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Slavs
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

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Ok guys i want to find out more about Slavs. Where do they come from?
Are there any groups of Slavs other than East, West and Southern Slavs?
Tell me anything you know about them.
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Slav is a linguistic group. They don't share a history or something like that. The Czech tried to endorse some sort of "pan-slavic" identity. Then Russia took it and turned it into shit.
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>>539307
Well if they are a linguistic group they must have some kind of common ancestry.
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the orange glow of the setting sun, covered my armor in a vibrant reddish hue, the waves lapped and tugged against the wooden vessel, as I watched carefully for any glimpse of that familiar shore. For untold months we had wandered the desolate emptiness of the vast ocean in search of loot and fame, finding none and returning a few men less then when we had set forth.
"A blasted thing war does to men", my first mate grunted as he rowed, his back sweat glistened off the purple and red backdrop.
"A fine thing it gives back in character", I retorted simply, "a bloody but fine thing it does to all mens souls it touches."
Suddenly, I caught a glimpse of pirate vessel, emerging from the horizon. I grasped my axe and yelled, "quickly, head towards them... lets show them that we may have been defeated, but we are not at on deaths door."
They've been following for weeks, and if its a fight they want its a fight they'll get, i thought.
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>>539307
>a linguistic group.
>They don't share a history or something like that
It doesn't work like that
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>>539327
>>539404
well technically all Indo-European speaking people should be related than, say, an Indian should have common history with a Swede. While this may distantly be the case, you still wouldn't say they are one identity.
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They were a bunch of filthy niggers who moved to russia but were kicked out of russia and all of them died except for one by the name of Filthy Frank.
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>>539439
eвpeй, пoжaлyйcтa.
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>>539327
>ancestry correlates with language

Top yey retard. Guess all English speaking people share ancestry with Anglos now.
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>>539327
well yeah, but it is a shared ancestry that was divided between about the 5th and 8th century at the time they came westward to europe from their original homeland - of which there apparently are several possible varieties
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>>539295
pre-christianity Slav history is still a subject of heated debates, there are various theories where they came from so im just gonna tell a little about groups
the western Slavs were only relevant thanks to Poland, they loved their noble democracy but went corrupt and got partitioned
The eastern Slavs are obviously Russia. They preferred used have oppressive feudalism for a long time just to fall as a victim to communism. The only part when Russia wasn't abusive shit for its citizens was when it would be Novgorod republic, before Ivan the terrible razed it to the ground.
The south slavs were always either under Byzantines,Austrians or Turks. Basically irrelevant.
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>>540858
There doesn't have to be a shared ancestry at all to begin with.
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>>540863
I'd say Bohemia was by far the most important medieval Slavic realm.
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>>539295
>Where do they come from?
No one really knows, most researchers place them somewhere from present day Poland and Czech Republic (the extreme western extent of their supposed homeland) to the Baltic in the north and about Ukraine/Belarus (the extreme east). Pic related stolen off wikipedia shows some of the most commonly assumed ancestors of the Slavonic peoples.
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>>540865
There does not have to be but chances are high there was, as a protlanguage can be reconstructed and suggests a shared protoslavic culture somewhere in present day central/eastern europe.
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>>540891
>protolanguage can be reconstructed

How does this imply there is a shared ancestry?

>I teach a black African English
>he will teach his children English
>soon there's a whole African country speaking English

Does this imply they share ancestry with English people? There's decent enough evidence that East Slavs absorbed a ton of Finno-Ugric people and in the case of West and some South Slavs, Slavic language was used as a lingua franca in the Avar Khaganate and that's how it spread.
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>>540907
Because a high degree linguistical unity in Old or Common Slavonic is a phenomenon that was noted to exist as late as the 9th century and suggests a shared homeland at some point in the past. Your hilarious example says nothing about ancestry, because research would show that there is a clear distinction between newly learnt language and its historical development, in case of English that of its Saxon influences.
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>>540943
The only research I take into consideration when it comes to ancestry is genetic research which is pretty much proving what I said so far.
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>>540963
>muh genes
When it comes to humans, genetic research is not enough, you're missing the whole fucking half about cultural evolution, which is carried by memes (inb4 you sperg out at >memes).
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>>540943
>Common Slavonic
>9th century

Spoken only by a bunch of Bulgarians at that point.
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>>540907
>teach one man a language
>soon his entire nation speaks that language

that's not how it works

>Slavic language was used as a lingua franca in the Avar Khaganate and that's how it spread.

what about literally the entire region from the baltics to the pannonian plain and over the alps towards west, that wasn't under the khaganate's influence?

I'm guessing you're a west slav trying desperately to distance yourself from the russians?
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>>540963
see >>540987
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>>541001
Spoken across half of Europe. Common Slavonic is a label applied to the mutually intelligible language only differentiated through dialect, not discrete language development.
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>>541002
>what about literally the entire region from the baltics to the pannonian plain and over the alps towards west, that wasn't under the khaganate's influence?

I used the khaganate as just one example among many m8.

>>541009
>>540987
>cultural evolution

We've been talking about physical ancestry though.
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>>541020
Yes, and it only existed in Bulgaria at that point, hence how Church Slavonic developed.
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>>541021
>We've been talking about physical ancestry though.

>>540891
>suggests a shared protoslavic culture
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>>541026
>it only existed in Bulgaria at that point
Urhghghg, no, it existed across half of Europe. Because it was the language spoken by the Slavic peoples. Whose language development had not yet broken off into the distinctive language branches. Like, how do you even argue against this, this is literally basic linguistics you can find in virtually any book.
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>>539424
I think Punjabi has a lot less in common with Swedish than Slavic languages do with each other.
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>>541036
Hi there!

You seem to have made a bit of a mistake in your post. Luckily, the users of 4chan are always willing to help you clear this problem right up! You appear to have used a tripcode when posting, but your identity has nothing at all to do with the conversation! Whoops! You should always remember to stop using your tripcode when the thread it was used for is gone, unless another one is started! Posting with a tripcode when it isn't necessary is poor form. You should always try to post anonymously, unless your identity is absolutely vital to the post that you're making!

Now, there's no need to thank me - I'm just doing my bit to help you get used to the anonymous image-board culture!
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>>541026
Church Slavonic was only one slavic language among many, that was chosen to teach the slavic people about christianity. The first slavic king to adapt christianity was a bohemian king, which obviously also spoke a slavic language
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>>541077
>bohemian king
Moravian actually.
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>>541084
That's right, thanks for the correction.
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>>541084
and a prince/duke, not a king!
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>>541077
> The first slavic king to adapt christianity was a bohemian king, which obviously also spoke a slavic language
We don't know what language(s) he spoke, honestly. The information about him is extremely scarce.
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>>539357
picture is cool, story?
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Genetically speaking the peoples were already here at least 3000 BC. Culturally/linguistically speaking we assume they derive from the peoples living in Pripyat forest somewhere during the Srubna culture based on toponyms and hydronyms (they have the archaic words for many of the flora there while having little descriptions for entities of water, indicating them being landlocked for a long time).
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>>539295
We don't know exactly where we come from.
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>>541519

The problem is rather that we don't know how to exactly demarcate the definition of slavic.
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>>541624
Slavs started out as a distinct ethnic group but after the migration there was quite some mixing with Celtic, Illyrian, Finno-Ugric and other people. I wouldn't say it's just a linguistic thing.
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>>540907
all human share ancestory with each other, however remote it may be
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>>541636
Obviously. The question was whether there was a common ancestry of the Slavic people after the differentiation from the Proto-Indo-European group and before the migrations.
There had to be one, considering the Balto-Slavic connection.
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>>541635

Which only further increases the problem as slav is used nowadays interchangeably as either ethnic group or linguistic group and being part of the latter does not make you part of the former and vice versa.
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>>541099
They spoke old church slavonic. Slavic languages weren't really differentiated at the time yet.
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>>541721
That's bullshit. The name tells you it was used in religious practice - the same as the church Slavonic of today.
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>>541771
Yeah, it was used in religious practice BECAUSE they spoke it. Why would they invent a new language just for religious services?
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>>541721
Are you retarded? Old Church Slavonic is southern Slavic language. You're thinking of protoslavic when you say undifferentiated language.
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>>541775
The same reason any literary language is invented.
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>>541783
Protoslavic is older. The language commonly used by slavs was codified and named old church slavonic.
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>>541789
But the claim that Slavic languages were undifferentiated by then is flat out wrong.
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>>541792
They differed on dialect level. Your language won't change that much after few generations.
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>>541795
Pick up a history book.
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>>541802
I already did to check the stuff I wrote :^)
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>>541795
>>541802
>>541805

this might help you friends

http://traditio.wiki/files/f/f0/FROM_PROTO-INDO-EUROPEAN_TO_SLAVIC.pdf

old church slavonic was a somewhat differentiated language already, it's already a branch of the original tree so to say.
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>>541825
Yes, seeing as it was the only that had coherent alphabet.
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>>539307
>>540828
Wrong. Slavic tribes did migrate from Russia around the 7th century and invaded vast areas formerly inhabited by avars and celts and Germanics
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>>541880

hello reddit
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>>541884
Greetings my cuckold friend
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>>541880
No. They migrated from todays western Ukraine, not Russia.
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>>541880
Literally every single thing about your post is wrong, good job.
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>>541895
t. Ukrainian cuck
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>>541903
>d invaded vast areas formerly inhabited by avars and celts and Germanics

That actually isn't wrong senpai
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>>541889
>>541908

hello reddit
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>>541908
It is wrong. Slavic was a lingua franca of the Avar khaganate, which means Slavs already lived there by that point.
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>>541915
That doesn't matter retard. What matters is that the leadership/nobility changed from avar/celtic/german to slavic
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>>541927
>formerly inhabited
>formerly

You're the retard.
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It's a linguistic group right and not an ethnicity right? Because I said that once and became the laughing stock of /int/
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>>541932
>>541952
Hey leddit
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>>541904
he's right actually I don't know where the fuck did you get that Russia theory from
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>>541952
>on /int/

Wew lad
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>>541957

hello reddit
>>
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>>541880
Slavs didn't migrate from Russia, they migrated INTO Russia.
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>>541973
Fuck off reddit infiltrator back to your cuck hole
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>>541952
It's a pretty dirty secret, no one really wants to talk about it. It's like the ethnic version of the kings clothes.
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>>541880
This is a really silly theory, since it would mean that they first migrated to Russia and then migrated from it again, as if the places they migrated from to Russia was empty when they left.
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>>541952
It is only a lingustic group. They maybe had a common culture at one point but that stopped being a thing like 1500 years ago.
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>>541094
Knyaz is literally the same word as king.
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>>542043
He was Kníže, which is translated as Prince, or german Fürst.
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>>542043
In West Slavic languages it means priest.
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>>540863
>The south slavs were always either under Byzantines,Austrians or Turks. Basically irrelevant.

Slavs constituted a huge chunk of the Austrian empire which was a big deal in Europe, saying they're "irrelevant" is pretty stupid.
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>>542011

hello reddit
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>>542085
>>542011
>>541973
>>541957
>>541910
>ebun reddit maymay
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>>542090
hello reddit
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>>540863
>the western Slavs were only relevant thanks to Poland
King of Bohemia was the most powerful noble in HRE after Emperor.
>they preferred used have oppressive feudalism
Tatar influence, also don't confuse Kievan Rus and Muscovy
>south slavs were always under Byzantines
Bulgaria was one of the most powerful medieval empires, not to mention Serbian, Bosnian or Croatian kingdoms
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>>542061
It means both. In Polish there's kniaź/książę (prince) and ksiądz (Catholic priest), both stemming from the same root. Obviously, in the beginning it was more generally position of authority, both secular and religious, but was divided after christianization.

Interestingly, the Polish world for Moon, Księżyc, is a patronymic, meaning prince's (książę's) son - originally it was the name for the new moon, worshipped as a son of the moon god.
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>>542108

hello reddit
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>>542060
It's the same word as king/könig, etymologically.
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Does anyone have any information on pre-christianity eastern slavic religion?

>inb4 google in faggot

I already did, all I got was some vague fantasy lore.
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>>545041

http://www.britannica.com/topic/Slavic-religion
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>>545053

I appreciate you giving me that link. Not to widen the goalposts or anything, but I should have mentioned in the original post, that I'm looking for something more in depth than that.

Particularly something that mentions, explains, or even focuses on east slavic mythical symbols and such.
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>>545073
It's a really tough area to research unfortunately. Made even tougher than there is so little in English. But this might help
http://www.psupress.org/books/titles/0-271-01966-2.html
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>>545095

Thank you for your help.

I've tried searching in russian, but it's hard to sift out actual legitimately interesting articles from clickbait-tier bullshit.

It's funny how little we are taught about "ancient" eastern europe, despite it being a key foundation to my national identity.
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>>545172

*my nation's people's national identity
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>>545172

According to the Wiki article there are basically no sources because the pre-Christian slavs didn't have a writing system, which is probably why you are having such trouble.
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>>545197

I did wonder if there even are written documents from that time or at least something like hieroglyphics (I know I'm retarded), I suppose that is the reason why I can't find much.

It's disappointing that no records of this were made by the more modern slavs until it was too late to really research this.
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>>545239

I don't know anything about it either, however without written sources there is basically no history, I'm sorry, anon ;(

Except what can be gleaned from archaeology, maybe doing some research on Eastern European archaeology will give you some better luck in finding out some info.
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>>545261

Thanks anon!
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>>545073
no one really knows what was our religion the church pretty much erased most records

and to think Scandinavians whine about church destroying their culture lmao at least they know their gods
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Actually old church slavonic was language of all slavs, they taught not only south slavs but also moravians and kievan rus
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>>541880

Exactly why are Russians afraid of conceding their primacy status in terms of age?

Nobody is going to question Russian slavic primacy. You're too big.
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>>546180

For you.
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>>539424
well they do share a common history, far away in time but closer than swedes and chinese, even when india is closer to china.
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>>540863
>eastern slavs are obviously russia
yes but not, russians origin from the rus vikings that came through the rivers from the baltics, slavs originate from the south, the balkans. rus vikings only adopted their lenguage and maybe shortly their religion but got christianized shortly after.
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