How come non-european/western/christian countries

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>>550994
personal identity is only a meme since the enlightenment.
personal identity through sex is only a meme since the 70s and the apology of the fusion of hedonism with human rights.

>>550994
19th century medical thing

>>551014
>19th century medical thing
>medical
explain

>>551019
Straightness and gayness were produced in the 19th century by the new science of medicine's need to declare normal and abnormal and separate them symptomatically. Heterosexuality was declared normal and a state, rather than adhoc practices, the state approved this and used it to remake the proletarian family (cf: Engels, 1844); in contrast homosexuality was declared abnormal and a state of being, not merely a series of practices.

Before the medicalisation of sex one fucked men and fucked women. After the medicalisation of sex one WAS a straight or WAS a queer.

Other societies haven't gone through that process, so don't have those burdens about keeping adolescent men as sex slaves diminutating your potence as a child begetter or ability to marry women for example

>>551050
Tell that to Edward II of England. Turns out, having sex with men was not considered very normal.

>>551050
I wish we could go back to the time before those sexual identities.

I want to make out with some cute guys.

>>551064
He is trolling.

>>551064
way to fuck up the thread, well done

>>550994
Modern homofaggotry is a western invention.

Here in Asia, it was either of the 3 possibilities.
1) Upgrade of a Male Friendship. They were still manly men, but just really like each other.
2) I just want to fuck boys, really. Or "I have an inclination to fuck boys today."

And then there's India.
3) I am a woman in a man's body, I must be as effeminate as christfuckingly possible.

>>551079
Besides India, also Oaxaca.

And among the Nuer, barren woman are considered fathers to their wives children (men basically divorce women when they can't bear anymore children and these women go on to live like old men).

>>551093
India's really notable because its views on homofaggotry influenced the entirety of SOutheast Asia. Hence Ladyboys and the fact that "Straight Acting Gay" is a very foreign concept to SEAsians.

>>551097
Uh.

>>551064
yes, sexual identities are awful

i don't romanticise the times before as more permissive (it was different in different times and places, not a paradise... but also not the universal bigotry progressive narratives suggest)...

but the US/globalist LGBT identities are so abstracted from community/nation/society as to be these hollow and narcissistic things... they don't seem to serve any explicit purpose to the benefit of 'everyone'... they're expressions of the selfishness everywhere else in our civilisation

being part of them divides you from everyone and everything else, except others "like you" and distant powers like governments and the media and businesses - which all use identities very cynically for their own ends (but also throw bones and benefits)

i wish it would all go away... the more i think about it, the more it all seems like a big trap... some really perfect propaganda mapping directly onto personal feelings, and supposedly revealing the truth of who and what you are

>>551063
He buggered the wrong man from the wrong tribe.

If he was buggering stable boys and busy impregnating his wife nobody would have had a problem.

>>551064
Up to 1990 there were no clear signs of "post-gay" developments outside of transsexual cultures.

>>551050
>Whig History

>>551426
What he says is basically Foucault desu

>>551475
Yep.
>Trusting anyone labeled as a modernist or postmodernist
>Ever

>>551426
>>551502
First I'm accused of Whig history then I'm accused of modernism.

Good job you buggers, may you burn in hell for your sodomy.

>>552575
The latter usually entails the former.

>>551050
Pretty sure it was considered abnormal by many different societies in many different stages before this.

Look at the ancient Greeks, it's always said that they were so supported of homosexuality but the reality was that while romantic friendships existed; men were frowned upon from carrying them on to late into life and it was absolutely taboo for it to be a man's ONLY sexual relationship. The expectation was that a man have a wife and children; but that he might have a romantic friendship from his youth as well.

>>552617
And all of their neighbors also mocked Athens pretty ruthlessly for their homosex and kiddie-fiddling.

Not that you'd ever learn that in school.

>>552650
Except Spartans and a few others practices pederasty also.

>>552617
Yeah, men were expected to carry on their bloodlines. The thread is about identity though. Read the OP? The anon you replied to was going on about how before the 19th century no one was considered an homosexual. There were just some dudes who had sex with other dudes and acceptance of these practices varied across time and place.

>>552675
>The anon you replied to was going on about how before the 19th century no one was considered an homosexual

No one was considerated straight too, that's the point.

Every single time I scroll down the catalog, I see this picture. Thanks a lot, OP

>>550994
considering how gay both greek and roman empires were i wouldn't consider homosexuality an eastern phenomenon.

>>552617
Because reproduction remained important to advancement of their civilization, and you'd be surprised to find that contemporary gay men continue to have sex with women and up till recently had a wife and family in addition to their alternative life style for sake of society and reproduction.
Anything outside reproduction was taboo, including oral and anal sex within heterosexual relationship. Abnormal was decided by the state , who with power of military and tyranny was able to decide what is normal and abnormal, as in what helps my state and what hinders it. Hedonism, personal fulfillment, and love was of little use.

>>552675
>Except Spartans and a few others practices pederasty also.
Yeah, but the Athenians were much more effeminate about it. Athens was pretty much the San Francisco of the Hellenic world.

Have you guys ever read about Siwa Oasis in Egypt?

>Siwa is of special interest to anthropologists and sociologists because of its historical acceptance of male homosexuality and even rituals celebrating same-sex marriage - traditions that the Egyptian authorities have sought to repress, with increasing success, since the early twentieth century. The practice probably arose because from ancient times unmarried men and adolescent boys were required to live and work together outside the town of Shali.
The German egyptologist Georg Steindorff explored the Oasis in 1900 and reported that homosexual relations were common and often extended to a form of marriage: "The feast of marrying a boy was celebrated with great pomp, and the money paid for a boy sometimes amounted to fifteen pounds, while the money paid for a woman was a little over one pound." Mahmud Mohamrnad Abd Allah, writing of Siwan customs for the Harvard Peabody Museum in 1917, commented that although Siwan men could take up to four wives, "Siwan customs allow a man but one boy to whom he is bound by a stringent code of obligations."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siwa_Oasis

>>550994
By your logic, everyone who masturbates should then identify as a hand-sexual

>>550994
because homosex was considered a weirder perversion or kink one might have, not your identity.

>>552617
>abnormal
"normal" is a specifically medical term. Perhaps you meant "abhorrent" or "an abomination"

>>550994
Gay/straight assume you see sex in terms of gender. Many societies, e.g. the later days of ancient Greece, were more about social standing and dominance. A 30-year-old guy fucking a 15-year-old teenager? Normal. That same guy giving oral sex to his wife? Disgusting degeneracy.