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Celts had the biggest empire in Europe. Better...
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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

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Celts had the biggest empire in Europe. Better than Roma.

Why does it never get talked about? Matter of fact why are celts so lost in history and never talked about when they are the true Europeans and the ones who civilised Europe before Roma? They invented Art.
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>>533531
> celts
>empire
They were a culture... not a united empire
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There was no empire, just a bunch of people conquering shit and establishing small local dominions.
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>>533531
>They invented Art
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>>533531
>Celts
>civilized
>>
WE
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>>533563
Anglo saxon hygiene:
>As with the Elizabethans, the anglo-Saxons didn't really believe in washing their bodies much. In fact, monks were said to have a maximum of five baths a year, and that was considered to be overdoing it. It appears that at least one commentator of the time may have cottoned on to something when he observed that the Danish habit of bathing and combing the hair every Saturday seemed to score the Danish men points with the women.

Celt hygiene:
>Celts probably even washed their hands in the mornings with their tallow soaps and as they bathed. Given how embedded their cultural hygiene practices were, their hand-washing rates may have far exceeded today’s rates in the United States, which fall below 50% for many groups. Ahem, citizens of the United States. Are you going to let the ancient Celts out-do you in hygiene?
>In spite of the soup-straining facial hair, however, the Celts were very much into shaving, which kept away pestilent vermin, and even had nail clippers to keep their fingernail growth in check.
>a Celtic warrior had to bathe before a meal or before battle.
>But for many ancient Celts, hygiene was an important part of their culture. Did you know that they often get credit for having invented soap, or at least for passing it off to the Romans?

More civilised than Romans.

>>533557
Okay they didn't invent it but they were the first Europeans to be doing sophisticated art. Everyone started copying them, see the vikings copying celtic art.

>>533551
Hallstats were most definitely an empire, so were gauls.
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>>533531
Because they were like the Native Americans, a bunch of different tribes with cultural similarities. History is written by the winners.
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Especially when the losers can't write.
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>>533615
>cant write
>had their own language

Whatever
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>>533589
>muh soap
Celts had no civilization until the Romans gave them one.
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>>533531

I don't think you know what an empire is, OP.

I suggest you get a dictionary.
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>>533589
>Hallstats were most definitely an empire, so were gauls.
Can you name a few of their emperors?
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>>533565
WUZ
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>>533633
They had chieftans.

Hochdorf for example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hochdorf_Chieftain's_Grave

If you want to learn more read:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CIDWbb-yOQ0C&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=hallstatt+rulers&source=bl&ots=V1zAV4BiPk&sig=P4j3oqAZPjAH4i0Uvq3JDIj3PJI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQ8fTu4p3KAhWFchQKHSz1B5kQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=rulers&f=false
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>>533627
What does language have to do with writing?
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>>533651
Nice strawman
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>>533640
EMPERORS
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>>533531
>Why does it never get talked about?

They didn't have written language, and their entire history was memorized. They were actually noted for having excellent memory.

>>533544
>>533551

>hurr they were just a culture

Bullshit, I'll wager there was a lot more cohesion than you give them. Especially in the beginning of their rise.

>>533659

you're fucking retarded

You think illiterate people don't know how to talk?
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>>533643
>they had chieftains
So they were tribal chiefdoms?
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>>533670

Not really tribal in the modern sense.
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>>533672
What made them not tribal "in the modern sense"?
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>>533659
>History is written by the winner
>written
>with writing
>as in a script that transcribes thoughts and ideas onto a physical medium
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>>533669

>>533669
>hey didn't have written language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Celtic_language

Again, nice strawman.

They clearly had the ability to write if they had a written language. Show me proof they can't write, mine is they had their own written language.

>>533678
They weren't tribal. They were civilised. Washed everyday with soap, had organised trade, communications, had cities.
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>>533531
>Celtic Empire
Frankish Celts were closer to Germanics than Gaelic Celts.
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>>533670
>>533678
Fight fight fight
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Because it pales in comparison to the empire before it.
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>>533681


So you don't know what "tribal" means too.

Fun fact: The ancient Israelites were civilized. They had organized trade and cities, built a pretty nice temple, wrote a series of books that wound up influencing the world a lot.

Despite this, they were a tribal society.
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>>533681
>The Proto-Celtic language, also called Common Celtic, is the reconstructed ancestor language
>reconstructed

>While Continental Celtic presents much substantiation for its phonology, and some for morphology, recorded material is too scanty [!!!] to allow a secure reconstruction of syntax. Although some complete sentences are recorded in Gaulish and Celtiberian, the oldest substantial Celtic literature is found in Old Irish [6th century AD], the earliest recorded of the Insular Celtic languages.


>They weren't tribal. They were civilised.
You're hopelessly confused about what any of the words you're using mean, aren't you?
Empire, tribal, civilized etc.
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>>533700
>Despite this, they were a tribal society.

Nope, they were nomads.
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>>533678

Built roads, paid taxes, organized trade via central authorities, religion transcended local boundaries, could raise massive armies feudal style.

>>533686

>59745 BC

saved
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>>533731

1) They were not. Semi-nomadic at the very most, but there's also quite a bit of evidence of agriculturalism, which you know, isn't exactly nomadic.

2) The two are not mutually exclusive. A lot of Amerindians were both tribal and nomadic.

"Tribal" refers to a system of social organization you nitwit.
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>>533731
>they were nomads

lol
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>>533700
Tribal structure aside, most of their progress did occur under Solomon's united monarchy or much later in the Judean periods, so basically when they were ruled by something resembling a unitary state rather than tribal confederations.
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Anyone want to keep a tally of words OP doesn't know?

So far I've got:

Empire
Tribal
and
Strawman
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Best empire comin' through!
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>>533684
Th-that isn't a human head shape. Or is it that variable?
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>>533866
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>>533866
>that fucking enclave in north america

kek
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>>533971
That's Alberta, they have literally banned rats.

Rats are not permitted to exist in Alberta.
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>>533669
>I'll wager there was a lot more cohesion than you give them.
Sick argument, m8. Look, all I'm arguing is that they preserved early Indo-European practices of sending younger high-status men out to conquer their own domains. This would put them firmly in line with the other relatively low-admixture early IE peoples, like Germanics, Balts, Slavs, Tocharians, etc.
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>>533531
>WE WUZ EMPRAS N SHIEET
come on now O'Neil
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>>533681
>>hey didn't have written language
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Celtic_language
>Again, nice strawman.
>They clearly had the ability to write if they had a written language. Show me proof they can't write, mine is they had their own written language.

Not him but the article you linked is to the language and says nothing about orthography/ writing.

Having language (i.e., basically all humans) does NOT imply having writing (i.e., only certain civilizations who developed a writing system).

The letters you're looking at on the Wikipedia article are not from a Proto-Celtic writing system. They are using phonetic symbols of mainly the Latin alphabet to represent the sounds of the Proto-Celtic language.

>if we know what the sounds were then that knowledge must come from their actual writings, therefore the Celts had writing

No dawg, look up language reconstruction.

You have not (yet) shown that they had writing or "their own written language."
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Why are some people arguing Celtic speakers were all illiterate? There was epigraphy written both with the Greek and Latin alphabets.
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>>533686
is this real
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>>534828
They're not arguing that all celts were illiterate, they're arguing that the celts didnt have their own written language.

And they're correct, there is no universal celtic written language, though there are local examples of different ones;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictish_stone

Further confusing the issue is that these examples are considered to be non-indo european in origin and so invite debate as to whether they are celtic, or were adapted from the previous inhabitants.
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>>534828
So they borrowed scripts from the two preeminent civilizations of the period, for epigraphs?

That doesn't demonstrate that they had writing. It demonstrates that they were taught how to use the Latin and Greek scripts, by Latins and Greeks.

OP is also assuming all Celts spoke the same language, and that those inscriptions are thus representative of all Celtic peoples and all Celtic languages/dialects.

On top of that, Proto-Celtic (which is what OP linked to) is extremely old in comparison to what would have been spoken in the 700-100 BC range of the OP.

>>534856
This is a good post. Except that both those writing systems are dated to 700-1000 years after OPs 'Celtic Empire', and again demonstrate disparity within the Celtic culture/linguistic group that suggests there was no wider unity among them.
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>>534856
I'm either misreading that argument or find it really weird.

E.g. Pre-Alexandrian Greeks didn't have a common written language either but clearly we aren't disputing the existence of Greek dialects that used closely related versions of the Greek alphabet?

How's that different from the existence of Celtic epigraphy in various areas, written in various alphabets? Only in intensity but not every Greek region was Athens with its high (for the time) literacy, either. Hell even most areas in the ancient Near East cut a bad figure compared to Athenian literacy.
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>>534868
And the Latin alphabet was directly based on the Greek with few changes (even fewer than Phoenician -> Greek) so the Romans didn't have writing?

No, of course Celtic wasn't a single "language" and of course there was no "Celtic unity", let alone a "Celtic empire" (no one took that seriously) but the existence of dialects with common features that were written down isn't in dispute.
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>>534882
The greeks shared a single alphabet. It had minor differences, but they would be similar to comparing British and American english. Different word choices and spellings. Most dialects were intelligible to other speakers.

The difference with Celtic is that for one thing, Celtic scripts and records are much much older than Greek or Latin. Which is important to the topic of this thread, which is an imaginary Celtic Empire and writing system.

Some Celtic tribes did adopt writing, but they didn't develop it independently, and if they did it was very late.

Latin and Greek comparison is retarded, because no Classicist is going to tell you that Latin society was autochthonic or developed their own writing system. Latin culture and writing are heavily influenced by, based upon, and intertwined with their that of their Greek neighbours.

It is perfectly valid to say the Celts and Germanics achieved the status of being civilized, but it was a direct result of Latin/Roman influence. Just like Greek and Etruscan influence led to Latin/Roman civilization.
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>>534919
>he difference with Celtic is that for one thing, Celtic scripts and records are much much older than Greek or Latin.

should read as much younger, sorry.
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I think /his/ in particular doesn't like to hear the truth about the Celts because they so easily demolished Rome, Greece was afraid of them and were the first conquerors. /his/ is a bunch of Romephiles.
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>>535096
Nigga I'm an eastboo and hates the Romaboos on here, but even I can tell you are full of shit.

OP screams of this one Gothic girl that claimed Celts had more rights for women than any part of the pre-modern world.
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>>534856
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictish_stone
Calling Pictish stones Celtic...

Might as well call them Chinese...as they are more closely related to the Chinese than the Celtics.
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ITT: OP tries to convince well read, articulate people of stupid shit precocious 12 year olds come up with and probably wrote his theory on printer paper while taking a shit.
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>>533589
hallstats weren't even a people. do you mean helvetii? definitely not an empire

and gauls were never an empire. different confederations of tribes, sure, but no empire

but yeah continental celts were sw33t
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>picts more related to chinese than celts
wtf books are you reading
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>>533531
t. butthurt paddy
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It's funny how people think, because the Celts used Latin and Greek script that therefore they had none of their own. Alot of Germans speak and write English because it is so widespread. Why would Celts have their own script when they can just use Latin and Greek and it's more universal?
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>>533669
>Bullshit, I'll wager there was a lot more cohesion than you give them. Especially in the beginning of their rise.
I'll take that bet, you historically illiterate halfwit.
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>>535355
right. and the celts didnt have great administration to invent writing systems. the norse futhark runes were based on the latin alphabet too. i don't think it's a great insult to note how they didn't create their own writing system. not many writing systems have been created from scratch throughout history
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>>535380
Runes come from phoenecian.
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>>535414
latin maybe comes from phoenician but the norse runes were based on latin
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>>533844
Add "written language" to the list.
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>>533531
This map is a bit off. The Lusitanians weren't Celts, they were pre-Celtic people who both influenced and were influenced by the local Celtic culture.
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>>535514
source
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>>535514
uuuh according to europa barbarorum a modification of the popular strategy game rome total war they were celts
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>>535550
also the cimbrians may well have been a celtic culture
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>>535542
Indoeuropeos y no Indoeuropeos en la Hispania Prerromana by Francisco Villar

La nueva inscripción lusitana from "Arroyo de la luz III" by Francisco Villar and R. Pedrero
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>>535550
They didn't speak a Celtic language, which is usually the primary standard by which we determine who is and who is not Celtic. Lusitanian was an Indo-European language, usually being identified as pre-Celtic and occasionally as "para-Celtic," but not Celtic.

http://emerita.revistas.csic.es/index.php/emerita/article/view/304/313
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>>535570
welp
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Jesus what the fuck. This is WE WUZ tier
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>>535626
There's gotta be atleast one WE WUZ story that's actually true. Come on. Not saying it's this one necessarily.
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>>533544
>They were a culture... not a united empire

/thread

It was as much an empire as the sub-Saharan African "empires" some anon is trying to shill in another thread.
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WE WUZ ROIS AND MERDE
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