>Bongs are buttmad that they don't control ME >Saudis are buttmad that they don't control ME >Wahhab says "I've got a shitload of people in my tribe, if you let me preach my message I'll give them to you, Saud" >Bongistan says "I've got a shitload of money, if you give me control over trade then I'll give it to you, Saud" >Saud's fw
That's a complicated question and I like how you've phrased it. Certainly Wahhabism hasn't "hijacked Islam" or anything close to that, but the Wahhabis have come to be closely associated with the West's fears and suspicions about what Islam "truly" is.
Their surge to prominence in Arabia has two components: first, their alliance with the House of Saud which led to the Hashemites being pushed out of power in Arabia after a brief period of autonomy in the post WWI period. Second, the finding of oil in Saudi which propelled a backwater nation into incredible wealth. This, along with the Mujahadeen of Saudi origin who gathered in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion, has resulted in the exportation of Wahhibism to unlikely places like Pakistan.
Wahhibism might be strongly associated with Islam for two reasons: first, the cultural divergence of their hyper-conservatism from the secular west; second, the presence of Wahhabis among so-called Jihadist groups like al-Qaeda (most of the 911 hijiackers were Saudis).
But in reality Wahhabis have contributed little to Jihadi theology/ideology aside from personnel. The major thrust of influence for groups like al Qaeda and Hamas comes via Egypt and Sayyed Qutb (not Wahhabi clerics).
Islam and the state was always one, even before Wahhabism and the 'secular' nation of the Ottomans. The struggle between the church and stage did not happen in Islamic lands back then, they did have power struggles but they were tightly infused. I'm not saying this to bash Islam, obviously Islamic society before Wahhabism or without Wahhabism wad probably better.
I'm saying the region except for maybe the Maghreb has no collective consciousness or history of secularism, and the West is pushing it by force. Sadly with Wahhabism we've pushed the region into a corner, they either Westernize and accept our influence or die, instead of this process happening a lot more gradually.
>>556041 well post independence bangladesh had an ebin coup that was islamic in nature and caused them to reverse to their india hating stance. At the same time, the border between indian bengal and bangladesh was semi porous which led to bangladeshis migrating in after 1971 as well. then the indian state of bengal elected communists to power in 1978 and they quickly started importing bangladeshi muslims that were not ethnically bengali so that they would have a solid voting block.
In the late 90s the bangladeshis elected the daughter of the guy who was the head of the independence movement and who had been assassinated in the coup, and since then india has been on good terms with bangladesh
>muslim nation bangladesh is a secular country with a large muslim population and has a certain amount of heresy that would get them blammed by more pious muslims like having female imams. At the same time there is a certain sense of thankfulness to india since they liberated them from pakistan.
It helps that india has pretty generous water sharing agreements with bangladesh and is a large market for bangladeshi clothes.
that is ofcourse without going into details on how this kind of bengali islam arose in the first place
sadly wahabi money is turning this into hardliner islam that is gonna be bad for both the countries
>>556073 oh and to add, under the zia regime bangladesh provided bases to terrorist organizations active in eastern and north eastern india. When the government flipped, a shitload of them were caught and turned over to the indian government under the sheik hasina government in bangladesh
>>556120 no, there is actually a lot more. Its just posters for the most part are uninformed memers. its like asking /v/ on what makes a good videogame. >>556111 also, ever since then militancy in the north eastern part of india especially in assam has completely gone down. its mostly buttblasted born again christians trying to create their little burgerstans in the himalayan foothills. kinda cute if people didn't die.
I'm Morrocan-American, and I've noticed some of the youth in Morocco that is associated with my cousins are increasingly becoming radical. Western influence and Wahhabi influence are flaring sectarianism in the Middle East, soon every country will be ripe for Civil war unless Saudi Arabia, the gulf states, and even Iran is put in their place and stops exporting extremism. I am genuinely scared for the future of the region because it has immediate effects on my family.
Despite what many neo-reactionaries think most muslims in these Western/Zionist funded nations aren't violent, and have vices like any Christian. Now that Islam is a political tool... the religion will be changed forever. I don't know what will happen in the future, I don't really believe in an Abrahamic god but it brings incredible sadness to me watching my dad praying to God to keep his family safe in the future.
>>556165 >Western influence and Wahhabi influence are flaring sectarianism >soon every country will be ripe for Civil war unless Saudi Arabia, the gulf states, and even Iran is put in their place and stops exporting extremism >western/Zionist funded nations
>>556165 hang on, iran doesn't have the money or the infrastructure to export extremism the way saudi arabia does. it doesn't even have a large population of migrant workers to spread religious ideas to.
>>556173 In addition, Western influence causes a majority of the youth of the Maghreb to reject fundamentalism and romanticize American culture and liberalism. However these countries being aligned with both America and the Sauds make it so Wahhabism touches some of the youth. This promotes sectarianism, the youth in the future will be very divided.
>>556214 Saudi arabia and the gulf states in particular have a large amount of indian workers who work there in skilled and unskilled labor and send home remittances. this is particularly apparent in the indian state of kerala which has a substantial chunk of money based off it's remittances. This has allowed the state to have very high levels of growth for the subcontinent, and the only state of india that can be called 1st world tier is kerala. That is generally due to larger funding of education in the state and it's history in pre british india.
Now the saudis have jumped onto this bandwagon of investing in that state's education infrastructure and have created madrassas that teach students their favored brand of wahabic bullshit. This often clashes violently with how the muslims of the state have been living for centuries and causes civil strife between neighbors. And this happens in a state that has a 100% literacy rate. states in northern and eastern india have this problem compounded because there isn't a large network of government schools that are as accessible as petrodollar funded madrassas. >>556229 yeah, thats what I thought. Iran kept it's bullshit to itself and hezbollah and later had it fizzle out once their country got their shit back together in terms of healthcare and education. It is probably the second most liberal country in the middle east after israel.
>>556237 I'm not a Jew conspiracy theorist. Zionist/Israeli lobby has huge power in the US. I dont want Israel to be destroyed, I realize its a complicated situation. I don't really know why you have to bring my race into this, not trying to SJW you here its just really petty.
Maybe I have a bias towards Israel, I just do not agree with the governments ultranationalism.
>>556245 I think you're spot on calling Iran the 2nd most liberal, but it's important not to overlook any Middle Eastern states' inability to avoid being drawn into regional conflict and/or the internal conflicts of its neighbors. If our Moroccan friend's fears come true, Iran may be an important player in providing sectarian assistance (pro-Shi'ite rebels and etc.)
>>556273 by the time the next generation arrives iran will be in a post islamic state. The fuckers have burned out on islam for the most part already. their veil laws and stuff like that may seem repressive from a western perspective but they allow women to pursue education. That will reap them dividends in the longer run. >>556282 the peninsula needs to be under saudi control. houthis don't want that. they rebel they are being put down. iran helps them because of reasons and to gain influence in the peninsula. This is the very basic gist of it.
>>556292 I'm surprised Yemen was a functioning state for that long with such a large Shia minority.
It's important to realize Wahhabism new twist on Islam is that heretics are not 'true' Muslims, and can be killed. The Quran says a Muslim cannot kill another Muslim. Wahhabism threw this out the window and Shias and 'anyone who is not as extremely Sunni as me' types can be persecuted pretty easily. This rule didnt prevent Sunni-Shia strife but sort of softened it when things began to stabilize.
>>556009 >Islam and the state was always one It wasn't, really. Religion and state have been more separate in Islam than for much of Christendom throughout history, mostly because there was no concept of state for the region, only dynasties. Even the Wahhabi movement was separate from the Saud family, and remains so. It's not that the West pushed secularism, but that it left behind or promoted the concept of the nation state which regardless of ideology and religiosity has been comparatively more oppressive in enforcing uniformity of law than many in the region were used to.
>>556296 Its not a conspiracy. It is a fact that the conservative Jewish lobby has huge sway in the US and can INFLUENCE (not DICTATE) US foreign policy.
>>556303 Secularism is still a new concept to the region. I guess that makes us backwards. Islamic economics also does nor empower the state.. it is in the Wests best interest for sharia not to be implemented anywhere. Secular dictatorships are better for business.
>>556318 >Niazi dindu nuffin. he a gud boy going to mosque on fridays trying to get east pakistan back on track. >>556332 he is the opposite of ultra nationalist. he is an autist that whines about nation states being a conspiracy by the anglo man to keep his people down. pic related.
>>556327 >Even the Wahhabi movement was separate from the Saud family, and remains so. The "Al ash-Sheikh" (Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab's descendants) are literally the second family in the Saudi Kingdom.
>Muhammad ibn Saud and Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab had concluded a formal agreement in 1744: according to one source, Muhammad ibn Saud had declared when they first met, "This oasis is yours, do not fear your enemies. By the name of God, if all Nejd was summoned to throw you out, we will never agree to expel you." Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab replied, "You are the settlement's chief and wise man. I want you to grant me an oath that you will perform jihad (holy war) against the unbelievers. In return you will be imam, leader of the Muslim community and I will be leader in religious matters." - Al-Rasheed, Madawi (2010). A History of Saudi Arabia. p. 16.
>The agreement between Ibn Abd al-Wahhab and Muhammad ibn Saud of 1744 became a "mutual support pact" and power-sharing arrangement between the Al Saud and the Al ash-Sheikh, which has remained in place for nearly 300 years. The pact between the two families, which continues to this day, is based on the Al Saud maintaining the Al ash-Sheikh's authority in religious matters and upholding and propagating the Wahhabi doctrine. In return, the Al ash-Sheikh support the Al Saud's political authority  thereby using its religious-moral authority to legitimize the royal family's rule.
It's pretty much a Wahhabi theocracy. The families have intermarried and everything.
>>556347 The British Orientalists actually thought that though. It was probably an attempt to justify their occupation of an otherwise entirely alien land/people that were obviously capable of engineering great civilisations. They weren't as "savage" or "needing of civilisation" as Abos.
>>556372 I think he's "out there" more because of his personal autonym, his ultra-nationalism, and the raving tone in which he writes.
If he wrote in a manner that was not as rambling -and dropped the name- he wouldn't seem as immature/clueless/lunatic in his positions. Sourcing would help, too, because from what I've seen of Victorian orientalists they were very "conspiratorial" in their thinking too.
>>555945 A series of people looking the other way.
First, in return for a guarantee of its protectorate's borders in the Middle East, the British looked the other way when the ibn Sauds conquered the Arabian peninsula.
Then, in return for a steady flow of oil through a mutually lucrative corporation, the Americans looked the other way as Saudi Arabia proselytized against Arab nationalist, communist, and Shi'a interests.
Then, in return for funding and support, Pakistan looked the other way as Saudi Arabia exported its growing radical fundamentalism to its tribal areas to fight the Soviets.
Then, in return for funding and support to local fighters, NATO looked the other way as these veterans of Afghanistan moved into conflicts in North Africa, the Balkans, and the Caucasus spreading their revolution along the way.
When that came to a head with 9/11, and in return for supporting their occupation, the US-led coalition forces looked the other way as corrupt and highly sectarian governments in Iraq and Afghanistan drove locals into the hands of these revolutionaries, as the violence was televised globally bringing the ultimately Wahhabi-inspired vision of Islam as the ultimate anti-Western freedom fighter to the eyes of a generation of Muslims and non-Muslims throughout the world.
>>556397 This is good, but you seem to imply that Britain and America didn't and don't have long standing pacts with the Saudi family. They aren't "looking away", they're enabling and actively supporting Saudi rule.
Every un-brainwashed/un-invested (not on the Saudi payroll) Muslim knows that the Saudis are merely degenerates pretending to be Muslim so that they can keep their power. Monarchy in the guise of the Saudi family is seen as haram.
Need for totalitarianism that resulted from western colonization which was the driving force of the people unionizing around traditions of the past with more zeal than ever. This occurred everywhere really, whatever was the quickest path that lead to an authoritarian government was taken, so people can unite against an exploitative external enemy. For china this was communism for the middle east it was religion.
>>556009 Church and state were not separated in certain western countries until the twentieth century. Queen of England is still head of Anglican church ffs, even if its nominal. This process happened in France in 1906 only
>>556537 There is also the Crimean War that was kind of an Orthodox Catholic conflict and the Colonization of Inochina was justified by the French goverment that The Vietnamese were killing Catholics Yeah it is funny how people act like the West was always liberal like it is today
>>556608 >assad a force of stability that had his country functioning in a pretty good way. >hezbollah only thing that can be called a terrorist organization. >houthis freedom fighters >>556488 the wahabis are the steam valve that is gonna keep the saudis in power. butthurt muslims get funded by wahabis to forment terrorism in their own countries while the saudis clamp down on cells in their own countries.
>>556844 the primary thrust of wahabism comes to countries in S/SE asia that have their own folk tradition and they get rapidly arabized due to saudi backed shekels that believe that their syncretic religion is bad and living like desert nomads in 7th century arabia is good
>>556844 I guess your right in saying they contribute personnel mostly, if you mean to say that it was Saudis who spread their wahabist ideology throughout the world using petrodollars. This makes them the foremost contributors to a jihadist ideology. To add, the Muslim brotherhood, the most influential Islamist movement, found refuge in Saudi Arabia and helped establish Islamic universities in Saudi Arabia.
>>557049 but wahabism is the thing they keep the larger islamic world passive so that they can live their cozy lives. Wahabi schools mould muslims into giving up their own historical heritage and topple their states because it is not purely islamic enough by having too many rights for kafirs and whatnot while the saudi kings demolish historical buildings in mecca, build starbucks and fuck high end escorts in las vegas. Its pretty much a caricature out of marx's fantasies.
>>555970 >>555984 >implying Jews didn't also play a role in destroying the Ottoman Empire because they opposed the creation of the state of Israel >implying Jews weren't involved in everything the Eternal Anglo has done since Cromwell allowed them back on the island.
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