Jesus fucking christ you god damn turdsniffing shitfuck. Have you no sense of humor at all or is it one of those uptight twatfart senses of humor where if it isn't funny to you in particular you automatically disregard it?
I attached the principal reason at the end as an afterthought precisely because it isn't an afterthought it's the main motivator you fucking twat, that's the joke, it was communism.
Communists don't like religion, they're communists, they're shooting a religious symbol, go figure right?
>a chaotic shithole full of clueless retards who couldn't organize a proper army >went out of their way to burn down churches and rape nuns >in the end they started killing each other over who believed in which brand of socialism >Franco just had to sit around and laugh his ass off about the entire shithouse collapsing
Quite possibly the biggest clownshow in human history aside from revolutionary France (and the French at least knew how to win a war or two)
>>556699 The Franco was able to mobilize a relatively cohesive army whilst the Republicans were having a mini-civil war of their own between I Hate Capitalists and I Really Hate Capitalists should tell you that perhaps Spain wouldn't be doing very well if the Republicans won.
>>556810 Sopherl! Sopherl! Sterbe nicht! Bleib' am Leben für unsere Kinder! Es ist gar nichts... es ist gar nichts..." ("Sophie! Sophie! Don't die! Live for our children! It is nothing. It is nothing. It is nothing...") -Archduke Franz Ferdinand Tragic from start to finish
>>556896 >Because if commies had had their way, Spain would probably be poorer than Romania. that's speculative, for all you know they would have collapsed in the 60's and a technocratic economic wunderland would have sprung up.
We don't know what would have happened but we do know that Franco was a shitty leader, economist and head of state.
>>556905 >that's speculative, No it's not, only idiots think that a system which fails catastrophically time and time again could work.
> for all you know they would have collapsed in the 60's and a technocratic economic wunderland would have sprung up. Oh yeah, and I'm sure money-trees could've sprouted up, and the clouds would've become cotton candy.
>We don't know what would have happened We can take an intelligent guess.
>we do know that Franco was a shitty leader, economist and head of state. Why? He was a dictator, but rather benign for a dictator. His rule was far better than any rule under a communist government during the 20th century. He was way better than Castro, Stalin, Mao and all those other idiots.
>>556896 So because Communism sucks Franco was a good leader? Are you drunk, that doesn't follow. Just because you have two choices doesn't mean one has to be good, they can both be shit. Case in point, they were.
>>556918 >No it's not >Alternate history is not speculation and furthermore sir you're a buffoon if you question me
>Oh yeah, and I'm sure money-trees could've sprouted up, and the clouds would've become cotton candy.
All things being equal.
>We can take a fun journey through the lands of make believe and storytelling
>Why? Because the Spanish economy was never "strong" under him, Spain was never a power, Spain was never prosperous, it was only prosperous, as you've gone to great lengths to reiterate, in comparison with far more incompetent regimes.
That doesn't make him good, that makes him less bad or more accurately a different flavor of incompetence.
>>556941 >HAHAHA, ok. If I jump out of the window, I will fall and die. That is not speculation.
If a country government which adheres to marxism in one shape or another, it will crash and die. That is not speculation either.
>Because the Spanish economy was never "strong" under him https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_miracle
>it was only prosperous, as you've gone to great lengths to reiterate, in comparison with far more incompetent regimes. You left out a detail : that all those "far more incompetent regimes" were COMMUNIST. Of the same kind as the one defeated by Franco.
>That doesn't make him good, that makes him less bad or more accurately a different flavor of incompetence. Of course it makes him good.
You're a just an assravaged little commie who probably browses /r/berniesanders. If Franco had a red star on his cap you would wear tshirts with his face on it. You are so fucking hypocritical it makes me want to throw up.
>>556929 >Yes, because he fought (and won) against communism. For this act alone he should be viewed positively. That doesn't make any sense. People have already stated how dysfunctional the Republicans were, beating them was no real accomplishment unless you're a biased twat that thinks everyone that casually stepped on a misplaced soviet flag is some kind of hero.
>As for his actual rule, it was not that bad. "it was not that bad" is the absolute best thing you can say about his time in office, He was an incompetent idiot and not a good ruler.
How is it that all commie groups that are considered "successful" were the ones that got curb stomped in the beginning (Sankara, Lumumba, revolutionary Spain) and those that were given enough time to develop ended up being absolute shit (entire Eastern Bloc, North Korea, Zimbabwe)?
>>556961 >That doesn't make any sense. Doesn't make sense to YOU. You probably have a defective brain.
>He was an incompetent idiot and not a good ruler. But compared to the republicans, or commie morons such as Castro, Allende, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Ceausescu, Tito and all those other faggots, he was a fucking genius.
>>556976 Tito was a humongous faggot. Yugoslavia is a typical example of an okay country run to the ground by a communist idiot.
>>556978 >That's not what you're doing though. Are you claiming that if I jump out of the window, there is a possibility that I will fly?
>the "Spanish miracle" was insignificant and largely accomplished nothing. I can't argue against such a strong argument. You obviously have a PhD in the history of the spanish economy. I can safely disregard the opinions of experts because you are the most expert of them all!
>The sad part is you're both convinced I'm leftist and that you don't have the foggiest idea how that doesn't matter at all. It doesn't matter, but you're a leftist, it's pretty obvious from your shilling.
>You're completely wrong about that. Actually you're right, even Pol Pot's Cambodia was better run than the Republic. I can't imagine the utter carnage Spain would have suffered had the Republic won.
>No it doesn't it makes him not that other kind of shit, and that's all. I guess it's a question of perspective. For me, a leader who prevents his country from descending into horrible communist carnage and subsequently goes on to make Spain almost as rich as its northern neighbors is pretty good.
>Yeah, ok kid. >kid Let's not kid ourselves, you're probably underage.
>>556988 believe it or not I think he's sincere, I've dealt with people that autistic and stupid before. It's not good enough that you're calling the thing he hates shit, you have to also exalt the thing he doesn't hate or else you're part of the thing you're calling shit. You also have to be sure to praise it in just the right way. You didn't do it the way he liked so that triggered his autism.
>>557005 >Are you claiming that if I jump out of the window, there is a possibility that I will fly? Yes that's exactly what I'm claiming, are you daft boy?
>I can't argue against such a strong argument. There are lots of "miracles" in the world of economics, Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, Poland, France, Italy, Argentina, it doesn't matter, it doesn't mean you're some kind of wunderkid that knows his shit. It's when you keep it going and sustain it and build off it and diversify and grow that you're worth a damn. He didn't, he stagnated and receded.
>It doesn't matter, but you're a leftist, it's pretty obvious from your shilling.
Oh well guess you have me pegged. Aw schucks.
>even Pol Pot's Cambodia was better run than the Republic.
That's completely...That has nothing to do at all with the context of what you're replying to.
>I guess it's a question of perspective. For me, a leader who prevents his country from descending into horrible communist carnage You believe he had the hindsight that we do? >and subsequently goes on to make Spain almost as rich as its northern neighbors is pretty good.
Spain has never been as rich as post-war France, Great Britain and Germany. It's dwarfed by all three even today.
>>557009 I know he's sincere, I never thought he was trolling me but it's still weird that people this biased and stupid exist.
>>557025 He's been doing that this entire time, his only argument is "not as bad as these abject failures therefore good also your'e a commie because reasons you asshole"
>>556668 >The priest of Cienpozuelos was thrown into a corral with fighting bulls where he was gored into unconsciousness. Afterwards one of his ears was cut off to imitate the feat of a matador after a successful bullfight.
>In Ciudad Real, a priest was castrated and his sexual organs stuffed in his mouth.
but as usual, no matter how right you are - once you get violence all you want will be lost. and just like the japanese cartoons, once you become the monster you were trying to defeat you'll be as bad as he is.
>>557034 I literally posted a wiki article titled "the spanish miracle" to which he responded with "no".
>>557046 >Yes that's exactly what I'm claiming I wasn't sure I understood. I was willing to give you a chance, but you've just admitted to being a humongous retard. I guess the only thing I have to say is, you go for it and try jumping out of a window.
>There are lots of "miracles" in the world of economics, Correct.
>Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, Poland, France, Italy, Argentina, None of those had a miracle save for France.
Better examples would be Chile, Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, Germany (well, West Germany), etc. I mean Brazil?? Really?
>He didn't, he stagnated and receded. The spanish economy grew continuously under Franco...
>Oh well guess you have me pegged. Kind of like your girlfriend during sex, amirite?
>That's completely...That has nothing to do at all with the context of what you're replying to. I didn't change the subject, I drew a comparison. Did I overwhelm your brain?
>You believe he had the hindsight that we do? Oh no, I'm sure he decided to quit his post in Morrocco and lead a rebel army for shits and giggles.
>Spain has never been as rich as post-war France, The key word being "almost". Had you read the article on the spanish miracle instead of saying "NO THATS NOT TRUE MY EYES, THEYRE BURNING", you would have read this interesting statistic:
>While Spain remained less economically developed relative to most of western Europe in the 1970s, in the "miracle's" heyday, 1974, Spanish per capita income had reached 79% of the European Economic Community The average spaniard was worth 80% of the average frenchman. What would the corresponding statistic be had the Republic won? Probably closer to 10%
>>556567 The Far Left scum fell to the glory of Fascism. Of course Spain being the socially liberal dump that it is today (along with the rest of Western Europe) is treating the Nationalists like demons and even tearing down and vandalizing Nationalist monuments.
>>557053 This guy has it right. The Republic was a weak state that got Soviet support for a good reason but it was a shit house divided and did poorly due to its many internal problems
>>557070 This attribution is ridiculous and obviously propaganda as almost all Matadors were pro-Fascist and bullfighting was heavily discouraged in the Republic because they were short on meat
Though much of the rage wasn't necessarily against belief so much as the backward role of the organized priesthood who ruthlessly exploited and controlled large swathes of the populace and enforced feudal tithing laws
>>556745 >suicides: negligible every single time, every single dictatorship
just like that shitty comparison is lacking transparency, faking/hiding data was a common practice in every single dictatorship ever created.
e.g.: just like "nuestros hermanos" we in portugal had a dictator and when people where "invited" by the secret police they often died of "natural causes" according to their death certificate which was pretty amusing since we're talking about people between 18~75 years old most of them very healthy until they've been taken to be "inquired about subversive activities"
>>557116 i have no idea what's the deal between bullfighting and everything else i wrote. bullfighting all over the iberian peninsula was always a show for the amusement of the elites where the plebs could or couldn't be invited to watch - so of course republicans were against it (they still are but nowadays it's a claim by the left wing).
my point was no matter how right you think you are; if you open pandora box and start killing a few people you're on the path of the tyrant and it's just a matter of time until the blood of both sides flows throught the streets...
>>557105 >but you've just admitted to being a humongous retard Yeah, you sure do got it.
>None of those had a miracle save for France. That's wrong, you can google it. There's literally a wiki page with a list of them.
>Better examples would be Chile, Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, Germany (well, West Germany), etc. >look at me everyone, I went to wikipedia and still got it wrong Neat > I mean Brazil?? Really? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_Miracle
>The spanish economy grew continuously under Franco
Economic stagnation isn't a lack of growth it's not enough growth, usually less than 2–3%.
>I didn't change the subject, I drew a comparison. Did I overwhelm your brain? You are so asspained it's ridiculous. Your comparison has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
>Oh no, I'm sure he decided to quit his post in Morrocco and lead a rebel army for shits and giggles. Or because he had political clout, the communists were obviously unpopular with the business interests and he had a shot at power. >79% >almost >over 20% below 1970's levels >almost Your definitions are shit.
>What would the corresponding statistic be had the Republic won?
I have no idea, I'm not the one writing alternate history fics. Franco was still shit though.
>>557135 >my point was no matter how right you think you are; if you open pandora box and start killing a few people you're on the path of the tyrant and it's just a matter of time until the blood of both sides flows throught the streets
even when you don't do that it's just a matter of time until the blood of both sides flows through the streets.
The iron fist to suppress the enemy of the revolution makes logical sense. So too does Franco using the iron fist against us. On the moral ground I can't begrudge him doing what was effective.
But I will complain because he did it against progress to destroy change and the advancement of man because muh Church and traditions. So fuck him.
The real question on the use of violence is when to end its use.
Also even on moral grounds you're confusing the question. Violence is a logical, rational act. More importantly, the violence of the oppressed against oppressor is not equal to that of the oppressor attempting to retain their power. One is more justified than the other.
Oh, and the bullfighting argument is because if the priests are going >"waaaah they fed us to bulls" And there's no bulls around, then they're full of bullshit
This thread is autism, everyone knows that the "Republican" could never create a coherent government in Spain with its patchwork of radical left wing ideologies and that Franco was a dictator that treated dissidents harshly
>>557159 if you have a rightful claim sooner or later you will have the majority of the people on your side and at that point it will take too much to preserve the status quo for the rulling elite, so instead of gambling everything and possible end up defeated and dead they prefer to give up power and operate behind the shadows
>pic related: it applies to all velvet revolutions
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