I dunno ask the muslims. The people of Europe have been pretty welcoming to them considering the whole immigration thing. I remember reading that crowds were cheering in Germany when the first trains of immigrants arrived from North Africa.
To be fair it was also vice versa. If a bunch of fundamentalist Christians somehow took over Israel and expelled all the Jews could you imagine modern Turkey taking them in with open arms yet that's exactly what the Ottomans did in 1492.
>>541561 Nice comparison, my Muslim friend. Firstly, Jews are neither European nor Christian so it's not "vice versa". Secondly, the Ottomans welcomed an economically prolific ethnic group, you can't compare them with the goatfuckers Europe's getting. They are a burden to European while the Jews contributed greatly to Empire's economy and wealth. And these are only two out of many differences between the two cases.
>>541729 By reformation he means they should become hippie treehugger universalist tolerant tumblrinas. Reformation in Europe also made Christianity more bloody and ultimately sparked the biggest religious war in human history.
>Reformation in Europe also made Christianity more bloody and ultimately sparked the biggest religious war in human history.
Fucking this. This is what I've never understood about the "it needs a reformation" meme. As if we don't have enough daily re-enactments of St. Bartholomew's Day or the Spanish Fury in Raqqa at the moment
>>541742 Considering that the Reformation spawned fundamentalism and despised intellectual approaches to theology, yeah... I don't see how it was much good. Look at Catholic education today, it's still really good and respected.
>>541742 The SOLE reason for the religious wars sparked in Christianity is due to the Catholic church. If they wouldn't have been such cunts and just allowed people to read the fucking book by themselves we wouldn't have had this shit.
>>541893 >1. Protestant ended up persecuting "heretical" protestant groups like the anabaptist So did Catholics. >2. The fruit of protestants is this post Christian nihilist society with Christianity shattered into hundreds of sects You're making an extraordinary claim without evidence. Suppose I were to accept it as true anyway, though. Is repression of competing ideas and freedom of expression supposed to be an attractive alternative?
>>541999 >For a Christian, yes. A kingdom divided falls. One could argue that it is a better alternative to a kingdom united under lies and corruption. Christ and the apostles didn't spread the gospel through persecution.
>>541743 Exactly, and what Islam needs is for the conflict with ISIS to become so destructive that the entire Muslim world decides that religious conflict isn't worth it anymore. We need at least 15 million deaths before we start to see any good from this.
>>542121 This. The "endgame" of Christianity is a community of believers, the endgame of Islam is subjugation of the infidel and imposition of Islamic laws. Nowhere in the NT is there anything close to this.
>>542121 This is an oversimplification. There are competing sects in Islam, as there are in Christianity. An Iranian doesn't see his religion as Arab nationalism. If you wanted to throw out an oversimplified answer, lack of precedent for seperation of the church and state would be closer to truth. The west didn't exactly have a smooth ride on the way to secular democracy either. Recognizing that muslims aren't inherently evil doesn't mean we have to support importing millions of them either.
>>542205 >An Iranian doesn't see his religion as Arab nationalism Of course he doesn't. Meanwhile his people have changed their endonym just because Arabic didn't have the "p" sound. Also calling it "Arab imperialism" would be more correct in my opinion.
Because every Abrahamic religion explicitly says at some point or another that all other Gods/belief systems are false and lead to eternal damnation. The only reason Christians and Jews get along in the Western world is because both religions are heavily secularized. Jesus has basically become a 1960s hippie and who knows what even happened to the Jewish religion.
The "Jewish religion" was never a unified entity and supported a huge variety of interpretations and communities with their own traditions. It differs quite a bit from the Christian form of authority. Christianity itself was developed through one of such interpretations, namely messianic Judaism and it went against others
Only since the Reformation is Christianity comparable to Jews with the whole forming of cults and disregarding institutions.
Early Christianity was largely unified. Even centuries of separation between Latins and Greeks didn't change their theology significantly, and all the foundational issues were solved through councils that are still authoritative today.
Maybe you could give a proper commentary on why I'm wrong? I'm not exactly giving learned answers on 4chan but I have read books about the formation of Christianity.
>>540433 Newsflash OP it's no longer christians vs muslims it's now more the west which has troublesome relations with the middle east and a cultural problem in which the Arab world wants to keep their identity which they found in Islam when Pan Arabism fell flat on it's face
>>540433 But they do get along pretty well. The fact that some Muslim states are currently led by the extremists isn't a foreign concept to Europeans neither. Instead of nationalism Muslims use religion, basically what they can recruit the more people with. Don't mistake all Muslims for extremists. >>540455 This is extremely irrelevant to everything.
>most of history's biggest Islamic empires were not Arabic >the last ethnic Arab caliph was probably around 1258 >non-Arabs held the caliphal office for the majority of its existence >the overwhelming majority of Muslims aren't Arabs
>>541144 This picture forgot the iberian crusades, the northern crusades, wars fought over africa, hell, while we are at it lets just count any byzantine aggression as crusades, considering they were about as secular as most of the muslim conquests were.
>>540455 >implying that shit matters at all. Religion is used as a tool for national stability because indoctrination didnt exist. Natioms didnt want a religion that would get it allies thousands of miles away, especially when the pope liked playing in the great game.
>>544067 People of all sorts have had conflicts for all of history. We do ourselves a disservice, as conservative type people, when we try to make a religion comprised of over a billion people, into some type of cartoonishly evil force. It's the same as leftists and their white privelege bullshit. It shows a serious lack of perspective. We can argue against mass-immigration and appeasement of extremists without resorting to these tactics.
>>540433 Aren't they getting along pretty well these days? Vatican II and the like fostered a new relationship that's probably a lot better than what was normal for the past. It's just that this accord is being overshadowed in publicity by small groups of militant hardliners who hate their fellow coreligionists as much as the other faiths.
>>545707 If that is so, why do you still have christian/jewish/Hindu/Sikh Minorities in 'Muslim' countries yet hardly any Native-religious in the new world? Did they just all realise that Catholicism is 'the one true faith'? What about the areas of the world that are muslim, yet were never officially conquered like Indonesia? What about muslim Minorities in non-Muslim countries like the Hui-Chinese?
>>540433 Because muslims act like chimpanzees when I want to eat my salami sandwich. My salami sandwich is fucking more important than muslim pieces of shit, my salami sandwich is delicious and it makes me feel good while I'm eating it and it makes me feel full and happy after I'm done eating it, while muslims with all their bitching and wanting to deprive me of everything I enjoy only make me bitter and mad.
>>547593 It's extremely annoying to have chimp out on how pork is forbidden to them. I'm having my good delicious pork moment and they have to bitch about it. Why can't they just shut up and go away? I'm not one of them and I don't give a fuck about their rules, they don't apply to me, I don't accept them. I do what I want and what I want to do is good and wonderful. If they can't act like civilized people and mind their own business (since they're incapable of respecting others) they should be beaten to death, silence is much more pleasing to my ears than their chimp voices.
>>540433 What is this picture trying to convey? Why is the background behind the Muslim woman of the same color range as their halos? Why are the Muslim colors warm and the Christian colors cool? Why does the Muslim-colored part go as far as the Christian woman in the lower part of the picture? Is it trying to say that the "good" Muslim woman is "extending her hand" to the "bad" Christian and trying to establish mutual understanding? Is it saying that Christians are on the dark side?
>>544122 >We can argue against mass-immigration and appeasement of extremists without resorting to these tactics. The fact that we don't have a charismatic speaker who can intelligently articulate this stuff just hurts. It's painful to have to put up with populist far-right stuff to get people onboard with any anti-immigrant position.
no, because unlike Christianity, muslim faith is not 'interpretable', it is strict guidelines that you must follow, and is incompatible with the western world. muslims can never integrate with a western country unless those countries bend the rules for them, which would be the fall of the west
Muslims can't get over their inherent inferiority complex. This is why they interpret passages of the Qur'an and the Hadith specifically to criticize Western culture. It's their only ideological weapon, they have nothing else. Their countries are poor desert shitholes, they are constantly in-fighting, and the "Guardians" of their holy sites are the most cynical, most westernized Arabs there have probably EVER been.
>>540433 They do mostly. However, in countries where there is an overwhelming majority of one or the other they usually persecute the other. It's not about religion but about human nature. Like when the overwhelming majority is anything they tend to persecute or denigrate whatever the tiny minority is.
>>551982 I wouldn't agree. The Church served to moderate the conflicts and not let them become destructive to Europe in General, and Monks were instrumental in preserving, translating and developing knowledge, but that happened on their own accord and not because Faith demanded it.
It doesn't work. Islam is in a sense a complete package, Religion, Politics, Law, even day-to-day things are parts of "Islam". That is why, if you deviate from Islamic tradition in any of these you will have orthodox Muslim opposition. Not on the basis of "Morality", like Christians do, but because it's not Islamic, and Not-Islamic is automatically immoral. They literally say they can tolerate living here, but the West is "impure" and "on a lower stage of living" than Muslims. Mind-boggling if you look at the places that are actually under Muslim rule.
>>552024 Funny, because the "Guardians of the Holy Sites" built it, along with like 10 other Giant towers. Saudis are the most cynical, hyper-capitalist rulers in the world probably, but Muslims don't opposed them because... ?
>>552012 Sorry, but there is a problem when you can rationalize your actions using an ideology that says that "Women's testimony in court is worth half a man's". Your actions matter, yes, but ultimately it's the system of morals and ideals you hold for yourself. If that is Islam, and you try to live like Muhammad, then there's obviously a problem.
>>552058 Well, usually they're happy to do suicide bombings, kidnappings etc. Why don't they do it? Because the Saudis buy them off. Just shows their moral bankruptcy im, the groups who present themselves as the strongest adherents of Islam doing that.
>>552057 from what you say, you don't know personally a Muslim. it is a religion of more than one billion people. it is not a monolith. muslim women- it depends from the country. Tunisian woman have no veil and are very strong. Other countries maybe is different.
>>541837 I'd be inclined to agree with you, except that I already know what a shitshow is spawned by ordinary people interpreting Scripture alone (and deciding to disregard anything not written in the Bible for some reason) causes.
>>540433 Well, that may seem like a good question on the surface. Islam and Christianity both value "peace" right? Unfortunately, they look at that concept entirely differently.
Christianity is "peace" in that it teaches to love and respect everybody you meet, to abhor violence and aggression, to avoid materialism and help your neighbor as if he was family. It teaches that the things that divide us are beneath us, that we can strive towards cooperation and brotherhood through our focus on God allowing us to look past the trappings of the material. This is Christianity's peace.
Islam's peace, however, is very different, hardly even the same concept to Western sensibilities.
Islam is peace because, when the black flags of Khorasan fly over every house in every city in every nation over the whole of the Earth, there will be no more war.
Islam is peace because, after all the infidels and all the unrighteous and all the godless have been purged with fire and sword, there will be no one left to fight.
Islam is peace because, once sin has been wiped from the mind of all believers and those who don't believe submit to Muslim rule, the Jihad can finally end.
>>553063 >read the news at any time Or, you know, just pick up a fucking Quran. This isn't even hard, it's not like they censor the ones not written in Arabic (although they could, given that the Islamic principle of Taqiyya permits Muslims to outright lie to infidels in order to deceive them regarding the goals of Islam).
>>553101 Muhammad allowed for Taqiyya in order to win battles against his opponents. He commanded a recent convert of his to deny his religion in front of his former allies in order to kill their leader.
If anything it's non muslims who feared for their life
All things considered we get along okay enough when technically speaking the other side is heretics. I mean, it's usually believed that the other side will see Heaven after being lectured on why their interpretation of the faith was inaccurate.
Yes, that means that Saladin and King Richard are probably chillin'.
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