>>537083 After Tito died, a rotating presidency was set up and ethnic tensions of old reflared. The Serbs turned Kosovo and Vojvodina into autonomous regions because of all the ethnic minorities there, which gave the Serbs 4 seats in the presidency (the also have Montenegro). In response, the other republics began to become more secession minded, which caused a feedback loop that pitted the Serbs against the other groups. This tension was strongest in multi-ethnic Bosnia, and eventually war broke out when Slovenia, Macedonia, Croatia and Bosnia seceded
Imagine Lebanese civil war, but with less fractions, more coordinated ethnic cleansing, foreign power interests ( because its in Europe ) and perhaps the best pillaging of any socialist country in their transition to a democracy ever. In the privatization that followed every ex-yu state was sacked. Criminals were given military equipment and former communists have split up in new parties. So, 26 years after the star of the war, imbeciles and now sons of imbeciles govern each of the states with massive and extremely porous goverment administrations. Of course, Slovenia didnt participate in the war and they are butthurt till this day because they are not enough Slav to be embraced by other ex-yu states and not enough European to be accepted by European states.
Economic problems during the 70s and the 80s, particularly in Serbia and Croatia. The intellectual elite in Serbia start jacking up nationalism, Greater Serbian Kingdom and what have you. Milosevic on the rise. Tito dies. Serbia starts groping at the Federation, asking for more powers (don't remember how in the practical sense). Most of the Yugoslav army logistics are situated in Serbia so that when Croatia and Slovenia wants to say "fuck this and fuck you" to Serbia, Serbia gets its dick hard and goes guns blazing. Meanwhile you have two oppressed majority muslim people, the Slavs in the form of Bosniaks and the Albanians of Kosovo who really had no position in YUGOSLAVIA to begin with - except for their unrelenting hold to Kosovo as a historically Albanian place; and for the most part the demographics are on their side. Kosovar Albanians lose the autonomy granted by the Tito era when Milosevic has other plans. This spurs the culmination of Albanian longing for true independence in the area. Meanwhile the Serb intelligencia vehicle rants historical fallacies about Kosovo Polje and speaks about how Muslims are the true degenerates and that they should be removed. Obviously in the end it's all a geopolitical scheme to further their position in the region, Balkan muslims are the least hardcore in all the world, and the cultural dissimilarities between a Serb and a Bosniak are fucking minimal.
Conclusion: Bad economic times (almost always the factor in everything from marital relationships to that between nations, since you're obviously a pleb), Serb intelligencia vehicle and a power vacuum left by Tito which Serbia tries to fill.
Here's a reply in your 4 replies thread, if it hasn't even been deleted by the time I wrote this.
>>538220 The Federation was inherently a shallow concept founded on a false idea that all Southern Slavic people are the same.
In it existed only political plays by one after the other to consolidate as much power for their own people as possible. The power conflict lives on also today, just not in the shade of a "shared entity", but in the open.
You are a mix babbie. Croat and Serb. You are the product of a deceitful idea that has now passed its time. You can broker peace between these two entities, but you had best not believe that something like a reciprocal union can exist between them.
>>538289 No. There would have to be an entity to ensure that none is above the other. Like the EU. When France and Germany made progress towards a kind of unification, through the market of coal and steel, the USA was there to ensure that these two bound themselves properly.
Had they gone in on it solely by themselves, it would have been a continous problem in regards to finding the middle point in their dealings. The one would try to win over the other.
>>537083 I'll try to give you the abridged version. The political boundaries of Yugoslavia were pretty confusing by the time the 1974 revision of their constitution and the division between national and local authority was unclear. Yugoslavia was made up of six republics: Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia (hybrid state fabricated by Yugoslavia; FYROM to the Greeks) and two autonomous regions, Kosovo and Vojvodina. This all fell apart after Tito died in 1980 as his stature and charisma was the only thing keeping the whole experiment running.
Debt finally caught up to Yugoslavia as they found quickly that they could not pay back the Western loans that propped up their economy. Massive inflation kicks in and each of the republics is looking to save their own ass. Looking to fill Tito's power vacuum, nationalist fervor was whipped up by ambitious local politicians. Slobodan Milosevic of Serbia and Franjo Tudjman of Croatia were on a collision course that could only lead to war. Slovenia also a had a small role in creating the tense pre-war atmosphere.
The wars themselves were sporadic and spilled into each other: 1. Slovenian secession (1991) 2. Croatia-Serbia (1991-95) 3. Bosnia (1992-95) 4. Kosovo (1999)
>>537083 use Death of Yugoslavia as the western pigs base, mix in a bit of Weigth of Chains propaganda powder and spice it up with a bit of slovenian butthurt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L5Qm-qRjqg)
Was there ever a more based man in history than Tito?
>built a nation from ashes >successfully implemented socialism >but with a pro market approach >managed to unite the tribes >told Stalin to fuck off in the process >founder of the non aligned movement >was a dictator but a benevolent one who the people adored
Its like when a family falls apart because the father figure died ;_;
He didn't. Basically he was running the country on western loans that were given to him because of his anti-Soviet stance. The moment USSR became history and westerners started demanding payments, the whole Yugo shithouse collapsed.
>built a nation from ashes >successfully implemented socialism >pro market approach
The implementation of socialist ideas was actually done by subbordinates, like Kardelj and Horvat. The from ashes and pro market solution is basically >acquire loads of debts from the west >die before the inevitable economic collapse
>benevolent dictator If you ignore political internment camps like Goli Otok, a large propaganda apparatus and general societal and economic pressures from the communist party. And that' not even going into the mid/post ww2 killings of opposition.
He was an excellent diplomat though and managed to keep yugoslavia out of Stalin's sphere, that's true.
>>540125 The fuck are you on about? Economic separation was already beginning to yank the republics apart before Tito had passed away. Sure, the post-industrial West may have botched any attempt at support during the conflict but they definitely didn't incite it.
>>541151 He was definitely an interesting and lovable figure but his rule was almost dependent on the continuation of the Cold War. He found a captivating temporary solution to the Yugoslavian percentages agreement but in the end it was really just a house of cards.
>>541160 I definitely don't think he's the benevolent figure we Americans made him out to be for the reasons you pointed out but there's something to be said for the amount of controversial art he permitted.
Punk music by the sons and daughters of the party cadres directly attacked dysfunctional elements of Tito's communist party. The director Dusan Makavajev also made overtly anti-communist films during Tito's rule. A few artists emigrated to America but the vast majority of them felt comfortable enough to stay and continue with controversial art.
>>541191 Well it definitely wasn't as opressive as the soviet government or even the chinese one.
Generally, pressure came in its soft variant, the "not really dangerous" opponents of the regime having difficulties with attaining higher positions or even getting a job. The youngesters (punks, etc.) were harrassed by the police, locked up for a day or two and so on.
I think a lot has to do with the general perception of authority with yugoslavians, people just bribed to get by the "opressive rules" and nobody cared as long as you weren't a real danger to the regime.
short version: Tito contained nationalistic tendencies and conflict in SFRY, afer his death, nationalism started rising, especially in Serbia. Add shit economy, and you get states like Slovenia and Croatia seeking independence. Now, Serbian propaganda creates a myth that newly elected governement in Croatia is nationalistic and wants to wipe out Serbian minority. local serbs arm themselves and start doing shit in so-called Krajina, piece of land in Croatia that is now suddenly ancient Serbia because reasons. At the same time, Yugoslav army, to ''protect Yugoslavia'' invades Croatia. War begins, lot of shit from both sides, etc. War ends in august 1995 with operation Storm, which drove out rebelled Serbs (army and civilians). didn't feel like greentexting, sorry if this makes it too hard to read, This is just a short version, you should remember it was a consequence of atleast a century old events and it is very complicated.
>>541223 >wasnt as opressive as the soviet or chinese
M8 from 1945-1981 there were 1.17 mil victims, and the country had around total 20 mil people. The mass slaughter of Croatians, Slovenes, Germans, Hungarians and some Serbs ("chetniks" that didn't transfer to "partisans")
Secret police murdering people that escaped Yugoslavia (there are ongoing trials in germany now), neighbours telling on their neighbours, friends for some benefits. Prosecution of religious leaders. Also if you're not in the party, you're essentially a lesser citizen.
Tito had charisma and western money. After he died it was gone and all that repressed anger came out.
>>541268 you'll find no real sources yet, as we still haven't come to terms that he was a criminal dictator (propaganda and brainwashing does that to people) it's from wikipedia though
but here's the post ww2 killing thing sourced
Kroz naše zatvore je prošlo između 1945. i 1951. 3,777,776 zatvorenika, dok smo likvidirali 586,000 narodnih neprijatelja.” (Aleksandar Ranković, iz izvještaja u beogradskoj skupštini, Politika, Beograd, 1.veljače 1951., str.1)
Through our prisons from 1945 and 1951. 3.7 mil people went through and we've killed 586k "state enemies". He was the head of secret police.
>>541891 it's an estimate from people, as i already said, half of the country was born under propaganda and repression, there was no news about someone getting arrested, people just vanished.
Croatian ex-president even considers Tito a hero. Research of it may happen with the new Croatian government, but you have to understand, half of our politicians are ex-Communist Party officials, or even worse UDBA (intelligence agency).
Is it really so hard to believe that after killing half a million in 6 years, they killed another half a million in the next 40 years?
There's no simple answer, since many factions are involved. >Serbs and Croats live next to each other, cool relations for centuries (in 9th century according to some records Croats even helped Serbs against Bulgarians) >Turks come >Serbs settle Croatian land escaping Turks >they are given privileges for acting as frontiersmen and fighting Turks >relations between Serbs and Croats are cool, they are practically same people of different denomination (practically, not saying they are same) >even Austrians and Hungarians mix them together >19th century >nationalism >Croats are divided between pan-Slavism (Yugoslavism is a Croatian idea) and nationalism >Serbs in Croatia still have privileges, Croatia is divided in three parts (plus Bosnia if you count it as Croatian) >some Serbs support Yugoslavism, some support it only formally, some work as Hungarian tool for fucking up Croat goals >some Croats are more oriented towards Croatian nationalism and hate Serbs >some Croats work for Austrians and Hungarians >WW1 >some Croats gladly rush to fight Serbs, some oppose it >even Serbs fight Serbs in A-H army >Serbs are victors and Croatia is united with Serbia >they get fucked over with some exchange of currency or something >state is increasingly Serbocentrist Yugoslavia >it becomes dictatorship later on (King Alexander) >Croatian nationalists wanna go, some want reform >in WW2 Croatian ultranationalists (appointed by Italians and Germans) commit a genocide against Serbs (several hundred thousand people) >Serbs obviously don't like this >still more Croats fight for Tito, Yugoslavia is formed >but in this Yugoslavia, Serbs don't have much power >in 1974, Serbia losses Vojvodina and Kosovo >before that, Montenegro is brainwashed into being not-Serb >Serbs in Bosnia outside of Serbia too >economic problems >Serbian nationalism rises due to above mentioned things and rise of Albanian nationalism in Kosovo >Yugo wars happen And this is just short Serb-Croat history.
>>541151 >built a nation from ashes kinda >successfully implemented socialism state driven capitalism =/= socialism >but with a pro market approach only because he had to >managed to unite the tribes well that worked out well now didn't it. >told Stalin to fuck off in the process granted >founder of the non aligned movement if you consider this to be a good thing >was a dictator but a benevolent one who the people adored well that's kinda the point of cults of personality, isn't it?
Serbs didn't want a break up. Their government at the time was Balkan ideological nightmare trying to 'free' Croatian land and create the great Serbia on the expense of much of today's Croatia (this is one of Serbian goals of ages that always failed so far). Later Croats and Serbs tried to split Bosnia in two and share the territory according to populational nationalities, which also resulted in ethnic cleansing made on both sides.
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