Post 1/2 (OP was too long to fit)
Hi /his/, I wanted to share my own personal beliefs on why we exist and the nature of the universe. I'm not sure if anyone has ever thought along these lines before, but I'd be glad to hear some opinions even if you think what I believe is naive or overly optimistic.
I am a spiritual person, but I don't believe in or follow any religion. My understanding of my own existence is a mixture of spirituality and pure logic.
Chaos theory proves that absolutely nothing about our Universe is random, this is further supported by the fact that it's impossible to program a random number generator that is TRULY random. Randomness is an impossibility in our Universe, which inherently implies that absolutely everything happens for a reason (and I mean EVERYTHING). This means that each individual life happens for a reason, which is another way of saying that every life has a PURPOSE. I believe that purpose is that WE ARE HERE TO LEARN, and that we take those lessons with us after we die.
I believe growing out of the fear of death is a critical stage in the evolutionary development of sentient intelligent life in this universe. So WHY should we not fear death? Simple, the series of logical steps I just took you through are what brought me to the belief that the following two statements are OBJECTIVELY TRUE:
1. Death is not the end
2. We take our memories with us (wherever it is we go).
If you understand the implications of Chaos Theory, then you may begin to understand why I think those statements are as objectively true as this simple mathematical equation: 2 + 2 = 4.
Here's where my own personal spiritual beliefs come in:
I believe that when we die we return to a higher level of conciousness, in the 4th and 5th dimensions. I also believe that our existence in this lower dimension is something that our higher dimensional selves have volunteered for, as there are lessons and knowledge that can only be acquired while living in this lowered state of conciousness. I believe the extremes of Joy, Pleasure, Glory, Anguish, Pain, and Suffering can only be experience in this lowered state of conciousness. It is that extreme balance of potentialities that makes existence in this level of conciousness the most bountiful source of knowledge and wisdom.
Finally, I believe that it is extremely critical that we understand that it is our duty to do as much as we can to leave this world a better place than when we entered it. There is most likely great benefit for attempting to do so, and even greater benefits for actually succeeding. There may not be consequences for failing, but I'm sure that there are significant consequences for refusing to try.
>This means that each individual life happens for a reason, which is another way of saying that every life has a PURPOSE.
no it doesn't
I'm here for a reason, yes - my parents had sex in just the right position at just the right time for myself to be the one that was born, it could have been any other of the sperm cells but I was the first one in because of this timing, position or any other events that took place
does this mean that I have a purpose? no
> I'm here for a reason, yes - my parents had sex in just the right position at just the right time for myself
So you're essentially saying I'm making something out of nothing, basically accusing me of thinking too deeply about the subject.
I'd argue that the depth at which you're looking into the subject no depth at all, on the contrary you're still hovering over the surface too afraid to jump in.
To me your belief is not unique at all, it is in fact what most humans who have not sheltered themselves in the comforts of religion will say.
The current paradigm of atheism bothers me because most atheists say they are only against religion, but in my experience with most of them are against believing in anything at all. I find that quite sad.
lol @ all the retards thinking they know shit itt
Op while I wouldn't characterize my views in exactly the way you have, what with chaos theory and all, you agree with pretty much Al the other great ancient sages, mystics, and philosophers have preached throughout history. Not to mention the testimonies of thousands of NDEs
nice post, funny how you talk about depth while typing out this meaningless shite that adds nothing to the original subject you proposed
>To me your belief is not unique at all
what? my 'belief' has to be unique to be correct?
>it is in fact what most humans who have not sheltered themselves in the comforts of religion will say.
>The current paradigm of atheism bothers me
>I find that quite sad.
I think you mistake "thinking deeply" for "thinking imaginatively."
You jump from one inference to another with no evidence. Further more, you call it pure logic, when clearly you are already engaged in logical fallacies (you are just not smart enough to see it because your emotions are getting the better of you).
Lastly, you are more religious than you think, and no doubt you have read plenty of religious subjects that have caused you to think the way you do, you are simply being disingenuous and pretending like you haven't.
I suspect you are very young, early 20s at most.
God is the essence of ambiguity that lies at the core of all meaning. Your words cannot contain it, as it is too vast to be constrained to a mere definition.
Your brain is a super computer. Start trying to link the idea of your brain's processing faculties and functions to programming terminology.
You don't know the fuck you're talking about and the whole smug atheist man bout to lay down some knowledge on this superstitious pleb :^) is getting old. Oh and by the way, "my purpose ends at my parents having sex" is completely laughable and baseless. The cause of something is not its telos you fucking illiterate.
It's like saying a car exists to move shit around and the next thing you know your faggot as waddles in to tell us, NO, because it was made in a factory. Lmao you're incoherent
ouch, very emotional response filled with assumptions about who I am and what I do and where I come from, etc. that again has nothing to do with what the original subject you proposed is
>ur probly an atheist mang
>"my purpose ends at my parents having sex"
who are quoting?
I said that the REASON I'm here is because of that, I denied having a purpose at all
is english not your first language?
>It's like saying a car...
no it isn't
false equivalencies are evidence of the start of the decline in validity of an argument I like to think
I'm not op. Second, your parents giving birth to you doesn't disprove or prove shit. provide evidence you don't have a purpose right now. "Denying having a purpose" isn't an argument you dip
>what? my 'belief' has to be unique to be correct?
No, what I was implying is that your are the kind of atheist that would be found in an idiocracy-type future.
You think you're brave for living life supposedly KNOWING that it's pointless. How do you "know" it's pointless any more than the religious "know" in the existence of a "God". Religion and spiritual ideologies are extremely dangerous, but your kind has out right rejected spiritual thought all together. You've thrown the baby out with the bath water.
It takes bravery to reject religion, and stupidity to reject spirituality.
>provide evidence you don't have a purpose right now. "Denying having a purpose" isn't an argument you dip
but you've provided no evidence that I do
I stated the flaws in the reasoning that because nothing is random, therefore you have a purpose because you are unique and special or what the fuck ever here>>556147
>You think you're brave for living life supposedly KNOWING that it's pointless. How do you "know" it's pointless any more than the religious "know" in the existence of a "God". Religion and spiritual ideologies are extremely dangerous, but your kind has out right rejected spiritual thought all together. You've thrown the baby out with the bath water.
how do you know whether I think or do any of this?
you're making wild assumptions nigga
>Near-death experiences which echo the op almost word-for-word.
people who have near-death experiences all unanimously claim now that they have a purpose in life?
wouldn't this come from the unexpected continuance of their life and a desire to do more things with their limited time?
or did are they all out there right now singing to the skies about how everyone has an individual path predestined for them that they live out - a purpose
> I stated the flaws in the reasoning that because nothing is random, therefore you have a purpose because you are unique and special or what the fuck ever here
When did I ever say that we each have a unique and special purpose. I said the total opposite, that we are all here for two simple purposes... to gain wisdom and knowledge that can only be obtained in this lowered level of conciousness, and do our best to leave the world a better place.
are they all*
>When did I ever say that we each have a unique and special purpose. I said the total opposite, that we are all here for two simple purposes...
apologies for not re-reading then
I still stick by my belief that the idea that we have any purpose at all is wrong though, regardless of the enumeration or variety of the purposes
Baseless speculation. You obviously haven't read any testimonies. Stop projecting something so base as relief one is alive onto the profound transformative effects of an NDE: which include changes in demeanor, the total erasure of negative character traits, and the formation of a new spiritual outlook in those who were not previously religious
Are you saying that God isn't a man with a beard or some kind powerful of entity, rather God is an objective concept that can never be fully understood by any one individual conciousness?
Read the testimonies. I'm on my phone I don't have time to type all this shit up. Just google it. No doubt some of these guys are charlatans but a story of an NDE suspiciously similar to modern accounts survives in one of Plato's dialogues
God is the transcendent. the unseen, the unknowable, the unconditioned behind the conditioned. at some point we have to stop talking about what God is and resign ourselves to only talking about what he is not
you talking about all the
>bruh i almost died i saw this bright light and shit was calm and shit like god and jesus was there and shit was cash man
because this is generally what people claim and there are various scientific theories for and against it
Nice dude, keep denigrating the opposing side without giving it a chance and then cry like a faggot when we assume your closet is stocked with a certain kind of headwear popular in the early 20th century
Nobody is here to prove anything to you, we're here to have an open-minded conversation about the possibility that life ISN'T pointless which so many atheists seem to be adamant about.
You're not interested in this spiritual conversation, you want a conversation about militant-atheism. Which is a complete rejection of spirituality all together.
Atheists like you are so wary of religion and spiritual ideology that is has led to you to believe that spiritual conversations are inherently dangerous and should be shut down in the absence of complete concrete evidence of every detail of the conversation.
Spiritual conversations are not inherently dangerous, so there is no way you can justify a continuous never-ending brigade of "nuh-uh" comments.
> at some point we have to stop talking about what God is and resign ourselves to only talking about what he is not
That makes sense to me, although personally I wish you wouldn't use the word "God" as I wholly believe it has no place in non-religious spiritual conversations. I consider it a religious word, of which I want no part of.
You never REALLY told me what you think of my OP?
Yeah you're right God has a lot of ugly baggage. I prefer the Absolute, the One, whatever
I was the guy who said your op agrees with what mystics and sages and shit have said throughout history. We're pretty much in agreement. Literally the only thing stopping me from believing this stuff 110% and not just 95% like I do now is cause I'm scared it's too beautiful and good to be true. If it really is the case, how profoundly, profoundly lucky we are that not only is there something instead of nothing, but that we are eternal parts of something so loving and sublime. Sometimes I swoon just thinking about it. That reality, in its bones, is Good.
I don't know where everything came from and I don't really speculate about it because I think quantum physicists are better suited for that sort of thing than I am.
I am curious about how life came into existence, but I believe that all living things are little more than biological robots. The individual components of our cells are not living and they function like tiny machines powered by chemical reactions. I believe that both free will and consciousness are illusions created by the complex processes of our brains. I believe that when you die your existence is simply snuffed out.
Really, I consider life a tragedy, since it's destined to end at some point. It pains me that there's so many people who live short and miserable existences, since it's the only one that they'll ever get. I also bothers me that the universe is so large and I will die before I can know everything about it.
>I believe that both free will and consciousness are illusions created by the complex processes of our brains.
It's funny my work in economics has given me quite a unique perspective on the topic of free will. I'm actually an independent economist (I don't believe Keynesians or Austrians are on the right track, although I will say Keynesians are just completely hopeless while Austrians are beginning to understand the truth).
Adam Smith's invisible hand is real, it is a lorenz-attractor (again, Chaos Theory). Free will is actually achieved when our desires begin to align with the the desires of the universe itself. It is achieved when we realise that the Universe WANTS us to grow and to prosper, and thus we realise that all we must do to achieve growth and prosperity is to relinquish the illusion of control.
The illusion of control over things outside our own bodies is what holds humanity back. This is why we build giant governments which we put in power in attempt to control every aspect of the societies we live in.
We have a lack of faith in our fellow man, and we believe that the ill behaviour of men is a result of a lack of control in society. In reality that ill behaviour is a direct consequence of the fact that our fear of having no control over our fellow man (that we do not trust) has inadvertently led us to take actions which actually breed the very ill behaviour which we were attempting to control.
If you begin with trust you will breed honesty, and if you begin with distrust you will breed dishonesty.
Our reality is a reflection of what we hold in our minds. For example, people who fear guns create environments which are vulnerable to the very thing they fear (think school shootings where teachers are not allowed to have a concealed carry).
Free will is an evolutionary step first acquired by individuals who have come to an understanding of these concepts.
> I believe that when you die your existence is simply snuffed out.
>Really, I consider life a tragedy, since it's destined to end at some point. It pains me that there's so many people who live short and miserable existences, since it's the only one that they'll ever get. I also bothers me that the universe is so large and I will die before I can know everything about it.
But ask yourself, does this really make logical sense? Does it make sense that ALL OF THIS serves no purpose? To me such an idea is ridiculous.
I'm not saying it's not a possibility (pointlessness), rather I'm saying that it would be very very silly if that were true.
Very Evola-ish. As the Tao says, when we start talking about sages, we imply the unenlightened. When we talk of the noble person, we imply the base. There's an old Taoist story that echoes literally exactly what you said. Also, I'm reminded of Kierkegaard's notion of "infinite resignation", submitting to the universe and having faith in its highest principles will you through. And also of the Bhagavad Gita's notions of surrender and acting without attachment. This stuff is everywhere and reflects a very profound truth
That's funny that I've come to the same conclusions as people before me, people I've never heard of. You might find it interesting that I actually have next to no understanding of philosophy outside of the conclusions I have come to myself.
It was my understanding of the work of another independent economist by the name of Martin Armstrong which ignited several years of intense thought and deliberation within my own ahead.
His application of Chaos Theory to the field of economics took the veil of chaos off my perception of the world. Perhaps there is some truth to the idea that economics encompasses everything.
Like many great men before him, Mr. Armstrong was persecuted by the establishment for his discoveries. His work completely eradicates the credibility of governments around the world, and reveals the simple the truth about the nature of humanities ills:
Our perceived need to control each other will be our downfall. We are a species enslaved by our own fear of each other, enslaved by our own lack of faith in each other. Fear truly is the mind killer.
I'm honestly pretty shocked you're arriving at the same conclusions fucking German philosophers, Taoists, mystics of all stripes, etc. have arrived.... Through fucking economics of all fields. Every one of them preaches a shedding of our social and conditioned ego in favor of cultivating our essential being, which is above having it's reactions to the world be determined by fear and paranoia because it does not identify with the external and the impermenant.
That's crazy man
You seem to know a lot about Philosophy, can I ask what it is you do for a living?
The major reason economics lead me to philosophical thought is the fact that Armstrong's work taught me that control is an illusion.
Armstrong has discovered mathematical cycles in the global economy (which seems obvious after you realise Cycles are inherent to the make-up of the Universe itself).
Politicians and their lackey economists have been trying to eliminate the business cycle since the dawn of civilization. The truth is that the reason economic cycles exists is for the same reason light exist as both a particle and a wave. As individuals we represent the particle aspect, but as collectives (humanity, individual countries, cities, etc.) we move in a waveform.
The waveform can not be eliminated any more than the laws physics can be broken. What politicians actually do is introduce volatility into the global economy by trying to control it.
In the next 5 years you will see a global economic crisis take place on the level of the Great Depression, as what happened in 2008 was never dealt with and was in fact only made worse. 2008 was a warning tremor.
From one of Armstrong's recent blog posts:
>We’re dealing with a very profound event, religion aside. Such events of political-economic trend resets come around every 309.6 years. The last one was the global revolution against monarchy which began in the United States.
Existence is some kinda loli breakfast machine, clearly
Nothing to do with philosophy., actually. Just a student. I study this stuff in my free time cause I love it.
Yup, as you said. This guy knows his stuff, especially if he's smart enough to see the cosmic principle behind economic rises and falls. Everything, on the level of the material universe, anyways, is polarity. Male female. Positive negative. Active passive. Expansion and contraction. It's all the same thing expressed on near infinite levels
>Randomness is an impossibility in our Universe, which inherently implies that absolutely everything happens for a reason (and I mean EVERYTHING). This means that each individual life happens for a reason, which is another way of saying that every life has a PURPOSE.
You are falling into a linguistic and psychological trap.
Just because there is a an explanation or law behind natural events does not mean the events happen for a reason, as in the justification an intelligent being would use for its actions.
Secondly, it's very typical for humans to see intelligence (purpose, reason) behind events because we evolved to be hyper aware of other intelligent agents. This is one of the psychological bases of belief in gods, ghosts, spirits, demons, etc.
The potentiality for life embedded in physical laws, as well as the very intelligibility of those laws themselves, implies a source intelligence. Does not prove. but implies. And certainly doesn't disprove
>nothing in our universe is random
Its literally all random. Or better stated, its all probabilistic. The presense of particles is random. The state of ecosystems is random, albeit emergent. I believe human will exists similarly; our choices rely on a certain amount of chance to happen.
This is really a sort of anthropomorphic feedback loop. The fact that we make sense of the universe through intelligence makes it seem as if the universe itself is intelligent, whereas it is simply being presented to us in an intelligent model.
It's not as simple as you suggest it is.
First of all: What is wisdom?
What is a better place?
A better place for whom?
Your belief assumes a universal standard, truth and sentience to determine and judge all of this.
You believe in God, mate.
Ok, so clearly you believe in only one possibly type of consciousness, which is only variable in its degrees of development, probably with animals lower in degree and "higher dimensional beings" having a higher degree of consciousness. This then implies that there is a top consciousness somewhere which is the pinnacle of being.
>Chaos theory proves that absolutely nothing about our Universe is random
How exactly did you come to that conclusion?
>this is further supported by the fact that it's impossible to program a random number generator that is TRULY random
Our inability to do something right now is no proof that it is impossible. We cannot create stable fusion, that does not mean it cannot exist.
Makes no sense if an absolute truth exists. An intelligence in the line of infinity would have necessarily comprehended absolute truth, making further intelligence useless, moot and an unintelligent innovation.
If you have an absolute point, even a single one, then infinity cannot be.
I'm not saying natural phenomena are intelligent you doof. I'm saying what mandates our understanding of the universe as a system implies what is behind that system. Science can't penetrate the depths of nature. If human intelligence can do so much and still know so little then we are looking at some super intelligent cause. Anything other than a quantum shart in the void
I guess I think we have purpose. I think someday there will be something better than what we see now. I have no idea what that might be.
I don't believe in free will though. So on that level I don't think we can strive towards a purpose. I think the end goal is just happening without our control.
I meant intelligent as in intelligently designed. It is only our understanding of the universe that is intelligently designed. The universe is not designed, much less intelligently designed.
I think that we are not going to stop extracting and consuming fossil fuels, that we are not going to develop useable alternatives and we are not going to be able to sustain our current level of technological and material sophistication too far beyond the next 50 years or thereabouts. I think in our lifetimes we will see megadeath events both natural and man-made. I think the species will survive at best another two or three centuries, maybe four or five, but largely at subsistence level.
I believe that, assuming the above to be false, the genome will split along economic lines once designer babies are truly feasible. I believe that free market forces (specifically, a particular form of the Keynesian beauty contest) will prompt a form of inbreeding-by-proxy whereby the super-wealthy castes gradually become more and more genetically homogenous. I believe that at some point, a viral outbreak will wipe most of them out, and the genetic Morlocks will inherit the Earth.
This is so stupid, it doesn't take stupidity to reject spirituality, it depends on how you examine things, basically, since it can't be examined, what is the point of bothering with it now? If it happens, it happens, if I get reincarnated then I get reincarnated. No matter what kind of metaphysical bullshit happens, I can't possibly imagine how embracing it now would change its outcome if it's as powerful a force as you make it sound.
Basically, because this life is 'pointless' in the end, doesn't make the life you have pointless while you live it, in fact it's easy to make the argument that an atheist appreciates life more than anyone else, because he 'knows' he doesn't get a do over. Stop with this bullshit of saying atheists are basically nihilists simply because the people who reject religion and spirituality don't want to waste time on undemonstrable shit.
OP smokes weed daily and has taken mushrooms and maybe some LSD a few times. Maybe he smoked DMT once too. None of your thoughts are unique or profound and the way that you defend yourself proves your lack of intelligence and knowledge on the subject.