Western indifference. None of the UN countries care about the ideals they claim to uphold. Some pretty horrible shit was going down in Yugoslavia, Congo, Rwanda, Sierre Leone, and Somalia during the nineties. It didn't matter. It wasn't terribly relevant to the interests of most Western nations, so nothing was done.

>ISIS is massacring Yazidis and Mandeans by the hundreds right now and the best most of the international community can do is to say that they find such actions disagreeable
>This is going to keep happening
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was he a good guy?
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>>567235
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>>567552
Jesus
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>>567552
that's nuts
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>>567338
>we cannot do anything
>implying
The West had no problem invading Iraq the first two times.
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>>567468
The people of those countries do stand for those ideals but don't trust their governments to do so.
Look at Iraq it was suppose to be a humanitarian liberation to bring freedom but was just a way to get rid of someone interfering in the buisness interests of the us and the gulf states
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>>567552
This is a good enough analysis, but the African Prussia is actually Eritrea.
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>>568148
I didn't think Eritrea ever had its shit together enough to actually project power against other African states. I thought they were kind of irrelevant after breaking away from Ethiopia. Care to explain?
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>>567468
What's the alternative? World police?
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Because white supremacism ideals being forced on the African people. I'm too lazy to look up which group, but it all happened because Europeans favored one group over the other during the colonial era
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I've spent the last 2 hours reading about the Rwandan Genocide and the Congo Wars and my question is: did the Tutsis do anything wrong?
>Get empowered by colonials
>Get power taken away by colonials
>Newly empowered Hutus persecute you
>Fight back as RPA and take control of Rwanda once again
>Bitch ass Zaire/Congo keeps funding génocidaires that fled to overthrow your government
>Have to enter the Congo to avoid another genocide

Were they that bad to the Hutus during the era of colonial rule? Or is this just some classic tribal antics where group A and B hate eachother because of "muh tribe"?
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>>567075
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>>567263
>implying burger missionaries based in hyderabad aren't doing that in front of my eyes right now.
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>countries act as world police
muh imperialism!
>countries let third world shitholes desintegrate
why did they let it happen??
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ive been thinking about this a bit lately

to summarize my understanding of the thread:
rawanda isnt an isolated example, "we" allow many attrocities to happen, we do help out, just not enough, we dont help out more because it doesnt really bother us

so, for me, the question is why dont "we" care more. and by "we", i refer to the culture of civilized contries that like to think we care.

i feel like im the perfect example. i feel bad where i hear about nasty things in the world around be, but i do little to help out.

so my question becomes, why doesnt this bother me enough to motivate me to be better? or, for a stronger question, how can people pay more attention to movies and food than to attrocities, while still thinking they care?

i think its cultural delusion. self-delusion as a normal thing for people to do on a daily basis may not be generally accepted by people, but i use it to support this idea. the delusion is "we are good, generous, caring people, even though we pay more attention to things like tv shows than genocide and war", and while this is often observed by people in their own lives as irrational, the real reason it is so easily accepted by so many is because it is supported by the attitudes of everyone else.

so, a simple lie that we tell ourselves, that we are good people that care about issues like this when we dont really, becomes a cultural delusion.

and thats as far as ive gotten, how am i going, what do you think
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