Sure, we've done the 4 years of whatever language in the American educational system bullshit, but Im looking for a REAL reason to learn a language, despite the chances of me ever going to that country being close to none.
It sounds fun, but why do it?
That's why it's hard. When I've gone to central America for extended periods a lot of Spanish comes back to me and I improve a lot. Once I go home it atrophies quickly. I don't have the mind for language though.
So my answer is it is very hard to stay in practice and stay motivated for me. Yu may be better
yes, in business knowing another language opens up a lot of opportunities, coupled with other skills it could mean the difference between being stuck in a cubicle and becoming a partner in an enterprise
if you are a native english speaker, it comes down to your intrests really.I am learning russian atm (kinda stopped, cause i am turkish and dont think russian is going to be a useful language after recent events) cause i wanted to be able to sing the soviet style songs like a native speaker.My brother learned japanese just so he can watch anime when it came up and rather not wait for the subtitles.I also had a couple of friends who learned specific languages like greak and whatnot because of their usual holiday destinations.
there is also a strange sense of honour within yourself once you manage to talk fluently in 3 different languages.Whenever i feel down at something and feel like i cannot do it the fact that at the back of my mind im thinking ''Screw it i learned 2 languages, i can do this!'' helps alot
but if nothing really intrest you enough to bother learning a language, expanding your grammar is also a pretty good choice,learning old words that not alot of people use these days or certain artistic terms and whatnot will make you look smart infront of a business kind of view, which is almost as good as having a second language and requires quarter the effort.Just buy a dictionary and read
No one gives a shit about it because it's a prescriptive rule, not one that was ever actually part of the English language. People have been starting sentences with conjunctions for as long as English has been written.
You clearly have some sort of interest in a language.
Put it this way, I grew up in a country who's first language is English if you grow up in one region, but not if you grow up in another. Unless I plan to move out of the UK I'm not likely to need any languages other than those two, but if I learn one, I can move out and get a job, or I can stay in the UK and chat over the internet to bros from over the world.
My point is, there's nothing to lose from learning a language, but if you don't learn one, and then later decide you wanna live somewhere else, you're gunna have a harder time
I've come to the conclusion over the years that the rule is just taught to children because of how enticing it is to put "but" at the beginning of every sentence. Essays become nothing but strings of "buts".
>already speak my native language
>speak English fluently because it's lingua franca and it's pisspoor easy
>learn one or two more European languages because why not
Burgers will never know this feel
>never have any communication problems in America since everyone here knows the same language
Maybe some Spanish is helpful if you live on the border, but even the dumbest cholo here knows at least passable English
I live in Texas, so Spanish is pretty useful to me. It also taught me more about verb conjugation and made me think about how time is perceived in relation to verb tense. Additionally, learning more vocab gives names to ideas that English lacks. I guess if you live somewhere where only English is spoken, it wouldn't be too practical.
Do you want to fight centaurs and giants every time you travel?
If you are asking this, then you shouldn't learn another language.
People learn languages either because they want to (you don't) or they think it would help them in their profession, travels etc, which again you don't think so.
Language is an extremely important part of culture, so it helps immensely in understanding a foreign culture
Business opportunities, travel options, better availability to more information, more people to talk to, and better understanding of other cultures, history and politics.
Even if a third of earth could speak english there is still two thirds who can't
It's fun and it lets you think in different ways, plus a lot of languages are beautiful. This is especially true for languages out of your family - try some American language like Piraha or Nuxálk or Classical Maya, they are great (not much material and you'll usually have to learn scientific papers, but it's worth it).
I think we burgers get unfairly shat on for this. Canadians, Ruskies, Japs, Brits, Chinese etc. Most of them don't speak more than their native language. Borders obviously play a role but honestly I think it's because almost all of the media they'll encounter is in their native tongue.
I'm bi-lingual, grew up that way. Live in America and speak both burger and krout. Tbh, no it's not worth it. It's come in handy a few times, but it was more a of a novelty than anything. The effort and energy it would take to become fluent in another language as an adult would really just be too much.
My mom has been living and working in America for 20 years, and her english, while good, is really limited. She has trouble expressing complex thoughts quite frequently, and I have the same problem with German.
Well for one I live in Southern California so learning Spanish is beneficial for several reasons. It helped me in many social situations and when I was a teen it found it easier to get my mexican friend's families to like me.
I'm asian and I think I'm ambiguous enough to pass off as any ethnicity that falls under it. I haven't learned them fully but learning formalities in certain languages such as cantonese or khmer in my local case gives me discounts at asian restaurants and markets.
>speak french and english
>spend a couple years learning korean
>still kinda suck at it
>one day randomly get linked an article in dutch
>can decipher it somewhat
>start to feel like shit because I spent all this time learning korean but I could be speaking 2 more european languages instead
Protip stick to the same linguistic families
Learning german made me motivated to go to germany, and I did it twice (first for four weeks, then for eight weeks). They included some of the best memories of my life. Even though I graduated, I feel like it was an important part of my growth as a person. Which makes it worth it to me.
It depends, I live in Belgium (motherlanguage dutch) right on the border of France and Walloon so it's very much needed for me to learn french as 50% of the cucks that walk on the street speaks french, and as I was young I learned myself English cuz gamez and internetz.
>Protip stick to the same linguistic families
yeah, but now it feels like I'm learning 8 different dialects of the same two base languages.
You always find a way to be depressed about your accomplishments
Former interpreter for the US Army here.
Yes, it is important.
In the military, a contingent where a majority of soldiers can speak Arabic and Pashto would save the US Army a lot of money. No need for interpreters, but more need for teachers.
The failure of our part in Iraq was because no one at the Coalition Provisional Authority speaks Arabic. When I was an MP at the Green Zone in Baghdad, I've managed to spot Iraqi interpreters bullshitting to CPA officials because CPA people are so dumb that they'd believe anything an interpreter would say no matter how false it is.
Languages are artifacts; manufactured by histories lost and alien to your own that none the less experienced meaningful, useful, events with profound and invisible reach even into domestic English.
To learn another language is to take a broader view of meaning and thus a broader view of history and current events.
Influenza for example, is 15th century Italian.
Though derived from a now dead (or transformed) culture, it is rooted in the understanding that the first pandemic was caused by the "influence" of the stars. While this understanding is abandoned under the eyes of those that examine it, even 1st world modern English speaking culture struggles with unreasonable and seemingly unthinking resistance to vaccination.
Pull up the roots of a language, look at it from the outside in, and you will see the traumas of that culture's childhood and the causes that bedevil and impede it's progress; proof against reason for reasons unsaid but not unfelt.
Agreed wholeheartedly if possible without loss of protection; the lesser of two evils if it is not.
Vaccination itself is a form of primitive communication; to speak to the cells of the body in the language of life and entice them to resist and slay a harmful invader.
>learn some portugese and french later drop them because fuck them
>learn motherfucking latin for glorious mental gains
I've started stuyding Afrikaans because ayy lmao lel
English I went to Murrika for work and spent some time there, plus the internet, random lessons at a certain point, an an insignificant amount in school. French also in school.
Poortuguese because I was dating some Huezilian girl, but I fucking hate it sounds retarded.
I learned spanish with Duolingo, listening to the Michel Thomas language course, watching movies and reading El Pais. Cemetified the knowledge by walking the way of Saint James.
Latin is still a part of the curriculum in Italian schools, so I learned it there. My father is a huge latinist and among the first ones to introduce the Oerberg Method for learning latin (Which basically amounts to "Learn it like you'd learn any other living language"), he also knows the nigga that brough the method in Italy and opened an academy nearby Rome in some villa where people from all over the world, both laics and clerics, come to learn latin.
Afrikaans I've downloaded some stupid app and I listen to Jack Parow.
Yes it is, but when you learn be sure to think of the future. I plan on studying Arabic in a year from now so that I can communicate with the Muslims and Arabic people who come to Western society due to the refugee crisis. I may also use thee skills to read the untranslated Qur'an.
I advise everyone learn Arabic for our future migrant and refugee friends from the Middle East.
>Go to a country
>Can't speak for shit past hello, yes and no
>Feel like an outsider
>Only have access to designated tourist stuff
>Go to a country you speak the language in
>Can speak to locals
>Can enjoy things as a local
>Vastly superior experience
>Staff in bars, restaurants or other places will often be more nice to you because you can speak to them
You tell me OP
I second this, monolinguals are trash
bonuses to learning a language
>can enjoy foreign music more and appreciate the content w/o translating
>can read new books
>can read books you could read previously in english in a new way
>can read books how the author intended
>can put you academically farther ahead of others, looks impressive
>can get you siced by other native speakers
>can get you new jobs translating/teaching language
>can get you laid w bitches who find it impressive
>can get you laid w people who don't speak english
>can get you many more opportunities in life
it's easy as fuck to learn a language now that iphones exist
you can learn the basics by putting your smartphone into a language and then just translating basics
also duolingo is pretty nifty if you wanna learn a major language
then watch media in native tongue
I was taught German for seven years. I never thought it'd come up too often, but it's actually a really handy language to have. Now I'm learning Italian. Will I ever visit Italy? Probably not, but it is handy to have for reading the stuff that hasn't been translated into English yet.
Texan here. If you don't know spanish you can't communicate with a helluva lot of people who live here. If you find yourself in a situation when you need help from a stranger (car wreck, ect) it helps to be able to talk to people.The quickest way out of most problems is clear communication.
I own a Masonry company and most of my crew speaks little english, but because I can communicate clearly with them we opperate as an efficient team and they make me and themselves lots of money. I've never hired a someone who spoke english as a first language who worked half a hard, or gave half a shit.
When you learn a new language your world and your opportunities double.
Also I'm a college dropout who works construction but I learned a second language, and I tend to look down on people who can't as to lazy and dumb to try.
If you live in the Americas it's probably useful to Know English and Spanish or Portuguese (learning one makes it easy to learn the other).
If you live in Europe it would probably be useful to know English and to learn Arabic, and If you live in Asia it would be useful to know Mandarin Chinese. Of course there are many pluri-ethnic parts of the world out there where other languages might be considered more useful.
Lol you'll have to kill the owner of every large hotel, restraunt and construction buisness in the state after me. I pay my guys 15-20 an hour. Because they are worth it. Find me a white boy who works as hard as them and as fast and I'll hire him too, but ive hired and fired around 30 guys since I started, and every one of the white guys can't show up on time, stay sober, and work hard for 8 hours in the Texas sun 5 days a week.
I'll hire the best man for the job, I don't give a damn about your politics or what color they are. And if best guys speak Latvian I'll learn to speak latvian.
Arabic learner here, I tell you that it usually takes a good year and a half to two years of hard studying to get literary Arabic down and communicate in a non-troglodyte level. If you learn it, you will gain access to the Quran (obviously) which is actually a pretty interesting read to me right now, a fuckton of philosophy not available in other languages, amazing and highly eloquent poetry and prose, quality opinion pieces on Arab news sites (there is a great amount of intellectual material available), advantages based on shit happening now, and also a lexical springboard into learning Hebrew, Aramaic, Ethiopic, Farsi (for damn sure), Urdu, Pashto, Turkish (especially Ottoman Turkish for you history types), Maltese, Malay, Indonesian, (those two a bit less) and whatever languages lie in their spectrums.
Now dialect, on the other hand lol... that takes quite some more time; I still don't have good proficiency in it.
I wanna learn German(heritage) and Japanese(there's books I want to read that are being translated at a snails pace) but I won't have time to take a class for the near future. How rough is it to learn a language on your own with some pirated textbooks and anki flashcard decks?
For Arabic learners:
Look up "msa grammar pdf" and click the first pdf link (w/ rahnuma as domain name); it's the best one I've come across, because the ~18th century ones on Internet Archive are too complicated IMO
-Look up "hans wehr pdf", download it, and learn the concept of the trilateral root system; this will help you find vocabulary words. Learn the alphabet too obviously lol
-For advanced people, use this link:
It gives you the Hans Wehr, Lane's Lexicon (where much of Hans Wehr came from, an autistic, positive honey-boo-boo WHORE of a lexical aid), other dictionaries, Quranic dictionaries, and much more, all on one screen; you can search all of them at once by typing the root in question into the search bar.
-Go to almaany.com or get the app; it is an amazing dictionary (works Arabic-English and vice versa) too.
-As for English-Arabic dictionaries, I'd stick to almaany.com, but if you want a print version, the Oxford Arabic wasn't bad for me, not as comprehensive.
***Don't trust Google Translate for hi-fi sentence translation. Most of the time, it does help to provide the gist or for quick lookups of single words or sometimes phrases, but is NOT good for advanced meanings. Careful, it can become a crutch and detract from higher comprehension very quickly with the wrong habits.
I'd stick to improving your grammar and using almaany.com to improve your translation skills, just use google for minuscule, on-the-fly shit tbqh.
-Learn the history, geography, and culture of the Middle East; this will provide an INVALUABLE bedrock of context to sift through ambiguous situations.
Continued on my next post, stay tuned...
I'll just tell you what I have on my bookcase that can be downloaded for free:
-The Quran. This will help you a lot in getting to know the grammar of Arabic and how flexible it can be (especially with i'rab and verbal nouns). The roots used in the Quran will help you understand the deeper meanings that can't be understood by only reading Arabic news. Many words for higher concepts can also be understood. It also serves as a common resource for all medieval Arab philosophy and for other high reading.
- جواهر الادب (The Jewels of Literature)
This book exhaustively (very, very much so) covers the foundations and the main contributions of Arab literature.
-طوق الحمامة (The Ring of the Dove)
A seminal treatise on the nature of love by a Spanish courtier. Chapters are divided according to the traits of love.
-Don't forget the Thousand and One Nights. It is the foundational work of Arabic fiction, but to my knowledge has not been translated completely into English (It comprises of literally 1001 stories and some other scene-setting ones, so it was ~10 volumes when I saw it on a shelf).
This site actually seems to have most, if not all stories, albeit in a shitty format:
- Look up some poets and find their works (in a library, the titles for these are usually formatted as [(insert Arabic name) ديوان]
Get someone famous like Khalil Gibran or Ibn Qays, but I would also suggest getting a random diwan of a poet you don't know; you never know how much work and life someone put into expressing themselves just to have their precious work stowed on the ass end of a dusty bookshelf.
Damn man, I might as well just make an Arabic resources starter pack picture the way the religious discussions do their shit...
Any other questions?
One of the main difficulties with Pashto is how varied its dialect continuum is. Since the Pashtuns are highly tribal in structure and Pashto was originally a tribal language, the evolution of a standard register has occurred mostly in the past century (Pashto was not recognized as a language of government and education until the 1930s); BBC made a Pashto outlet only in 1981. There are many consonants that don't resonate well in the English tongue, and those vary widely depending on dialect. The biggest bane of learning Pashto is the virtual lack (there is a Pashto poetic tradition though) of native Pashto literature or Pashto language references; all that shit mostly happened recently, and a lot of it due to the defense industry's need to understand contemporary culture after the muhajideen and the modernization of parts of Afghan society.
>live in dublin, everyone speaks english
>raised speaking english yet taught irish by shite teachers all throughout school
>only know a few words today
>if i want to speak it fluently (not just from study) i have to go live in the west, certain parts of the countryside or in a fucking ghaeltacht
I alternate between learning Hebrew or Greek
On one side I can lecture Torah and other sacred books right on the essence on the other hand I can read original gospels and I also have to a great Greek translation of old testament... Hard decision.
Every language is a different set of eyes on the world. Knowing (not just learning) another language lets you see the world in a different way. I am a native-english speaker, but growing up learned French (in school) and a bit of Swedish (from relatives). I have lived in Germany for the past 6 years now and am fairly good with German (I won't claim perfectly fluent though). With German and English, I can passively understand a lot of Dutch, too. In fact, all the Germanic languages (English is the most divergent) I can pick out the parallels fairly easily.
Although it's a bit outdated and disproven in some regards, so should be taken with a grain of salt, check out the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis for an intro into the idea of one's language affecting one's cognition.
You'd think so...
It depends if there's an otherwise full sentence following the conjunction. If not, it's better avoided. If so, it's allowable. It's generally good advice to avoid it though, as it's often unnecessary. In formal writing environments, it is still forbidden. In spoken language (of which all writing is a derivative of) , it's fairly common to begin a thought with a conjunction.
That's because your mom is stupid and/or lazy. No offence. I know plenty of people who learned both to the levels of fluency in about 5-7 years (not myself yet, not quite).
According to studies of language learning, you need an actual, and very very good, reason to learn one, or you literally physiologically can't. It's such a mental effort that your brain and body will literally fight against you. Even people that have literally no choice but to learn a language (like an immigrant for example) only learn it to the minimal level that they need to function, so they have a limited vocabulary and accent and so on, because it's so difficult.
People who are multilingual because they were raised that was don't remember how impossibly difficult it was to learn their languages, because learning languages and memory is actually a linked process neurologically, so they vastly vastly underestimate the difficulty of it. They will get offended at this post and angrily deny it.
Then there's the problem of retention. You can literally spend years studying a language, or even know it very well from childhood, but if you don't practice it regularly your ability in it declines and eventually you completely forget it. It's just such an effort for your brain to retain it that it starts dumping it whenever it sees that it can.
Of course many people can and do learn other languages as adults, and some even claim to know half a dozen or more, but if you actually investigate them studies find that they are not fluent in those languages, and usually possess only a basic to intermediate understanding, rarely an advanced one that could qualify as fluency.
TL;DR: Those that do learn a language well are either very highly motivated to learn it because they fall in love with it or absolutely need it for their passion, and they continue to 'learn' it for the rest of their lives through constant practice, or they are ridiculously overconfident about it and a few years into study they are ridiculously stubborn and from those two effects they master it. Sometimes it's both.
Essential read: http://www.zompist.com/whylang.html
I wasn't raised multilingually at all, but can now speak 3 languages fairly well (English native, plus German and French -- I can bungle my way through passable Spanish and Dutch as well. I lived in India for 9 months and used to know a fair bit of basic Hindi, but that was 9 years ago now, and I've forgotten most of it). I agree that motivation is a key to learning a language. If you don't care, you simply won't put in the effort it takes, end of story. That said, I wouldn't agree it's 'difficult'. It just takes work. Some languages can be harder than others (depending on your own native language), and some people are better/quicker learners than others, but in principle almost anyone can learn another language. Thinking of it as 'impossibly, vastly difficult' is already setting up an unnecessary mental roadblock.
The "use it or lose it" maxim is true as well. If you don't live in the area whose language you are trying to learn is spoken, you will have a lot more trouble retaining (i.e. actually using) the language. That means interacting, speaking, listening, not just reading textbooks. Immersion is best.
I will agree though that all those stupid internet "THIS MEAN LEARNED 13 LANGUAGES IN ONE YEAR! LEARN HOW YOU CAN DO IT!" are bullshit. I've seen some of those people's videos, and it seems it's mostly just a minimal number of basic intro convo, and their pronunciation is usually very shit. That is hardly 'fluent'.
Not to sound too blunt because I want to thank you for sharing your thoughts, but It would better if you could quantify your ability through something like CEFR certificates.
English - native (C2 if you insist), teach English in university.
German - C1, use it on a daily basis.
French - B2 on my last leaving cert (~1.5 years ago). But I've prob improved since then. On the other hand, I haven't spoken French for a year. But I'm still confident enough.
I've taken a few Spanish courses in my life, but never been tested. Probably A2/B1-ish.
As for Dutch, no idea, it's a made up Dutch-from-observation with German or English accidentally slipped in. Usually gets a comical smirk and they just to switch to German or English (they usually think I'm German because I can speak German, although I'm Canadian).
Thanks. And just one more question: what was your motivation for learning those languages to their respective levels?
I'm guessing if you use German on a daily basis and are C1, then you live in a German speaking country.
>(kinda stopped, cause i am turkish and dont think russian is going to be a useful language after recent events)
You may find it useful, once NATO will abandon you and Russia will reconquer Tzarogrod.
lel I bet you vote for trump as well. Love it or hate it, but the US would be on its knees if not for Mexican people.
It's thanks to them we've shitty unions and can actual provide goods and services within the US for fuck all.
Might as well learn Spanish if you plan on living for the next 40-50 years. We're taking in 1 million immigrants a year, most of those immigrants only speak Spanish.
In about 40-50 years, there will be more people who speak Spanish living in America than there are people who speak English.
>live in germany
>learn english without any effort because of movies, books, music, Internet
>mfw "bilingual" now
>know English from being raised in it
>learn French because it's so easy
>government literally throwing jobs at you
>everyone is always more friendly with you if you speak to them in their mother tongue
English Quebecer master race?
There literally no practical reason to learn a language other than english outside of certain jobs.
Learning a language just to learn it is cool I guess, but theres really no point to it. Might as well learn Klingon if you plan on speaking Hungarian or some shit like that.
Yep, many Germans speak shit english, even though everyone has to take English classes throughout primary and secondary school.
I guess it's a consequence of most media being readily available in German language.
It's still shocking to see how many people here lack even basic english skills, especially considering how toxic some aspects of German media (especially the youtube - centered "Web culture") are.
I teach English (Pädagogik) in a university here, and I'm amazed at the number of German students (i.e. not immigrants or Spätaussiedler, but 'pure Germans') who have to take B1 (sometimes even A2) level courses. They're supposed to leave highschool with B2 minimum. Even many of those who are in theory at B2 are not all that great, and have great big gaping holes in their English.