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How did Christianity lose its spirituality?
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How did Christianity lose its spirituality?

Today we have mega churches complete with rock bands. Street preachers who use Christianity as a means to push their own personal and political agenda. People believe that churches are the temples of God, instead of the human body as they used to believe. People today believe the Bible, a book written over thousands of years by different people using different languages is the "word of God" instead of believing that Jesus is the word of God as many Catholics still do today.

Early Christianity was replete with various philosophical and Gnostic ideas possibly influenced by various other religions including Buddhism, Hinduism. It was well understood by Early Christians that there were numerous "mysteries" which Jesus was the key to unlocking, but today Jesus is treated more as a santa claus figure but the human condition is seen as disgusting, immoral and even evil.
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>>558055

That's not what Jesus looked like.

This is what Jesus looked like.
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I usually don't like simplistic, reductionist explanations for social phenomena, but in this insurance it's true - it all boils down to the Protestant Reformation.

While Catholicism was arguably already more legalistic and life-affirming than its eastern counterparts, it still had a strong mystical tradition and the official dogma was that God was something to be yearned for, not some happy force in the sky that granted all your wishes.
When the Reformation came about however, the floodgates were opened to far more materialist interpretations of the Bible and suddenly spirituality became about finding confirmation for your actions instead of the intense inner struggle it's meant to be, and as a result after several centuries of theological refinement you get a situation where Jesus is supposed to make you "feel good" rather than be used as the guide for subtle spiritual growth that he is. This in turn influenced the rise of secularism and the decline of church authority on moral matters, leaving us in the situation we have today.

It's a shame, really, genuine Christian spirituality looks nothing like the simplistic legal doctrine that is so readily destroyed by fedora tippers, and had it remained it's mystical elements then a lot more fence-sitters today would be inclined to try it out, rather than reject it on conditions that don't even fully reflect the faith.

If anyone is interested in further research for this phenomenon and answers as to how to practice their own spiritual life, I suggest looking into Pastor Anderson, Barnabas Powell, and reading books on Christian Hermiticism.
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satan obviously walks among the believers
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You're just describing Americans.
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>>558055
There are many believers,( including me) that esteem morality and substitute it for spirituality.

All their righteousness (the things they do right) are but filthy rags before God.

Spirituality for any believer is the ongoing relationship that we have with the Father through Jesus Christ, His Son. Our complete faith in God's word it what keeps us rightly related to God in our experience, and we live that out by walking and being lead of the Holy Spirit.
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>>558055
>People today believe the Bible, a book written over thousands of years by different people using different languages is the "word of God"

Yep. This is pretty much American Protestantism in a nutshell.

On topic, this book is an incredible read for anyone who is interested in understanding how the bible has been altered, added, changed, and subtracted over the centuries. A must read, imo.
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>>558055
it is the fate of all mystical teachings, to blossom then wither into a husk. like blood from a living body, it only retains its vitality for so long until it congeals.

organized religion is the corpse of personal spirituality.
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>>558055
>Gnostic ideas
dude, gnosticism was basically occultism and spitting on filthy casuals for not knowing the secret hand shake that lets you bypass the planetary archons as you try to escape the universe and rejoin an illogical concept of God. it's not really something to spout off as being praiseworthy.

it's basically the 2nd century version of /fringe/ -- elitists who think they're better than you because they have tulpas.

all of your other complaints are developments that come from the peasant rabble of the radical reformation, or else innovations coming from American restorationism.

apostolic Christianity and magisterial Protestantism is still fairly decent.
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>>558055
even with spirituality through meditation and contemplation, very few people are religious. see the eastern monks and western buddhist spending their time in hedonism [aversion towards pains, avidity towards pleasures, identification through desires and achievement of desires], while claiming not to be so, with the purpose to enhance their hedonism through the applause of other people in not calling them hedonistic.


most people are on earth to be hedonistic and to remain so, they just do not wish to change, and even they wish to change, they have no idea how, besides having faith in another doctrine different from hedonism, and even they know how, they still are lazy to leave hedonism [since hedonism today has the least explicit, direct pains experimented, but pleasures are very fleeting...].

and since rationalism is trendy and has been since -500, you have the brand ''faith'' when you switch doctrines, especially from the rationalist [who fails to see that any rationalism is pure faith too, and even worse, rationalism serves mundane hedonism], at least until you change and gain certainty, certainty which does not come form a rationalism. so it pisses off any rationalist-hedonists and the hedonists.

but in the end, it is not so problematic that people remain hedonistic, with poor attempt to rationalize it. accept the world as it is remains the first step of any non-hedonistic doctrine.
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>>558055
>Why does Christianity not subscribe to my idiosyncratic, poorly thought out eclecticism?
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>>558055
go practice hesychasm for 16 hours straight and get back to us about a lack of mysticism.
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>>558055
A few things

-it stopped being a small exclusive thing and had to adapt to the mass market so to speak - mysticism tends to be far more elitist.
-People like Aristotle were more influential than Plato
-Muslims and Tzars Cucking Othrodoxy
-The protestant reformation and the corruption of Catholic monasteries
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>>558055
>How did Christianity lose its spirituality?
Not Christianity, Protestantism.

The Reformation's theological war against monasticism, because politics and monasteries with land.

>People today believe the Bible, a book written over thousands of years by different people using different languages is the "word of God" instead of believing that Jesus is the word of God as many Catholics still do today.
Christ founded a Church and not the Bible, but good luck getting people who believe in Sola Scriptura and at the same time remove books off the Bible to understand that.
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>>558266
Thats kind of proof though, that the best example of Christian spirituality is limited to a small practice - certainly not one that forms a core component of lay worship- within an already small group.
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OP you're retarded.

It's the other way around.
Satan quickly corrupted the faith by mixing it with pagan traditions and philosophies, that's the birth of Roman Catholicism.

The Reformation was a return to true early pure Biblical Christianity based on the study of scripture, not mindless rituals or repetitions.

Secondly, gnosticism is a satanic heresy meant to undermine Christianity.

The devil wants you to believe that Jesus was
>"just a man"
>"an enlightened avatar"
>"a great teacher"

They completely ignore the fact that Jesus HIMSELF said that HE was God. If you've seen Him, you've seen the Father.

Now what is pure/true Christianity? Followers of Christ believe that we are pilgrims in enemy territory (Satan's kingdom since the Fall). Our spirit fights against the sinful flesh with all its lusts.

We believe in Jesus Christ as LORD & SAVIOUR, that He died for our sins.
God did all the work - we simply have to believe. Salvation is a gift.

As to your question, Christianity lost its spirituality because Pauline truth was quickly lost and not recovered until the Reformation.
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>>558343
No.
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>>558343
Orthodoxy has literally not changed its theology since it was founded by Christ and is in full accordance with the earliest sources on Christiany
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>>558352
Yes.

>>558360
>founded by Christ
You mean founded by Constantine.

Apostolic succession is unscriptural, and so is child baptism or Mary idolatry. You find none of that in the Bible.
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>>558281
This, people stopped listening to jesus and just use him as a symbol of divinity, wearing a cross won't make you a good person
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>>558360
Catholics view early Christianity as in around 300 AD with the "church fathers".

Protestants go back further, to Paul's journey in Acts.

The early Christians were not Catholic at all.

Catholicism was a later invention by Rome in order to make the religion more attractive to the pagan masses.
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>>558065
gtfo
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>>558369
The Church existed and practiced before Constantine and the theology was the same. The bible and sola scriptura itself is unscriptual and something that itself was a product of apostolic succession
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>>558369

>Yes, no.

Yes.

Your sub-conscious knows that you are on the wrong path, return to the true Church.

>idolatry
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>>558369
And who do you think wrote the Bible? God Himself and revealed to Luther in 1517?

Or a number of different authors over several decades as decided by His Church in accordance to the tradition set up by Christ Jesus?
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>>558281
>>558220

While I will admit that the majority of current churches today are not doing what they ought, the reason for this has been a fault of the degeneration of society through the media.

You have the media showing murder, adultery, strife, all kinds of evil, the the major players in it have always had an occult link or outright satanic undertones.

Part of the degeneration of society led to this degeneration of the churches as pastors tried to reach out or hold on to these people who were so accustomed to exposure to these things that it's what they began to enjoy.

>>558343 also has it right in terms of Satan attempting to corrupt the faith, except now he attempts to also corrupt the mind through violent media, or blowing up fantastic lies in the form of star wars and such.
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>>558379
>to Paul's journey in Acts

compiled and canonized by the Catholic Church.

>lol prods go back earlier

1000 years later desu
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>>558384
There are tons of documentaries and reading material that exposes Roman Catholicism.

You have to be historically illiterate or a retarded papist to still defend Babylon.
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>>558393
He was talking about the Orthodox Church. Where are your exposes on them?
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>>558386
>>558392
>hurr we compiled the Bible!

Manuscripts were widely in circulation before the councils happened.

The councils didn't mean shit, they simply reaffirmed what every believer already knew.

>what is the Textus Receptus
And compiling =/= writing the Bible

Catholics add uninspired books like the Apocrypha. They also use the corrupt Alexandrian manuscripts and Vulgate.
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>>558396
Orthodoxy is basically Catholicism lite.

It doesn't have 1 figure at the top, and it has Biblical priests/elders at every local church (just as Paul set up throughout Asia minor).

But it's still heavily centered around creeds and man's traditions.

Protestants > Orthodoxy > Catholicism

From least corrupt to most corrupt.
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>>558399
>The councils didn't mean shit

you're dumb

I'll bet you're a stupid Nestorian or an Arian or a Gnostic or some other retard heretic

>Manuscripts were widely in circulation before the councils happened.

Yeah, like the Gospel of Thomas or the Gospel of Mary Magdalene or the Gospel of Judas.

Oh wait, those aren't canon. I wonder what that word means.
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>>558392
Protestants base their ideology on Paul's teachings (the last apostle).

Catholics base their ideology on Constantine's conversion, 300 years later.

Catholics like to pretend and role-play that their church was founded by Peter, but there is no historical evidence for that at all.

The Bible never mentions Peter going to Rome, infact it says that Peter remained in Judea/Jerusalem.

Paul was the apostle to teach the gentiles.
Peter was the apostle for the Jews.
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>>558403
Protestantism is hugely corrupt hence why its constantly fragmenting and creating new interpreations and practices willy nilly.

You dont see Orthodox marrying gays
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>>558390
I'm >>558220
I'm not Christian m8, I'm just pointing out how the bible has changed over the centuries by citing an leading academic source, both used by secular academia and theologians alike.
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>>558055
Catholicism took the rationalist trend as opposed to Orthodoxy's mysticism. That said, the monastic life that is the main draw between Buddhism and Christianity was largely shut down by the Reformation in Europe. The Reformation was not only anti-clerical but anti-monastic so Europe's contemplative tradition is more older material and thus harder to get into for the Catholic parts of Europe that retained the monastic tradition despite. There was exceptions though. The Imitation of Christ is the standard go-to book for Catholic ascetic, akin to Orthodoxy's Ladder of Divine Ascent. More recently there is Thomas Merton who is a mid-20th century contemplative and fantastic author on both the western tradition and it in comparison to Eastern religions.
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>>558420
>putting all Protestants into 1 category

I agree that many denominations got it wrong, I never said that Protties are right and Catlicks are wrong.

But the truth/pure form of Christianity is in certain Protestant denominations, not in the Roman church.
>Baptist
>Lutheran
>Dispensational
>Methodist
>Grace believers
>Fundamental
etc

And Protestants recognize that because man is inherently sinful and flawed, we will never find out the perfected truth or the 'ultimate' church that has it all.

What we have is many local churches, all part of the Body of Christ or the universal Church.

We all believe in the fundamental truths of the gospel (Christ's deity, death and Resurrection, etc) and the differences between denominations are mostly minor things.

Protestants are not so zealous

The Papacy was more interested in power & politics than upholding scriptural truth. It was a spiritually dead and corrupt church that goes around calling others heretics and burning them at the stakes for not worshipping the queen of heaven Semiramis/Ishtar aka "Mary".
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>>558413
>Catholics base their ideology on Constantine's conversion

lol

what ideology is that?

>The Bible never mentions

What makes you think that the Bible is the only source of authority? Who decided what books got to go into the Bible?

Who decides what certain verses mean? You?

God certainly. Do you claim to know his will?
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>>558343
Nope, the Reformation was further perversion of any damage done by Catholicism. In the pic here, an example of this
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>>558427
Do you actually have any material against orthodoxy or is all just anti catholic bias?

Which specific protest sect got it "right"
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>>558429
>what ideology is that?

Paganism mixed with Christianity.
That's what Catholicism is.
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>>558427
>Protestants are not so zealous.

Damn straight. They don't even Crusade.

>the differences between denominations are mostly minor things

either you're really brainwashed or that's a fucking lie
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>>558399
This is cringeworthy. There is NEVER a concept of a closed "canon" in the sense of a defined set of books. The canon was fluid and included these so called "apocrypha" for crying out loud. In fact, the Jews at the time of Jesus don't even have a single defined closed canon. It's instead open and fluid.
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>>558427
The pure form of Christianity cannot be found in Protestantism. Show me an actual scholar that says otherwise
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>>558435

>that's what Catholicism is

No it isn't. Where did you get that idea?
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>>558399
>Catholics add uninspired books like the Apocrypha.
Add to what?

The Tanakh's canon was not closed by Jesus' contemporaries, but by later followers of Judaism.

The word apocrypha was introduced by St. Jerome, the same man that gave the world the Bible, with them in it, for crying out loud.

>>558427
>It was a spiritually dead
Then why ban monasticism?

>not worshipping the queen of heaven Semiramis/Ishtar aka "Mary"
"from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed" (Luke 1:48)

Is that the way the Bible taught you to bless Mary, Mr. Sola Scriptura?
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>>558437
>Bible-believing Christians
>anti-gay
>anti-feminist
>anti-communist
>believe in 6000 years
>believe in creation

>Catholics
>pope believes in evolutionism
>pope believes in aliens
>says you don't need to believe in God to go to heaven
>says gays are OK, who am I to judge?
>believes in ecumanicalism and "coexistance"

Protestants are more zealous than Cuckolics senpai
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Here's a question for Sola Scripturists, show me by scripture alone the proof of God's existence.....oh wait, to do do is simply blatant circular reasoning!
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>>558452
So are the Gnostics and heretics
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>>558455
Here's a question for Papists, show me by scripture alone that Peter went to Rome....oh wait you can't!
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>>558452

the Pope never said that, the media just said he did.

>who am I to judge?

JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED
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OP here, I suppose what I'm ultimately asking is how did the figure of Jesus cease being a living active force and instead become a superficial historical figure who said some cool stuff?

People say the reformation is what changed everything, but in Catholicism the message of Jesus was severly overlooked which is what originally led Martin Luther to change things up.
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>>558459
We got actual history for that. Any historian will tell you that Peter indeed been to Rome. How do we know this? Because of records by the Church Fathers such as Irenaeus and the fact that we found the remains of Peter and even a 2nd century shrine dedicated to him, further solidifying this. Now then, answer the question you irrational fallacious Prot
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>Freemasons/Luciferians/Satanists control the world
>mainstream media portrays Catholicism in a good light
>Pope is loved by the seculars and heathens

Gee I wonder why.

If Catholicism was the truth, then why is it friends with occult forces?

The truth is always attacked and suppressed, and guess which Christians are always mocked, ridiculed and ignored?
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>>558463
Because of enlightenment thinkers.
Basically, atheists, humanists and evolutionists.

Jesus stopped being God and became "just a man who said some good stuff" *tips trilby*
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>>558470
Catholics. Protestants are mocked for the right reasons such as their stupidity
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>>558470
>occult forces

Also I'm pretty sure Islam gets more shit these days than Christianity.
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>>558459

>show me by scripture alone

Why only scripture?

We don't have the same tunnel vision you do. That said, it's in there as unimportant as the issue is.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/was-peter-in-rome

>“The Church here in Babylon, united with you by God’s election, sends you her greeting, and so does my son, Mark” (1 Pet. 5:13, Knox). Babylon is a code-word for Rome. It is used that way multiple times in works like the Sibylline Oracles (5:159f), the Apocalypse of Baruch (2:1), and 4 Esdras (3:1).

>inb4 I can't ctrl-f tldr lololol
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>>558468
>Church Fathers
>300 AD
irrelevant, the church fathers were the descendants of heretics who believed in child baptism and pagan traditions

>shrine dedicated to him
irrelevant, and also idolatry

>remains of Peter
Source?
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>>558463
>in Catholicism the message of Jesus was severly overlooked
>OP here

implying
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>>558474
Did you forget the recent trip the Pope made to America?

Protestants are mocked because they are the true Christians.

Satan doesn't want you to believe in a literal 6000 creation.

Satan wants you to believe in billions of years, monkeys, rocks and soup stories.
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>>558474
How are Catholics mocked?

They are shown in a good light by the "world" and the mainstream media.

The media is owned by occultists, so explain that.
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>>558484
Good. By saying that the Church Fathers are all heretics, you basically are doing the same as the Gnostics which fought against them. Genius! It also means that God is so incompetent at protecting his own people that he did nothing for over a thousand years before delivering the truth....such that we don't even know what it says to begin with!
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>>558470
>mainstream media portrays Catholicism in a good light

have you even been paying attention?

The "sex scandal" shit has been going on for a decade now, all while the abuse rate in the clergy is significantly less than that found in the damned public school system!
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>>558463
>how did the figure of Jesus cease being a living active force and instead become a superficial historical figure who said some cool stuff?
The relentless attack on the Deity of Jesus Christ, waged against the Apostolic Churches throughout these two millennia, today it is as intense as it's ever been with all the proddies going Unitarians, Islam, Counter-Missionary Judaism that wants Jews not to believe in the New Testament, and any combination of those.

If Jesus is God there you have your living active force.
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>>558489
see
>>558494

dipshit
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>>558492
No you retard.

God is not incompetent.. True Christians have always existed even during the darkest hours of Papal rule.

>Waldensians
>Paulicians
>Nestorians
>Brethren

Catholics gave them all sorts of labels and names in order to make it appear that they were just cults/heretics, but they were infact Bible-believing Christians.

Waldensians alone predate Catholicism, and they believe in sola scriptura.
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>>558489
The media hates the Catholic Church. They even paint the pope as a hippie cuck. Yes he wants open borders and shit but he isn't as lefty as the media paints him to be. It is also painted by pop fedoras as anti science when the actual truth is more complex. Protestants in contrast are mocked for their stupidity like being anti science, thinking shit like Harry Potter is Satanic, bad theology and logical fallacies.
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>>558494
>Pope goes to America
>friendly walks and talks with Obama
>tons of security
>media talks good about him

Have YOU been paying attention?

Satan loves Catholicism because he made it. It's his counterfeit version of Christianity.
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>>558494
Not even a christkek, but the continued focus is probably a distraction from some political point or something.
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>>558503
>implying the media isn't leftist and liberal
>implying the media isn't pushing for open borders, multiculturalism and SJW tumblrinaism

The Vatican is paving the way for ecumanicalism and the Antichrist.
>All religions are the same guys!
>It doesn't matter if you're Christian, Buddhist or Muslim! We all worship the same God!

The lukewarm and carnal bullshit is coming straight from the Catholic church.

And yeah, I'm aware of some degenerate Protestant churches too.
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irish roman-catholic here
not really practicing any more, just learned some simple morality stuff on sundays for most of my life.

mother is a faith healer who constantly insists that she has no part in the healing process, and that god will will be done regardless and she's just there for moral support. often speaks of people she prayed over who were in coma's and shit who were going to have their organs donered popping up out of there beds only a little bit fucked up the next day. what do you make of that /his/?
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>>558506
This. The Illuminati is big friends with the Vatican.

Catholics don't even realize there is a giant phallic pagan Baal obelisk there.

It's so obvious they are not even hiding it.
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>>558499
The Waldnesians only arose in the Middle Ages. No evidence of them in Early Christianity! Paulicans don't even believe in the Trinity and have Gnostic elements in their beliefs. The Nestorians aren't even Protestant and are more closer to the Oriental Orthodox. A simple wiki search shows the earliest instance of the so called Brethren arose in the Middle Ages.
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>>558499
>they were infact Bible-believing Christians
How were Nestorians believers in sola scriptura, exactly?
Where in the Bible did the Paulicians get their Evil Spirit doctrine from?

>Waldensians alone predate Catholicism
Peter Waldo lived in the 12th century.
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>>558499
>Nestorians were right!!
>the divine and human natures of Christ are separate!!

lol you're trolling

>Paulicians
>literally fuck the Old Testament, the heresy
>basically just another physical world and human body hating Gnostic cult talking about the Demiurge

you really have no clue what you're talking about
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>>558517
>Paulicians don't even believe in the Trinity and have Gnostic elements in their beliefs

t. Catholic sources

Everything that's been said about the Paulicians all come from their enemies.

Yep, totally no agenda or bias at all..

The same shit has been said about Marcion but then it appears that he was just a grace believer and all of the Catholic accusations were unfounded and false.
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God as a manifestation of humanitys collective passion working through devine and incomprehensible means.

how do you view god?
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>>558321
and what? you think the laity in silly eastern religions practice hardcore meditation and shit?

no, they drop a nickel in the bucket, clap their hands, say ramadamadingdong and go on shitting in the streets as per their lay cultural traditions.
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>>558521

so Catholics are incapable of telling the truth?

a strange assumption, almost seems like a prejudice born out of early childhood boogeyman stories.
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>>558511
The Vatican only said that Muslims worship God the Father. It doesn't mean they are right. And let's face it, not being judgemental of non Christians is better than the shit Protestants do such as deceiving Hindu and Buddhists by mistranslating Scriptures, pissing in their places of worship, being corrupt, having degenetate worship and oppressing others when they have the chance. We see a lot of this in South Korea!
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>>558530
Are you implying the Papacy was not interested in power & politics?

It cared more about keeping its power than upholding scriptural truth.

The pope literally gave out orders to kings and princes, it was a secular political institution.
>>
As you can see from this thread, internet heretics perfectly illustrate why the Church occasionally went out of her way to ban their offline predecessors from real life.
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>>558515
>Illuminati

>>>/x/
>>
>>558521
And historians are pretty much clear that they have heterodox elements in their beliefs. Even then this excuse is pathetic since we can say the same for the Gnostics! In fact here's a simple thing, find me a serious scholar who actually believes in the crap you sprouted. Go on, do it! No apologetical or religious publishers allowed.
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The Real History of the evil Roman Catholic Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xta31joiIhU

Detailed Documentary Exposing Catholic Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bVEXZ38Vs8

The Roman Catholic and Islamic Connection
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll0otULYzms

Counterfeit Christianity: Exposing the Satanic System
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXGbpEX6ZUU
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>>558521
And, show me a historical document that attests to a sect of proto-protestants. Pro tip, you can't!
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>>558539
Losing a debate? Shout: TINFOIL!
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>>558369
>child baptism is unscriptural

you know the guy who invented sola scriptura was a child baptiser, right?
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>>558548
You just lost the argument. Good work heretic
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>>558548
catholics BTFO
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>>558533
>It cared more about keeping its power than upholding scriptural truth.

prove it

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

>it was a secular political institution

do you even know what the word secular means?
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>>558552
He also hated Calvin to the core
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>>558554
>Get Rekt
>"n-no i w-won!!"

Christians: 1
Cuckolics: 0

/thread
>>
>>558459
>Here's a question for Papists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Question_dodging
>>
>>558548
This.

http://www.remnantofgod.org/666-char.htm

Catholicism also fits all the descriptions of the Antichrist church. Just a coincidence?
>>
>>558551

>someone tells me I'm schizophrenic? I'll just tell him he's losing!

Prove the Illuminati exists as a political force after 1850.

I'll wait.
>>
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>>558559
I said non religious and apologetic publications. How hard is this?
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>>558558
uh, yeah. they had incompatible sacramental theology and differing views on predestination.
>>
>>558565
If you resort to ad hominems or personal insults, you're basically admitting you've lost.

As Jesus said, get out of her.
Get out of Babylon anon.
Get out of Satan's false religion.
>>
>>558567
Luther's view is almost the same as Calvin's. He's just a pussy to take it to the more heretical extent of Calvin which is basically verging on Gnosticism
>>
Reposting since this is being slid by butthurt catlicks

The Real History of the evil Roman Catholic Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xta31joiIhU

Detailed Documentary Exposing Catholic Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bVEXZ38Vs8

The Roman Catholic and Islamic Connection
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll0otULYzms

Counterfeit Christianity: Exposing the Satanic System
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXGbpEX6ZUU
>>
>>558570
You are the one doing the same in your incoherent bashing on the Catholic Church. You are the one who can't even answer a simple request!
>>
Catholics are deceived by the devil.

They follow the ancient pagan fertility cult of Baal and Semiramis.

/thread
>>
>>558574
This is what being owned looks like. Just parrot the same shit and ignore the requests of the opposing team
>>
>>558582
>get wrecked by over 100 hours of debunking
>"n-no i o-owned you!!"

Denial and cognitive dissonance, stay mad
>>
catholics are heretics and blasphemers

every single pope is burning in hell right now
>>
>>558583
I said no apologetical and religious sources allowed. If Ken Ham can sprout over 9999 hours of shit, it's the same with your fucking vids. Stay mad mother fucker
>>
>>558570

My argument is not predicated on my insult, and so I have committed no fallacy.

Learn to use the words before you speak them.

>As Jesus said, get out of her

That was Jeremiah who said that.

Maybe you're thinking this.

But Jesus rebuked him, saying, "Be quiet and come out of him!" And when the demon had thrown him down in the midst of the people, he came out of him without doing him any harm.

>>558588
>>558588

JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED
>>
>>558588
Is Church Fathers Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura?
>>
>>558499
>True Christians have always existed even during the darkest hours of Papal rule.
Ok, and what archeological evidence do you have for your "true christians"?
>Paulicians
Gnostics. They actually existed around these parts at one point. Nothing to do with protestantism.
>Nestorians
You know those still exist right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_East
>Brethren
Broad label for a variety of groups on all sides of the christian spectrum.
>>
>>558595
Checked wiki on Brethren. The earliest only arose in the middle ages
>>
>>558558
>He also hated Calvin to the core
Who also believed in child baptism.
>>
>>558600
And other stuff the Gnostics also believed in such as, the bread and wine in the Eucharist being mere bread and wine, predestination,opposition to apostolic succession and disbelief in free will. Stay mad puppet
>>
>>558593
>I have learned to yield this respect and honor only to the canonical books of Scripture: of these alone do I most firmly believe that the authors were completely free from error.

-Letter to Jerome (no. 82 ca. 405)
>>
>>558427
>worshipping the queen of heaven Semiramis/Ishtar aka "Mary"
lol, are you being facetious or are there people on /his/ who actually fall for this XIX century tinfoil propaganda?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Babylons
>>
>>558603
>the bread and wine in the Eucharist being mere bread and wine

"And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you."

Is this the one part you decide to not take literally or something?
>>
>>558609
That's not sola scriptura
>>
Daily reminder that protestants are incapable of posting scripture.
>>
>>558623

who cares?
>>
>Catholics are going to burn in hell
>Protestants look down from Heaven and say:
>"I told you so. I warned you but you didn't listen"
>>
>>558603
>the bread and wine in the Eucharist being mere bread and wine
If Calvin’s ideas on Church authority were a surprise to me, his thoughts on the sacraments were shocking. Unlike Evangelicals, who treat the theology of the sacraments as one of the “non-essentials,” Calvin thought they were of the utmost importance. In fact, he taught that a proper understanding of the Eucharist was necessary for salvation. This was the thesis of his very first theological treatise in French (Petit traicté de la Sainte Cène, 1541). Frustrated by Protestant disagreement over the Eucharist, Calvin wrote the text in an attempt to unify the movement around one single doctrine.

Calvin, however, taught that the Eucharist provides “undoubted assurance of eternal life.”5 And while Calvin stopped short of the Catholic, or even the Lutheran, understanding of the Eucharist, he still retained a doctrine of the Real Presence. He taught that the Eucharist provides a “true and substantial partaking of the body and blood of the Lord” and he rejected the notion that communicants receive “the Spirit only, omitting flesh and blood.
>predestination
Well, duh. Taken from Augustine.
>opposition to apostolic succession
What most Evangelicals today don’t realize is that Calvin never endorsed private or lay interpretation of the Bible. While he rejected Rome’s claim to authority, he made striking claims for his own authority. He taught that the “Reformed” pastors were successors to the prophets and apostles, entrusted with the task of authoritative interpretation of the Scriptures. He insisted that laypeople should suspend judgment on difficult matters and “hold unity with the Church.”3

>disbelief in free will.
Well, duh. As i said, ripped from Augustine

Stay mad in being a bastard impostor that even the Early Reformers would condemn for being a fake christian.
>>
>>558643
So did Calvin believe that the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ. You are telling me what I already know. My main argument is that he did not even believe that there is a change in the elements. Luther in contrast did. Augustine's ideas and Calvin's are two differing worlds. Pick up Schaff and see how he notes a distinction between Augustinianism and Calvinism and notes that they are not the same. Augustine also believed in free will and yet paradoxically, predestination as well. And of course, all that part about Apostolic Succession I'll concede my generalization. However, their doctrines and that of the Early Christians are two different things. With regards to Scripture and Tradition, ANS Lane shows how the two are different.
>>
Daily reminder, Saint Peter was never in Rome as Jesus commissioned him apostle to the circumcised.

This invalidates apostolic succession and proves the roman church is fake
>>
>>558664
Why can't you be more like him >>558643
At least I can respect him and his arguments
>>
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>>558643
>>
>>558463
Living conditions getting better over time means more attraction to materialism means less spirituality means religion stops becoming a spiritual lifestyle and becomes a mere tradition.
At this point many "religious" people are really just looking for cold answers to how and why things happen, and believe in God as that big guy up there who will give you whatever you like because you're naturally awesome, and your enemies are assholes who are going to Hell.
>>
>Early Christianity was replete with various philosophical and Gnostic ideas possibly influenced by various other religions including Buddhism, Hinduism.

That's total bullshit.
>>
without the Bible, you would have no clue about who Jesus was, or what Jesus said

unless you're one of those "i believe all words in the Bible attributed to Jesus, but everything else is just uninspired writings" people
>>
>>558737
False. That can be known through Tradition and the regula fidei. Irenaeus shows how the illiterate Babarians without Scripture can actually recognize heresy and avoid them. This is because what Scripture and Tradition says are one and the same thing. Tradition also give is a lens to grasp the written word to begin with and literally in some sense is what formed the Bible.
>>
>>558499
>>Nestorians
These people literally believe that Jesus was not the Son.
>>
>>558504
>>spiritual leader of over one billion goes to America
>>friendly walks and talks with Obama
>>tons of security
>>media talks good about him
Gee, I wonder why.
>>
>>558737
I believe that Jesus Christ is an experience. Jesus said he is "the truth". If you believe there is an objective truth, then that is Jesus.
>>
I'm watching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xta31joiIhU

at the moment, and wow I can't believe how cruel and corrupt the Catholic church was..

How can anyone defend the inquisition, crusades, tortures, murder and crimes of the Papacy during the middle ages?

How is any of those things Christian?
>>
>>558759
They're brainwashed Papists.
>>
>catholic priests wear mithrian fish hat
>ancient babylonians wear the same fish hat

>"WE ARE THE ONE TRUE CHURCH GUIZ"

t. cuckolics
>>
>>558564
>Again, this happened Exactly 42 prophetic months, or 1260 years, or a time, and time, and dividing a time after the Papacy began its powerful reign as a "woman on a beast" that the Pope did finally "...go into captivity" by the military of that day, and later did in fact die because of the actions brought forth by the "sword" or military strength of Napoleon.
So I looked up "prophetic month" and it turns out that it's a made-up term based on a prophecy on Jerusalem not quite panning out.
>>
>>558769
Show me a Church Father who believed in sola Fide
>>
>>558749
those are arians....
>>
>>558811
Show me where Jesus says to torture people.
>>
>>558862
Sure thing, don't believe in him and you burn forever
>>
>How did Christianity lose its spirituality?
Protestantism.
>>
>>559339
This is bait.
>>
>>559361
No. This is true
>>
>>559361
It's not. Protestantism is "materialist" Christianity. Materialism is the opposite of spirituality. If you consider Luther a prophet, you're not christian. If you don't, you're not a protestant. Simple as that.
>>
>>559361
Protestantism dumbed Christianity down to "FOLLOW THE TEXT."

I'm sorry, but pretending to be possessed by the holy spirit by speaking gibberish and talking loudly in a hamfisted way isn't "spirituality"
>>
>>559538
Luther is an apostle

You want men to tell you how to live, rather than God. Reminds me of Israel rejecting God's rule in favour of earthly kings.
>>
>>559361
>this is bait
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asy1zSHZ4tA
>>
>>558664
>Peter was not in Rome
>therefore Apostolic Succession isn't real
Did you forget Antioch? And did you forget the other apostles who founded the other apostolic churches?
>>
>>559574

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Y0EgnLznA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IviOGt68ipk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO-_rX4FG_M

It sure makes some DAMN good rock and roll/soul/gospel/what have you though...

I wouldn't mind going to a service like this, especially the white one, looks like it came out of Huckleberry Finn

God Bless the USA
>>
>>558055


http://thefutureprimaeval.net/why-methodists-dont-go-to-heaven/
>>
>>558065
Ha. Jesus was a Jew. Why would he look like a black american? Troll.
>>
>>558055
I think the mega-church thing is primarily in America. There are many Christian traditions that remains all around the world that have strong components of mysticism and contemplation.
Our humanity being disgusting immoral and evil owes a lot to gnosticism which was strongly dualist. That is, the soul/spirit was holy and the body was evil.
>>
>>559590
He isn't. His doctrines of sola fide and sola scriptura are nowhere to be found in Early Christianity.

At least he isn't as shitty as the Calvinists and at least originally wanted to do the right thing, which ended up to shit!
>>
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>>558427
>Baptist
>>Lutheran
>Dispensational
>Methodist
>Grace believers
>Fundamental

>pure forms of Christianity
>>
>>558055
Who /jesuswasabuddhist/ here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acqgY04hhzM
>>
>>559932
this link actually works buddy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAaW6BYhfNM
>>
>>558055
Because it was never about spirituality as much as it was about resentment.
>>
>>558252

Servant of the Demiurge detected
>>
>>558759
>How can anyone defend the inquisition, crusades, tortures, murder and crimes of the Papacy during the middle ages?
Because the mudslimes deserved it. Shame they didn't wipe them all out.

But really, because it happened in the Middle Ages
>>
>>559621
All Orthodox/Coptic. Next
>>
>>560674

>All Orthodox/Coptic

the schism didn't happen until the 11th century

you insipid moron
>>
>>558759
Who's defending it?
>>
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>>560684
Yeah, so?
Also, the chalcedonian schism happened in 451.
And let's not forget the Church of the East.
>>
>>558403
Who is the Patriarch?
>>
>>558403
Of course they would say their Church is as the apostles/early Christians set it up and protestants are simply making it up as they go along
>>
>>559590
God tells you how to live through His Church set up during the Great Commission.

I swear to God, you Protestants have no concept of subtlety.
>>
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>>558403
>From least corrupt to most corrupt.
>>
>>558321
I consider myself a Buddhist but having lived in east Asia (Taiwan, Japan) I can tell you that the vast majority of common lay Buddhists/Taoists/Shintoists go to a temple on New Years to clap their hands and wish for good luck or maybe if they're "really" religious will go to the temple to pray before a final exam or wedding or something. Not meditating on the Pali canon or sitting in zazen under waterfalls all day. Real mysticism has always been for those willing to put heavy effort into it, while the plebs get the very basics.
>>
>>560860
An office entirely different to the Pope in definition. Most Orthodox probably couldn't even tell you the current Patriarch's name.
>>
>>558827
And Nestorians.
>>
>>558065
t. alberto barbossa
>>
>>558759
>How can anyone defend the cursades
>hurr durr Muslims dindu nuffin they wad gud bois tryna get dey life on track
>>
>>561862
Under an ideal Christian view of history, the crusades were not necessary as heathens could be converted. Under a practical view of history, pagans of history X must be converted to pagans of history Y.
>>
>>558527
>>560988

>and what? you think the laity in silly eastern religions practice hardcore meditation and shit?

I didnt say or imply any of that, I only said that the limited application of heysarchism is proof that Christianity has lost/has only a tiny spiritual/mystical element to it.

How other religions practice literally has no bearing on my point.
>>
>>558055
>2016
>Believing in a god
That's a great meme OP
>>
>>561096
Nestorians believe in Jesus as the Son of God, the problem was that they emphasized the separation of the human and divine natures so much that it was implied that they were distinct. It also didn't help that they denied the title of the Theotokos regarding the Virgin Mary.
>>
It's always been a feature of human religion that when a new anti-establishment cult gains enough followers it becomes a state sanctioned institution and an esoteric cult of the esoteric cult develops made up of a fringe minority who claim to have a teaching that surpasses that given to the ordinary layman. When the establishment gets fed up persecutions ensue, it has happened with Christianity (Gnostics), Islam (Sufis), and Buddhists (Tantra).
>>
>>559645
>It sure makes some DAMN good rock and roll/soul/gospel/what have you though...

Protestant music is the *CRINGIEST* thing there is. Fuck off.
>>
>>558055
I hate to tell you this OP, but many people in the past who were religious figures used their position as a way of creating acquiring greater personal and political power.
>>
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Report all Christposting
>>
>>564801
And nowadays they use atheism, what's your point?
>>
>>564822
>And nowadays they use atheism
Only in your retarded, delusional fantasy world.

"Not of this world" is right, Christians never learn anything about the actual social world, they hide from it.
>>
>>564832
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists
Not to mention all those atheist "media personalities" acting as if "lol christians" is a valid joke.
>>
>>564841
Oooo, spooky, a league exists, therefore Christianity is just "le so oppressed" and has no power in the world

I'm so convinced by this proposition
>>
>>564847
>atheists don't read things they don't like
Shocking.
Just because you were told that masturbating is bad doesn't mean you're oppressed.
>>
>>564875
>all this projecting

I'm not saying I'm oppressed, you moron, I'm saying Christians are wrong about everything when they judge social relations. I'm saying you're just stupid and misunderstand things.

Typical of a Christian though to get into obscure, nonsense psychoanalyzing when he can't make a point though. That's the only tool in your arsenal, abuse it well my friend.
>>
>>564894
>wah stop projecting
>projects anyways

Your entire argument has been nothing more than projection without even proof. Granted, I shouldn't be surprised, but my point stands.
>>
>>564847
>a league exists

existed.

You didn't even read the summary, did you?

They were a critically important organization in the formative years of the Soviet Union under Stalin.

You stupid pleb.
>>
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>>564847
>It propagated atheism and scientific achievements, conducted 'individual work' (a method of sending atheist tutors to meet with individual believers to convince them of atheism, which could be followed up with harassment if they failed to comply).
>Under the slogan, "the Storming of Heaven," the League of Militant Atheists pressed for "resolute action against religious peasants" leading to the mass arrest and exile of many believers, especially village priests. By 1940, "over 100 bishops, tens of thousands of Orthodox clergy, and thousands of monks and lay believers had been killed or had died in Soviet prisons and the Gulag.
>The LMG had reduced the number of religious communities of all faiths from 50,000 in 1930 to 30,000 by 1938 and 8,000 by 1941. The last figure includes, however, 7,000 communities in the annexed western territories (so that only 1,000 actually remained in the rest of the country).
I'd say you'd love to do this, fedorist. The Martyrs will cry tears of joy, the cretins tears of molten lead.

Militant atheists will be removed should they ever try again.
>>
>>558220
It's extremely to figure out that all holy books are heavily altered by watching films with subtitles in a different language, often the words and sentences are completely different in order for more smoother speech in a different language. I cannot believe how fucking stupid the cunts out there are who say their holy books have never been altered after having known this logic for long time. Holy fuck it's common sense, everyone who knows two languages should instantly realise that the Quran and bible are heavily altered.

>>558124
Nice post. I'm an agnostic who is almost fully convinced God exists since he's answered my prayers frighteningly accurately. I've been wondering what is a good Christian church which is closest to the original Christianity. Can you please tell me? I've been considering eastern (Assyrian church) or Greek Orthodox.
>>
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>>558055

>Early Christianity was replete with various philosophical and Gnostic ideas possibly influenced by various other religions including Buddhism, Hinduism.

No. Gnosticism was always viewed as heresy by the church and Buddism and Hinduism are too far away to be considered influences, not to mention there are no early Christian documents that mention Buddism or Hinduism.

>Early Christians that there were numerous "mysteries" which Jesus was the key to unlocking,

Western Christianity has had a more legalistic view towards things like this. The Eastern Church has a more mystical view.

>but today Jesus is treated more as a santa claus figure but the human condition is seen as disgusting, immoral and even evil.

Regardless of "the human condition" having no real definition, Christianity has always seen life as sinful and filled with suffering. It can be disgusting, it very often is immoral, and sometimes it is evil, but that's not what modern Christianity views life as.
>>
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>>558055
>How did Christianity lose its spirituality?

1. Scholasticism
2. Protestantism
3. Christian apologetics
>>
>>558055
Well eastern Christianity has plenty of modern spirituality still. Western Christianity has always had a foot more in the door of scholastic thought rather than mysticism however I would say the anti-monastic movements of the Reformation killed the mysticism element considerably.
>>
>>567072
>No. Gnosticism was always viewed as heresy by the church

This is debatable, at the very least some Gnostic ideas seemed to penetrate the Christian mainstream, It also seems clear that some Christan communities had access to various esoteric Jewish traditions no longer present in the Greek and Latin Christianity.

So while pure Gnosticism was probably always considered heretical, it various ideas associated with Gnosticism were already present in the early church, and Gnosticism's influence can still be felt in some areas
>>
>>567096
>>567090
This is so much bullshit.

The Catholic church was spiritually dead and corrupt to the core. The Papacy was a power-hungry political institution.

The Reformation brought a REVIVAL of spiritual Christianity, all the way from 16th to 18th century.

The King James Bible is praised as one of the best literary works of the English language.

Then there is the recovery of Pauline truth and Dispensationalism.

There is nothing spiritual about the Papacy.
>>
>>567113
>>The Reformation brought a REVIVAL of spiritual Christianity,
well explain this, because the consensus is the opposite of your claim
>>
>>567149
>Ad populum logical fallacy

The consensus in Germany was Nazism.
The consensus in Russia was Communism.

Consensus doesn't mean shit.

The consensus among Bible-believing Christians is that the RCC is the Whore of Babylon.
>>
>>567152
You seem confused friend, Catholics and Orthodox believe in the bible too, In fact their the ones who put it together.
>>
>>567163
They pure more emphasis and faith in traditions, creeds and councils.

The Bible is just an afterthought for them, while Protestants place scripture at the core.
>>
>>567163
Catholicism is a satanic religion.

Orthodoxy is alright.

But the truth is in Baptist/Fundamentalist Christianity.
>>
>>567172
Which a casual overview of Christian history would tell you was never done before them
>>
>>558055
Religion is man seeking God.

Christianity is God seeking man.
It is not any form of spirituality, maybe in orthodoxy you have elements of mysticism, but it is purely the direct revelation of God towards man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGlx11BxF24

This video sums up the whole theology pretty good.
>>
>>567172
Protestants reject the bible as the product of the 'whore of babylon.'
>>
>>567177
You need to watch "A Tale of Two Churches".

It covers Christian history from the time of the apostles all the way to Darby.

It explains why Catholicism is wrong (aswell as its true identity as a crypto-pagan religion) and it also shows the flaws of the many Protestant denominations.

The point is, true Christianity is not some organized organization. The moment you "systematize" beliefs, spirituality dies.

The Bible and the Holy Spirit within you is all you need. The rest will come by itself.
>>
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>philokalia
>>
>>567192
Sounds like a very rigorous historical look at Christianity and not in any way a hit piece by ideologically charged zealots twisting facts to promote their religion
>>
Did you guys know that even pagans that die for Christ get into the Life?

It's called the baptism of blood the strongest one there is.

And yet you yell at each other who is going and who isn't going to heaven, who Jesus loves and who Jesus hates... but most churches would not welcome Jesus in if they didn't know it was Him.

I don't say to an orthodox to drop his religion, because there is nothing to trade with... but neither I say protestant, Catholic go now convert else Jesus will hate you forever...

Don't do that, it's anti-Christian. Jesus love us before we accept him, forgives us before we do anything - it is Life by grace not by the virtue of our gestures.

Live by example and just give the ideas of the right church configuration to others do not insist.
>>
>>567198
>everything my side says is perfect and unbiased
>everything your side says is wrong, biased and false because i say so

Nice argument retard
>>
>>567198
The only ones that twist facts are Catholics.

Just a simple look at Papal history and all its terrible crimes in the Middle Ages speaks volumes.

Remember when Jesus said to torture people with terrible machinations? Yeah, neither did I.
>>
In threads about Christianity on 4chan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge45R9qoW_Y
>>
>>567206
My side is peer reviewed history. Once I read a good piece that fits that criteria and supports that view I might be on your side.

Until then I'll say your pedaling ahistorical nonsense
>>
>>567210
>religion didn't exist until Christ

Liberals.
>>
>>567209
Yeah the Catholics are full of hypocrisy and cling to nonfalsifablity as justification of their faith. Doesn't make you right though
>>
>>567215
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xta31joiIhU
>>
>>567223
I had to watch about fifty seconds of that to dismiss it as ahistorical nonsense.

The catholic church was not simply created when Constantine came around, its institutions such as bishops were in place by the 2nd century, as was the veneration of saints. The papacy itself you can argue about as Catholics and Orthodox do, but in general the church as an institution predates the legalization of Christianity by hundreds of years
>>
>>567242
It's a fact that Catholicism is crypto-paganism.

You can deny it all you want, it doesn't change history.
>>
>>567258
If that is the case than Christianity was crypto pagan from the 2nd generation onward, and its these same crypto pagans who wrote the bible.

I'll happily admit they absorbed ideas from the Greeks and Romans, sure, but it happened almost from the beginning
>>
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>>567113
>The Reformation brought a REVIVAL of spiritual Christianity, all the way from 16th to 18th century.
Please, please do explain the Protestant Anti-Monasticism social war then. And then tell me

>KJV

Fantastic poetic translations are not spirituality.
>>
>>567298
This bears repeating: Everything fantastically beautiful in the KJV is just plagiarized from the Tyndale bible.
>>
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every self-proclaimed christian girl is like any other girl : a whore in disguise.
>>
>>567321
>that photoshop
>that highlighting and contouring
srsly you have no idea what that 'girl' really looks like
>>
>>558124
Quality post right here. Thanks, brother.
>>
>>558124
Yes. I like it.
Thread replies: 224
Thread images: 25
Thread DB ID: 431714



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