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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

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>huge
>a lot of resources
>a lot of people
>far away from europe's wars

What went wrong?
>>
Being in Latin America. Brazilian people are incredibly creative and know how to solve their problems, they are a great country (probably the best in Latin america), but they can't be better because of their surroundings.
>>
at least Brazil didn´t balkanize like spanish south america and is actually a regional power
>>
>>554098

Hi Mr. Diamond I loved your book

t. amateur historian
>>
>>554098
what surroundings? Argentina? the Atlantic Ocean?
>>
>>554081
Corruption so endemic that it's just a simple fact of life, no one wants to root it out, they just want their share of the loot. This is what I've been told by people I know in Brazil.

The /pol/ answer would be that Brazil would be a successful country if it wasn't filled with Brazilians.
>>
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Same thing that went wrong in every Latin American country:

oligarchy, racial caste system, Monroe Doctrine
>>
Coffee
Prices dropped, economy in shitter.
People turn to extremism aka military rule for help.

That was the problem for many Latin American countries, they depended too much on raw luxury goods/agricultural and depended on Europe/America for industrial goods aka stagnant industrial growth.
>>
>>554169
>Same thing that went wrong in every Latin American country
>every

Costa Rica says Hi.
>>
>>554172
This is wrong on so many levels.
First of all, coffee today is still one of Brazil's big exports. Not the greatest anymore but still good.
Second, coffee declining prices didn't fuck up Brazil so much by the late 19th century because they had other resources to export.
Third, there were 3 different government forms between the first republic and until the military takeover of the 60s. It wasn't as simple as that.
>>
>>554173

hola Costa Rica,

God Bless from America
>>
>>554199
>First of all, coffee today is still one of Brazil's big exports. Not the greatest anymore but still good.

I never said they didn't grow coffee anymore, thanks for putting words in my mouth

>Second, coffee declining prices didn't fuck up Brazil so much by the late 19th century because they had other resources to export.
>Although the coffee economy may have accounted for no more than 16 percent
of Brazil's gross domestic product (Leff 1982), it was the mainstay of the national economy. At its peak, the coffee industry generated
three-fourths of Brazil's export earnings.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/2503402?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

>Third, there were 3 different government forms between the first republic and until the military takeover of the 60s. It wasn't as simple as that.

I was talking about the crash in the early 20th century. The Old Republic was a military coup on the monarchy. I will concede that I worded that incorrectly and do apologize.
>>
>>554199
The problem wasn't the coffe itself but the oligarchy it put in power. Much of the brazilian undevelopment today can be tracked back to the old republic
>>
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>>554234
Oh I see you're talking about *that* military coup.
I am the one to apologize.
>>
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>>554247
Is this recent?
If so, wow it's worst than I thought, never going to be a first world at this rate.
>>
>>554234
To be fair, Republics in Latin America during the 20th century were just that in name.
>>
>>554253
It's recent
>>
>>554081
Brazil couldn't compete with Europe and North America as a center of industry in the Atlantic area, during the cold war it also needed military rule to stop the commies. Now new technology means industry need not be so centralized and the temperate areas in the South are seeing fast economic growth alongside Argentina and Chile.
>>
Poor gene pool.
>>
>>554164
>>554169
These and also slavery.

Slavery is cancer to a society.
>>
>>554099
Spanish South America was always balkanized, at least Colombia, Peru, Chile and Argentina had existed long before 1800, Brazil lost Uruguay/Cisplatina.
>>
>>554335
it worked for the romans
>>
>>554341
It was one of the major causes of their collapse. It's why the Byzantines didn't rely on it.
>>
>>554341
The influx of slaves from Roman wars destroyed the Roman middle class and led to the fall of the Roman Republic.
>>
>>554341
Not really. Christianity was able to spread extremely easily in the lower classes.
>>
>>554135
They are blinded by Argentina's incredible whiteness.
>>
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>>554098
>probably the best in Latin America

Except for the rampant murder, corruption, poverty, and drugs.
>>
>>554500

>calling a post bait and giving it a serious reply
>>
>>554513
>serious

Was flippant sarcasm. The only proper way to respond to bait when calling it out.
>>
>>554347
But Brazil is white too.
According to them, they only have a 9% black population.
>>
>>554500
Have you got any idea how they could go about trying to solve those problems, or are you happy just pointing them out?
>>
>>554338
>Colombia
Ecuador, Venezuela, and Panama all used to be part of Colombia. Sounds pretty Balkanized to me.
>>
>>554081

I don't know a lot, but it strikes me that Brazil is just the result of what happens when corruption and lack of regulations get out of hand.

I mean, there's a lot of really nice and rich people in Brazil, but the extremes of wealth are unheard of even in the US. There's super rich and super poor.
>>
>>554081
>What went wrong?

It actually looks too much Poortugal.
>>
Brazil is a better Venezuela, but only just. It's not hard to be better than Venezuela.
>>
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The Old Republic is what went wrong. A republic that no one wanted and thus had no stake in, and subsequently decades of political power being entirely in the hands of coffee barons with no interest in industrialization.

Basically the end of the Empire paralyzed any and all possibility of reform or internal growth.
>>
Populism.

Right now: our politicians decided to listen to Post Keynesian economists. We got a stagflation as a result of Post Keynesian policies. Hired a Chicago economist to fix this mess. He found out that with our current populist congress, it is impossible to fix this mess. He quit.
>>
>>554751
>Populism is the reason Brazil has being shit since 1500
>Pedro Alvarez Cabral the father of the poor
>>
>>554834
Brazil was not always shit. When we were a monarchy, we were improving. Under Castelo Branco, we did as well.
>>
>>554868
>Under Castelo Branco, we did as well.
How different was Castelo Branco to JK?
>>
>>554875
A lot.

They both tried to open our economy.

But JK spent much more than he should have. This was great in the short run, but created an inflation and ensured his successors would have a miserable life, which eventually led to the military coup.

Castelo Branco had a short period as the President, where he reduced our inflation and debt, which made the life of his successors quite easy.

Brazil being Brazil, his successors eventually spent all he has saved.
>>
>>554081

Text on the flag.

If they hadn't taken the royal iconography off and replaced it with text everything would have gone much better.
>>
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>>554081
The government is too big and the economy is too unfree. That's it.
>>
>>554654
but Chile [Master Race] always independent and victorious
>>
>>554917
Pedro II was a great leader. Launching a coup to install a republic was fucking disastrous.

Well, if current Brazil's problems are due to military rule imposed by a threat of communism, as >>554313 claimed, what would it be like had one not been installed? Even more corruption and less economic freedom?

[SPOILER]I don't know what kind of communists he's talking about, that's why I'm asking. Stalinists, Maoists, local populists?[/SPOILER]
>>
>>555030
>I don't know what kind of communists he's talking about,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo%C3%A3o_Goulart
>>
>>554973
>America
>Land of the Free
>>
I'm assuming Brazil is a pretty multicultural country - could the issue be just that; multiculturalism?
On every fucking stat I've ever seen homogeneous nations are more prosperous and less violent.
When South Africa started mixing people violence exploded, expected life span plummeted.
Same goes for Sweden & violence since they opened the gates to middle eastern immigrants.
The examples are endless but you get the point.
>>
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if you to have a thrieving economy and finally be the "country of the future" start exporting your women (and i mean your women - not your "half" women)
portugal will be looking for those raw materials

t.: not portugal
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>>555084
>I'm assuming Brazil is a pretty multicultural country - could the issue be just that; multiculturalism?
It's not exactly like that. Brazil has people who come from different cultures, ethnicities and backgrounds, but once they enter the country they are forced to assimilate. They are not handed any benefits. People will not hesitate in making fun of your culture, although, at the same time, you will feel welcome. You have to learn Brazilian culture in order to survive.
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>>554098
Chile, Argentina and Uruguay are all much nicer.

Also, the reason is CIA plots and assassinations aimed at crippling the Socialist movements in Latin America throughout the 20th century.

US backed leaders were cucked to American business interest and are the only reason favelas are still a common sight outside of the southern cone.
>>
I'm brazilian and I think this >>554164 describes well the problem.
>>
>>555227
This. USA caused influence in SA and in order to keep the influence during the Cold War. it had to resort to harsh measures.

Most freed slaves went to live at Brazil.

When the empire fell, the Republic was complete crap. They were behind by industry.

Corruption still in Brazil with bad investment having been done.

Also.
A lot of Niggers
>>
>>554081
Didn't stretch from sea to shining sea.
>>
>>554081
Deeply rooted culture of destructive, exploitative extractivism, massive racial and socio-economic splits (despite the relative mixing), populism, crushing bureaucracy, american and european meddling since pretty much Pedro II, very little order despite what's on the flag thus limited planning all across the board.

Unloading a bunch of greedy portuguese, italians and spaniards in a land full of riches and too big to keep a tight check tends to end badly
>>555084
cuck detected. multiculturalism is actually one of the few strenghts brazil has. It's really nice to walk a round and see a full pallette of humanity; a true melting pot instead of the usual anglo salad bowl
>>
>>555084
>When South Africa started mixing people violence exploded, expected life span plummeted.
...You mean the Boer war?
>>
>>554098
t. jared diamond
>>
>>554081
They lost the monarchy.
>>
The military regime set Brazil back a couple of decades. It is been recovering ever since.
>>
>>554135
The dense Amazon, of which they can't just obliterate lest we ALL get fucked
>>
>>554868
Too bad Castelo Branco was only a tenth of the military regime and the rest was filled with morons with less than a basic understanding of economics.
>>
>>555084
Brazil is multi ethinic, not multi cultural. People assimilate very quickly, specially compared to Europe/USA where immigrants don't assimilate at all.
>>
>>557619
not really, the military governement built a lot of infrastructure, highways, etc. Also nationwide TV networks and developed aeronautical industry
>>
>>557653
It also spent way more money than it needed in any of these things. Accrued a ridiculous amount of foreign debt, sent Brazil into a corkscrew of inflation and then left the mess for the civillians to fix.
>>
>>554169
>t. marxist
It's funny because a marxist freire-lover is currently ruining Brazil

Pottery
>>
>>555084
>>555084
Can you name any prosperous homogenous nation that isn't Japan? When you look at the image what do you come up with? Historically, can you think of any prosperous state that was racially or culturally homogenous?
>>
>>557659
What's wrong with what he said?
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Corruption. Shit people in power.
Pic related. Died in a plane crash before an election with majority support.
>>
>>557708
South Korea.
Germany before WW1.
Portugal until very recently.
Australia and New Zeland
[spoiler]Argentina[/spoiler]
>>
>>557725
He wasn't going to win anon. Maybe just force a third turn, just like Marina did.
>>
>>557711
Paulo Freire's doctrine.


He saying what he learned on our public schools.


He was brainwashed.
>>
>>557736

Okay, a good list. How do they compare, prosperity-wise, to the modern versions of Germany, France, the UK, or the US?
>>
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>>554098

>best country in Latin America

>1st world country

pick one
>>
>>554626
>Asking for policymaking advice on 4chan.
>>
>>557631
>Implying they shouldn't turn it into a single huge industrial zone
>Implying I'm joking
>>
>Spain brings Catholicism to South-America
>all countries in SA are shitholes

>England brings Protestantism to New World
>USA becomes the most powerful nation in the world

Cucktholicism
>>
>>558419
>England brings Protestantism
I like how people tend to forget that England had over 100 colonies and only three of them were successful.
>>
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>tfw South America is at last getting rid of leftism
Now we can finally get back to economic development.
>>
>>557725
>majority support
wot
>>
>I-It's the culture guys! The corruption we never fixed! No, better yet, let's blame the Portuguese!
The U.S. had a period where they had so much corruption that they ended up paying more for a court house than for all of Alaska due to bribes n' shit. Yet look at them now.

The reason Brazil didn't grow as much as it could have was because they industrialized far too late. Brazil is like a U.S.A. where the south always dominated.
>>
>>558419
>England brings Protestantism to Africa
>literally hell on Earth
>>
>>557478
A melting pot is not multiculturalism. No Latin American city is truly multicultural. Those shitty anglo and middle eastern salad bowls are multicultural.
>>
>>558866
Actually some of the biggest shitholes in Africa are Catholic. Majority protestant Namibia and Botswana on the other hand are pretty decent, for African standards at least.
>>
>>554973
works for china
>>
>>554081

Not enough whitr people
>>
To give an example on how bad Brazil is for business.

A Hospital hired a guy. Guy was a poor worker. Hospital fired the guy. Our Labor Justice made the Hospital rehire the guy because he was a crack addict. They said that since crack addiction was a disease, firing a crack addict is a form of discrimination. Since discrimination is illegal in Brazil, they had to rehire the guy and pay the months of salary that he didn't work.

So, basically, no one wants to open new companies in Brazil.
>>
iron ore price dropping to below $40 a tonne
>>
>>554973
This is a consequence, not an independent cause.
>>
>>557736
not Australia m8 plenty of other cultures represented here. we had a big "italians and greeks are cool" phase after they all were immigrating away from war torn europe and set up shop here. also a massive influx after Vietnam.
>>
>>558930
Only after they allowed trade to take place and changed their economy to capitalism. Just imagine how China would be if it had been more open and less authoritarian.
>>
>>554081
slavery. too much of it
>>
>>559136
Almost every negative aspect of Brazil today is a consequence of big government.
>>
>>554539
yeah, but like 70% pardo population, which are black-white mixed
>>
>>554338
>Brazil lost Uruguay/Cisplatina.
The Portuguese occupyed it for some time and then they were driven out. I was never actually theirs.
>>
>>560687
is 70% of the pardo population B/W mixed?
>>
>>560718
>>560687
Brazil have more whites than pardos.
>>
>>560787
Brazil is not fucking white

I'm Brazilian, trust me
>>
>>555030
>>555056

>communists
Brazil is a Huge country. a communist revolution, like the one in cuba would be impossible, mearly due to the sheer size of the country. And we always had a conservative population (or at least a population afraid of changes), so a communist coup would be impossible in Brazil, just as it is on the USA.

>João Goulart
>Communist
He was a leftist, i'll give you that. but his govenrment was years away from a commie ideals. in fact, the communist party in brazil considered him a corrupt politician (which he was) and only marginaly better then the others, while the Right wing belived that since he was in favour of Worker's rights, he was a Godless Commie bastard . just as they believe today's left are commies, when they are actually quite center.
>>
>>558802
write my words. Marci is gonna fall, because his government plan is undoing everything Krishner did (which was not all bad) and then waiting for everything to fix itself. the bunch of decrees he signed since assuming show that he does not gives a shit about anything. and the people in argentina are used to taking presidents down, he will be just another one.
>>
>>554081
If Brazil was 99% White do you think it would be better or worse off?
>>
>>560927
>Marci
> Krishner
You don't even know what are you talking about.
>>
>>554169
What went wrong in every Latin American country? Huge socialist states. Same thing with Africa and some Asian countries. Soon: USA and Europe.

>Paulo Freire
Have you ever considered suicide? You're a waste of food, oxygen and space.
>>
>>561705

Why would the USA and Europe order themselves to have the same kind of economies that they ordered Latin America and Africa to have?

And who would be on the other end of this getting the profits, with the USA and Europe out of the equation, who is doing this TO the USA and Europe?
>>
>>561033
/pol/ pls go
>>
>>554098
>blaming others
commie
>>
>>561705
>Scandinavia has transparent governments, high levels of public trust and public participation
>they try for social democracy
>it works
>South America has corrupt governments, a public that hates and fears one another, and a tradition of government by a well-born elite
>they try for social democracy
>it doesn't work
>>
>>561033

What happened in Argentina? One of the top ten economies on the planet a hundred years ago, and they were ruined only after they became part of the United States economy.
>>
>>557736
>Portugal
>Argentina
>Prosperous, homogeneous
>>
>>561736
Argentina is literally the go-to example people point to for how to fuck up a country.

>never bother investing in rule of law or strong institutions because you get by fine selling beef to gringos
>oh fuck commodities prices are down
>oh fuck, a military coup
>oh fuck, populists feeding off of all the poor, disenfranchised people
>oh fuck, another coup

Repeat ad infinitum.
>>
You guys have no idea how closed Brazil is as a country.
Latin Americans hate meritocracy
>>
>>554626
Dealing with poverty would almost directly drop the murder and drug problems.

They have their hands tied behind their backs with that due to how fucking corrupt the government is. I do feel for them there.

But it's going to come crumbling down soon. Things should seen an improvement after that.
>>
>>554626
>digitize literally every financial transaction by the government, and have this information publicly available to crack down on graft
>try to create a Korea style commodities boom to get all of the favela dwellers into real jobs
>hang Dilma from a lamp post
>do every conceivable thing that you can to move up the Ease of Doing Business Index
>birth control everywhere
>>
>>561728
Nice mccarthyist non-sequitur
>>
>>561848
>poverty is the reason for crime
Just look at India. Huge inequality, extreme poverty and low crime rates. Also, since most of Brazil is now "middle-class", shouldn't the rates be droping?
>>
>>561735
Scandinavia has also some of the freest markets in the world and a huge concentration of wealth.
Still, their system is already crumbling and reforms that reduce government welfare are on the way.
>>
>>554164
>Corruption so endemic that it's just a simple fact of life, no one wants to root it out, they just want their share of the loot.

So just like Hungary, then...
>>
>>554341
literally false. thanks for the contribution.
>>
>>557736
Australia is 90% white, but of those "whites" many are hardly what you'd call anglo-saxon. The last 10% is made up of just about every Asian nation you can think.

Makes for a lot of great food at least.
>>
Brazil could do with a healthy dose of nationalism. The cost of a decently integrated 'multicultural' ethnic composition has been a near total elimination of integrated national cultural identity (other than in futebol). Nationalism has its downfalls, I'll agree, but a great and necessary strength is giving the individual a sense of giving to the community. In my experience, there is no such sentiment here. Everyone is out for themselves and their loved ones, and that's it.
Pretty sure this is one contributing factor to the corruption. There is absolutely no sense of guilt and betrayal because nobody sees the nation as your own people. Particularly not young people, which is worrying for the next generations.
>>
>>554081
the people in charge no longer had badass fuckall names like "Dom Pedro" or any similar variant
>>
>>560687
>yeah, but like 70% pardo population, which are black-white mixed

Tu m'en apprends a chaque jour, Jese Da Silva...
>>
>>561033
didn't Work for Argentina nor Albania
>>
>>557646
>compared to Europe/USA where immigrants don't assimilate at all.
Idk about Europe, but the US has a shining record of assimilating immigrants.
>>
>>563334
>Brasil, ame-o ou deixe-o
>>
>>554081
Both the historical right-wing (military regime) and the left-wing (PTB, PT, PDT) promoted centralization of power, control of the state over the economy (oil, natural gas, electricity, infrastructure, banking), and have repeatedly resorted to inflationary economical policies.

To give you some perspective, all telephone communication was state-owned until 1998, by Telebrás. You had to wait months to get a residential line, "middle-class" neighbors used to completely rely on payphones well into mid 90s.

Another element that is more particular of the current crisis is political fragmentation. There are more than 25 parties with seats in the parliament. No party has more than 70 out of 513 seats, the opposition is very small, almost all politicians prostitute and have prostituted themselves to support the ruling party, in exchange they are legally authorized to direct some part of the federal budget to the place where they got elected, they can nominate people close to them, even their family, to posts inside public companies (more than 100k posts in Brazil are politically nominated), posts in ministries (there are more than 30 bullshit useless ministries in Brazil). Politicians don't defend anything, they are there to practice traffic of influence. The ruling party not only did buy the parliament to support their projects, but also to prevent them from investigating them, since they're all getting something in return and involved. So it serves as protection.

If you're American or British, I advise to not complain so much about your 2-party system.
>>
>>554081
the flag is shit

successful, long-lasting countries have good flags
>>
>>554081
>What went wrong?

>A lot of black people
>Latin (Portuguese or Spanish) colonization
>Catolicism
>>
>>557646
By assimilate you must mean learn the language or something.
The music, accent, eating habits, architecture, etc., are largely different across regions.
>>
>>554338
>Spanish South America was always balkanized

You're wrong. Spanish south america had administrative regions, just like Brazil. The difference is that in Brazil, the Empire fought to keep those regions together, unlike Spanish south America.

Spanish south america lacked a strong, central government to keep it intact. Brazil had this advantage, because their independence process was different.
>>
>>564246
You made no argument as to why having big-ass chaotic country like Brazil is good for its people. You just assume big = good.
>>
>>564260
>big-ass chaotic

You are one of those Brazilian underdogs? The Brazilian government is stable and not even close to chaotic.

I'm not going to explain the advantages of a big country.

Brazil is not an US simply because it isn't. The reasons go from culture, language, religion to geography, climate and political structure of the last 200 centuries. It's easy to just point fingers at some historical period and say that's it.

You're not going to get a concrete answer to what "went wrong" in Brazil, here on an anonymous board.
>>
>>564330
>I'm not going to explain the advantages of a big country.

Ok, then, like I said you're just going to assume it's inherently good. Fuck off.
>>
>>564211
But they are all considered Brazillian.
Unless you are a butthurt gaucho o sul é meu país type of guy.
>>
>>564410
doesn't mean there aren't multiple and fairly different cultures. "Brazilian" is just an umbrella or a suffix if you will.
>>
>>564424
Yeah, but that is true for almost every country on Earth. Specially for countries the size of Brazil.
One could say the same about France or Germany, sure there would be less differences, but nobody can possibly claim a Corsican and a Norman have the exact same culture neither could one claim they aren't French.
>>
>>564450
so don't claim Brazil is monocultural.
>>
>>564461
I am not.
>>
>>564467
>>557646
>Brazil is multi ethinic, not multi cultural.
>>
>>564491
>There are more than 2 people posting in a thread
>>
>>560837
t. bahiano
>>
>>560927
Wow you truely know nothing about it. Either that or you are a butthurt leftist.
>>
>>561705
>What went wrong in every Latin American country? Huge socialist states. Same thing with Africa and some Asian countries. Soon: USA and Europe.
Except asian countries developed with huge amounts of state intervention, and the african countries that are basically coerced into orthodox economic policies by the imf went to absolute shit (not that they weren't shit already).
>>
>>561762
Then why do Lebanese immigrants thrive in Latin America?
>>
>>554500
...that's kinda normal in Latin America.

Brazil is doing better than most of it's neighbors on most of the factors you mentioned.
>>
>>564330
It needs true federalism.
>>
>>554081
>>a lot of resources

that is used as leverage to defend the chimera of self-subsistence, leading to closed economy, huge import taxes, deindustrialization, almost nonexistent innovation and low standards of living. Of course this is supported by the highest oligarchy, since they don't want to compete with foreign companies, and the so-called "progressives", dumb (or dishonest) people who think they are fighting against the status quo when they are doing precisely the opposite.

that is a good explanation too: >>564166
>>
>>565562
completely wrong. Brazil is 3x more violent (per capita) compared to Paraguay.
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>>557736
>Portugal until very recently.
Never prosperous, not as far as most of the population was concerned. And the rich were sustained by our own brand of politically correct "blanda-up" brand of colonialism that spawned Brazil.

Our own nationalistic, conservative, fascist government endorsed the ideology of "luso-tropicalism" that stated the Portuguese were better colonialists (read: fuckers) than the Dutch and the Anglos.
>>
>>565603
Brazil is huge, though. There are great differences between regions there.
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>>554098
>probably the best in Latin america
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>>565640
Paraná, a state with one of the highest standards of living in the country, has an homicide rate of over 32 per 100k inhabitants/year. The homicide rate in Paraguay is bellow 10/100k/year.
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>>565562
>...that's kinda normal in Latin America.
Not in the southern cone.
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>>565603
I didn't say all neighbors. See the other big countries around, specially Venezuela and Colombia. Most countries north of Brazil have death squads and drug cartels that control whole regions.
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>>554081
From what I remember, historically Brazil was a lot like the ante-bellum American South for a long time in the sense that it was an agricultural society run by a landed, slave-owning elite. Because there wasn't much of a counterforce like in the USA, both the abolition of slavery and Brazilian industrialization didn't come until much later, like the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Industrialization was stifled because there wasn't a large source of cheap wage labor like the USA had with immigrants. Immigrants didn't go to Brazil because 1) it was costlier to get there, and 2) being former slave-owners, many Brazilians were absurdly cruel employers. I don't remember why the former slaves couldn't just become the wage labor pool, maybe they weren't willing to work for their former masters again?

There was also a string of military coups/dictatorships throughout the 20th century that probably destabilized things, and let's not forget the rampant corruption and crime down there that likely drives the costs of doing business with Brazil through the goddamn roof, so foreign investment shrinks.

As for the resources, the Amazon rainforest is right there, but I think I remember reading somewhere that harvesting the Amazon's resources is (or least was, for a long time) ridiculously costly due to things like the heat, the climate, the hyper-dense foliage, local fauna, etc. On top of that, in this current age of environmentalism, I would imagine there'd be considerable political opposition to further deforestation.
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>>565681
Brazil has 9 neighbors. Of those, only 2 are more violent.
Therefore you're dead wrong. Most cocaine production happens in Peru and they're not close to being as a murderous hole as Brazil is.
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>>565690
>I don't remember why the former slaves couldn't just become the wage labor pool, maybe they weren't willing to work for their former masters again?
Because black people are not good workers.
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>>565719
Nice try
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>>565699
Man, you are tunneling. You said: rampant murder, corruption, poverty and drugs (>>554500).

See poverty and corruption, besides drugs and murder.
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>>565725
The only country that beats Brazil in corruption is Russia.
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>>565732
Can you link me up? I can't see that.
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>>565724
I'm from latin america I know what I'm saying.
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>>554081
Country-wide slavery up to 1888, until Vargas the state didn't directly promote industrialisation.
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>>565744
>I'm from latin america

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

>I know what I'm saying

kek
>>
Democracy
>>
>>562664
>low crime rates
Are we both talking about the same Rapeland here?
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>>565758
>Le /pol/ boggiee man
Ever considered latin america is poor because most people descend from slaves and injuns? or are you too brainwashed to consider the idea?people have nothing to do in the fate of a nation! only trivial shit like climate and the amount of seeds available are valid explanations.
>>
>>565690
> Industrialization was stifled because there wasn't a large source of cheap wage labor like the USA had with immigrants.
True, but we did get immigrants, it just pales in comparison with the USA. The biggest problem was the lack of internal market due to slavery

>As for the resources, the Amazon rainforest is right there
What kind of resources are you talking about here? The only really important resources from there I can remember of are the huge iron mines in Pará and water for hydros, even then it's suboptimal
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>>557741

Annnnddddd you know nothing about Freire, clearly.
That's embarrassing m8. You wouldn't find yourself in this position if you'd just refrain from blurting out your vague and uninformed opinions.
>>
>2016
>still thinks natural resources aren't negatively correlated with development
>>
>>565798
Sweden.
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>>561735
Sweden doesn't even have minimum wage.
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>>565798
>Canada,Norway,Australia
Human biology is what determines development,despite being the most scientifically sound viewpoint its deemed as taboo in current society.
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>>565806
how do you explain East and West Germany or South and North Korea, then, retard?
Their culture is similar, their genetic make-up is similar, their economical policies were radically different and the results are visible to everyone.
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>>565823
You're fucking retarded
t. Brazilian
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>>565782
>What kind of resources are you talking about here?

Idk, I would just imagine that such a huge rain forest would have a number of natural resources around, from ores to plant-based resources to local fauna. I haven't actually looked into what's out there and I freely admit my ignorance on this point.
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>>565817
Communism can ruin high potential societies because it goes against human nature and undermines the individual worth of the people.
How do you explain haiti and dominican republic? only difference between the two is amount of european admixture.
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>>565801
>>565806
>Scandinavia, Canada, Norway, Australia
All suffered somewhat from dutch disease and are a little bit too primarized, compensated through other factors.

>despite being the most scientifically sound viewpoint
:^)
Do you want me to quote intellectuals saying japanese were a bunch of retard when they weren't developed? Or maybe the same with germans? Or with southeast asians? Or what romans thought of celtic and germanic tribes? Etc.
Culturalist and racial explanations are always post hoc rationalizations.
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>>565777
>Ever considered latin america is poor because most people descend from slaves and injuns?

That has to do with the poverty trap, not the pseudo-scientific belief that one's race, on a biological level, makes them "unfit" for being successful or some other nonsense.
>>
>>565777

Funny because Chile is 70% injuns and are doing much better than Argentina.
>>
>>565841
>Do you want me to quote intellectuals saying japanese were a bunch of retard when they weren't developed?
>when they weren't developed?
19 century intellectuals? kek Japan was a high IQ country regardless of the state they were in the past,just like China is a high IQ country despite the shitty state they are now,however their biology will triumph over their material condition and they will develop.
> Or maybe the same with germans?
Again high IQ people under harsh condition.
>>565854
So you're saying all races have the same intellectual capabilities? are you aware of the average IQ of Africans and Injuns? you people love science until it goes against your ideology.
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>>565868
>Chile is 70% injuns
Google Chilean genetic studies,their middle and upper class are basically unmixed.
Again,science debunks your bias.
>>
"huehuehue.png"
I like the file's name...
>>
inb4 pinochet allende debate
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>>565879
Yes, i'm aware you consider those people smart, which is why i talked about post hoc rationalization. Before they were developed they were considered a bunch of retarded savages by the civilized world, that's the point. Your point of view is completely unoriginal and has been held by the relatively developed countries in regard to the relatively undeveloped ones through history, even though the groups of developed and undeveloped has changed constantly.
The rationalization is particularly obvious when you read racists talk about history, and the huge mental juggles they do regarding egypt, greece, african and arab empires, etc. Especially compared to how northern europeans fared.
>>
>>565879
IQ has very little to do with the development of a nation. You never ever need high average IQ for a population to develop, just several men who either invent or trade technologies, a powerful enough force to reign over several countries or regions, etc

IQ overall is still, and remains, a dubious way to classify people according to their intelligence. It's improper to call it a "science", and it doesn't represent intellectual capabilities, only a potential to improve.
>>
>>565826
>>565841
>>565854
Well every now and then there is also some low IQ mulatto autist like yourself who thinks he is smart, because the mongrelization process is unstable and all sorts of bizarre brain shapes(cognitive types) are relatively common as a result.
>>
>>565879
You know IQ is, to a great extent, limited by your degree of formal education? Same with the capacity for formal logic.
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>>554081
>Huge

Mostly uninhabitable

>A lot of resources

Which is why it's economy is even in a thing

>A lot of people

A lot of poor, uneducated, useless people

>Far away from Europe's wars

Doesn't mean it's a stable country. Marred by social issues and political corruption. It's a borderline failed state.

t. Brazilian
>>
>>555227
>Also, the reason is CIA plots and assassinations aimed at crippling the Socialist movements in Latin America throughout the 20th century

This is *a* reason. You can't just ascribe all of modern South American history to the CIA.
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>>565777
>only trivial shit like climate

How the fuck is climate 'trivial shit'?
>>
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>>565960
>Mostly uninhabitable
>>
>>565932
>Before they were developed they were considered a bunch of retarded savages by the civilized world
You're implying modern Germans are genetically indistinct than the tribesmen that lived around the area in ancient times,even if they were which is impossible then its their harsh condition that put them down,people with potential eventually overcome their burdens,meanwhile countries with tons of potential resource wise but populated by people that have none never develop.
Why is human biology such a taboo in the study of human groups? this is Orwellian.
>>565933
> You never ever need high average IQ for a population to develop
Which is wrong,the only exceptions are oil exporting giants which are the macroeconomical equivalent of a trailer park trash winning the lottery.
> and it doesn't represent intellectual capabilities, only a potential to improve.
Well I said POTENTIAL a lot so we are in agreement.
>>565947
This is actually pretty far from the truth,IQ is genetic in the most part and environmental(proper nutrition,etc),education has little to do with it.
IQ=education is a texbook fallacy in this kind of argument.
>>
>>565879

>history through the lens of modern IQ tests and surveys

back to /pol/!
>>
>>565984
Are you implying germans genetically evolved from savage tribesmen to an intellecually superior race in less than two millenia? Jesus, the mental juggles are off the charts.
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>>565990
He may also be implying race-mixing is good.
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>>565984
>environmental(proper nutrition,etc),education has little to do with it
Education comes factors into environment.

Look outside schools, into agricultural populations with low literacy. They don't think differently just in quantitative terms, but also in a qualitatively distinct fashion. Like, when asked to pair objects, they tend to pick different criteria than school-taught children. And so, their tests scores are less of a measure of general intellectual development and more of a measure of literacy.
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>>565989
>Stop using science to try and make sense of my worthless major!
Back to /his/ oh wait,
>>565990
>Genetically evolved
Why do you need to put words in my mouth to make your argument? Germans from the 2 thousand years ago are not the same people as Germans from today,humans migrate and reproduce with each other they are not static,your historical comprehension is too antiquated gramps.
>>566003
Depends.
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>>565990
Or maybe the 'savage tribesman' were already intellectually superior
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>>566006
Have you ever taken an IQ test? its abstract problem solving,you dont even need to be literate.
If the IQ test you are familiar with has words in it then its not mensa approved and nobody takes it seriously.
>>
They are lazy. Very lazy. This fact is corroborated by both Brazilians themselves, and anyone who has to conduct business in Brazil for whatever reason.

There was never that feverish rush to greatness that the United States encountered with its boatloads of people ready to hit the ground running and make their fortune, or the core principles of government that the Constitution enabled
>>
>>566014
Well they worked metals and had functioning societies in what was basically a giant frozen forest,buts its pure speculation we really don't know much about them.
>>
>>566017
>Have you ever taken an IQ test? its abstract problem solving,you dont even need to be literate.

there are frequently problems such as "Recompose <bunch of shuffled letter like 'DARAR'> into a word", which depends on memory and vocabulary. Try taking an IQ test in a language you only have intermediate level of understanding.
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>>566017
I've administered IQ tests.

>If the IQ test you are familiar with has words in it then its not mensa approved and nobody takes it seriously.
I used Weschler's. It's one of the most respected.

And the study I was refering wasn't an IQ test itself. It used pictures and was meant to see what kind of criteria people with different backgrounds used to categorize objects. People with formal education, all around the world, think differently from people without, even if they are closely related. Most illiterate people can't even get into formal logic (stuff like syllogisms concerning nonsense).
>>
>>566009
I didn't put words in your mouth. You say modern germans are genetically different to old germanic tribes, which can be the result of either mixing or evolution. Given that you are a racist i assumed you weren't defending race mixing. So, which one is it? Did race mixing lead to intelectually superior germans or was it evolution?
>>
>>566009
>>Stop using science to try and make sense of my worthless major!

Science is a process involving experiments and numerical observations which test conjectures. This does not have any relevance to IQ test surveys. Science is also incapable of making judgement values and has no relevance to the argument that this or that major should be pursued.

In this case that major happens to be mathematics.
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>>566009
Anon, unless you're a psychology major, I doubt you understand what IQ is. Pulling a chart off Google doesn't count as "using science".
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>>566014
That's my point, anon. Romans considered them retarded savages because, as i said "culturalist and racial explanations are always post hoc rationalizations", not because they were actually inferior.
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>>566039
That's not a valid IQ test,did you even read the second line of my post?
>>566041
Have you considered iliterate people are iliterate because they are intellectually inferior biologically? its 2016 (I mean come on people.jpg) there is no excuse left.
>>566044
> Given that you are a racist
I will stop replying to you now,but yes I implied mixing and migration lead to modern germans which is true whatever you like it or not.
>>566047
>Psychology
I'm a doctor,I think I know a little about human biology,more than a Freudian pseudoscientist mind you.
>>
>>565834
Basically, it's easy to harvest wood, fruit, meat, and farmland from the rainforest - but once you take the wood out and make the farmland, it's not a rainforest anymore. The soil you get is great at first but significantly declines in agricultural yield over time IIRC. So the highest profits came from clearcut/slash/burn/farm/move cycles, which aren't conducive to growing long-term wealth for the workers. Workers are most of the people, so if life is kinda suck for them life is kinda suck for the nation.

>>565837
I'm seeing reports that Haiti and the Dominican Republic had fairly similar economies around 1950. Since Haiti didn't just suddenly turn black in 1950, I suspect that the actual cause of the difference is Papa Doc mismanaging the government. Authoritarian states suffer from the problem that whenever an idiot gets put in charge of something important they can arrest anyone who doesn't appreciate their greatness, and political patronage=lots of rich idiots running ministries they don't understand as their personal piggybanks.
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>>566079

maybe Haiti was incapable of modernization while DR still had potential
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>>566084
Or DR experienced European migration after the world wars.
>>
>>566073
>dismisses psychology as "Freudian pseudoscientist"
>uses IQ in arguments

Come on man, at least try and pretend you're not making this up as you go along.

Also, blunt question: do you think white people, or a certain tribe/ethnicity/whatever of white people, are innately genetically superior to, let's say, Africans? A straightforward answer would be appreciated.
>>
>>566090

It's quite a small island

at any rate, a good immigration policy is part of a successfully run country
>>
>>566017
> then its not mensa approved
Good thing nobody takes Mensa seriously.
>>
>>566073
>Have you considered iliterate people are iliterate because they are intellectually inferior biologically?
I didn't imply the study was done in 2016.

I said these differences existed between people that were closely related (same villages, same tribes).

These sort of trans-cultural studies usually target people that are less immersed in global culture for the purpose of comparison. Many of them don't have access to formal education, some receive the bare-bones. Nonetheless, those that do receive formal education usually have close relatives that didn't and these cases are useful for study.
>>
>>566073
Who did they mix with to become superior? Also, you may want to write a paper about how evolution changed retards into intellectually superior people in something like 50 generations, you may win a nobel prize.

While i'm at it, psychology isn't psychoanalysis.

>this guy actually thinks he's some paladin of science
>>
>>566093
>dismisses psychology as "Freudian pseudoscientist"
>uses IQ in arguments
Psychiatrists use IQ tests,are you saying psychiatrists are not men of science?
Superior in what way? intelligence? pretty much,living under the scorching african sun ? no
If you disagree please use logic and facts to support your outrageous claim.
>>566111
>Who did they mix with to become superior? Also, you may want to write a paper about how evolution changed retards into intellectually superior people in something like 50 generations, you may win a nobel prize.
You are putting words in my mouth again,who said something about evolution or superiority again? you are trying to dismiss me a stormfag with strawman arguments,fuck off.
>>
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looks like they didn't hit that orange sweet spot

tough luck
>>
>>566123
>Psychiatrists use IQ tests,are you saying psychiatrists are not men of science?
Psychiatrists, historically, have more of a Freudian bend. Freud himself was a doctor of medicine.

Psychometrics, and cognitivism in general, branched from behaviorism, a school of psychology that opposed followers of Freud and Jung and tried to "scientify" psychology by reducing all of it to the study of observable behavior. Cognitivism, and psychometrics, came later.

Most research is done by experimental psychologists, not psychiatrists.
>>
>>566123
Well, it will be easier if you tell me where do modern germans come from and what their relation to old germanic tribes is according to you.
>who said something about superiority
You said "high IQ people". Since high is a relative term it implies superiority. Not to mention you explicitly used "intellectually inferior biologically" in your discussions. Come on, anon, let's be honest here.
>>
If you want to understand why Brazil failed read Douglass North.

Bye.
>>
>>566148

what's so radical about some groups of people being collectively smarter than other groups anyway
>>
>>566148
The way you are using the word superior in your posts is not as you mentioned in relation of the quality of their IQ but a crude attempt to dismiss my side of the argument by linking it to nazi ideology which leads me to bail out of this thread because of the futility of arguing with people that believe everyone who disagrees with them is literally Hitler.This is not reddit nor your humanities college,I'm not obligated to humor your prejudice and childish disposition towards cotroversial(socially)ideas.
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>>566196
Not necessarily nazi, but you did present yourself as a social Darwinist.

That anon didn't put words in your mouth, he just used your terms.

Please have intellectual integrity and stick to your guns or withdraw your claim.
>>
>>566148
Oh, man, you triggered him >>566196.
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>>566190
I'm just pointing out that diverse groups of people have believed they were smarter than other groups of people depending on their relative levels of development, and that the same groups of people have been in both the smart and the stupid sides at different points in history. I exemplified this with the germans, and the anon has been unable to provide an explanation that wasn't extremely vague.

>>566196
>i use the term "intellectually inferior biologically" but i get offended if people use the term "superior" in the discussion
That's pretty stupid, anon.
>>
>>566073
>Have you considered iliterate people are iliterate because they are intellectually inferior biologically? its 2016 (I mean come on people.jpg) there is no excuse left.

If you, your parents, and your grandparents had never attended school, would you be literate? Available social services or lack thereof can hurt literacy without the need for any innate biological inferiority. I'll demonstrate this with a simple question of the sort you might find on an IQ test:

Verdeel deze woorden in twee groepen:

Бop. Змијa. Бyбaшвaбa.Бaмбyc. Хpacт. Aлгe. Кoзa. Лacицa. Macлaчaк. Кopњaчa. Peпa.

(Two different languages because I wanted to demonstrate both the result of a BAD education and the result of NO education - the first is close enough to English that it's reasonable to expect you to puzzle it out without resorting to translation software.)

>>565984
>Why is human biology such a taboo in the study of human groups? this is Orwellian.
Really? How long did you spend in a reeducation camp for posting racist theories?

The reason it's taboo is because when low-IQ types learn that biology can influence cognition, they then come up with dumbshit theories that explain how their favourite race is the BESTEST EVER. Nazi propaganda against Jews described them as cleverer than Aryans, and therefore an exploitative evil to be purged from the German gene pool; Nation of Islam religious doctrine claims that whites are an artificially-created extra-clever race and therefore exploitative and evil.
>>
>>554081
>a lot of resources
that is it
when colony, we were heavily exploited by portugal, and nowadays we only get money from commodities
thats a really hard question to answer, there's probably hundreds of reasons
>>
O SUL É O MEU PAÍS

S
U
L

É

O

M
E
U

P
A
Í
S
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>>566226

>I'm just pointing out that diverse groups of people have believed they were smarter than other groups of people depending on their relative levels of development, and that the same groups of people have been in both the smart and the stupid sides at different points in history. I exemplified this with the germans, and the anon has been unable to provide an explanation that wasn't extremely vague.

That may be true, but it doesn't disqualify the possibility. There is evidence in favor of a biological basis as well and I personally think it's a synthesis of biological and cultural situation.

Also, it's very difficult to try to compare the situation of ancient bronze age civilizations versus today, a globalized information age world that I would say is much more heavily predicated on intellectual ability. It's kind of hard to try to shoehorn a 1:1 comparison.
>>
>>566250
>>566250
>south is my country
>gets more money than it gives
>proud to be white, at most
>>
>>566217
Sorry I have better things to do in a saturday evening that talking to a brickwall,for example masturbating to pictures of my ex and baking a pizza.
>>566226
Intelligence does not make you a superior being,the ability to adapt and survive your enviroment determines your success as a living being.
You're trying to pass me as a "durp master race hurp" stormfag because it suits your argument.
>>566229
So you're saying some people have potential but the circumstances keep them down,like Japan in the past, and when the circumstances are in their favor they can prosper.
Congratulations you agree with me,meanwhile people and societies with all the right circumstances fail because they had no potential whithin them.
Do you understand now?
Also valid IQ test have no linguistic component,not a single fucking word besides the instructions that can be given orally by the test giver.
>>566229
>really? How long did you spend in a reeducation camp for posting racist theories?
If this was social media I could lose my job and in some countries get arrested (uk)
The reason biology in history is taboo is because of afrocentrists and nordicists? that's a new one,never heard that excuse before.
>>
>>566301
>Intelligence does not make you a superior being,the ability to adapt and survive your enviroment determines your success as a living being.
Intelligence is often defined as the ability to adapt behavior to the environment.
>>
>>566305
You're god damn right it but its the ability to adapt your behavior not your physical characteristics.
>>
Populism and nationalism are the two biggest factors for failure.
Around 80% of the population is opposed to privatization, and thinks americans are the bad guys. Most of the population thinks social democracy is a right wing concept.
Also, we have absurd labour laws, much like France, but without a productive population.
There are some other factors, land was always expensive due to arbitrary government laws , while labour was relatively cheap.

Also Delfim Netto, which is the most important brazilian economist of the last 60 years, managed to simply break the country for three decades after three years of "Economic Miracle". Our president loves him to the heart.
>>
>>566305

and if two groups of people adapt and develop in two different environments they're going to end up with two different characteristics based off of natural demands
>>
>>557631
Why would we all get fucked? I mean, aside from medication that comes from the forest, which we can synthesize anyway, why?
The Taiga and Canadian Boreal Forests produce more than 8 times the oxygen required by the world.
>>
>>566327
>The Taiga and Canadian Boreal Forests produce more than 8 times the oxygen required by the world.
da fugg

Oceans produce 70% of all oxygen.

How much oxygen do we require?
>>
>>566268
We don't have to go all the way back to the bronze age anon, just go one or two centuries back and the japanese and southeast asians were considered intellectually inferior. Even regarding germans you don't need to go all the way back to the bronze age. Every country country that developed magically went from being considered inferior to superior.

It's similar to the weberian correlation of development and religion. Weber correlates protestantism with capitalism and culturalists say that catholicism is unfit for development, then southern europe develops and catholicism is suddenly good for development. When southeast asia was underdeveloped, culturalists claimed it was due to confucianism, which supposedly promoted bureaucracy and social rigidity. After the asian miracle, confucianism was claimed to favour development thanks to its emphasis on thrift and education.

Long story short, it is not impossible that racial or cultural explanations have some truth in them, but it is a mere possibility, while the bias of developed countries to rationalize the lack of development of the rest due to inferiority in some all-encompassing factor is well documented.
>>
Leftism.
>>
>>566327
Brazil should obliterate its tropical biomes,right now a disease carried by the dengue mosquito that causes anencephaly in fetuses has arrived in south america from africa and its thriving in Brazil risking to spread all over,I dont want my life quality to be on risk because greenpeace bullies Brazil to keep taht disease breeding ground cesspool.Though a disease that can pretty much make people who cannot aford advanced healthcare to reproduce could make wonders for the region.
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>>566335
Smart post.
>>
>>566335

How would you say that factor into a national policy

For example, the situation in Europe

There are those willing to say that it's entirely feasible to simply import masses of people from failed and underwhelming states in order to replace or buff the fertility rates of the native population. They cite racial and national differences in cognitive ability as primarily, if not entirely, functions of education and not lack of potential.

Now, if their premise is correct, everything goes normally. If not, you now have a very large sub-class of permanently underwhelming people draining public resources, contributing to increased crime, and shaping your national policy in terms of government, likely for the worse. Is it really progressive to stake the future of your country on this wager?
>>
>>566335
> the japanese and southeast asians were considered intellectually inferior.
According to propaganda and the opinion of the masses.
How about we come back to the present for a moment shall we? is there a high IQ country that's underdeveloped? yes ,its called China,its poor but nobody considers it a country of barbarian but a country that has the potential to become great despite its troubles.
The difference between correlating religion with development and INTELLIGENCE with development should be self evident to you.
>>
>>566365
There are high IQ countries that were once relatively undeveloped compared to countries that are now low IQ. Not long ago enough for there to be significant genetic differences.
>>
>>566380
Earlier in the thread I talked about IQ being the human capital potential,it can be undermined by circumstances but given an oportunity they will prosper, on the other side of the coin there are low IQ countries with high material potential but low human capital potential and thus never develop.
>>
>>563271
Dont forget about indonesia, malaysia, etc
>>
>>566392
What circumstances were undermining europe when it was inferior to the arab world? How did low potential people like the arabs have such a relatively great civilization? What circumstances were undermining korea when it had an african tier economy just half a century ago? What was undermining spain in relation to, say, argentina, an inferior country that fared much better a century ago? I could ask a million questions like this.
Pure rationalizations.
>>
>>566416
>What circumstances were undermining europe when it was inferior to the arab world?
The fall of the biggest empire known to man?
>What circumstances were undermining korea when it had an african tier economy just half a century ago?
Isolated from the world in a sandwitch between two giantic rival nations.
>What was undermining spain in relation to, say, argentina, an inferior country that fared much better a century ago?
Argentina 100 years ago was indistinct from Europe population wise and had loads of untapped land to boot.
>>
>>566301
>So you're saying some people have potential but the circumstances keep them down,like Japan in the past, and when the circumstances are in their favor they can prosper.
>Congratulations you agree with me,meanwhile people and societies with all the right circumstances fail because they had no potential whithin them.

Thing is, I'm considering Papa Doc Duvalier's misrule a circumstance and I think you're considering him a lack of potential.

>Do you understand now?
>Also valid IQ test have no linguistic component,not a single fucking word besides the instructions that can be given orally by the test giver.

The IQ tests I've taken have all had significant linguistic components. Now, AFAIK the people trying to analyse racial or regional IQ variations usually DO try to make their tests cultureblind, but they don't necessarily succeed. How well do you think someone with no background in plane geometry and little in paper use would do on Raven's Progressive Matrices?

>>>566229 (You)
>If this was social media I could lose my job
Sorry, but the bossman oppresses you over lots of shit, not just race. Try posting that most people don't need or want the shit your company sells and you can get better stuff made in China for 10% less and see how long you're still employed.

> and in some countries get arrested (uk)
Not unless you're shitposting a lot harder than anything I see in this thread. I've seen UK citizens saying worse under their real identities without being arrested.

Hell, you get arrested for what I've seen in this thread and I'd have to use my professional identity to say that the arrest was shit.
>>
I blame leftism
>>
>>566430
>The fall of the biggest empire known to man?
>Isolated from the world in a sandwitch between two giantic rival nations.
There was no external force undermining europe, so i don't see how this is an argument. In their own hands they ended up worse than inferior arabs. And korea wasn't isolated post ww2.
Basically if the country that now has the highest IQ was more developed, your theory is confirmed, but if it isn't your theory has (irrelevant) had hoc political explanations. Quite unscientific for a paladin of science like yourself.
>Argentina 100 years ago was indistinct from Europe population wise and had loads of untapped land to boot.
Argentina in the beginning of the XX century was as european as in the 1970s, and spain was pretty much the same, so you're not explaining anything. You're going to have to come up with some other rationalization.
And you missed one question.

All this started with you claiming that "Human biology is what determines development". Turns out that human biology determines development except when it doesn't.
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>>566472
>>
>>566474
>Argentina in the beginning of the XX century was as european as in the 1970s
You're fucking ignorant mate.
>>
>>566497
I'm an european descendant argentinian so you'll have a hard time with this one anon.
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Communist sabotage since the Old Republic at least, culminating in the Foro de São Paulo running the continent. Vargas was also really shitty.
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>>566493
A shit job becomes desirable when your boss in a collective!
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>>566493
To English speakers, this is a history textbook approved by our government that paints capitalism as semi-slavery and socialism as an utopia in which everyone is happy all the time.
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>>566503
I'm argentine too.
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>>566519
Tenés alguna fuente para decir que el % de (descendientes de) europeos era diferente a principios y a mediados de siglo? Porque por lo que recuerdo de haber estudiado de estructura social argentina no había cambios significativos.
>>
>people actually think that the colour of one's skin matters at all
>people actually try to use it as an argument
I pity you guys.
>>
>>566537
>Porque por lo que recuerdo de haber estudiado de estructura social argentina no había cambios significativos.
¿Segun quien ? la inmigracion del interior y de los paises limitrofes cambio la composicion etnica de lo que se considera argentina centro.
Esas cosas no te enseñan en sociales,no debes ni saber que fue el aluvion zoologico.
>>
>>566544
>Skin colour is all there is to human variation
Remove yourself from the genepool your ignorant peasant
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>>566562
Human physical variations, in comparison to the variations inside other species, are too small to make a difference.
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>>566569
Not really.
>>
>>566569
That's a political statement far from the scientifical reality.
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>>566554
Acordate que dije 70s. La información era de censos, salvo que me tires un dato duro le creo más a mi recuerdo de la info posta que a tu percepción (que por otra parte seguramente es irrelevante hablando de 40 años atrás). Si encuentro la info que tenía la posteo.
>>
>>566577
Los censos que dicen que argentina es 97% europea? raja de aca gil
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>>566571
>>566575
The genetic difference between individual humans is, on average, of 0,1%.
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>>566592
And between a human and a banana is 50%
Don't post about genetics if you dont understand the scale of 0.1%
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>>566586
Qué ganas de hablar al pedo tenemos eh.
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>>566505
I agree, though Olavo is also really shitty.
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>>566595
99,9% similar is still pretty high, anon. There are physical differences, but they are just too minor to use an excuse for lack of economic development.
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>>554747
>entirely in the hands of the coffee barons
>what is cafe com leite
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>>566622
Its not,its well documented than people can have distinct intelectual capabilities.
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>>557736
>germany before wwi
nice meme
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>>566090
Dr invited Euros in and Jew refugees. Also they had 1 Cold War batshit insane ruler while Haiti had 2 one right after the other.
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>>566641
People, yes. Anyone. It is not restricted to race. Two white persons can, and almost surely will have, different mental capabilities. Same thing between a black person and an asian person or anyone else. What I am saying is that minor mental differences between individuals are not an excuse for why some nations fail. There is absolutely no indication that white people in general are more mentally capable of developing a country than blacks, if based solely on intelligence and civility.
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>>566341
They were shit Under right wing governments
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>>566686
Government is the problem.
If state interference was not so big, maybe Brazil could have followed a path similar to the US's.
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>>566682
dem mental gymnastics,reminds me of fundies with their "micro evolution =/= macroevolution"
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Can you spell the magic words?
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>>554247
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>>560787
Their definition of white is quite debatable
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>>564346
>>564330
>>564246
You're both right. Brazil is much more unitary due to it's geographical nature of being a coast w just a deep forest to penetrate behind it and then there's all of Spanish America which was truly far flung and was far too large to be administered and consolidated into one national identity.
>>
Hue.
>>
Niggers.
Cut the country into two, and leave southern Brazil to rule for its own
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>>566505
Fuck off, Vargas was who kept this shithole afloat
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>>566505
Before Vargas Brazil was just a bigass farm
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>>555084
>>557478
>It's really nice to walk a round and see a full pallette of humanity; a true melting pot
Multiculturalism works in brazil because they don't come from a few countries, go to the same place and ghettoize, there are small numbers of people from dozens of different countries and everyone gets melted down and mixed together in the favelas.

In other words it works because the do the complete opposite of what liberals tell them to.
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>>554098
worst excuse i have ever heard
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>>558419
>Anglicanism
>Different from Catholicism any significant way
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>>560787
You have to understand what they define as white is quite different from W. European standards
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>>557736
>New Zealand
>homogeneous
it's like 30% non-white though
Thread replies: 295
Thread images: 29
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