That is fairly accurate, but one has to wonder if they would have even been able to really take over Japan regardless. What really sucks is that the Mongol invasions essentially led to the fall of the Kamakura Shogunate.
>>536552 To do so with an army, it would have been too difficult to manage and would have simply slowed down their advance to the point where both Europeans and south east Asians would have stomped them good.
>>535530 The forces that made it ashore were getting their asses kicked long before the Kamikaze. Kamikaze just made sure their losses went from "minor embarrassment" to "holy shit all my gook mercenaries are dead"
The Japanese had a stronger navy than the Mongols. Throughout history, we learn that it is better to be lucky than good, but in this case Japan was both. A storm occurred which drew the Mongols off, and combine the power of the navy meant no invasion in Japan. As for the other parts of southeast Asia, the Yuan dynasty (or the Mongol reign of China) had mass famine, and many people (manpower) died. My guess is that there just wasn't enough people who supported Mongol cause in the conquering of the world in China.
>>538096 the japs did well in the second invasion but they got destroyed in the early skirmishes of the first invasion before the kamikaze since there was no living japanese commander who had experience fighting in a real war.
>>539339 Unless the HRE got their shit together, and made a united stand with support from France, the Iberian, and maybe england. I highly doubt they would have withstood a full scale mongol invasion. Hungary got pushed into croatia before the mongols retreated, and Poland also got their shit kicked before the mongols retreated iirc. Problem with Europe was that they would have had to dig pretty far into Germany, or to Italy for any real loot. It was just more beneficial to trade with europe as a bunch of border states.
I understand if you guys like to hop on Mongol dick to say that they could beat everyone but they couldn't. Similar nomadic invasions have occurred many times and Western Europe has repelled them all. Hungary had extremely different terrain than much of Western Europe at the time, much more open and much more susceptible to nomadic style invasions, this was the same with Russia. The Mongolian army never numbered more than I believe 150,000 if I do recall, and to say that they would have been able to combat the Western Europeans on their home turf is just absurd. Germany's climate would have fucked things up for the Mongols alone. This, coupled with the numerous thousands of castles and forts the Europeans had (which even with the siege tactics the Mongols had it would have taken forever for them to capture even a few) would have made Europe near impossible to conquer, that's not even including the zealotism which would have united Europe much like it did in the Crusades, even more so if it was on their home turf. Could you imagine how all of Europe would have reacted if they saw their holy sites being put at risk?
A fair point. No soldiers or general had any real military experience at the time, so I could certainly see a case being made for the Mongols winning out against Japan.
It's hard to really say one way or the other, because Japan definitely had the defensive advantage, and I count the ocean/storms as part of that advantage. A lot of Japanese military leaders were still very competent, even if they had seen no real battle at the time.
China had huge castle cities that could stand sieges for years, a hard terrain and climate for the Mongolians and a much larger population with much larger armies (much, much larger). In the 13th century, Chinese armies were not inferior to European ones in quality (the decline only happened later).
Mongols also defeated quite easily Hungary, Poland and the Russians.
The problem with China when the Mongols invaded wasn't the quality of the armies, or how defensible the country was, but at the time China was under TERRIBLE governmental control. The Song were so terribly afraid of military generals being able to overthrow their dynasty, they they effectively made the Chinese military completely useless, unable to perform any military actions without direct permission from the Imperial Court.
Besides this, at the time of the Mongol invasion, China was essentially two different countries, and greatly weakened because of this. The Northern Song stood no chance against the Mongols and got completely rekt, and then the Southern Song soon followed, considering half of China was already gone.
>>536221 Becoming a tributary just means that the country "accepts" that China is a greater power than them and then they get the benefits of protection and top tier trade. Basically Dai Viet assured its continued existence while maintaining otherwise standard relations with China-relations with Yuan China
>>539556 >This, coupled with the numerous thousands of castles and forts the Europeans had (which even with the siege tactics the Mongols had it would have taken forever for them to capture even a few) would have made Europe near impossible to conquer
i wouldn't wanna be in there when the horde arrives with siege engines (and possibly early gunpowder)
>>540625 >The Northern Song stood no chance against the Mongols The Northern Song was BTFO by the Jurchens. It then moved its capital to the South and continued the war there. The Jurchens then went "we Chinese now" and established the Northern Jin Dynasty.
What followed was a WWI style stalemate fighing between Song and Jin.
>>539556 >Hungary had extremely different terrain than much of Western Europe at the time, much more open and much more susceptible to nomadic style invasions 100% unadultered horseshit. Medieval Hungary =/= modern Hungary. Medieval Hungary also consisted of areas that constitute modern Transylvania and Slovakia which are extremely mountainous.
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