>>551019 Straightness and gayness were produced in the 19th century by the new science of medicine's need to declare normal and abnormal and separate them symptomatically. Heterosexuality was declared normal and a state, rather than adhoc practices, the state approved this and used it to remake the proletarian family (cf: Engels, 1844); in contrast homosexuality was declared abnormal and a state of being, not merely a series of practices.
Before the medicalisation of sex one fucked men and fucked women. After the medicalisation of sex one WAS a straight or WAS a queer.
Other societies haven't gone through that process, so don't have those burdens about keeping adolescent men as sex slaves diminutating your potence as a child begetter or ability to marry women for example
>>550994 Modern homofaggotry is a western invention.
Here in Asia, it was either of the 3 possibilities. 1) Upgrade of a Male Friendship. They were still manly men, but just really like each other. 2) I just want to fuck boys, really. Or "I have an inclination to fuck boys today."
And then there's India. 3) I am a woman in a man's body, I must be as effeminate as christfuckingly possible.
>>551093 India's really notable because its views on homofaggotry influenced the entirety of SOutheast Asia. Hence Ladyboys and the fact that "Straight Acting Gay" is a very foreign concept to SEAsians.
i don't romanticise the times before as more permissive (it was different in different times and places, not a paradise... but also not the universal bigotry progressive narratives suggest)...
but the US/globalist LGBT identities are so abstracted from community/nation/society as to be these hollow and narcissistic things... they don't seem to serve any explicit purpose to the benefit of 'everyone'... they're expressions of the selfishness everywhere else in our civilisation
being part of them divides you from everyone and everything else, except others "like you" and distant powers like governments and the media and businesses - which all use identities very cynically for their own ends (but also throw bones and benefits)
i wish it would all go away... the more i think about it, the more it all seems like a big trap... some really perfect propaganda mapping directly onto personal feelings, and supposedly revealing the truth of who and what you are
>>551050 Pretty sure it was considered abnormal by many different societies in many different stages before this.
Look at the ancient Greeks, it's always said that they were so supported of homosexuality but the reality was that while romantic friendships existed; men were frowned upon from carrying them on to late into life and it was absolutely taboo for it to be a man's ONLY sexual relationship. The expectation was that a man have a wife and children; but that he might have a romantic friendship from his youth as well.
>>552650 Except Spartans and a few others practices pederasty also.
>>552617 Yeah, men were expected to carry on their bloodlines. The thread is about identity though. Read the OP? The anon you replied to was going on about how before the 19th century no one was considered an homosexual. There were just some dudes who had sex with other dudes and acceptance of these practices varied across time and place.
>>552617 Because reproduction remained important to advancement of their civilization, and you'd be surprised to find that contemporary gay men continue to have sex with women and up till recently had a wife and family in addition to their alternative life style for sake of society and reproduction. Anything outside reproduction was taboo, including oral and anal sex within heterosexual relationship. Abnormal was decided by the state , who with power of military and tyranny was able to decide what is normal and abnormal, as in what helps my state and what hinders it. Hedonism, personal fulfillment, and love was of little use.
Have you guys ever read about Siwa Oasis in Egypt?
>Siwa is of special interest to anthropologists and sociologists because of its historical acceptance of male homosexuality and even rituals celebrating same-sex marriage - traditions that the Egyptian authorities have sought to repress, with increasing success, since the early twentieth century. The practice probably arose because from ancient times unmarried men and adolescent boys were required to live and work together outside the town of Shali. The German egyptologist Georg Steindorff explored the Oasis in 1900 and reported that homosexual relations were common and often extended to a form of marriage: "The feast of marrying a boy was celebrated with great pomp, and the money paid for a boy sometimes amounted to fifteen pounds, while the money paid for a woman was a little over one pound." Mahmud Mohamrnad Abd Allah, writing of Siwan customs for the Harvard Peabody Museum in 1917, commented that although Siwan men could take up to four wives, "Siwan customs allow a man but one boy to whom he is bound by a stringent code of obligations."
>>550994 Gay/straight assume you see sex in terms of gender. Many societies, e.g. the later days of ancient Greece, were more about social standing and dominance. A 30-year-old guy fucking a 15-year-old teenager? Normal. That same guy giving oral sex to his wife? Disgusting degeneracy.
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