Beyond the remove kebab memes, why did the breakup of Yugoslavia

>>562499
Where does the remove kebab meme come from? I've seen the Serbia Strong video but he didn't say that in it did he?

>>562509
It literally comes from 4chan. It all comes from 4chan.

>>562513
But why is it linked to him?

If the media is so anti-Christian and pro-Muslim, how come the events in the nineties aren't reported as Christian militias committing ethnic cleansing on Muslims, and instead refer to the culprits by their ethnic group?

>>562513
it actually comes from the original description on the tupac serbia video by cboyardee, which became the "remove kebab from the premises. you will get caught" copypasta.

>>562518
Do you want me to explain why Patrick Bateman checks these dubs too?

>>562528
>how come the events in the nineties aren't reported as Christian militias committing ethnic cleansing on Muslims,

But it is

>>562499
think about all the civil disorder the iraq war caused, it was actually pretty similar despite that country not balkanizing (though honestly it should have)

remember how under Saddam (who was a sunni) the sunnis despite being a minority of the population were given special privileges in government and the military? In return for this they were exceedingly loyal to him because they knew if he were overthrown a potentially resentful shiite government would take over and the sunnis would at best lose their privileged place and at worst face violent reprisals by their own government (many of which were direct retaliation unfortunately)

The situation in Yugoslavia upon its dissolution was quite similar, except with Serbs as the Sunnis, they were the force that was trying to hold the country together because they were the "master race" of it so to speak.

>>562509
It's from an old pasta:

REMOVE KEBAB remove kebab you are worst turk. you are the turk idiot you are the turk smell. return to croatioa. to our croatia cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo….ahahahaha ,bosnia we will never forgeve you. cetnik rascal FUck but fuck asshole turk stink bosnia sqhipere shqipare..turk genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead turk..ahahahahahBOSNIA WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget ww2 .albiania we kill the king , albania return to your precious mongolia….hahahahaha idiot turk and bosnian smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE KEBAB FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught. russia+usa+croatia+slovak=kill bosnia…you will ww2/ tupac alive in serbia, tupac making album of serbia . fast rap tupac serbia. we are rich and have gold now hahahaha ha because of tupac… you are ppoor stink turk… you live in a hovel hahahaha, you live in a yurt tupac alive numbr one #1 in serbia ….fuck the croatia ,..FUCKk ashol turks no good i spit in the mouth eye of ur flag and contry. 2pac aliv and real strong wizard kill all the turk farm aminal with rap magic now we the serba rule .ape of the zoo presidant georg bush fukc the great satan and lay egg this egg hatch and bosnia wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our clay we will crush u lik a skull of pig. serbia greattst countrey

>>562537
Any sources on that?

>>562533
Actually, yes. 4chan history fascinates me.

>>562577
Here's an abridged version for normies:

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/dubs-guy-check-em

>>562577
lurk moar newfag

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>>562533

>>562571

Litterally every article written on the subject since it happened?

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>>562533

>>562533
That was pretty fuckin good patty boy

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>>562499
Tito used a myth of a history of continuous history of ethnic conflict to glorify and justify the communist regime.

The various Nationalist projects then adapted this narrative to justify their existence as a historical Nation. As all these early national myths were based on a myth of conflict that broke out.

There were also many issues when it came to both religious and ethnic identification.
On the national census only 30% or so of people put Yugoslav as their ethnicity,

Then in the 70's they made it so that one could put Muslim for ethnicity. So the ethnicity of albanian became conflated with Muslim identity. Later as did Serbian become synonymous with Orthodoxy and the Croats and Slovens with Catholicism.

And there is also simply the matter of the narcissism of minor difference. In the previous empires differences were respected and somewhat real between ethnic and religious groups.

However communism and modernisation had homogenised the lifestyles of all of these different ethnic group. When the regime fell apart they began to attempt to focus on what made them different, and as there was very little that truly separated them an intense dislike began to brew between these groups.

>>562537
Literally only ever heard the perpetrators called "bosniak serbs" while the victims are usually called "bosnian Muslims." No one ever really mentioned the fact that the serbs were Christian

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>>562499
Gee, I wonder.

>>562737
>So the ethnicity of albanian became conflated with Muslim identity
that's bosniaks not albanians. albanians are partially christian and only relevant in the later yugoslav wars/the kosovo conflict

>>562513
>4chan trying to take credit for everything

It literally comes from a youtube video that was posted on Krautchan and spread from there.

>Srebrenica is genocide
When will this meme end?

>>562499
3 religions and like 10 ethnicities all living closely together and suddenly becoming nation states is a recipe for disaster

>>562528
Because the ethnic group implies religious denomination in the Balkans, everyone knows Bosniaks are Muslims and Serbs and Croats are Christian

>>563103
>MUH 8 GORILLION

>>563085
back to /pol/ with you

>>562499
After Tito's death, nationalism became a thing again and Miloševič wanted to centralise the federation and turn it into a Greater Serbia. After the federation started breaking, Yugoslavia wanted to keep the Serbian-inhabited lands in Croatia and Bosnia, thus leading to several wars at once and a lot of killing.

>>562737
30% of Yugoslavs is too much, more like 5%.

And it was the Bosnians who were counted as Muslims in the census. That goes much further back than second Yugoslavia as it was used even in Austria-Hungary. The Albanians in Kosovo were counted as Albanians and their struggle for independence/union with Albania was not connected to the war in Bosnia.

Your point about homogenised ethnicities is very generalised and false to a great extent. It's just the Serbo-Croatian language that was homogenised, and it was spoken by many ethnicities only as a second language.

>>562499
Here's from someone who is from ex-yu and has devoted quite some time for this topic:

The UN (which was owned by the US) basically recognized Croatia and Bosnia under the governments of Tudjman and Izetbegovic before they were militarily in control of the territories (they were literally armchair presidents by that time). The constitutions of these republics were very complex and they were unable to just secede on majority vote because they were considered multiethnic and required majority vote of each ethnicity. So instead of getting a peaceful solution through years of negotiations, they went just straight into a civil war thanks to the US. And because the Croats and Bosnians unilaterally secedes, the Serbs decided to unilaterally secede from Bosnia and Croatia as well.

It's the same as with Assad now. Instead of negotiating the west just armed and the opposition knowing this would lead to civil war and loss of life. Divide and conquer, no greater wisdom than that.

>>563370
t. Serb

>>563103
It is genocide. I don't sympathise with the Izetbegovic government, but you gotta call a dog a dog.

>>562737
>people are of different nationality so they just mindlessly kill each other

Nah, doesn't work like that man. It was engineered by the US on one side and Milosevic on the other. Whatever were their reasons I don't know. But I want to inform you:

When Slovenia tried to secede in 1991, the YNA was able to shut it down in less than 24 hours. The republics voted on the military operation and the decision was split, with Serbia having the deciding vote - HOWEVER Milosevic voted against it (to use it as a pretense to split the Serbian region off as well). This is a little known fact of history. Excellent documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_PzsfXbyAw

>>563395
Montenegrin. And none of which I said is actually false. The civil war led to loss of life which could have been prevented and the same results could've been achieved peacefully.

You are either an butthurt Albanian who has no concept of history, or a really, really stupid Bosnian/Croatian - because most of them agree that the war was senseless and only set all of us back.

>>563431
>the same results

And by the same results I mean actual results. Bosnia is a split up dysfunctional country that will not get a working economy in a 100 years.

>>563443
Bosnia has been a shithole since the Ottoman Empire

>>563451
It was a successful constituent republic of Yugoslavia with it's own economy and positive budget, and it even hosted the 1984 winter Olympics.

>>563471
> it even hosted the 1984 winter Olympics.
Big deal, all that means is they kicked the homeless out for a few months

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>>563480
It is a big deal, banana republics don't get to host the winter Olympics.

>>563489
That's because it doesn't snow where Bananas grow dipshit

>>563411
OP here. Excellent post anon.

>>563411
>When Slovenia tried to secede in 1991, the YNA was able to shut it down in less than 24 hours.

Is that why the war ended in ten days and the Yugoslav army left the country by October? They didn't shut down anything.

>>563547
Read my post. Milosevic voted against the military operation. The YNA was the 4th biggest army in Europe at that time.

>>563571
*YPA in English, Yugoslav People's Army

>>563501
Kekski

>>563571
The size of the army didn't help because the soldiers didn't want to fight and the leadership knew that they would soon have to fight in Croatia.

>>563501
Didn't stop Jamaica from winning with the bobsled, tbqh.

>>563643
They had John Candy, it wasn't a fair fight

knowyourmeme isn't a very accurate source of information regarding memes, yet it's the only one we have.

>>563643
I repeat it again for the slow-witted:

The only part of the YPA that fought in Slovenia were the border guard that was stationed there and consisted of recruits, some choppers, and one or two tanks.
The actual main army that included aircraft, tanks, and fucking professional soldiers (i.e. the actual 4th largest army in Europe) NEVER fought in Slovenia, because the order for the ALREADY PLANNED military operation was denied by Milosevic. And the soldiers would have very well obeyed their orders.

>>563684
They brought in garrisons from Karlovec, Zagreb and Varaždin, it wasn't just the troops in Slovenia. In truth, the ones in Slovenia did the least fighting as they were mostly surrounded in their barracks. It's true, they could've brought in more units but Croatia was the bigger threat because of the Serbian population there.

>>562499
>why did the breakup of Yugoslavia trigger so much civil disorder and genocide?

Because the project to build one Yugoslav nation failed. Serbs remained Serbs, Croats remained Croats and so on. The time together created a lots of mutual grievances and everyone thought that THEY are discriminated against.

Serbs thought that they are not given a voice equal to their numerical weight. Croats thought they were squashed by Serbian nationalism. Bosnian identity disintegrated altogether, Albanians thought they were treated like second-class and so on.

>>563819
This. Tito was the only guy who could sort of keep it together

>>563768
>Yugoslav army had 642,000 active personnel
>Army involved in the Slovenia war 22,300 personnel

You are making me tired. Karlovec, Zagreb and Varadzin are literally on the border to Slovenia. They didn't need executive orders to "bring them in" it was just standard threat-response. The YPA did not fight in the Slovenia war.

they're slavs. slavs are savages.

>>563878
slav is not an ethnic group

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>>563863
>The YPA did not fight in the Slovenia war.

Kek, I didn't know the Territorial Defence fought ghosts.

When Slovenia declared independence, the Yugoslav army from the aforementioned three cities and military barracks on Slovenian soil were given the order to secure te border crossings on the borders with Italy and Austria, the reason being a supposed threat of a NATO attack. This is where they used tanks - yes, they did use those. Bombing the main Slovene airport and Slovene radio and television transmitters was another one of the army's goals. That's where Yugoslav planes were involved.

One of the reasons the war in Slovenia didn't go the way of the other Yugoslav wars was the fact that the Yugoslav military command didn't want to risk a NATO intervention for Slovenia, a country without a significant Serbian population. Because they failed to destroy the transmitters fast enough, the world learned what was going on in Slovenia and it was clear that Yugoslavia was the aggressor.

>>563997
>I didn't know the Territorial Defence fought ghosts.

The fought recruits of the local border guard.

>NATO intervention for Slovenia

Slovenia was never a NATO country.

>Because they failed to destroy the transmitters fast enough

lmao. I thought you were trying to troll me, now I know you're legit stupid. Also, you failed to address the troop count disparity in >>563863

Think of something far-fetched so I can laugh.

>>564084
>Committing 100% of your army to a localized civil disturbance in the smallest republic when areas like Macedonia or Croatia could possibly flare up as well
I think you're the retard mate

>>564105
>100% of your army

22,000 is 3.5% of 650,000. Try again.

>Macedonia could flare up

lmao.

>>564084
Slovenia may not have been part of NATO (it is now, though, just to clear things up) but Italy and Austria did send their troops on the borders. And Bosnia wasn't in the NATO either and they received help.

I don't see how I'm trolling you. The transmitters were an important target. Well, it also didn't help that Yugoslavian planes killed a bunch of foreign reporters on the Brnik airport.

As I have said, why would they send in all of their troops when Croatia was also a hotspot.

>>564133
Is it common to equip the border guards (glorified police) with tanks and APCs?

>>564154
>Italy and Austria fighting a war against Yugoslavia

I think the lmao train has no brakes. I actually gew up in Austria and have many Italian friends, so this is why it's so clear to me. Maybe you are American and just legitmately don't have a clue.

As for the transmitter stuff - I don't have a clue how you concluded they were the only method of information gathering in 1991. Probably you are just quite stupid.

>>564158
Yes. Having a tank or APC is incredibly useful in an infantry unit. Of course the majority of tanks is in motorized units.

>>564219
So they gave the border guard (within their own nation I might add, not the border guard against Austria or Hungary or anybody else, but the one between 2 constituent states) the latest military technology? Seems odd, this is like if Alabama was deploying M1-A2 Abrams in case Georgia invaded

>>564249
>the border guard (within their own nation

Tanks are incredibly useful against civil uprising and insurgents. See Prague/Hungarian anti-communist uprsings, etc. etc.

>latest military technology

A bit far fetched for soviet tanks from 70s.

>if Alabama was deploying M1-A2 Abrams

So I was correct and you are American after all (why am I not surprised). America, land of the fat, home of the dumb.

>>562499
It's was absolutely imperative thath e globalist machine prevent a Germany or Italy (unification of similarly related but separate people's into a cohesive new nation) type nation from coming into existence.

>>563313
nice meme.

>>564321
Actually I'm Australian, I just couldn't think of a better comparison for the fucking border police in Yogoslavia, how about deploying Challengers against Wales instead?

>>564219
I'm a Slovene, actually.
Both Austria and Italy sent their forces on the border.
The radio and television transmitters were crucial in informing both the Slovene and foreign public of the happenings in the country

>>564361
>Yugoslavia existed in its communist form since 1945 and in general since 1918. You've got things mixed up.

>>562528
>If the media is so anti-Christian and pro-Muslim
The American media is profoundly anti-Muslim

>>564388
>I'm Australian

I'm dissapointed. The few Aussies I've met very pretty chill people, not interested in stupidtiy and stuff. Seeing as how the UK army has around 400 Challenger tanks, I'm pretty sure some of those are "deployed against Wales". That, or they are all stationed in one barracks in London. I really don't know, you'll have to call, maybe you'll get a commonwealth discount on your phone bill.

>>564404
>Both Austria and Italy sent their forces on the border.

Which doesn't mean they were willing to fight Sherlock, because no Austrian or Italian would even stub their toe for inner-Yugoslav problems. Slovenia still only fought some 22,000 recruits.

>>564448
I never said they would, only that they sent their forces to secure their borders. But there is no way of knowing whether NATO as a whole would act in Slovenia if the war was longer and bloodier.

>>564437
I'm disappointing you're pretending the "border forces" aren't regular army cunts so I suppose we're even

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>>562533
Dayum.

>>564471
>Would NATO as a whole act

Let's see:
>NATO only has obligation towards members
>NATO neighbouring countries of Austria, Italy and Greece wouldn't even risk a soldier
>There were no stealth bombers so any air strikes would've been met by the (at the time) formidable Yugoslav airforce
>USA would have to land troops somewhere in Italy and walk them through shitty terrain to some shitty, hilly battlefield deep in enemy territory and suffer considerable losses
>YPA was said to be able to withstand a Soviet invasion
>The YPA would've retaken Slovenia in less than 24 hours

So, no, no, and still no, and no fucking way. No, and no, no. No - in case it wasn't clear enough. Kucan knew Slobo would let him go, I think he even admitted Slobo told him at the communist party meet.

>>564476
>regular army cunts

They weren't. They were recruits mostly. There is tons of footage from the war, and it's recruits only, literally 18yo kids.

>>564552
And look, I want to add, I'm not a fan of communism. I also believe Slovenia, and Croatia, and all the republics should've been independet. But I know it could've been achieved by negotiations, and the only reason it was done with war was ??? I don't know. Maybe they were US puppets (possibly), or they did it for power (they all became presidents for many years thereafter), or for money (organized crime was rampant).

Either way, all I try is to have a realistic, humanistic stance based on facts. Both nationalism and a blind belief in the media fueled the war in the first place.

>>564552
>NATO only has obligation towards members

NATO intervened in Bosnia. Seeing how Slovenia is right next door to Italy, I don't see why they couldn't intervene in Slovenia as well.

>YPA was said to be able to withstand a Soviet invasion

A Soviet invasion was big news in 1948 with the Tito-Stalin split. If it happened, all men in the federation would be mobilised and they would start a guerilla war against the invader. It could work, but I don't know how it would work in the 90s.

>The YPA would've retaken Slovenia in less than 24 hours
>would've

Well it didn't.

>>564591
Lets face it, Yugoslavia only ever really worked under Tito, he was the only guy who could keep it within any working order. After Tito it descended into a quasi-Greater Serbia

>>564552
And about your point about recruits - no shit they were young, the Yugoslav army conscripted young men. Most of the army was composed of conscripts of around 18 years of age.

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Anyone knows hows Novislav Djajic going?

Like if theres any interview or something?

>>564623
>NATO intervened in Bosnia.

Yes, but that was in 1994, long after the YPA withdrew from Bosnia. So they intervened in Republika Srpska, and Republika Srpska didn't even have MiGs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Deny_Flight

>Well it didn't.

Anons comment was reffering to a scenario where it did.

>>564650
>After Tito it descended into a quasi-Greater Serbia

Unfortunately, yes. But maybe it wasn't beyond repair? And even if it was, there shouldn't have been war and loss of life.

>>564769
>But maybe it wasn't beyond repair?

It was. Milošević was pushing for centralisation, there was growing nationalism in all of the nations in the federation, the debt was growing rapidly and the inflation was horrendous and the communist authoritarian regime was still opressing the people, albeit not as harshly as it used to. Yugoslavia was an experiment that lasted too long.

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>>564158
>>564249
>American complaining about home guard having tanks
>When the National Guard has attack helicopters, APCs, and tanks
>Police departments get MRAPs from the DOD and they are free to purchase any military surplus they can find (with federal money that is given to them for purchasing gear)
Oh I'm laffin.


The picture is actually mobile artillery, but that doesn't really matter.

>>564797
But all of that was a failure of communism. The thing with nationalism is that it is everywhere, but in countries with a good standard of living it just doesn't show itself. Only when people become poor do they remember to hate other people for national reasons (no reasons). Look at Belgium, how is that even a country?

Consider this: The population in Serbia got the war sold as a war for the preservation of Yugoslavia, not for a greater Serbia. They were never told that the YPA never got fully involved in Slovenia, instead they were told "the Slovenes blocked the roads with tree-trunks, so our tanks couldn't advance and we sued for peace".

Why is this relevant? If Kucan tried to get out of Yugoslavia peacefully and Milosevic approved of it, everybody would've known Milosevic wasn't interested in preserving Yugoslavia and nobody would've waged war (on the Serbian side). Now Milosevic stole a lot of money during his rule, but still ended up in the Hague and never had complete control over Serbia (the Zemun Clan did), so what did he really get out of all of this? Why was he allowed to become Communist Party Chairman after living and working in the USA (I think it was from 1975 to 1982)?

Also, why did the guy who was Arkans (i.e. the Serb war criminal #1) mentor and who was involved in all dirty communist business in Yugoslavia, Stane Dolanc, peacefully retire in Slovenia?

I pride myself in understanding history very well, understanding the motives of wars (not ideologies, but practicality), but I just can't figure out the war in Yugoslavia. So cui bono? Who REALLY gained something? The USA, Germany, and some individuals who stole from the country and fled to the west, some organized crime bosses (?), and some very certain politicians (?). But I really just can't connect these people, and worst of all is they are an all sides of the war.

>>565066
>Consider this: The population in Serbia got the war sold as a war for the preservation of Yugoslavia, not for a greater Serbia.

Looking at interviews made during the ten day war, the Serbs were talking about protecting the Serbian minority in Slovenia. They may not have said Greater Serbia but it's what they wanted at that point already.

>Also, why did the guy who was Arkans (i.e. the Serb war criminal #1) mentor and who was involved in all dirty communist business in Yugoslavia, Stane Dolanc, peacefully retire in Slovenia?

Because the forces of the communist continuity (pretty much the whole Slovene left political scene) protect their people.

I pride myself in understanding history very well, understanding the motives of wars (not ideologies, but practicality), but I just can't figure out the war in Yugoslavia. So cui bono? Who REALLY gained something? The USA, Germany, and some individuals who stole from the country and fled to the west, some organized crime bosses (?), and some very certain politicians (?). But I really just can't connect these people, and worst of all is they are an all sides of the war.

I would say everyone except the people. The politicians that used to rule still rule (either directly or through puppets), the West can spread its tentacles across the Balkans, we will never know about all the weapon trades that occured in the 90s,... I'd put Germany before the USA here. Germany supported Slovene and Croatian independence from the start while the USA opposed it. Russia has its allies Serbia and Montenegro. Bosnia is today waiting to implode (a similar situation to the one in the Near East: a lot of foreign fighters came here in the 90s, weapon sales and terrorist training is still going on today,...).

>>563489
Lake Placid FTW!

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>>562533