Where did the Afro-Asiatic languages originate? How did it end

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>tribes

>>533495
Yeah it's fucking cringe worthy to call populations of 10+ million with history of kingdoms and empires tribes.

It's like calling Icelandic people tribes.
>>533457
I believe it's from the Neolithic Subpluvial period in the Sahara and spread as a result of the "Saharan Pump" fluctuations.

>>533457
Originated in Africa, obviously.
>How did it end up spanning from ancient Middle Eastern civilizations to tribes in West Africa?
Africans migrated east and in turn took their language with them, would be my best guess.

>>533495
It's a totally legitimate term to describe them.

>>533649
>>533495
>>533530
This is a Afro-Asiatic thread, let's focus on that and not get into negro political structures.

>>533649
They had and continue to have kingdoms, empires and States. Tribes aren't accurate to describe population and political united for most Africans
>>533655
This goes for Oromo, Somali, Hausa, Berber and Beja + many others as well.

Negro using the original definition within the context of obsolete Physical Anthropology terminology isn't all that accurate describing Africa as well.

>>533457
In the near east.

The meme that it originated in ethiopia is a nigger afrocentrist myth.

>>533457
>Where did the Afro-Asiatic languages originate?
From Afrocentric Asians
> How did it end up spanning from ancient Middle Eastern civilizations to tribes in West Africa?
Because they were half man, half amazin'.

>>533457
>How did it end up spanning from ancient Middle Eastern civilizations to tribes in West Africa?
Born in the near east, and expanded from there. Certain tribes in west africa, such as the Hausa, still have creation myths of "white men coming from the north".

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>>533568
I don't think that's plausible and that's not part of any accepted hypotheses.

The original bearers of the language would have been caucasoid, since the vast majority of its modern day speakers are caucasoid (including Somalis and Ethiopians).

>>533702
Comical AND accurate. Kudos.

>>533715
Sorry, wasn't the hausa but the fulani

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>>533717
Caucasoid is an outdated term, based not in science, but archaic cultural ideas about ethnic groups.

The afroasiatic urmheit, like most urmheits, has a location unknown, but with many theories. Pictured is one postulate.

Basic etymology suggests the Urmheit is where the highest distribution of languages is, which suggests somewhere on the continet, right off the sahara if I am correct.

>>533655
>negro

Do you have autism or did you escape from the 50's?

>>533760
>urmheit

The fuck is that? You mean urheimat?

>>533725
>>533715
1.Fulani speak a Niger-Congo language 2. "White" doesn't mean the same thing as it does to us, it's more accurate to translate as Red.

Fun fact, most African groups never described themselves as Black. Usually it was other groups who called them such beyond an individual basis.
>>533697
Actually most agree to an African origin

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>>533773
Did negros stop being negros after the 50s?

>>533457
almost certainly east africa.

Especially when you look at how Egypt formed

>>533774
sorry typo yeah

>>533777
tv pls

>>533776
>1.Fulani speak a Niger-Congo language
Odd. Anyways, doesn't change their northern origins.

>Actually most agree to an African origin
meme

>>533777
Kinda. Like how you don't call Muslims Mohammedans or Spainiards "Don". It's weird.

>>533807
They are overwhelming Niger-Congo/West African genetically, that is their origin.

>>533807
Fulani people are a stable mixed population going back to prehistory. And most linguists agree that AfroAsiatic is from Africa. It's common sense. Look at the linguistic diversity as well as archaic features.

>>533818
Any reason for why you consider the word negro obsolete?

>>533833
Because it is?

I mean, what is this?

>>533760
Nice pic from wiki

>caucasoid is outdated
No it's not.

>>533827
It's hard for people to understand that there are people who looked like "classical" Fulani in North Africa from before the Neolithic Suubpluvial.

>>533760
>Caucasoid is outdated
Then why is it used in forensic science on a daily basis all around the world?

>>533833
Because overall, it is.

Just like soviet or yugoslav.

Just saiyan.

>>533824
>They are overwhelming Niger-Congo/West African genetically
They're not, they have significant eurasian ancestry on the male line.

>>533827
>Fulani people are a stable mixed population going back to prehistory
meme

>And most linguists agree that AfroAsiatic is from Africa.
meme

>It's common sense
It makes absolutely no sense as the vast majority of "afro-asiatic" (I hate that term) languages are spoken in the middle east and north africa. The only significant populations who speak afro asiatic languages in Africa are the obviously very caucasoid ethiopians and somalis.

Anyways, I don't feel like getting into a debate. If you want to believe that we wuz kings n sheeit, be my guest. Heck, we're all african after all, etc.

>>533846
Yet to hear an argument from you. Why is it obsolete to call them "negro" but okay to call them "black", especially considering the two words mean the same?

>>533856
>soviet or yugoslav

Pretty shit analogy. Soviet Union and Yugoslavia stopped existing while negros are still negros.

>>533846
A troll.

>>533854
Please show me forensic use of the term "Caucasoid" to describe Somalis.

>>533857
The majority of their autosomal dna and haplogroups are centered with other Niger-Congo speakers.
>>533857
The literal number of speakers is much less important than the sheer diversity of linguistic families. With that logic the United States is the land with with English spread to Canada and the UK.

The expansion of Arabic is not an argument for a non-African basis for Afro-Asiatic languages.
>>533859
Because the people being called that stated they don't want to be called that decades ago.

>>533879
>they don't want to be called that decades ago
I'm an European but I want to be called Martian, should the rest of mankind respect my desire?

>>533879
>they don't want

Nobody cares.

>>533872
Idk but their blood antigens are more closely related to Arab and Europeans than to other Africans
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-3148.2006.00694_52.x/abstract

>>533857
>They're not, they have significant eurasian ancestry on the male line.
"According to a study by Cruciani et al. (2002), around 90% of Fulani individuals from Burkina Faso carried haplotype 24, which corresponds with the common Sub-Saharan haplogroup E1b1a. The remainder belonged to haplotype 42/haplogroup E-M33. Both of these clades are today most frequent among Niger-Congo-speaking populations, particularly those inhabiting Senegal. Similarly, 53% of the Fulani in northern Cameroon bore haplogroup E-M33, with the rest mainly carrying other Sub-Saharan clades (12% haplogroup A and 6% haplogroup E1b1a). A minority carried the West Eurasian haplogroups T (18%) and R-M173 (12%)."

More importantly, that's just the Y-chromosome. Autosomal DNA shows rather little Eurasian admixture (though more than West Africans, of course.)

>It makes absolutely no sense as the vast majority of "afro-asiatic" (I hate that term) languages are spoken in the middle east and north africa.
That's like saying it makes absolutely no sense for the IE urheimat to be northeast of the Black Sea since the overwhelming majority of speakers are far from that region. Indeed, the only significant populations who speak IE languages there are Slavs. I mean, if you want to believe you're descended from khokhols be my guest.

Thankfully linguists don't care about your gut feelings.

>>533913
If you get a majority of Europeans to call themselves Martians then yeah. That's how the term "European" came to be anyway.

>>533914
>>533913
Its obsolete because the people designated such no longer use it.

That's what obsolete means, no longer produced or used; out of date.
>>533918
That's because over 30k years ago we came back from Arabia and settled.

We are a subset of African diversity, they like all other people diverged from other Africans but we are still Black.

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1004393

>>533913
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japhetites

"In medieval ethnography, the world was believed to have been divided into three large-scale racial groupings, corresponding to the three classical continents: the Japhetic peoples of Europe, the Semitic peoples of Asia and the Hamitic peoples of Africa.

The term has been used in modern times as a designation in physical anthropology, ethnography and comparative linguistics. In anthropology, it was used in a racial sense for "white people" (the Caucasian race). In linguistics it was used as a term for the Indo-European languages. These uses are now mostly obsolete. In a linguistic sense, only the Semitic peoples form a well-defined family. The Indo-European group is no longer known as "Japhetite", and the Hamitic group is now recognized as polyphyletic within the Afro-Asiatic family."
[...]
"Japhetic and Hamitic are both obsolete, apart from occasional dated use of term "Hamito-Semitic" for the Afro-Asiatic languages."

Linguistic evolution in action.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-34479905

How does this connect with the languages?

>>533457
They're most diverse in the horn of Africa. Tens of varieties of Semitic, Cushitic, and Omotic.

>>534547
They found a hunter gatherer and extracted the dna that should they were closest to Ari Blacksmiths which is an ethnocaste of former hunter gatherers

But the study also states this was one of many Ethiopian peoples, they Ethiopics had the recent admixture event but not Ethiosomalis.

Most does not represent Afro-Asiatics but rather shows how even "pure black" Ethiopians are not the same as west African blacks who diverged over 60k years ago.

Most linguists agree to somewhere in East or Northeast Arica, a few think in the Levant. The latter seems more likely to me too for many reasons.

Btw, the diversity of languages spoken in an area is never a good reason to use as a way of pinpointing origins. Otherwise, we'd assume Indo-European came from somewhere in the Balkans-Anatolia area (which has been proposed too but it's a minority position).

>>534808
Sorry, I meant the former.

>>533760
"caucasoid" is based on skull features m8.

>>535230
And phrenology is outdated an obsolete.

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>>535255
The conclusions derived by phrenologists from the races' skull shapes are questionable, but skull shapes haven't changed. It's literally scientific fact that negroids, caucasoids, mongoloids, and australoids have different skull shapes.

>>533857
>significant Eurasian ancestry

So do African Americans.

>>533879
>Because the people being called that stated they don't want to be called that decades ago.
No one "decided" this. It's just fashion. Negro never became offensive, except to racist White democrats who apparently don't know who MLK spoke or how old black folk speak today.

>>535272
Link a scientific article or journal on using skull categorization like this.

>>535230
It's literally the scientific way of white looking head shape. they can just say it has a head shape the looks white so they say Caucasoid because even though the original definition is outdated (the term was made by a guy who was a caucasus-aboo.) people in forensic anthropology it's the easiest way to say "its looks white brah"

>>535644
By the 1940's Black was an insult, Colored was perceived as backwards and people were "Negro". The Black Power movement and youth movements intentionally sought to change the association of Blackness from an insult to a positive.

African American was literally was being pushed by Jesse Jackson since 1989 based off of the black intelligentsia who'd been advocating the term since DuBois.

These terms were literally spearheaded by Black people themselves.

Nice of you to assume black people can't ever have the autonomy to name themselves though, I suggest you go back to the hole you crawled from.
>>535660
PoC is not black specific now.

>>533457
Does Africa have any history besides slavery and shit?

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>>533457
>ancient Middle Eastern civilizations to tribes in West Africa?

R1B V88 are the group who spread Chadic into the Sahel in the Neolithic.

Left image
> Shows the ancient lake that R1B V88 settled around before collpase

Middle image
> Shows the migration of the Pastoral R1B in the Neolithic

Right image
> Show were agriculturalists spread from, from 9000 BC onwards

>>537773

Yes

>>78839200
That's why I said it sets limits, but that specific detail isn't needed>>537815
Agriculture spread but not necessarily the language

>>533773
You're the one with autism

>>537815
Please back your infographic with data

>In particular, M173-bearing chromosomes in Europe are considered to delineate an ancient expansion from Asia during the Upper Paleolithic, ∼30,000 years ago (Semino et al. 2000; Underhill et al. 2001b; Wells et al. 2001). It is quite reasonable to hypothesize that an ancient Asian gene pool was the source of both the European (haplotype 117b) and Cameroonian (haplotype 117) M173 chromosomes. The fact that haplotype 117 is rare or absent in Asia (P.A.U., unpublished data) or the Middle East (present study), suggests that a large portion of its microsatellite diversity in Cameroon accumulated within the African continent after the proposed back-migration event, probably as a consequence of a population expansion. The coalescence age of the African haplotype 117, which we estimated as 4,100 years (95% CI 2,400–8,060 years), could thus represent a date for such an expansion and a lower limit for the time of entry into Africa. The occurrence of the latter event may not necessarily be recent.

>The occurrence of the latter event may not necessarily be recent.

>Although anthropological evidence indicates recent movements between western Asia and Africa by pastoralists (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994), the phylogeography and diversity patterns of M173-associated lineages suggest an earlier demographic history. The absence in northern Cameroon of Y haplotypes affiliated with the recolonization of Europe following the Last Glacial Maximum, as well as the subsequent Neolithic transition (Semino et al. 2000), is consistent with this interpretation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC447595/#__abstractid740446title