Did they deserve the end they got?

>>536789
>Thousand of soldiers die in the civil war
Well war isn't always nice
>a family of ""'noble""" die
WHAT ? How could you ?

yes

>>536814
this

>>536818
>>536814

I want bolshecucks off my board, go to leftiepol you leftist parasites

>>536789
No, but it was absolutely inevitable.

Could have spared the little girls though.

>>536832
>calling others parasites while supporting nobility

ayy le mao

>>536789

>did some pubescent girls deserve to be shot and hacked to death because of their surname

What do you think?

No, no one deserves that, not even Lenin and their other murderers.

>>536843
>the tsar was a loving dad
>he made his daughters sleep in beds that his soldiers slept in
>he made them respect the commoners
>members of the royal family were active in helping the poor and setting up charities helping the poor and injured war veterans
>the first tsar to relinquish absolute power and the first to abdicate
>muh evil tyrant kill him and his entire family


i hope you red scum end up in a gulag

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no

>>536789
Stop making this thread.

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>>536870
>he made them respect the commoners
>members of the royal family were active in helping the poor

Is someone paying you to be this stupid?

>>536870
That's not the point
Their lives don't have more value than any other man,
They're just some more dead people in the war

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>>536871
What are the circumstances of this picture? Did they just tell her to make as stupid a face as she could?

No one "deserves" anything. This is /his/, not /feels/. We don't make those kind of judgements when studying history.

>>536840
>>536853
you know, its times like this that I wonder if the MRAs don't have a point.

The youngest victim was the 13 year old Alexei. And yet reflexively the murder of young women - who apart from the 17 year old Anastasia were all over 18 - disgusts people more.

>>536915

IIRC Alexei was shot. Two or three of the princessess were protected by the amount of jewellery they were wearing and had to be finished off with knives, that's why I brought it up.

They can gone away from Russia at all 1917, but did't do it!

No. If he should have been executed, then to it by legal way. This was unlawful killing of not only the Tsar, but also his family that haven't done anything wrong.

>>536877
>Is someone paying you to be this stupid?
Why would they when you're giving it away for free?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Elisabeth_of_Hesse_and_by_Rhine_(1864%E2%80%931918)

Grand Duchess Elizabeth gave away her vast fortune to charity and retired to a nunnery after the murder of her husband (she also forgave his murderer, a socialist revolutionary, and asked for his pardon).

The reds dragged her from her nunnery. They threw her down a mineshaft, along with several others of the Romanov dynasty, and when the fall failed to kill them threw grenades and flammable materials down after them.

This didn't kill her immediately though. She spent her final hours (or days; it's hard to say how long they survived) bandaging the wounds of the other victims before dying from her injuries.

But sure, defend the communists.

>>536789
Do we deserve to have this thread spammed so often?

>>537012

>The Cheka beat all the prisoners before throwing their victims into this pit, Elisabeth being the first. Hand grenades were then hurled down the shaft, but only one victim, Fyodor Remez, died as a result of the grenades.

>According to the personal account of Vasily Ryabov, one of the killers, Elisabeth and the others survived the initial fall into the mine, prompting Ryabov to toss in a grenade after them. Following the explosion, he claimed to have heard Elisabeth and the others singing an Orthodox hymn from the bottom of the shaft. Unnerved, Ryabov threw down a second grenade, but the singing continued. Finally a large quantity of brushwood was shoved into the opening and set alight, upon which Ryabov posted a guard over the site and departed.

jesus christ

>>537012
>muh poor suffering charitable nobility

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_%281905%29

>>537036

>It was okay to murder this particular innocent person in a horrific manner because some army officers gave the order to shoot demonstrators two decades previously

cute

Tsar, yes
Family, no

They just killed Nicholas, Romanovs would not become martyrs.

>>537036
a few captains panic and, without any orders from the royals, order their troops to open fire, and thus the whole royal family - children included - deserve to be murdered in the most brutal fashion possible.

>communist logic

>>537075
>>537086
>muh fallacies

Only severely brain damaged individuals would classify the Russian monarchy as 'caring'. If they weren't so fucking greedy the Communists would have never taken power. They had serfdom until the mid 19th century, unending misery and famines, what the hell were they expecting from the people except revolt?

Wait, bolsheviks are so deranged they literally defend cold blooded murder of children?

>>537090

>Only severely brain damaged individuals would classify the Russian monarchy as 'caring'.

Nobody's doing that, you dumbfuck, people are pointing out that some of the people savagely murdered by the Reds were utterly innocent

>>537098
>Nobody's doing that
>>536870
>>537012

>>537103

Yes, thank you for citing that Elisabeth of Hesse post as it fits neatly into the "some of the people savagely murdered by the Reds were utterly innocent" element of my post

>>537090

> unending misery and famines

thats soviet russia you are talking about

there were only two major famines in over 300 years before the communists, compare with the 4 that happened within a few decades, killing millions after the soviets

>>537118
Well, I certainly wasn't defending the communists but you keep insisting that I am. I have no sympathy for either party, they were both murdering scum. Most revolutions are violent, that's just how it is, people die on both sides, one life isn't inherently more valuable than the other.

>>537103

I was reffering go Nicholas II, not tge monarchy in general, there where Tsars that were much more cruel, but they didnt end up like Nicky, if Nicky was more like Nicholas I, brutal and uncompromising, he would have survived, its ironic ghat """"the people"""" killed the two tsars that were actually progressive by Russian standards, Aleksander the II and Nicky II, because good tsars make bad scape goats for the dirty reds.

>>537138
An illiterate peasants life isnt worth at all compared to that of a monarch or any person in power, you have to be a deluded utopian leftist to believe something as stupid as that.

>>537090
>f-fallacies

Oh look, a commie fuck using a big word in order to seem smart.

>>537131
Fucking hell. Another retard that thinks I'm somehow defending Communists. Criticizing the Czar doesn't immediately mean one is a Communist. From a humanitarian stand point both systems were deplorable.

Oh and there were a lot more major famines during both periods, some of them weren't even due to political screw ups but due to environmental factors.

>>537153
>the people killed the two tsars that were actually progressive by Russian standards
Sure, one put an end to serfdom and the other sort of tried to kickstart and industrial revolution and political reform. After a 300 year rule, it was too little too late.

>>537161
>An illiterate peasants life isnt worth at all compared to that of a monarch or any person in power
And you'd have to be a deluded misanthropic fascist to think people are disposable just because they weren't born into the right family.

>>537172
>hurrrrr

>>536789
Fuck yes. Bunch of decadent parasites deserved worse.

>>537161

t. Julius Evola

History is ever so many ironies piled one atop the other. Alexander II was killed by a bomb after designing, but not yet announcing, a series of reforms similar to what Nicholas II had to concede after the 1905 Revolution.
One of the members of the cell that killed Alexander was the elder brother of he who became Vladimir Lenin. The brother was hanged; Lenin had Alexander's grandson and family killed.
Irony on irony.

>>537281
The biggest irony in history must be the murder of Rapustin.

From a review of the memoirs of his assassin, Prince Felix Youssoupov:

" He confides in the reader, without seeming to understand what he is saying, that when Felix and friends killed him, Rasputin was actually working to end the war by using his influence to get the Tsar to sign a peace treaty with Germany. Had Rasputin lived to accomplish this, he would have saved the Romanov dynasty, prevented the Revolution and Civil War, and probably changed the disastrous course of Central and East European politics for the entire century. But no -- Prince Felix, bringing to the task an uncharacteristic diligence and cunning, managed to prevent all that.

While trying to get close to Rasputin, Youssoupoff has several long, drunken conversations with him, in which the mad monk sounds far less mad than his patrician killer. Rasputin's plan, as recounted by Felix, was to force Nikolai II off the throne, install Alexandra, and accept peace at virtually any price: "Rasputin stared at me intently; half closing his eyes, he said after a few moments of thought: 'This is what is going to happen, my dear fellow: enough of this war, enough bloodshed. It's time to end this slaughter. Isn't Germany our brother too? The Lord said: "Thou shalt love thine enemy as thine own brother." That's why this war must cease. He [Nikolai II] constantly opposes this; she [Alexandra] won't hear of it either. Someone is certainly giving them bad advice. But what does it matter? If I give an order, they'll have to do as I say. But it's still early in the day, everything isn't quite ready.'"

>>537310

"This eminently sensible plan is the "ruin" which Prince Felix saw facing Russia. He never explains why. In fact, his justifications for the murder are puerile even by his own modest standards; he says that "To spare [Rasputin's] life only meant increasing the number of war victims and prolonging the country's misery." At this distance, it's difficult to see how an early peace, no matter how hasty or disadvantageous for Russia, could possibly have resulted in anything worse than what happened later, when the endless slaughter and feckless leadership of Nikolai II yielded Lenin and the Civil War.

For the Prince, the matter is simple -- a question of breeding, tailoring and bigotry. Rasputin is evil because he was "just an uncultured, cynical, avid, and unscrupulous peasant." If further proof of his evil is required, Felix offers Rasputin's wardrobe and grooming habits: "with his caftan, baggy breeches, and great top-boots he looked exactly what he was -- a peasant. He had a low, common face..."

Further proof is provided by the claim that Rasputin kept company with Jews and Germans, as Prince Felix ascertains by a bit of eavesdropping: "I could see [Rasputin]...surrounded by seven shady-looking men. Four of them were of a distinctly Jewish type, the other three were fair and curiously alike in appearance [i.e. Germans]....They looked like a group of conspirators."

And perhaps they were. But if they were in fact plotting to make an early peace, they were Russia's last hope -- no matter what their motives. And by exerting intelligent determination for the first and last time in his foolish life in the effort to kill Rasputin and keep Russia in the war, Prince Felix made a great contribution to the destruction of the world he loved. And the blathering idiot is too dim even to see it. "

>>536789
If you ask lefties they'll say that it was unfortunate but necessary so yes. I'd say that if given the opportunity they'd pull the trigger themselves but modern lefties think a gun will come to life and murder you if you look at it so they'd never be able to do it.

>>537310
Actually Felix was such a ridiculous character and illustrates the Russian aristocracy so well I can't resist quoting the mudslinging in full:


"Imagine Salnikov as a pre-Revolutionary aristocrat, and you'll have a good idea of Youssoupoff's character. Like many of the finest literary narrators of the early twentieth century, he was an exhibitionistic, androgynous brat whose early interests were terrorizing guests and servants. He describes with an indulgent chuckle the music teacher "...whose finger I bit so savagely that the poor woman was unable to play the piano for a year." Aiming higher, the little prince's next victim was Grand Duke Michael, who liked to watch Youssoupoff and his brother play tennis. With his uncanny instinct for doing the greatest harm possible, Youssoupoff hit a return which "...struck the Grand Duke in the eye with such violence that one of the greatest specialists in Moscow had to be called in to save the eye."

Little Felix grew up in one of the wealthiest families in Russia. His great-great-grandfather, Prince Nicolas Borissovitch, was a classic Russian aristocrat who used his thousands of Serfs as breed stock for concubines. Choosing only the best stock, the Prince outfitted an entire corps de ballet, which was trained to respond to his every gesture: "...when the whole ballet was on stage the Prince waved his cane and suddenly all the dancers appeared completely naked." No wonder ballet was so much more popular in those days.

Youssoupoff has a charming pride in the family's vampiric past, ending his account of great-great-grandfather's career with the boast that "his last intrigue was with a girl of eighteen. He was then eighty."

>>537347

The family grew somewhat more discreet by Felix's time, but retained the habit of doing things on a grand scale. Prince Felix mentions in passing that "one of our estates in the Caucasus stretched for 125 miles along the Caspian Sea...." He fondly recalls travelling through Russia, from one vast estate to another, in the family's private railway car, and playing with a tray of precious stones on display in the parlor. Mealtimes presented difficulties on a typically vast scale: "One of my father's whims consisted in continually changing rooms. Almost every day we dined in a different room, and this complicated the table service to an uncommon degree. [My brother] Nicolas and I, who were often late, were sometimes obliged to run all over the house before discovering where dinner was being served."

When Youssoupoff alludes to his father's "whims," he's indulging in one of his rare understatements. Like most of the family, Youssoupoff Senior was insane -- cheerfully, unashamedly mad, as were most of the members of Russia's social elite. As epicted in these memoirs, pre-Revolutionary Russia's aristocratic and Royal society was one huge well-dressed lunatic asylum. Youssoupoff describes the rampant lunacy of family and friends with the same nostalgic savor he brings to his youthful sadism. His grandmother's assorted manias included "...breeding silkworms. The worms overran the house; they crawled all over the armchairs, and our guests would squash them when they sat down, and of course ruined their clothes."

Prince Felix's obsession with clothes fills the book. He attributes a diplomatic break between England and Russia to the fact that "King Edward, who had neglected to try on the Russian uniform in which he was to meet the Czar, discovered it was so tight he could not button it...so the King went to lunch...in a state of semi-suffocation and in a very bad temper."

>>537351

The Prince's interest in dressing up soon becomes a passion for cross-dressing. An ordinary middle-class child might settle for prancing before the mirror in his mother's dresses. Felix has bigger plans; at the age of twelve, he and a cousin, "made up, adorned with jewelry and muffled in fur-lined velvet pelisses," troll the nightclubs of Petersburg, attracting the lustful glances of half the officer corps.

Soon the game has become a way of life: "by day I was a schoolboy and by night an elegant woman." This leads the Prince to spike the rumors which have always surrounded him: "I have often been accused of disliking women. Nothing could be further from the truth." His disavowal is somewhat less than convincing: "But I must admit that I have met very few among them who answered to my ideal of womanhood. Generally speaking, I have found among men the loyalty and disinterestedness which I think most women lack."

At this point in his development, Prince Felix hardly seems like a future assassin. He does all the things expected of a decadent young man with unlimited funds and status: tours the Continent, smokes opium in a Parisian den, enrolls at Oxford and generally whoops it up, in drag or mufti.

He betrays no interest in or knowledge of Russian politics or ideological disputes. When he mentions these topics at all, the results are painful, as when he tells us that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was first uncovered in the library of "one of our near neighbors, Countess Kleinmichel" -- implying, apparently, that anything discovered on the premises of so distinguished a lady must be authentic. "

>>537355

When Felix attempts to describe the opening of the Duma in 1906, his obsession with sartorial and ignorance of ideological issues yields a description which is pure Salnikov -- if Salnikov had been transported back a century: "It was the first time that [the Winter Palace] had ever seen such a mixed crowd of queerly dressed people." Yes, that's the problem with democracy: it's far, far too demokratichnii. In hindsight, it's clear what caused all the horrors of the Russian Revolution: lack of adequate Face Kontrol at that first session of the Duma.

At times Felix sounds exactly like one of Saki's coyly witty aesthetes, as when he orders a black carpet, which "set a fashion in London -- it even became the cause of a divorce. An Englishwoman ordered one against her husband's wish. He considered it funereal: 'Either me or the carpet,' he said, which was rash, because she chose the carpet."

>>537356

To the extent that the young Felix has any abstract interests, they lean toward the occult. While riding back to the estate one night, he and his brother see a phantom railway train; in London he sees a hazy cloud around those who are fated to die soon; and so on, at tedious length. These anecdotes are worthwhile only because they show how deeply Russia's elite was steeped in puerile superstition long before Rasputin showed up to exploit the market. The mystical nonsense which ended Nicolas and Alexandra's reign marked its beginning as well; Youssoupoff says that the Tsarina's disastrous influence was foretold when, at her coronation, "...one of her women pricked her finger on the clasp of the Imperial cloak, and that a drop of blood fell on the ermine." Before Petersburg had ever heard of Rasputin, ladies of the Royal family worshipped another charlatan, the French mystic Philippe. Youssoupoff, who has the typical aristocratic facility with family anecdote, describes how his father, encountering a Grand Duchess riding with Philippe, bowed, only to be ignored: "Meeting her by chance a few days later, he asked her why she had cut him. 'You couldn't have seen me,' said the Grand Duchess, 'for I was with Dr. Philippe, and when he wears a hat he is invisible and so are those who are with him.'" With Russia's future in the hands of this intellectual elite, one can hardly wonder that the twentieth century turned out so well for it.

>>536907
She's wearing false teeth and making a funny face. Just being a kid.

By the way, you can read his memoirs for yourself here:

http://www.alexanderpalace.org/lostsplendor/

>>536907
She was well known as mischievous and a prankster so making a goofy face when getting her picture taken seems like something she'd do.

>>536789
Yeah... monarchies are leaches of society.

No, and only a deluded sociopath could justify murder as ever being 'moral.'

t. leftist

>>537161
But why? Why is the monarch so much more important as a human being? What gives him this power?

>>537481
God.

>>536789
No. But you can't say it wasn't their fault.

>>537091
>if they weren't killed they would become rallying points for the Whites/royalists which would upset Bolshevik attempts to establish power
>also nobility is an inherently evil concept
>NO ONE'S LIVES MATTER MORE
>t. American Bourgeois College Communist

>>537091

It's almost as though they're actually blood thirsty psychopaths and sadists who dress up cold blooded murder as 'struggle' to trick people into thinking they're not.

I love how edgy /pol/aks suddenly turn into humanitarians when it comes to things da ebul gommies did.

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>>536789

Absolutely 100%. They were oppressors of the proletariat.

>>536907
She has the hairstyle of 80's rocker chick.

>>537036
>Nicky wasn't there
>agitators stuff up shit
But muh glorious revolutionaries dindu nuffin

>>537481
Because a monarch or any head of state has power, even if nicky was a bad tsar he is still better than a peasant, if you kill a peasant you wont change much, but kill a powerfull man and things will change, you put a peasant in power and you get retarded shit like communism.

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>Noble parasites
>Not deserving it

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>there are Republicans in this thread right now who rationalise the murder of children
Not even surprised.

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>>537745
>There are monarchists in this thread who actually believe the tsar was benevolent and cared for his subjects
top laff

King George V did not deserve to die.

>>537754
>communist scum continues to defend murder of children
This is how you know who really is in the wrong.

>>537754
Better the tsar than the komissar.

They deserved it for being noble, haughty scum.

I hope the people attempted to justify the massacre of human beings in the name of a stupid movement are just baiting

>>536789
>Did they deserve the end they got?
The real question is did we?
The striking down of the Tsar and the Revolution had ramifications that are still being felt today, we can not say that we would be in the same position today had we not overtaken the Russian throne.
The monarchy was in decline that's a given, but a violent Revolution done by the ones who did it and with the ideology they did it under.
Perhaps had another group shifted the power or less violently overtaken the Tsar, perhaps we would be better off.

>>537804
They're not.

Keep in mind that /his/ is basically /leftypol/ and reddit all rolled into one.

>>537103
It doesn't matter that the Romanovs died. It was Tsar Nicholas II's own damn fault for not seeing it coming and playing his cards correctly. The little girls hardly matter, either, considering the scale of destruction that preceded their deaths—it was little more than a flash in the pan.

What you are trying to do is justify it, though. You are every bit as much of a sentimental arguerer as he is. The Communist Revolution was not a proletariat movement for the betterment of the country. It was a coup d'etat, period. International finance funded if and brought Russia to its knees. Considering the gulags and forced starvations that followed, communism was far worse than the Tsars. The Tsars weren't good guys, but they were sure as hell no were near as maliciously intent on subjugating and destroying Russia as Marx, Trotsky, and Jacob Schiff were. I don't doubt there was a vengeful attitude due to the Pale of Settlement.

>>536789
Not really but Nicholas II basically brought it on himself by being an idiot.

>>537810
>all of /his/ is just the posts I don't like
there's still a fair amount of contention here

Imagine all the eeeeeeeee in that basement from all those mosins going off at once?

>>537329
>modern lefties think a gun will come to life and murder you if you look at it

Not the same kind of "lefties". Can we stop pretending that left and right are good labels to describe contemporaneous political thought?

>>537537
This 100%. Bunch of hypocritical asses.

>>537804
>of a stupid movement
You mistyped "the emancipation of humanity" there.

>>537329
>Marxist-Leninists and American liberals have the same political ideology.
lol

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>Upon this, one has to remark that men ought either to be well treated or crushed, because they can avenge themselves of lighter injuries, of more serious ones they cannot; therefore the injury that is to be done to a man ought to be of such a kind that one does not stand in fear of revenge.

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>all these edgy e-communists getting buttmad and defensive

>>536915
Wouldn't Alexei possibly become a figurehead for the counter-revolutionaries, though?
The girls would be less of a threat.

>>537537
>>538173
>/board/ is one person
stop this shit.

>>538231
It's true tho. When you as a /pol/tard about why they hate communism (or whatever shit they hate) they always argue with equivalents of "muh 20 gorillion!".

Pathetic.

>>538247
When I go on /pol/ and ask why they don't like communism, I get a bunch of different answers typically including several people who don't.
You claiming that they all believe the same thing is no different from people among their group who say so about you.

>>538266
I know I am generalizing. But is a rather good generalization that describes pretty well the general consensus of that bunch of retards.

>>538277
Your strawman is not a consensus.

>>538287
Your post is not an argument.

>>538290
If you want to drag things down to speaking about semantics, go to /b/.

>>538295
>go to /b/
No u.

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>>536832
>being this mad
>supporting nobility

Kek.

>>536789
While they did deserve a punishment for their exploitation, the manner in which they were killed was unneeded to say the least

>>536814
The question was "did they deserve it?"

>>538322
>for their exploitation
What exploitation?

>>538322
>was unneeded
It was necessary to end with the loyalist cause. If anyone of the family survived the loyalist would have him/her as the next monarch to be crowned.

>>538359
You think they built their palaces by themselves?

There ain't no such thing as a free banquet. Someone had to work for that.

>>538407
I assume they paid the masons...

The people who built the Peterburg palaces were far better compensated than the poor liberated souls who built the white sea canal.

"Deserve" has nothing to do with it.

>>537712
If power matters more than the well-being of the peasantry, Stalin is the leader for you.

He gave fuck'all over the well-being of the illiterate masses, but, boy-oh-boy, did he make a name for himself.

>>538311
>unironically wanting to stay a pleb

you're the joke friend

>>537357
>they show how deeply Russia's elite was steeped in puerile superstition long before Rasputin showed up to exploit the market.
That's nothing.

The post-revolutionary elite actually believed in communism.

>>538448
I never said peasantry, i said peasant, its absurd to say that all lives are equal, losing a person capable of influence and power is a greater loss to society than some nameless neet.

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>>536870
>members of the royal family were active in helping the poor and setting up charities helping the poor and injured war veterans

>Send millions to die in an imperialist war
>Hey its alright they gave a pitance of thier wealth to look after veterans who came back

Its like breaking someones leg, then giving them crutches and telling them that if it wasnt for you they wouldn't be able to walk.

The Tzar got off easy considering the suffering he inflicted

>>538469
How far does this line of reasoning go, in your opinion? Are beautiful women inherently more worthwhile than average ones? Should the punishment for rape or murder depend on the looks and influence of the victim?

>>538488
Youre takig shit out of context

>>538474
Imperialism? They were honoring their treaty with Serbia. Your reputation would be bad if you didn't

>>538606
I don't see how. His argument is basically some people are better than others. On its face this is understandable, but when he says it is more immoral for one person to be killed than another, it makes me wonder. I don't see why you can't extrapolate that concept to a more mundane situation. What am I taking out of context in your view?

>>538474

I don't see why a monarchy sending millions to do is worse than a republic doing exactly the same

>>538474

I don't see why a monarchy sending millions to die is worse than a republic doing exactly the same

>>538664
>>538665
Not worse, not better.

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>>536907
>3.51mb image
u admin?

>>538656
>Imperialism? They were honoring their treaty with Serbia. Your reputation would be bad if you didn't

They didnt have a treaty with Serbia though.

>>536789
No. Innocent people never deserve to die. The Tsar was not a saint, but his end was unwarranted.

That being said, the Romanovs have gotten more attention than their murders warrant. Literal millions died in the Russian Civil War, but we care most about a single family because of their wealth.

>>536832
>parasites

You're literally supporting people who are only wealthy because of their pedigree

>>538946
Not to mention that the Great Powers made treaties with minor powers for imperialist purposes anyway.

>>536789
yes

>>538474
>The Tzar got off easy considering the suffering he inflicted
Whoa, easy there comrade. Your view may fly in the drum circle but in the real world people will rightfully call you a retard.

>>539043
It doesnt mean much when the people considering you retards think that Russia got involved in WWI because of a "treaty" with Serbia.

>>536789
Did the czar? Maybe. Did his wife and children who had exactly nothing to do with public policy? No, of course not.

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>>536789
For once, it was something they hadn't stole.

>>538474
>Send millions to die in an imperialist war
>Send
Do you have any idea how many volunteered to die for their country? How many millions of men willingly went of to battle? For Russia, for the motherland, for the Tsar.

But of course, a person like you could never understand patriotism, or self-sacrifice.

>>539438
You're a self-righteous dick.

>>538007
All of my this.

>>536814
>A warring soldier is killed in battle
>Defenceless girls being executed

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>>539509
>self-righteous

The universe literally does not care if these girls died. A little girl's going to watch her mother be killed tonight and a man's going to die on the way back from work, why do the deaths of a few resonate so hardly with some people.

As historians we do not look at historical events and say "should this or shouldn't this have happened", we say "this happened; why? What? Where? How?"

It annoys me how political this board has become.

>>539438
>Do you have any idea how many volunteered to die for their country? How many millions of men willingly went of to battle?

Not enough given the need to coerce them with conscription. Not only that later in the war there were riots over it.

Additionally huge numbers of these "patriotic" soldiers defected to the Gommies which created huge enlisted:officer ratios amoungst the whites.

>For Russia, for the motherland, for the Tsar.

Thier participation in the Great War destroyed Russia and created the conditions that allowed Bolshevism to take root.

>>539552
>Not only that later in the war there were riots over it.
precisely. later. As in, at the start of it all there was overwhelming support for the war. The people of Russia didn't object to the Tsar taking them into the war, they just objected to losing it.

>Thier participation in the Great War destroyed Russia and created the conditions that allowed Bolshevism to take root.
Firstly, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Secondly, it still doesn't change the fact that the Tsar did not force his country into war.

>>539550
>It annoys me how political this board has become.
History is politics. You can only chose to do it openly or hypocritically.

>>539550
because some people aren't heartless, no one here is saying the death of these children is any more significant then the loss of any other noncombatant life, and frankly if you don't like the discussion, you don't need to come in here to contribute nothing except your scorn and opinion.

>>539550
>the "universe" doesn't care so we as people shouldn't care

lol. this attitude will just breed more child killing soldiers

>>539573

>history is politics

Says you.

>>539576
>some people aren't heartless

Literally the biggest cop out answer ever. Every time I hear this, it's used to justify some idiotic standpoint. Firstly, to be "heartless" is a complete matter of subjectivity. Secondly, don't use that self-righteous bullshit when attempting to cry over the deaths of someone who has existed for 100 years.

All these crocodile tears just mask your ulterior motives of attempting to attack another group of people who haven't existed for some time.

>>539591

>I delude myself into thinking there's a global spirit who cares if I die so I feel the world is a better place

Grow up.

>>539594
only group I'm attacking are women and child killers, don't even mention commies, a lot of people have done it and its all bullshit, how do men fall so far that they think its okay to murder noncoms?

>>539596
way to miss the point.

>>536789
Nicolas II was the only one who remotely deserved anything, because I am a soft heart I would have kept him imprisoned for life, maybe brainwash him into supporting communism and calling for the surrender of the white russians and other hostiles.

The others basically lived in their own little world. Imagine if someone from /jp/ had absolute power over a region and decided they wanted an idyllic family with a waifu. Their waifu would be raised to delight the neckbeard dictator and believe everything he wants is good, his children would be raised to impress their father and be good fedora tipping atheists. They would know virtually nothing about what was going on in the rest of the world.

>>536915
Because Alexei had political power--he was the heir to the throne and not just a possible rallying point but someone who could be put on the throne, so to speak. The daughters had no political power in Russia, therefore an execution could not be remotely justified.

>>539604

>if you don't outright condone this act, you support murdering people

Stop this shit. Only a few communists in this thread have voiced their support for it. I am not one of them.

You cannot take the moral high ground in history. You literally aren't able to. So I suggest you take your white knight bullshit elsewhere, because it certainly won't bring these girls back.

>>539630
I'm taking the moral high ground when it comes to killing innocents , no matter what the period, or nation, or "side"

>>539568
>precisely. later. As in, at the start of it all there was overwhelming support for the war. The people of Russia didn't object to the Tsar taking them into the war, they just objected to losing it.

The fact that this support faded so quickly

>Firstly, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Ignoring the lessons of of 1904 and making the decision to personally leave for the front to personally control the army (and leave the court in the hands of his wife and Rasputin) were horrid mistake that needed no hindsight.

>Tsar did not force his country into war.
Actually he did, his decision to press on with mobilizing during the july crisis is what tipped Germany's hand and got them to declare war. Had he not done this there would have been no world war.

>>539594
So where are people saying the death of the Romonov family means that combatant deaths don't matter?

>>539632

Oh you're so righteous, my man. A paragon of virtue. Even Jesus himself would kiss your feet!

>>539635
*The fact that this support faded so quickly and conscription was so important is a big demonstration that he most definetley was sending them rather than rallying them as you hold

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>>536789
Do you think any of the girls lost their virtue to the guards before their untimely demise?

>>539640
and you're edgy as fuck.

>>539638

There was a guy in this thread saying that deaths of nobility meant a lot more than any death of a peasant.

In fact he said it here:

>>538469

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>>539635
>Actually he did, his decision to press on with mobilizing during the july crisis is what tipped Germany's hand and got them to declare war. Had he not done this there would have been no world war.

>Germany was only responding to Russia's mobilisation
>Germany was only defending itself
Oh, I get it, you're an idiot.

>>539647

>anything that doesn't agree with my subjective view of the world is edgy

Lel

>>539655
>the ethics of murdering defenseless civilians and noncoms is subjective

>>539659

No no. You don't get to divert this to that. We're looking a perceiving historical events. Not whether we agree with them or not.

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>disregarding the millions of other victims, most of whom weren't even nobles

Remember children, never let Jewish Marxists take you alive. Even if they win an election. When the time comes for your family to be shot on the decree of some subhuman filth who wears a kippah in secret, you be the one to fire first, even if you're certain to lose.

>>539654
>Germany was only responding to Russia's mobilisation
>Germany was only defending itself
Oh, I get it, you're an idiot.

I never said that Germany acted in self defense. Are you actually familiar with the July Crisis and the events that led to the actual declarations of war outside of the assassination?

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How I wish the United States and the British Empire would have fought at Germany's side to destroy the Soviet Union. At the very least, neutrality should have been declared. One thing I find particularly unforgivable is how George V refused asylum to the Romanov family because he was too concerned with his image according to the British public.

>>539725
yes, and if you had more than a superficial knowledge of those events you'd know that Germany was bent on war no matter what, especially with Russia. All that would have happened if Russia hadn't mobilised when she did was that Germany would have taken half the fortified points on the western frontier before reinforcements could be brought in.

>>539736
>One thing I find particularly unforgivable is how George V refused asylum to the Romanov family because he was too concerned with his image according to the British public
So did he. He never really got over it.

Also, when you say 'he was concerned about his image', while technically true it doesn't really convey the fact that a lot of people in the British government at the time thought that there was a very real possibility of a revolution in Britain, which would only be exacerbated if the British monarch offered asylum to an autocratic tyrant.

>>539762
>yes, and if you had more than a superficial knowledge of those events you'd know that Germany was bent on war no matter what, especially with Russia. All that would have happened if Russia hadn't mobilised when she did was that Germany would have taken half the fortified points on the western frontier before reinforcements could be brought in.

Given German conduct in the previous crises there doesnt seem much to suggest this. Had Russia not began mobilizing it would have just been a case of either Austria taking over Serbia or Austria getting bogged down to the point that it would agree to the international mediation.

>>539774
It could have been done in secret. The imbalance in information between the people and the government was greater back then and press censorship was a frequent practice.

>>538961
Or you know, they are born to rule.

>>539774
>tyrant
I want revolutionaries off this board.

>>539509
Nice argument, bro!

>>537310
>>537313
>Rasputin
>dead

>>538454
topkek

I didn't see Nicholas as a bad people like the rulers to come but he was never interested in being the leader of Russia, was a weak leader, economically destroyed the country and was stupid enough to have a crazy ass guy like Rasputin help advise and rule the country while he went away to help lead Russia in WWI. OF course the Bolsheviks were ruthless and showed it when they murdered the Romanov family, so no they didn't deserve it.

>>538227
Nah, the girls were threats. Look at Catherine The Great. Russia had a history of female monarchs too.

>>536877
Literally the only reason the Royal Family wasn't pushing to grant vast rights to the poor is because Alexander II (who abolished serfdom and gave the former serfs land of their own, carved out of the holdings of the aristocracy) was assassinated--by socialist revolutionaries--, when his grandson and furture Czar Nicholas was 13, on the day before he was give peasants state representation (he had already given them their own courts of law). So there was massive paranoia and clampdown.

Russia had the potential to be the first advanced state that skipped over modernism; once serfdom was abolished, the monarchy being opponents being the business class meant that they would be natural allies of the working class. Russian cosmism was actually showing that science and religion went hand-in-hand. The poor all loved the Czar, they thought of him as their father, and it was the Czar they went to when they felt mistreated. Bloody Sunday (the petitioners were lead by an Orthodox priest, by the way, an explicitly excluded revolutionaries from their ranks) was a massive tragedy, and had nothing to do with the Czar's orders at all (he wasn't even present, which the petitioners didn't know).

Basically, the mainstream socialists of Russia were always cancer, and they screwed over the workers more than anyone else. Dostoevsky, himself a socialist who did years in prison for his politics, knew this better than anyone.

>>536840
they couldnt
long after the revolution, after soviets taking over european powers were STILL desperately trying to find royal family member who they could use to start shit with

everyone in that family had to go

>>536926
>Two or three of the princessess were protected by the amount of jewellery they were wearing
Bullshit. No amount of jewelry can stop a rifle bullet.

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>>537537
>anyone who is against communism and murder is a /pol/ack

>>537537

Nazism is /pol/
Fascism is /pol/
Capitalism is /pol/
Libertarianism is /pol/
Reaction is /pol/
Religion is /pol/
Monarchism is /pol/

Basically anything that isn't outright marxism / socialism, can be dismissed as /pol/.

Hence further proof that certain people want to use /his/ as a marxist echo chamber and a safe space from anything they don't like.

>>541056

>implying it doesn't go both ways

Try deviating slightly from /pol/-accepted doctrine and just count the posts calling you a SJW, a liberal, a faggot, a niggerlover, a race traitor, etc

>>541087
Was I defending /pol/ you monumental retard? I'm not a /pol/ack in any way other than your idiotic fantasies, as I don't even frequent that board.

>>541087
Hello JIDF

>>541087

>say something I don't like
>must be /pol/ and/or reddit and/or b

Stop saying things I don't like!

Come on at least you could go over to /pol/ and read the sticky. You might learn something.

>>541056
>>>/pol/

You Nazis are annoying as hell

You killed 6000000 people

>>541087
Except this board should be open to discussion rather than being a reverse /pol/ like you idiots would want it to be.

>>536789

They got a small dose of what they did to other people.

>>541134
>collective guilt is a thing
>little kids should be punished for the crimes of their ancestors

You're literally a nazi

>>540994
Bullets can't pierce diamonds.

>>541145
If a hammer swung by human muscles can smash one, a 7.62x54r certainly can. It can also easily penetrate the metal holding the diamonds, not to mention I don't think their faces were covered in diamonds.

>>541056

Actually it is the particularly shitty, poorly articulated posts often combined with idiotic /pol/ memes that people object to.

It isn't your views, it is the fact you drag every thread you are in down with stupidity.

>>541165
>le stupidity argument

Timeless marxist defense.

>>541167

I'm not a Marxist, or even left wing and thank you for amply demonstrating what I talking about.

>>541172
Except you weren't talking about anything specific, especially in relation to that poster.

>>541167

>"you're a marxist if you don't agree with my politics"

Just fuck off, holy shit.

Daily reminder that if you call a monarchist a nazi you are retarded

They literally consider them as bad as the reds

>>541179
You're American, aren't you?

>>541183

I am not.

>>541140

I didn't say they deserved it, except for the members of the family that exercised any political power, which means any that were younger than teen-aged.

You can't deny that what happened to the Russian royal family was a percent of a percent of what the Russian royal family did to the Russian people.

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>>541231
>You can't deny that what happened to the Russian royal family was a percent of a percent of what the Russian royal family did to the Russian people.

Exactly, they all had to die for the good of the workers, even the children.

>>539721
>muh 20 gorillion!

Someone please explain to me in bulletpoints what Nicholas did to deserve what happened to them.

Pro-tip: You cant.

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>>541418

>reactionary
>counter
>mother
>fucking
>revolutionary

>>541449
Typical commie. Can't give me valid reasons.

>Editorials about how Waifustasia might have survived!!
>This one random lady might be her!!
>Decades later
>Nah she really did die lol

Shit story would not subscribe

>>541449
So basically he was guilty of not liking things you like, gotcha.

>>536926
But sholdnt the knives not be able to penetrate her flesh due to her priveleged pedigree unlike the proletarit?

>>540947
>long after the revolution, after soviets taking over european powers were STILL desperately trying to find royal family member who they could use to start shit with

Source?

>>540994
Not bullshit. They had sewn hundreds of diamonds and other jewels into their corsets, which acted as a barrier.

From the executioner Yurovsky's account:

>They shot the daughters but did not kill them. Then Yermakov resorted to a bayonet, but that did not work either. Finally they killed them by shooting them in the head. Only in the forest did I finally discover the reason why it had been so hard to kill the daughters and Alexandra Feodrovna. ....

>When we began to undress the bodies, we discovered something on the daughters and on Alexandra Feodrovna. I do not remember exactly what she had on, the same as on the daughters or simply things that had been sewed on. But the daughters had on bodices almost entirely of diamonds and [other] precious stones. Those were not only places for valuables but protective armor at the same time. That is why neither bullets nor bayonets got results.

>>541161
>not to mention I don't think their faces were covered in diamonds.

Which is why eventually had to be shot in the head to kill them.

>commies go out of their way to defend a massacre

Although what makes me despise them is the fact they actually think they are morally superior. All of the left is like this, btw.

Thread theme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHjItxQq5cI

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>>542072
>communists are so completely retarded they have trouble killing a little girl

And there you have people in this very thread trusting these fucktards with managing the economy

>>541544
>Waifustasia

All of my keks, good sir!

>>542074
What do you expect senpai? To them anything is excusable if it suits the end goal of creating a slave society where everyone is equally miserable. Genocide? It was an accident. If they'd just listened and given up their property and rights, it wouldn't have happened. Brutal murder of children? They had to go because they could have been a problem later. Severe distortion of facts? It was for a good cause, so it's okay to lie. One need look no further than their idols Alinsky and Zinn to see that these principles are at the very foundation of their movement.

>>542127
I know and saw of all that kouhai, it's just that it never ceases to amaze me how deep their heads are in their asses.

>>542097
Leftists are like Creationists. They are so divorced from reality by their bitterness and envious natures that they would reject the sun at noon if they thought it might inconvenience someone more successful than them.

>>536789
Yes.
>>536832
Please just die. And before that, read something about the tsar's incompetence.

The Tsar took action to address the riots by wiring garrison commander General Khablov to deplete the crowds with rifle fire... Historian Ian Beckett suggests around 12,000 of the soldiers could be regarded as reliable, but even these proved reluctant to fire on the demonstrators, both out of fellow feeling and because the crowds included so many women. Police armed with machine guns were placed in the upper stories of buildings throughout the city, but mutiny soon broke out... The Tsar ordered the army to suppress the rioting by force, troops began to mutiny and join the protesters.
http://www.un.org/en/events/womensday/history.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_Revolution#cite_ref-27

> Order soldiers to shoot protesting women with machine guns
> Deserves nothing but violent death

He and his wife did, but the children didn't. I understand why they had to be taken out, but they still didn't deserve it.

>>543085
>I understand why they had to be taken out
Could you explain it to me?

Also, could you explain how Nicholas deserved death more than the Bolsheviks?

>Tfw Tatiana and Maria were such qts
What a waste fucking communist scum

>>543097
European Monarchies would have sought out anyone of Romanov blood in order to restore the family to power. The Bolsheviks knew this, and wouldn't allow the slightest bit of leverage against their new government. It's brutal, it's ugly, but it's also pure politics.

>>543097
Well, because his regime killed tens of thousands of people, and impoverished the nation.

If you were in Poland or the Baltics at the time of the punitive expeditions in 1905, and you found out that people were crying over the royal family, you wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Communism wasn't any better, but that doesn't mean he didn't deserve it.

>>543149
This is right. They had to die, it's just politics. The way they did it was a bit unnecessary though, with a shitty firing squad then bayoneting the kids before shooting them in the heads

>>543158
>Wife and children who had no say in his incompetent rule deserved it

>>543149
Ah, so you think they stopped supporting the whites after the Romanov family was murdered?

>>543158
Bolsheviks killed way more people than the Romanovs ever did, and the famines under them were far more destructive.

Alexander II liberated the serfs, and even carved them up land of their own from the aristocracy's holdings (he also gave them their own courts of law and was on the eve of giving them state representation when he was assassinated by socialists). The Bolsheviks basically rolled back all those reforms, they took away the land from all the liberated serfs and made them serfs again.

>>543197
>you think they stopped supporting the whites after the Romanov family was murdered?
No, and I think it's pretty disingenuous of you to say that.

It's simply far easier to reinstate an establish royal family than it is to create a new one, specifically one already friendly and agreeable to Western interests. The Bolsheviks final step in planting their flag was winning the war. And they did.

>>543272
I doubt most of the whites were even royalists.

>>543149
>European Monarchies would have sought out anyone of Romanov blood in order to restore the family to power.

Ooookay. But there were surviving Romanovs. Lots of them. So, why didn't the European monarchies do what you said they would do?

Trotsky, on Lenin&co's reasoning for the execution:

"The execution of the tsar and his family was necessary not simply to scare, horrify and deprive of the enemy of hope, but also to shake up our own ranks, show them that there was no going back."

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>>543351

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>>543063
>read something about the tsar's incompetence.
>tsars incompetence
>incompetence
>MFW A commie talks to me about incompetence

>>536789
>Do innocent children deserve to be shot to pieces

I'd hope nobody on this site would say yes, but knowing 4chan, there's probably somebody who thought that was the right choice. Try the father for his crimes in a court of law, and not a Kangaroo court. Leave the children out of it.

>>543162
Did I say that anywhere in that post?

>>543364
Man Russia is such a shithole.

They were in the way of the revolution, so yes.

>>536789
No.
But it was necessary.

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>>543412

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>>541418

>Indifferent to the suffering of his subjects
>Let a hobo bumblefuck make decisions for him
>Thought fucking with Japan was a good idea
>Thought fighting in the first world war was a good idea
>Mishandled the popular insurrection that was working against him
>Was an all-around fucktard who failed Russia and let the gommies, an even greater evil, take over

His family didn't deserve the fate they got, but I don't feel particularly bad for him.

>>543373

>Implying I'm a gommie
It was one tyranny being traded in for another. The monarchy got overthrown because the gommies were slightly less incompetent and a bit more cunning.

>>543373
If we define competence as the ability to achieve your own goals, Stalin was the better autocrat.

People starved before and after. People got shot at before and after. But the communist government achieved more global projection than monarchist Russia ever did and Stalin held more control over the masses than the czar did.

There was no incompetence, only cruelty.

>>536789
This thread again?

Is this some kind of study? or experiment?

>>543752
Stalin yeah, but Lenin and Trotsky were the definition of incompetence.

>>543622
See, shithole. America and really all of Western Europe are vastly superior nations.

>>545923
All of Eastern Europe as well. And most of Asia.

>>536789
Not really, they were fairly normal guys even if Nikolas was an awful leader.

However the fact that it happened wasn't a great crime on the part of the soviets, he's very understanable on their part.

>>545880
Trotsky more or less won the communists the civil war. He was the exact opposite of incompetent.

>>545958
Look at the Soviet - Polish war before saying anything about Trotsky. He was a low IQ fuckwad.

>>545960
It was Trotsky that was behind the complete and total mobilization of the communists on all fronts.

Sure, they lost in Poland. But they won the significantly more important war in Russia.

>>537735
/thread

>>538656
You don't even know what imperialism means.

>>537735
Robespierre was a noble.

>>536789
of course
but
do the word deserve the revolution russia got?
YES

>>536789
No.

>>537735
This anon says this, but will defend the Jewish parasite till his last breath.