What led to Wahhabism hijacking the image of Islam?

File: King_Saud.jpg (75KB, 445x470px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 445x470px

>Bongs are buttmad that they don't control ME
>Saudis are buttmad that they don't control ME
>Wahhab says "I've got a shitload of people in my tribe, if you let me preach my message I'll give them to you, Saud"
>Bongistan says "I've got a shitload of money, if you give me control over trade then I'll give it to you, Saud"
>Saud's fw

Arabs being savages as usual

>>555945
petroshekels
its happening in india right now.

Perfidious Albion destroying Ottomon Turkey

File: 1448479167036.jpg (101KB, 428x500px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 428x500px

>>555956
>>555970
This
Its The Eternal Anglo's fault

>>555945

That's a complicated question and I like how you've phrased it. Certainly Wahhabism hasn't "hijacked Islam" or anything close to that, but the Wahhabis have come to be closely associated with the West's fears and suspicions about what Islam "truly" is.

Their surge to prominence in Arabia has two components: first, their alliance with the House of Saud which led to the Hashemites being pushed out of power in Arabia after a brief period of autonomy in the post WWI period. Second, the finding of oil in Saudi which propelled a backwater nation into incredible wealth. This, along with the Mujahadeen of Saudi origin who gathered in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion, has resulted in the exportation of Wahhibism to unlikely places like Pakistan.

Wahhibism might be strongly associated with Islam for two reasons: first, the cultural divergence of their hyper-conservatism from the secular west; second, the presence of Wahhabis among so-called Jihadist groups like al-Qaeda (most of the 911 hijiackers were Saudis).

But in reality Wahhabis have contributed little to Jihadi theology/ideology aside from personnel. The major thrust of influence for groups like al Qaeda and Hamas comes via Egypt and Sayyed Qutb (not Wahhabi clerics).

>>555956
Saudis are complete degenerates, it's Wahhab's family that keeps spreading that bullshit

File: image.jpg (61KB, 719x472px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 719x472px

Islam and the state was always one, even before Wahhabism and the 'secular' nation of the Ottomans. The struggle between the church and stage did not happen in Islamic lands back then, they did have power struggles but they were tightly infused. I'm not saying this to bash Islam, obviously Islamic society before Wahhabism or without Wahhabism wad probably better.

I'm saying the region except for maybe the Maghreb has no collective consciousness or history of secularism, and the West is pushing it by force. Sadly with Wahhabism we've pushed the region into a corner, they either Westernize and accept our influence or die, instead of this process happening a lot more gradually.

>>555994
Theres also the radical Deobandism which is somewhat more dangerous as seen with the Bangdalesh genocide

>>555945
Wahhabism, from the British's "divide and conquer" strategic pov for the middle east was just logical. Get a bunch of fundamentalist to cause havoc, come in and bring "peace"

>>556009
*empire
*state

English is not my original language

>>556016
Do bangladesh and india have good relations today?

>>556022
today yes
its a little more complicated than that.
I will explain if you wanna know.

>>556013
that was layered with pakistanis literally believing post 1857 memes as the truth.

>>556029
i know they Indis helped their liberation war, its just fascinating that its a muslim nation that is on good terms with them. id like an explanation

>>556013

I don't understand why you've appended that to my post.

>>556044
>appended

How are you on 4chan?

>>556041
well post independence bangladesh had an ebin coup that was islamic in nature and caused them to reverse to their india hating stance.
At the same time, the border between indian bengal and bangladesh was semi porous which led to bangladeshis migrating in after 1971 as well.
then the indian state of bengal elected communists to power in 1978 and they quickly started importing bangladeshi muslims that were not ethnically bengali so that they would have a solid voting block.

In the late 90s the bangladeshis elected the daughter of the guy who was the head of the independence movement and who had been assassinated in the coup, and since then india has been on good terms with bangladesh

>muslim nation
bangladesh is a secular country with a large muslim population and has a certain amount of heresy that would get them blammed by more pious muslims like having female imams.
At the same time there is a certain sense of thankfulness to india since they liberated them from pakistan.

It helps that india has pretty generous water sharing agreements with bangladesh and is a large market for bangladeshi clothes.

that is ofcourse without going into details on how this kind of bengali islam arose in the first place

sadly wahabi money is turning this into hardliner islam that is gonna be bad for both the countries

>>556013
there was a racial connotation to it as well. the pakistanis had a semi official "rape and turn them into urdu speaking islamic citizens" policy.

>>556069

???

>>556073
oh and to add, under the zia regime bangladesh provided bases to terrorist organizations active in eastern and north eastern india.
When the government flipped, a shitload of them were caught and turned over to the indian government under the sheik hasina government in bangladesh

>>556111
>>556073
thank you, that was informative. /his/ is not that bad of a board despite what most of you think.

>>556120
no, there is actually a lot more.
Its just posters for the most part are uninformed memers.
its like asking /v/ on what makes a good videogame.
>>556111
also, ever since then militancy in the north eastern part of india especially in assam has completely gone down.
its mostly buttblasted born again christians trying to create their little burgerstans in the himalayan foothills.
kinda cute if people didn't die.

File: image.jpg (88KB, 540x443px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 540x443px

I'm Morrocan-American, and I've noticed some of the youth in Morocco that is associated with my cousins are increasingly becoming radical. Western influence and Wahhabi influence are flaring sectarianism in the Middle East, soon every country will be ripe for Civil war unless Saudi Arabia, the gulf states, and even Iran is put in their place and stops exporting extremism. I am genuinely scared for the future of the region because it has immediate effects on my family.

Despite what many neo-reactionaries think most muslims in these Western/Zionist funded nations aren't violent, and have vices like any Christian. Now that Islam is a political tool... the religion will be changed forever. I don't know what will happen in the future, I don't really believe in an Abrahamic god but it brings incredible sadness to me watching my dad praying to God to keep his family safe in the future.

>>556165
>Western influence and Wahhabi influence are flaring sectarianism
>soon every country will be ripe for Civil war unless Saudi Arabia, the gulf states, and even Iran is put in their place and stops exporting extremism
>western/Zionist funded nations

Confirmed for defective brain

>>556165
hang on, iran doesn't have the money or the infrastructure to export extremism the way saudi arabia does.
it doesn't even have a large population of migrant workers to spread religious ideas to.

>>556173
Morocco, Algeria and every western allied nation is Zionist and Western backed, and serves Western interests and Saudi interests for the gain of the elite of the country.

You are defective.

>>556174
Iran is less of a player and I have less of an issue with them. They are still carving out their sphere of influence though and their revolutionary ideology is extremist in nature.

>>555967
Elaborate.

>>556205
they don't export it except in their immediate backyard and have toned it down quite significantly in their own country.

>>556173
In addition, Western influence causes a majority of the youth of the Maghreb to reject fundamentalism and romanticize American culture and liberalism. However these countries being aligned with both America and the Sauds make it so Wahhabism touches some of the youth. This promotes sectarianism, the youth in the future will be very divided.

>>556205
read his post again, he emphasizes other exporters of extremism first. Iran was more of an afterthought it appears.

>>556226
meant to reply to
>>556215

>>556194
Zionist. what?
What does this word mean?

>>556232
Zionism. Google it

>>556194
Is Israel so important that you must devide the world according to its stance on israel?
Fucking arabs...

>>556233
Yeah I know what it means I just wonder what it means to someone exposed to retarded arab/muslims propoganda.

>>556214
Saudi arabia and the gulf states in particular have a large amount of indian workers who work there in skilled and unskilled labor and send home remittances.
this is particularly apparent in the indian state of kerala which has a substantial chunk of money based off it's remittances.
This has allowed the state to have very high levels of growth for the subcontinent, and the only state of india that can be called 1st world tier is kerala.
That is generally due to larger funding of education in the state and it's history in pre british india.

Now the saudis have jumped onto this bandwagon of investing in that state's education infrastructure and have created madrassas that teach students their favored brand of wahabic bullshit. This often clashes violently with how the muslims of the state have been living for centuries and causes civil strife between neighbors. And this happens in a state that has a 100% literacy rate. states in northern and eastern india have this problem compounded because there isn't a large network of government schools that are as accessible as petrodollar funded madrassas.
>>556229
yeah, thats what I thought.
Iran kept it's bullshit to itself and hezbollah and later had it fizzle out once their country got their shit back together in terms of healthcare and education.
It is probably the second most liberal country in the middle east after israel.

>>556237
its their perpetual butthurt stick
much like pakistan with kashmir.

>>556237
I'm not a Jew conspiracy theorist. Zionist/Israeli lobby has huge power in the US. I dont want Israel to be destroyed, I realize its a complicated situation. I don't really know why you have to bring my race into this, not trying to SJW you here its just really petty.

Maybe I have a bias towards Israel, I just do not agree with the governments ultranationalism.

>>556245
I think you're spot on calling Iran the 2nd most liberal, but it's important not to overlook any Middle Eastern states' inability to avoid being drawn into regional conflict and/or the internal conflicts of its neighbors. If our Moroccan friend's fears come true, Iran may be an important player in providing sectarian assistance (pro-Shi'ite rebels and etc.)

>>556240

Zionism is the political movement for a Jewish homeland in the Middle East.
For people who have a negative view of Jews they use The term thinking its Jewish imperialism

>>556262
Also, can anyone explain to me in detail the Saudi coalition in Yemen and the geopolitical strings behind it? I am ignorant of the subject, it just looks like a Saudi-Iranian proxy war.

>>556277
Oh, right, the Israeli Empire.

>>556273
by the time the next generation arrives iran will be in a post islamic state. The fuckers have burned out on islam for the most part already.
their veil laws and stuff like that may seem repressive from a western perspective but they allow women to pursue education. That will reap them dividends in the longer run.
>>556282
the peninsula needs to be under saudi control.
houthis don't want that.
they rebel
they are being put down.
iran helps them because of reasons and to gain influence in the peninsula.
This is the very basic gist of it.

>>556262
I know right..
Every time I tell them about the New World Order they think im a conspiracy theorist...
Sometimes /his/ are real silly.

>>555945
Arabs couldn't handle Ottoman secularism

>>556292
I'm surprised Yemen was a functioning state for that long with such a large Shia minority.

It's important to realize Wahhabism new twist on Islam is that heretics are not 'true' Muslims, and can be killed. The Quran says a Muslim cannot kill another Muslim. Wahhabism threw this out the window and Shias and 'anyone who is not as extremely Sunni as me' types can be persecuted pretty easily. This rule didnt prevent Sunni-Shia strife but sort of softened it when things began to stabilize.

>>556120
what can you do when your average post is>>556303 tier ebin meming

>>556318
Why aren't you banned yet?

>>556009
>Islam and the state was always one
It wasn't, really. Religion and state have been more separate in Islam than for much of Christendom throughout history, mostly because there was no concept of state for the region, only dynasties. Even the Wahhabi movement was separate from the Saud family, and remains so. It's not that the West pushed secularism, but that it left behind or promoted the concept of the nation state which regardless of ideology and religiosity has been comparatively more oppressive in enforcing uniformity of law than many in the region were used to.

>>556296
Its not a conspiracy. It is a fact that the conservative Jewish lobby has huge sway in the US and can INFLUENCE (not DICTATE) US foreign policy.

>>556303
Secularism is still a new concept to the region. I guess that makes us backwards. Islamic economics also does nor empower the state.. it is in the Wests best interest for sharia not to be implemented anywhere. Secular dictatorships are better for business.

>>556323
He would be somewhat right if he wasn't so incendiarily ultra- nationalist.

>>556318
that is a myth created by races of monkeys and baboons and propagated by the race of parasites.

I smiled.

File: average his post.png (39KB, 1366x768px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 1366x768px

>>556318
>Niazi dindu nuffin. he a gud boy going to mosque on fridays trying to get east pakistan back on track.
>>556332
he is the opposite of ultra nationalist.
he is an autist that whines about nation states being a conspiracy by the anglo man to keep his people down.
pic related.

he has blown a few gaskets.

>>556331
If I am being ignorant I am open to discussion, I realize my worldview is influenced by my upbringing. I am here to learn, and browse dank memes

>>556350
here is a dank meme for you>>556318

>>556360
I've seen him in other threads before and he seems pretty out there. What are his people, where is he from?

File: 328559-9afe26c13a24f9c34e9ef571be9d7e1c.jpg (46KB, 680x378px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 680x378px

>>556327
>Even the Wahhabi movement was separate from the Saud family, and remains so.
The "Al ash-Sheikh" (Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab's descendants) are literally the second family in the Saudi Kingdom.

>Muhammad ibn Saud and Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab had concluded a formal agreement in 1744: according to one source, Muhammad ibn Saud had declared when they first met,
"This oasis is yours, do not fear your enemies. By the name of God, if all Nejd was summoned to throw you out, we will never agree to expel you." Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab replied, "You are the settlement's chief and wise man. I want you to grant me an oath that you will perform jihad (holy war) against the unbelievers. In return you will be imam, leader of the Muslim community and I will be leader in religious matters." - Al-Rasheed, Madawi (2010). A History of Saudi Arabia. p. 16.

>The agreement between Ibn Abd al-Wahhab and Muhammad ibn Saud of 1744 became a "mutual support pact" and power-sharing arrangement between the Al Saud and the Al ash-Sheikh, which has remained in place for nearly 300 years.[15][16][17][18] The pact between the two families, which continues to this day,[citation needed] is based on the Al Saud maintaining the Al ash-Sheikh's authority in religious matters and upholding and propagating the Wahhabi doctrine. In return, the Al ash-Sheikh support the Al Saud's political authority [19] thereby using its religious-moral authority to legitimize the royal family's rule.

It's pretty much a Wahhabi theocracy. The families have intermarried and everything.

>>556347
The British Orientalists actually thought that though. It was probably an attempt to justify their occupation of an otherwise entirely alien land/people that were obviously capable of engineering great civilisations. They weren't as "savage" or "needing of civilisation" as Abos.

>>556372
I think he's "out there" more because of his personal autonym, his ultra-nationalism, and the raving tone in which he writes.

If he wrote in a manner that was not as rambling -and dropped the name- he wouldn't seem as immature/clueless/lunatic in his positions. Sourcing would help, too, because from what I've seen of Victorian orientalists they were very "conspiratorial" in their thinking too.

>>555945
A series of people looking the other way.

First, in return for a guarantee of its protectorate's borders in the Middle East, the British looked the other way when the ibn Sauds conquered the Arabian peninsula.

Then, in return for a steady flow of oil through a mutually lucrative corporation, the Americans looked the other way as Saudi Arabia proselytized against Arab nationalist, communist, and Shi'a interests.

Then, in return for funding and support, Pakistan looked the other way as Saudi Arabia exported its growing radical fundamentalism to its tribal areas to fight the Soviets.

Then, in return for funding and support to local fighters, NATO looked the other way as these veterans of Afghanistan moved into conflicts in North Africa, the Balkans, and the Caucasus spreading their revolution along the way.

When that came to a head with 9/11, and in return for supporting their occupation, the US-led coalition forces looked the other way as corrupt and highly sectarian governments in Iraq and Afghanistan drove locals into the hands of these revolutionaries, as the violence was televised globally bringing the ultimately Wahhabi-inspired vision of Islam as the ultimate anti-Western freedom fighter to the eyes of a generation of Muslims and non-Muslims throughout the world.

>>556439
I'm curious.

Can you explain your ideology and views of the nation state? What is the alternative?

>>556397
This is good, but you seem to imply that Britain and America didn't and don't have long standing pacts with the Saudi family. They aren't "looking away", they're enabling and actively supporting Saudi rule.

Every un-brainwashed/un-invested (not on the Saudi payroll) Muslim knows that the Saudis are merely degenerates pretending to be Muslim so that they can keep their power. Monarchy in the guise of the Saudi family is seen as haram.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-using-cluster-bombs-made-by-the-us-in-yemen-claims-human-rights-watch-10224109.html

A Muslim revolution will soon wipe out the Wahhabi rule in Arabia and beyond, it's been building for decades.

Need for totalitarianism that resulted from western colonization which was the driving force of the people unionizing around traditions of the past with more zeal than ever. This occurred everywhere really, whatever was the quickest path that lead to an authoritarian government was taken, so people can unite against an exploitative external enemy. For china this was communism for the middle east it was religion.

>>555994
Wrong tho. Saudi wealth bankrolled an astounding amount of mosque building and clerics all over the Islamic world and even the west.

>>556009
Church and state were not separated in certain western countries until the twentieth century. Queen of England is still head of Anglican church ffs, even if its nominal. This process happened in France in 1906 only

>>556537
There is also the Crimean War that was kind of an Orthodox Catholic conflict and the Colonization of Inochina was justified by the French goverment that The Vietnamese were killing Catholics
Yeah it is funny how people act like the West was always liberal like it is today

File: islam 3.jpg (518KB, 700x900px) Image search: [Google]

518KB, 700x900px

Because Islam is inherently dangerous.

>>556174
Hezbollah, Assad, houthis and Assad all bankrolled by Iranian oil money senpai

>>556589
Hezbollah, SAA and Houthis don't suicide bomb civilians. They're not terrorists.

Some Alawi extremists do terrorise in Syria, however.

>>556558
Good point, a huge part of french imperialist justification in 19th century vietbam, ottoman empire and china was baed on protection of catholics

>>556581
HELLO LOOK AT ME I KNOW ISLAM

File: islam1.png (335KB, 954x665px) Image search: [Google]

335KB, 954x665px

>>556619

Good, it's important in this day and age.

>>556372
he is from pakistan.
>>556383
yeah, he picks and chooses ideas that suit his own narrative from that.
also, nice goblin you posted there.

>>556608
>assad
a force of stability that had his country functioning in a pretty good way.
>hezbollah
only thing that can be called a terrorist organization.
>houthis
freedom fighters
>>556488
the wahabis are the steam valve that is gonna keep the saudis in power.
butthurt muslims get funded by wahabis to forment terrorism in their own countries while the saudis clamp down on cells in their own countries.

>>556522
>Wrong tho
Pardon? I don't understand what you're disagreeing with.

>>556844
the primary thrust of wahabism comes to countries in S/SE asia that have their own folk tradition and they get rapidly arabized due to saudi backed shekels that believe that their syncretic religion is bad and living like desert nomads in 7th century arabia is good

File: 1434659080861.jpg (30KB, 500x368px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 500x368px

>Saudi Arabia had the chance to dismantle Wahabism for good after the grand mosque seizure
>They didn't go for it

They chose poorly

>>556943
yeah, lose all that soft power that muslims in the 3rd give them because some autists had their shitter shattered.

>>556844
I guess your right in saying they contribute personnel mostly, if you mean to say that it was Saudis who spread their wahabist ideology throughout the world using petrodollars. This makes them the foremost contributors to a jihadist ideology. To add, the Muslim brotherhood, the most influential Islamist movement, found refuge in Saudi Arabia and helped establish Islamic universities in Saudi Arabia.

>>557020
Found refuge after Nasser crackdown on them from 1954 onward*
Sorry on fone

>>556953

That shit they pulled shocked the Islamic world and hurt Wahhabism's reputation. How much support would the monarchy have really lost from cracking down on the radicals?

>>557049
but wahabism is the thing they keep the larger islamic world passive so that they can live their cozy lives. Wahabi schools mould muslims into giving up their own historical heritage and topple their states because it is not purely islamic enough by having too many rights for kafirs and whatnot while the saudi kings demolish historical buildings in mecca, build starbucks and fuck high end escorts in las vegas.
Its pretty much a caricature out of marx's fantasies.

>>555970
>>555984
>implying Jews didn't also play a role in destroying the Ottoman Empire because they opposed the creation of the state of Israel
>implying Jews weren't involved in everything the Eternal Anglo has done since Cromwell allowed them back on the island.

>>557310
Well, Mustafa Kemal ("Atatürk") despised Islam, and was the descendant of crypto-Jews (Dönmeh).

He abolished the Caliphate as a non-executive organ, even after its political power had been stripped from it.

Same goes for the majority of the Young Turks.

Islam itself ?

>>556841
Hezbollah are freedom fighters, they repulsed an Israeli invasion of southern Lebanon.

Why did the Hashemites lost "Saudi" Arabia? And how did they end up in Jordan? Was it after or before fleeing the gulf?

>>557405
Before fleeing the gulf. Iraq was also hashemite

>>557365
not the same thing as LeT then

Islam was never hijacked by anything, it just so happens that the areas dominated by Islam are backwards in comparison to Europe. The Abrahamic religions have always been strikingly intolerant.

Europe advanced in spite of Christianity, not because of it.

What are the deleted posts all about?